Ask me anything (about slots)!

[danlightbulb]

...

Thanks so much for your detailed reply. It is interesting, and I must say also pleasing, to hear that there are no front end modes that these games go into and out of. Because randomness certainly feels like its not random alot of the time.

I am also pleased to hear that when you are within a bonus round, each spin is still independantly picking from the RNG randomly rather than the whole bonus round being predetermined. Again, they certainly don't feel that way. For example on the slot I mentioned, Invisible Man by Netent, if the bonus round gets off to a bad start it normally stays bad. Ive had only a few quid from a bonus round on that slot whereas other times over £100 (£1 spin size). That kind of variance inside a bonus round is quite frustrating, as its hard enough to get them in the first place. When you enter a bonus round such as this one, is it possible that the game could randomly select a reel configuration that it uses within the bonus round. I.e it could have several sets of reel configs that have more or less wilds on them, and it randomly selects one at the start of the bonus round?

Are you able to explain how a game's programming might interpret an RNG value, perhaps an outline of the series of steps it would go through?

I know that the RNG will first and foremost give the reel positions. However what element of the RNG would be used, for example, to decide on whether a non reel-based feature kicks in, or a floating wild lands, for example?

How many digits is an RNG number in a modern slot? Is each digit of the generated number used for a different purpose - eg digit 1 - reel 1 position, digit 6 - floating wild on reel 1 etc etc. I know this must be incredibly complex, but an overview of the process flow would be really interesting.

How fast does an RNG cycle through? I.e 50 Hz? Higher?

Does the programming interpret RNG values sequentially? For simple example, if RNG=31250 was a win, would RNG=31251 also likely be a win? And would there be a 'group' of sequential RNG values that weren't wins, or are the wins distributed evenly throughout the potential range of RNG values?


Oh yeah - as a slightly OT point - I did see you and some other posters talking about Twin Spin earlier in the thread. I used to play this slot loads for the initial 'trying to hit a big win' phase of casino bonuses. Then when they introduced TS2 and revamped the original, I definitely felt like the configuration had changed. I played it that much before and after the refresh, and I am convinced that something has changed. I know you discredited this earlier, but I just wanted to put it across that Ive experienced this 'different feel' first hand. It certainly is now much harder to get the bigger 'screen full' wins that I played this slot for originally. What they changed, I don't know (reel config?) but I'm 100% that something has.

Thanks
Dan

 

[mack341]

Then when they introduced TS2 and revamped the original

Do you mean the html update of twinspin when you say TS2 or do you mean the twin spin deluxe cluster game they released a while back which was meant to be a sequel to twinspin but was totally different?

I had a question for Trance on the RNG, apparently the rng in the server is producing thousands/millions ??? of random number results per second, so when you press your spin button how does one of the results get chosen for your game, out of the many available for that split second in time?

 

[danlightbulb]

Do you mean the html update of twinspin when you say TS2 or do you mean the twin spin deluxe cluster game they released a while back which was meant to be a sequel to twinspin but was totally different?

The original Twin Spin was updated a couple of months after they released Twin Spin Deluxe. I exclusively played Twin Spin for the initial tranche of casino bonus wagering, for months on end from 2017 and into 2018 - I was playing it almost every day on every offer I did - and getting a relatively consistent big win rate on it. I felt like it had changed one day, continued playing it as I had been and knew something was off. Its behaviour had changed, the types of wins/patterns it was dropping in had changed, and I was no longer getting through any casino bonuses when using it. So a couple weeks after I googled it and found that other people were having a similar experience. So whilst I don't know what changed, something in the mechanics did definitely change at the same time as the HTML update.

 

[trancemonkey]

Thanks so much for your detailed reply. It is interesting, and I must say also pleasing, to hear that there are no front end modes that these games go into and out of. Because randomness certainly feels like its not random alot of the time.

I am also pleased to hear that when you are within a bonus round, each spin is still independantly picking from the RNG randomly rather than the whole bonus round being predetermined. Again, they certainly don't feel that way. For example on the slot I mentioned, Invisible Man by Netent, if the bonus round gets off to a bad start it normally stays bad. Ive had only a few quid from a bonus round on that slot whereas other times over £100 (£1 spin size). That kind of variance inside a bonus round is quite frustrating, as its hard enough to get them in the first place. When you enter a bonus round such as this one, is it possible that the game could randomly select a reel configuration that it uses within the bonus round. I.e it could have several sets of reel configs that have more or less wilds on them, and it randomly selects one at the start of the bonus round?

Are you able to explain how a game's programming might interpret an RNG value, perhaps an outline of the series of steps it would go through?

I know that the RNG will first and foremost give the reel positions. However what element of the RNG would be used, for example, to decide on whether a non reel-based feature kicks in, or a floating wild lands, for example?

How many digits is an RNG number in a modern slot? Is each digit of the generated number used for a different purpose - eg digit 1 - reel 1 position, digit 6 - floating wild on reel 1 etc etc. I know this must be incredibly complex, but an overview of the process flow would be really interesting.

How fast does an RNG cycle through? I.e 50 Hz? Higher?

Does the programming interpret RNG values sequentially? For simple example, if RNG=31250 was a win, would RNG=31251 also likely be a win? And would there be a 'group' of sequential RNG values that weren't wins, or are the wins distributed evenly throughout the potential range of RNG values?


Oh yeah - as a slightly OT point - I did see you and some other posters talking about Twin Spin earlier in the thread. I used to play this slot loads for the initial 'trying to hit a big win' phase of casino bonuses. Then when they introduced TS2 and revamped the original, I definitely felt like the configuration had changed. I played it that much before and after the refresh, and I am convinced that something has changed. I know you discredited this earlier, but I just wanted to put it across that Ive experienced this 'different feel' first hand. It certainly is now much harder to get the bigger 'screen full' wins that I played this slot for originally. What they changed, I don't know (reel config?) but I'm 100% that something has.

Thanks
Dan

Some pretty deep and serious questions there... I'm just off to bed but I'll do my best to answer tomorrow

 

[trancemonkey]

Do you mean the html update of twinspin when you say TS2 or do you mean the twin spin deluxe cluster game they released a while back which was meant to be a sequel to twinspin but was totally different?

I had a question for Trance on the RNG, apparently the rng in the server is producing thousands/millions ??? of random number results per second, so when you press your spin button how does one of the results get chosen for your game, out of the many available for that split second in time?

The RNG is continuously cycled ... imagine

Do you mean the html update of twinspin when you say TS2 or do you mean the twin spin deluxe cluster game they released a while back which was meant to be a sequel to twinspin but was totally different?

I had a question for Trance on the RNG, apparently the rng in the server is producing thousands/millions ??? of random number results per second, so when you press your spin button how does one of the results get chosen for your game, out of the many available for that split second in time?

This is quite simple:

Your request for a random number hits the PRNG, and you get the next number it spits out.

Imagine you have some code that, in it's simplest form, is this:

playerRequest checkRNGrequest(void)
{
getRandomNumber(); //this requests a random number from the RNG, but won't use it - it just keeps the RNG ticking over

if( rngRequest.IsWaiting() )
{
rngRequest.RandomNumber = getRandomNumber();
}

return rngRequest;
}

This function would be called every single cycle of the code to check whether the player has pressed start. You can see here the getRandomNumber is called anyway, whether there is a request or not. If there IS a request, then getRandomNumber is called again. This number is then the one used for the game determination.

Please understand, this is just an example...

 

[Smithyy]

Hey @trancemonkey I've got a question.

In Blueprint's Spinal Tap, when you get the feature, you get two spins on the wheel. Now, almost always the first spin of the wheel is crap - and you get a much better feature from the second spin. In fact the help files even say that for the best RTP you should decline the first offer from the wheel.

Isn't this a bit shady? Like, players shouldn't really be expected to read all of the rules should they? Just curious what you think about it, as it seems a tad unfair to me, especially for players who just play a slot once, give it 100 spins, and of course would never read the help files.

 

[trancemonkey]

Hey @trancemonkey I've got a question.

In Blueprint's Spinal Tap, when you get the feature, you get two spins on the wheel. Now, almost always the first spin of the wheel is crap - and you get a much better feature from the second spin. In fact the help files even say that for the best RTP you should decline the first offer from the wheel.

Isn't this a bit shady? Like, players shouldn't really be expected to read all of the rules should they? Just curious what you think about it, as it seems a tad unfair to me, especially for players who just play a slot once, give it 100 spins, and of course would never read the help files.

Games where a player choice affects the RTP must display this in the help pages. And must explain what the best strategy is...

To be honest I have no idea why they put two spins on Spinal Tap as you are right... the first spin is obviously worse most of the time.

 

[trancemonkey]

Thanks so much for your detailed reply. It is interesting, and I must say also pleasing, to hear that there are no front end modes that these games go into and out of. Because randomness certainly feels like its not random alot of the time.

I am also pleased to hear that when you are within a bonus round, each spin is still independantly picking from the RNG randomly rather than the whole bonus round being predetermined. Again, they certainly don't feel that way. For example on the slot I mentioned, Invisible Man by Netent, if the bonus round gets off to a bad start it normally stays bad. Ive had only a few quid from a bonus round on that slot whereas other times over £100 (£1 spin size). That kind of variance inside a bonus round is quite frustrating, as its hard enough to get them in the first place. When you enter a bonus round such as this one, is it possible that the game could randomly select a reel configuration that it uses within the bonus round. I.e it could have several sets of reel configs that have more or less wilds on them, and it randomly selects one at the start of the bonus round?

Are you able to explain how a game's programming might interpret an RNG value, perhaps an outline of the series of steps it would go through?

I know that the RNG will first and foremost give the reel positions. However what element of the RNG would be used, for example, to decide on whether a non reel-based feature kicks in, or a floating wild lands, for example?

How many digits is an RNG number in a modern slot? Is each digit of the generated number used for a different purpose - eg digit 1 - reel 1 position, digit 6 - floating wild on reel 1 etc etc. I know this must be incredibly complex, but an overview of the process flow would be really interesting.

How fast does an RNG cycle through? I.e 50 Hz? Higher?

Does the programming interpret RNG values sequentially? For simple example, if RNG=31250 was a win, would RNG=31251 also likely be a win? And would there be a 'group' of sequential RNG values that weren't wins, or are the wins distributed evenly throughout the potential range of RNG values?


Oh yeah - as a slightly OT point - I did see you and some other posters talking about Twin Spin earlier in the thread. I used to play this slot loads for the initial 'trying to hit a big win' phase of casino bonuses. Then when they introduced TS2 and revamped the original, I definitely felt like the configuration had changed. I played it that much before and after the refresh, and I am convinced that something has changed. I know you discredited this earlier, but I just wanted to put it across that Ive experienced this 'different feel' first hand. It certainly is now much harder to get the bigger 'screen full' wins that I played this slot for originally. What they changed, I don't know (reel config?) but I'm 100% that something has.

Thanks
Dan

There are multiple ways of an game using RNGs. I seem to recall that some jurisdictions allowed only one random number per game to be used, so you were limited to the amount of things you could do as an RNG can only be so big... depending on the limitations of the hardware.

I've never been involved in low level RNG code, I've only ever used it in a high level way where I just did calls for a random number for each decision that required one. For example:

void DecideReelSpin(void)
{
for( int i = 0; i < numReels; i++)
{
reelPos = getRandomNumber(0, reelLength - 1);
}
}

reelLength Is the length of the reel, and getRandomNumber returns a value between the two numbers inclusive.

If you had any secondary features, like a pick feature or free spins, you would do the call to the RNG when you needed the number.

 

[curremon]

1. Why every time you reverse withdrawal rtp drops to under 50% no matter what you play
2. Why when playing bonus and you reach point where wagering should be completed easily, you cant win anything and bonusfeatures totally disappear from games ?

 

[trancemonkey]

1. Why every time you reverse withdrawal rtp drops to under 50% no matter what you play
2. Why when playing bonus and you reach point where wagering should be completed easily, you cant win anything and bonusfeatures totally disappear from games ?

1. It doesn't.
2. That's not true.

Both of those fall under the Gamblers Phallacy (look it up on Wiki) and Cognitive Bias. I'm sure there are people who have reversed withdrawals and had success as well as those that haven't.

Both of the things you are suggesting are illegal and pointless. Every time you press spin, the casino makes money. It's simple economics.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Hi @trancemonkey

Following on from Zonalkman's post, there was a mention of help pages which is completely new to me and have not seen mentioned in any top tips or guides, though I've only seen a few, is there any thing else a noob to online slots like me should be doing that might not be mentioned in a standard top tips for beginners?

 

[dionysus]

might not be mentioned in a standard top tips for beginners?

Read Ts and Cs
Never spend more than you can afford to lose
Remember that gambling should be entertainment and not a source of income
Recall spins are random and independent of the one previous
Stopping reels gobbles your cash at a faster rate and has 0 affect on the outcome
And pour a coffee and read the AMA

 

[bamberfishcake]

Read Ts and Cs
Never spend more than you can afford to lose
Remember that gambling should be entertainment and not a source of income
Recall spins are random and independent of the one previous
Stopping reels gobbles your cash at a faster rate and has 0 affect on the outcome
And pour a coffee and read the AMA

Love that! Especially the bit about stopping reels - it feels so good when it works though! thanks! but what's the AMA?

 

[dionysus]

but what's the AMA?

this thread - Ask Me Anything
Youll probably find alot of questions you have have already been addressed

 

[trancemonkey]

this thread - Ask Me Anything
Youll probably find alot of questions you have have already been addressed

Love that! Especially the bit about stopping reels - it feels so good when it works though! thanks! but what's the AMA?

And if you can't be arsed to read all 90 odd pages of it, feel free to ask in here or PM me

 

[dionysus]

And if you can't be arsed to read all 90 odd pages of it, feel free to ask in here or PM me

which brigs me to -
besides having the most common Qs typed and saved, or referenced with a # for your own sanity, I was thinking, maybe you should begin a thread: Most commonly asked questions answered.

 

[nikantw]

Hi......... is there any thing else a noob to online slots like me should be doing that might not be mentioned in a standard top tips for beginners?

If you went through this

https://www.casinomeister.com/play-responsibly/

there is also my "quick" guide

Slots: What you should know before you play

 

[Zes123]

Hi TranceMonkey,
Could you please explain te dynamics of the payout structure of Microgaming's Jackpot 8000? Superficially, it looks similar to Net Ent's Jackpot 6000, but their explanation of the pot, payouts dependent on previous spins etc. obviously suggests this is NOT a standard slot, where every spin of every player is random and independent, and it is a somewhat compensated game - looks like the more a player wins the less the pot will be and vice versa, he is basically creating his own future payouts (minus the 3.5% house edge) by building his own pot by losing his money in previous rounds... Does it also mean a player cannot realistically win the 8000 jackpot until he loses enough for that jackpot to build (which should be A LOT to lose)? Their explanation is vague, could you please clear things up?

 

[trancemonkey]

It's a game with a "Super Meter" where you play off your winnings on a secondary game. The secondary game might run at 100%, as you can collect your winnings at any time or carry on playing if you have enough money. I've done games like this... It's all pretty simple standard stuff. The description is a bit naff but the pot is just your win bank (If it's the game I'm thinking of anyway!)

 

[nikantw]

Hi,

I have another question about a respin slot. The new one, Book of Oz.
You said that if the player's decision can affect the RTP then the best strategy has to be stated.
This one says RTP 96.31% (Respin 96.5%).



If you know the Respin feature, you get (for a price) to respin any reel you want, but only one at a time.
The cost of the Respin changes depending on the position of the reels and the possible wins.
And here is the thing: The possible wins sometimes are 0, yet that respin does have a cost and because of that 0% RTP!!

Every Respin actually has a different RTP, if you try for a 3 of a kind win you may find the RTP is between 80% and 90% (I did some tests).

So the truth about the Respin feature would be: Respin RTP 0%-96.5%
Shouldn't that be stated? Isn't misleading (even illegal) to only state the higher without explaining what respin position can achieve it?

 

[4048]

Speaking of RTP, what are your thoughts on, and what might their reasoning be, for stuff like this?

Taken from Excalibur's choice, the latest and "freshest" book of ra copy around

 

[JGslots]

B2/B3 Games
Hi mate, is it permitted for a B2/B3 game to have a 100% feed into a cashpot? I have noticed a project game that has popped up in my local arcade with the advertising on top saying play up to £100 roulette spins with the pre stake gamble.

In essence, you put £2 in and it goes into a Cashpot, there’s no other wins, you need to get CASHPOT on the 7 reels, a letter being on each.

I put £60 in it before getting the Cashpot, which you can collect or use it to play roulette.

How is that a pre-stake gamble and isn’t that pushing it a bit? lol.

Rob

 

[VismundCygnus]

Speaking of RTP, what are your thoughts on, and what might their reasoning be, for stuff like this?
View attachment 103493
Taken from Excalibur's choice, the latest and "freshest" book of ra copy around

I'm not the mighty monkey but my guess is they had some business performance unit estimate how much the game needs to make to be a worthwhile investment and some BS calculations on actives down the line, they ended up with that asstastic price discrimination.

 

[Bloatgoat]

You guys know that RTP varies according to your bet size? They are just illustrating a "up to 96.xxx%" RTP. Every slot has it's paytables and RTP based on bet.

 

[dealer wins]

I want to know on Immortal Romance and similar slots, if your choice of bonus makes a small or huge difference, or is it completely random with each bonus being pre generated, and it plays out which ever one you select? They cant be set to pay the same amount, thats imposible as ive had a return so small on a feature that if I had selected Amber instead it would be impossible to pay out the same amount.