has online gaming gone to the dogs?

Are you being served better or worse by online casinos now compared to when you started?

  • More or less the same. I see no significant change.

    Votes: 12 7.0%
  • I'd say better. Maybe you need a vacation.

    Votes: 4 2.3%
  • A bit worse maybe but not a big deal IMO.

    Votes: 30 17.4%
  • Worse, much worse. Maybe we both need vacations.

    Votes: 118 68.6%
  • "Online Casino"?!? I thought this was a pizza delivery service.

    Votes: 8 4.7%

  • Total voters
    172

k6kaysix

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Location
UK
Not just online to be honest, UK pubs and arcades have been steadily going downhill for the past few years too, random digital AWPs flooding the pub market (£100 cap with the like of brutal super ultra high variance games such as Eye Of Horus / Fishin' Frenzy in a pub, how did that get approved!)

Arcades you could accept the £500 cap back in the day when there was some unique content on the terminals, now every new release is just a carbon copy of an online product...with a £500 cap (there is even the Blueprint Dragon Jammin Jars slot as a £500 game now!), in times gone by 94% then 92% but now...90% (an arcade offering the same experience as visiting a motorway service station just without the overpriced KFC to go with it!)

I haven't had a single gamble since September due to the various lockdowns, a few years ago I would be itching to get back to it but these days I don't really care (my bank manager must think I've won the lottery in the last 6 months!)
 

mina1929

Meister Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Location
Universe
I remember the good old days when we had all the casinos to choose from, and all the slots we could play. A lot has changed and for the worse because of country restrictions, game restrictions, terrible and unfair bonuses.

The law in many countries is unfair and don't give us the right to choose and do as we please for the money we work for.

There is really not much more to say as all of you have already pointed out other things as well that I agree with.

There are a few Reps that I still think are awesome and very helpful but not many left unfortunately.
 

shadow123

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
midlands
One thing which is sure to produce a swear word (talking Mecca) is setting up autospins on a game where it is tricky to do
(Tigers can be sometimes), start the spins and a bloody pop up comes on saying you have been playing for xxx mins,are you
sure you want to continue,.. er no, thats why i spent ages setting up the autospins, click continue and autospins are cancelled.
At least the UKGC have made sure that wont be a problem later in the year.
Should be a thread here for stupid pop ups, Mecca do one saying you have been playing for 0 mins and lost £0 which comes up at
random.
 

SuperSeven

Newbie member
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Location
London
A possible problem with non-UKGC licensed casinos accepting UK players, howerever 'decent' they might be. Is that (AFAIK) the game providers are also licensed by the UKGC, and are likely to have geoblocking in place. Because they stand to be fined by the GC if they're knowingly serving games to UK players.
There are obviously some casinos who are currently 'flying under the radar'. But if a 'decent' off-shore casino is set up and starts taking numerous UK players. The game providers might not be willing to risk a fine or even lose their licence in order to provide their games to such a casino.
Even if the casino was to allow the use of a VPN. The providers might withdraw their games
Having recently moved back from Malta to the UK and tried to continue playing here it is an absolute nightmare comparatively and in reality I am limited to casino's where I have had accounts for a long time now - my freedom of choice and also, therefore, the natural leveller of a competitive market place has been removed.

What we have seen with regulation in every market where it has happened is that it becomes less and less about service to the customers and more and more about brand awareness, those Operators that have money and what they call "unaided brand awareness" become more and more pervasive and whilst they get more and more customers, which is driven by the need to appease shareholders, then they believe that they are doing a good job. This is both true and untrue! What it does mean however is that for newer brands entering a regulated market such as the UK is almost impossible - whether you are the best casino ever or not.

There are inherent problems with good offshore operators targeting the UK - not least it being entirely 100% illegal - but actually getting and then keeping contracts with the major game suppliers and payment providers is extremely difficult. More than the game providers, the PSP's see where the money is coming from as do Visa/Mastercard/Skril etc etc etc and will start to hand out extensive fines and then withdraw their products from the operator worldwide. That effectively leaves only the "whitelabel" operators that have gone that route anyway because it is the lowest barrier to entry and therefor eat cheapest, this isn't the type of Operator that will invest heavily in customer service - they are happy to churn and burn, take the money and run.
 

asidea

®Laugh a little each day!.
PABnonaccred
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Location
UK
I thoroughly agree with all the above threads in regards to negative feedback on casinos responses etc..and greed.
I just like to add that:- as a loyal player @PaddyPower, i'm getting much, much less value in return for my money, namely loyalty rewards has gone literally downhill..used to get their regular £5 freebets or loyalty bonus..now its just 10 fs on .10p slot or plain nothing, even bingo loyalty rewards is practically non existent..so just another uk casino down the pits..must say my reasons for quitting this awful mess is almost too obvious.
 

CertaCas

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Location
A spinning globe
Good old days: free cash without wagering at special occasions like birthdays. Chocolate eggs for Easter, basket of assorted presents for Christmas. Free cruises, flight & all expenses included! Gift sets for the wife, 300% bonuses, etc. etc. Actual personal account managers that were fun to talk to.

Now: F. you! Don't dare to win anything in our casino! Send ridiculous SoW or we'll block your account! Who are you again? Oh by the way, we sold your personal details to spam marketing companies.

So yeah, time to quit.
 

Deeplay

New World Order
webmeister
CAG
mm1
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
The biG Eu
Good old days: free cash without wagering at special occasions like birthdays. Chocolate eggs for Easter, basket of assorted presents for Christmas. Free cruises, flight & all expenses included! Gift sets for the wife, 300% bonuses, etc. etc. Actual personal account managers that were fun to talk to.

Now: F. you! Don't dare to win anything in our casino! Send ridiculous SoW or we'll block your account! Who are you again? Oh by the way, we sold your personal details to spam marketing companies.

So yeah, time to quit.


Yeah I remember way back in the day - I was a Vip at Fortune Lounge. They were superb back then. Always giving out comps when you hit a bad run, remember having dinner with 2 of the VIP managers when they were doing some kind of tour of Europe. Plus different packages would arrive at random to my house. Those were in the days where withdraws could take 2 or 3 days - but with FL the VIP always flushed them within minutes of asking.

Sure it cost me ;-) but it was fun. I remember talking when meeting up with the 2 reps about how they felt about big winners and they said for them it was good - but those higher up would sometimes complain but in the end of course so long as they could keep a person playing long enough they got it back with interest.

I played much higher stakes back then and much more than I ever do now. My online gaming is down probably by around 90% - due to me TAB and so on or just not depositing. I like less and less the new games - its all eye candy and usually extreme Variance. Loved the old video poker on the MG download client. The only game where I think in the end I was ever ahead in a life time.

But times change - and the writing has been on the wall for a few years now for the UK. This time next year many names will have dumped the UK Market. It really is not enjoyable anymore and I detest the robotic CS and the way now no one is name. Just a number and next to that number the value in £$€ ....
 

neon claws

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Location
Australia
The problem lately, as I see it from the standpoint of a prolific gambler is the advent of the multi 10kx paytables.
25 dead spins in a row and 0x paying features is now the norm.
Sure you can choose not to play these high volatility slots but we're all gamblers at the end of the day.
 

Mouse75

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
One thing which is sure to produce a swear word (talking Mecca) is setting up autospins on a game where it is tricky to do
(Tigers can be sometimes), start the spins and a bloody pop up comes on saying you have been playing for xxx mins,are you
sure you want to continue,.. er no, thats why i spent ages setting up the autospins, click continue and autospins are cancelled.
At least the UKGC have made sure that wont be a problem later in the year.
Should be a thread here for stupid pop ups, Mecca do one saying you have been playing for 0 mins and lost £0 which comes up at
random.
My fave was a Will Hill one recently... you have been playing for 212345 minutes.... REALLY??? Am i not dead??
Equally impressive was RIZK - after min betting for about 90 minutes, I hit a 216x win (No great shakes - but decent) and got an immediate pop up saying i had PLACED an unusually large bet - was i OK?
Made me panic i had clicked max bet in error (I hadnt)
 

EasterEEL

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Location
UK
Far too many online casino's have been taking the piss out of customers with unresponsive CS or ridiculous bonuses locking in cash or KYC making withdrawal process painful. Couple that with horror stories of punters not get paid upon big wins, having winnings withheld for "bonus abuse" with no recourse to independent arbitration. Then some of the slots are so boring to play in the base game; Megaways for instance. I think Casino's don't understand that even the biggest mug punters will give up if they never get a pay day.

For me the golden period was around 2004-2008 when bonuses that were achievable. Since then it has been a slippery slope. I lost interest as I didn't think there was any chance of hitting a decent win and I clearly was more lucky playing blackjack and roulette in a bricks and mortar Casino with real dealers. So that's all I do now along with sports betting, which I enjoy much more at the leisurely speed one plays at .
 

DeidreB

Experienced Member
PABnononaccred3
PABinit
Joined
Jul 16, 2019
Location
East ST Paul, Manitoba, Canada
I have lost interest in spending my entertainment time, on a customer support chat for the evening. The player is the one who needs to diagnose the technical issues, who gets an overwhelming number of requests in order to satisfy the KYC process, all quite predictable unfortunately. I have yet to ever see a casino provide the resolution to a game issue, whether you inappropriately lost money, or not, concluded to resolution of an outcome. Additionally, the gaming experience does not provide the excitement it once did, I think that another area, such as player tracking has contributed to this.
 

Flyingslotsman

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Location
Scotland
This. I call bullshit as well, no limit city actually stated on this site about providing lower rtp due to customer's asking and not accepting higher rtp slots. As Colin said, bullshit. Try telling btg their slots won't be getting added as you won't provide a lower rtp, see what happens. I smell shite.
Then you have the game providers who drop RTP's. I have seen it said they do this because the casinos say they won't serve their games if they don't. Bullshit. If all providers said no, how will a casino operate without games? I could understand a small provider doing it, but do PlayNGo or NetEnt really believe if they don't offer lower RTP's then any casino would drop them?
 

Mouse75

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
This. I call bullshit as well, no limit city actually stated on this site about providing lower rtp due to customer's asking and not accepting higher rtp slots. As Colin said, bullshit. Try telling btg their slots won't be getting added as you won't provide a lower rtp, see what happens. I smell shite.

Ok... and i agree its bad for players - however i dont think this is the slot providers fault. In any business you give what the customer asks for. In their case - the casinos were asking for a lower RTP maths model - so they provided one. Very difficult for them to take the moral high ground and turn down custom. Given that at some horrendous casinos Play N Go run at 90%..
I can easily see the casino saying no to play n go - not the other way around. Unless i'm mistaken some of the bigger providers - like Yggdrasil and Novamatic ARENT available at every casino - even big reputable accredited casinos.
Sky Vegas does not have Play N Go for that matter.
 

Flyingslotsman

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Location
Scotland
Ok... and i agree its bad for players - however i dont think this is the slot providers fault. In any business you give what the customer asks for. In their case - the casinos were asking for a lower RTP maths model - so they provided one. Very difficult for them to take the moral high ground and turn down custom. Given that at some horrendous casinos Play N Go run at 90%..
I can easily see the casino saying no to play n go - not the other way around. Unless i'm mistaken some of the bigger providers - like Yggdrasil and Novamatic ARENT available at every casino - even big reputable accredited casinos.
Sky Vegas does not have Play N Go for that matter.
Casino: "we want a lower rtp model of that game“

BTG/Relax gaming etc: "Don't have one so tough" OK we'll still take it, it makes us money anyway.

If the industry standard was set (at 96% as an example) then either casinos would obide or not host games, casinos that did host games would be flooded with players. It's the unsuspecting players that don't know I worry for, we're a small community of millions of players who understand the RTP consequences.

I understand it's a business decision at the end of the day, but like I've said if the standard was to change then everyone would have to obide, why can't the ukgc flex it's muscles in this manner rather than the inevitable pitfall of it's upcoming, we'll get auto play removed.
 

Masquerade67

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Location
South
But the casinos *can* change the RTP by stating a maximum win and the games-provider simply re-selecting from the RNG should this eventuality be reached. e.g. from game server to Goonies game client......

<GameSettings minStake=“0.10” maxStake=“500.00” maxWinnings=“250000.00” totalStakeIncrements=“0.10|0.20|0.40|0.60|0.80|1.00|2.00|4.00|5.00|10.00|20.00|50.00|100.00|200.00” defaultStake=“1.00” autoPlay=“1” betHistoryViewer=“0” />

In a non-compensated world, this would decrease the RTP should there be possible winnings above the maxWinnings param ???
 

Mouse75

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
Casino: "we want a lower rtp model of that game“

BTG/Relax gaming etc: "Don't have one so tough" OK we'll still take it, it makes us money anyway.

If the industry standard was set (at 96% as an example) then either casinos would obide or not host games, casinos that did host games would be flooded with players. It's the unsuspecting players that don't know I worry for, we're a small community of millions of players who understand the RTP consequences.

I understand it's a business decision at the end of the day, but like I've said if the standard was to change then everyone would have to obide, why can't the ukgc flex it's muscles in this manner rather than the inevitable pitfall of it's upcoming, we'll get auto play removed.

Maybe it not all the casinos though - do we know how slot providers are paid? Do they get a cut of the profit - in which case lower RTP's across the board ar GOOD for them??

Maybe our ire should be at the providers as much as the casinos.
 

SuperSeven

Newbie member
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Location
London
I have lost interest in spending my entertainment time, on a customer support chat for the evening. The player is the one who needs to diagnose the technical issues, who gets an overwhelming number of requests in order to satisfy the KYC process, all quite predictable unfortunately. I have yet to ever see a casino provide the resolution to a game issue, whether you inappropriately lost money, or not, concluded to resolution of an outcome. Additionally, the gaming experience does not provide the excitement it once did, I think that another area, such as player tracking has contributed to this.
I think that your first sentence here has that the nail on the head and the challenge for online gaming providers.

The biggest challenge for Operators in the next 5 years is not each other as it used to be, but the battle or a slice of peoples entertainment time. It is this highly valuable element that has become more and more limited for people as opposed to a share of wallet. Regulation has not helped the operator by putting more and more overheads on them that mean that 99.5% of players who are totally innocent have to jump through hoops which makes it far less appealing way of spending their entertainment time. Far easier to sign up and watch Netflix, or add a HBO subscription or even - pay for Sky sports each month if that is your bag!
 

SuperSeven

Newbie member
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Location
London
Maybe it not all the casinos though - do we know how slot providers are paid? Do they get a cut of the profit - in which case lower RTP's across the board ar GOOD for them??

Maybe our ire should be at the providers as much as the casinos.
Yeah, they get a share of the Gross Gaming Revenue, but the flip side of that is that if players don't like the lower RTP's then the operator won't retain players and therefore don't grow and hence the overall GGR doesn't grow as fast s it could do and therefore they don't do themselves any favours in the long run...
 

Balky

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Location
Croatia
I started to gamble online about 15 years ago. In all those years I never had any bigger issue with any casino, mostly because of playing as a lowroller in accredited casinos only, and mainly sticking to accredited sites.

But what does online gambling look like today? Drastically lowered RTP, various country restrictions, SOW requests, tech issues, lagging problems, bonus and cashback offers going down the drain, deposit methods constantly changing etc, favorite slot games being taken out of the offer, just to name a few of the desastrous changes.

Sadly the „good ole days“ are obviously gone for good, and thats why I more and more often prefer to play settlers of Catan or Scrabble instead of a slot session.

Cheers

Balky
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Well this has been an interesting one, to say the least. Almost 90% of poll respondents said that things have either gotten worse or much worse since they started. That certainly reflects the general feeling I get from the people that come to us via our Complaints (PAB) Service. Doesn't say good things about the industry though does it?

Anyway, thanks to all for participating. I'm going to un-pin this but feel free to post and/or update here as you see fit.
 

philderby1

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
derby
I closed the only remaining two uk sites I played at permanently a few weeks ago. All this sow rubbish makes me scared to deposit. Started a new hobby in January and its a hell of a lot cheaper than gambling. honestly I dont miss it when I read about all the crap with videoslots and other places giving players the run around
 

philderby1

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
derby
I started to gamble online about 15 years ago. In all those years I never had any bigger issue with any casino, mostly because of playing as a lowroller in accredited casinos only, and mainly sticking to accredited sites.

But what does online gambling look like today? Drastically lowered RTP, various country restrictions, SOW requests, tech issues, lagging problems, bonus and cashback offers going down the drain, deposit methods constantly changing etc, favorite slot games being taken out of the offer, just to name a few of the desastrous changes.

Sadly the „good ole days“ are obviously gone for good, and thats why I more and more often prefer to play settlers of Catan or Scrabble instead of a slot session.

Cheers

Balky
Im actually enjoying not playing any more. No more hangovers wondering whats left of my dole money for the month, The new hobby I've got costs me between £45 - £60 a month and that lasts a whole month. £40 playing slots would last me 15 minutes if I was lucky!
 
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