Ask me anything (about slots)!

[Jono777]

I would think that was illegal... You can't advertise a prize you can't win unless it specifically states in the games rules that it is not available. And there should be a contribution to the pot as the "free spins" are not really free as they are paid for out of the casino marketing budget and therefore should cost the casino the amount of spins * stake shown

IIRC, the way they "got around this" / explained it was that a player could play their ND FS and then continue to play real money stakes with the monies won from these free spins, thus then albeit remote having a genuine chance at the JP.

 

[BlaCGaming]

I would think that was illegal... You can't advertise a prize you can't win unless it specifically states in the games rules that it is not available. And there should be a contribution to the pot as the "free spins" are not really free as they are paid for out of the casino marketing budget and therefore should cost the casino the amount of spins * stake shown

Besides the legality, that would mean they are able to tamper with RNG results in a way that removes the top payout from being won. They can just switch it on or off. This is the bigger deal in my opinion

 

[trancemonkey]

Besides the legality, that would mean they are able to tamper with RNG results in a way that removes the top payout from being won. They can just switch it on or off. This is the bigger deal in my opinion

If it explains it in the rules it would be likely be acceptable. If not it's illegal.

 

[BlaCGaming]

If it explains it in the rules it would be likely be acceptable. If not it's illegal.

Thats all there is, about the jackpot:




so we would need some rep or even Netent to confirm whether or not the Jackpot can be won within free spins.

 

[trancemonkey]

Thats all there is, about the jackpot:

View attachment 77539


so we would need some rep or even Netent to confirm whether or not the Jackpot can be won within free spins.

To me that means it can be won... And I'd argue that in court if I had to

 

[BlaCGaming]

To me that means it can be won... And I'd argue that in court if I had to

But how exactly do you fight "Not winning", when there is no way to know if you CAN actually win it?

 

[trancemonkey]

But how exactly do you fight "Not winning", when there is no way to know if you CAN actually win it?

Because if it was in a court of law they would have to prove whether it could or could not be won... And if not, why that has not been made clear

 

[BosjeR]

Because if it was in a court of law they would have to prove whether it could or could not be won... And if not, why that has not been made clear

I'd guess that free spins fall under the responsibilities of operators, and that they are liable to explain the T&C of their commercial activities. FS are not standard offered by NetEnt (directly) and then don't fall under the game rules. Makes some sense as you need to draw the line somewhere, and impossible to cater for all T&Cs of an operator's promotions in your gamerules.

 

[trancemonkey]

I'd guess that free spins fall under the responsibilities of operators, and that they are liable to explain the T&C of their commercial activities. FS are not standard offered by NetEnt (directly) and then don't fall under the game rules. Makes some sense as you need to draw the line somewhere, and impossible to cater for all T&Cs of an operator's promotions in your gamerules.

Which means Netent can't nerf the game in free spins...

 

[brianmon]

I'd guess that free spins fall under the responsibilities of operators, and that they are liable to explain the T&C of their commercial activities. FS are not standard offered by NetEnt (directly) and then don't fall under the game rules. Makes some sense as you need to draw the line somewhere, and impossible to cater for all T&Cs of an operator's promotions in your gamerules.

Free spins would still have to go through the Netent 'system' though.

The game knows it's in free spin mode.

firstly, it displays a window showing the number of free spins on offer, on opening the game
It also shows the number of remaining spins on the game it's self.
the game loads up set at the correct spin value, rather than the default value
it then allows the spins to happen, with a zero balance
The winnings are kept as a separate total, until all the spins have been used.
A message is displayed that the free spins are finished
the game switches back out of free spin mode
then that total is added to the existing balance, and the stakes are reset to default.

and I seem to remember that the older flash versions, even reloaded the whole game.

So the game does know it's in free spin mode.

The free spins might be requested by the casino. But they're credited by the Netent servers.

For all we know it may not be 'exactly' the same game, and would it matter (legally) when they're giving something away for free?

 

[andym]

I'll check this on DOA later and do my own test then....

Hi trancemonkey,

were you able to do your own testing here?

Thanks

 

[andym]

I'll check this on DOA later and do my own test then....

Hi trancemonkey,

were you able to do your own testing here?

Thanks

 

[trancemonkey]

Hi trancemonkey,

were you able to do your own testing here?

Thanks

I didn't mate... Sorry

 

[geordiecolin]

What reasoning is behind a casino stating that all of a providers slots such as Netent contribute only 50% towards play through when so many of their games are just as valid for to be included in a bonus play through as many from other providers at 100%?

 

[lockinlove]

I would that trancemonkey comment this...

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Yes, we all know that GOT is so cruel that many decided not to play it. My biggest bust came (300 to zero) happened in this very game (1200 spins).
Since then, I playing it in "small doses" and always on 0.60 bet. I noticed that it is usually in good mood after full screen of cats in Pretty Kitty slot (quite weird).

For some irational reason (too thick balance???) I tried very long session (over 2000 spins) last night and ended almost the same (from 600 balance to 250). I am sure that I would bust in next 700-1000 spins. I got 5 bonuses (so every 400 spins!) Stark payed 54x and that is best win in the session. Only "big win"
in base game was 41x quite early (around first hundred) and later I got 15-20x every 120 spins. I do have to mention that I was on quick spin, but I doubt it would be any different on spin/stop or normal spin. i am writing this in the morning, because tonight I was inrage stage.

I guess you will say that I was very unlucky, but I do think that this kind of variance is for jail. I mean, how many thousands of spins is required to get back to starting balance?

oh god thats some terrible terrible stats right there.

I conquered this slot with my 1300x win and have never returned to it and probably wont cause I know how brutal it is.

 

[trancemonkey]

What reasoning is behind a casino stating that all of a providers slots such as Netent contribute only 50% towards play through when so many of their games are just as valid for to be included in a bonus play through as many from other providers at 100%?

To be honest I've never seen this... The only reason games normally don't contribute to pay through its when they run at a really high RTP... Hence Blackjack rarely if ever does this. Also really volatile games can sometimes be removed from wagering requirements

 

[geordiecolin]

To be honest I've never seen this... The only reason games normally don't contribute to pay through its when they run at a really high RTP... Hence Blackjack rarely if ever does this. Also really volatile games can sometimes be removed from wagering requirements

My jaw hit the floor when I learnt that the likes of Starburst where lumped into the same kind of volatility of Dead or Alive,Blazing Sevens or Red White and Blue.
Rather than scour through the menu to find games that where not restricted I asked their CS to quote the games that contributed 100% and I was given 9 games. Surprisingly one of those 9 games was Wild North.
I hope my cash out request is not as highly volatile

 

[trancemonkey]

My jaw hit the floor when I learnt that the likes of Starburst where lumped into the same kind of volatility of Dead or Alive,Blazing Sevens or Red White and Blue.
Rather than scour through the menu to find games that where not restricted I asked their CS to quote the games that contributed 100% and I was given 9 games. Surprisingly one of those 9 games was Wild North.
I hope my cash out request is not as highly volatile

I wouldn't be playing at that casino... Simples

 

[geordiecolin]

I wouldn't be playing at that casino... Simples

Yes,but to be fair this casino have a number of sister sites that are reputable,if not accredited. I also feel obliged to try out new sites as a minion as well as to take a break from my usual haunts.Plus I have a pretty tasty withdrawal pending from my first deposit
Edit. The casino is Luckybets Casino which is part of the Neo group ( Karamba,Bet365 )

 

[interlog]

I noticed in one of your other posts elsewhere that you play slots online too.

Are you allowed to play slots that you designed yourself? I know that owners of casinos are not allowed to play at their own casino, so does the same apply to you?

 

[BrianGhattas]

I like playing with bonuses as long as the wager requirement isn't too steep. However, casinos seem to be reluctant to give them to you or flat out refuse to do so. Seeing that the chances of NOT converting is a high possibility, why are they unwilling to give them out and do these 100% or 200% bonuses cost the casino any money to issue?

 

[Captain Rizk]

I like playing with bonuses as long as the wager requirement isn't too steep. However, casinos seem to be reluctant to give them to you or flat out refuse to do so. Seeing that the chances of NOT converting is a high possibility, why are they unwilling to give them out and do these 100% or 200% bonuses cost the casino any money to issue?

I can maybe answer this one better than Trancemonkey. Simple answer is yes, they absolutely cost money. Even if only a small percentage of players convert the bonus, the amount they win far outweighs the amount deposited.

I saw a few comments about this earlier so this is obviously why some other casinos exclude higher volatility games or alternatively reduce the wagering contribution for these games so that they are less attractive to play with a bonus.

Same can happen with games like starburst can also be excluded as some people believe that this can be used to "grind" out wagering requirements more easily.

 

[Dinahnana]

I can maybe answer this one better than Trancemonkey. Simple answer is yes, they absolutely cost money. Even if only a small percentage of players convert the bonus, the amount they win far outweighs the amount deposited.

I saw a few comments about this earlier so this is obviously why some other casinos exclude higher volatility games or alternatively reduce the wagering contribution for these games so that they are less attractive to play with a bonus.

Same can happen with games like starburst can also be excluded as some people believe that this can be used to "grind" out wagering requirements more easily.

I totally understand what you are saying Captain but the casinos that reduce/exclude games like Starburst still offer them as free spins so I guess it's a double edged sword. If casinos don't want players to take bonuses then they should not offer them period. That way there is no confusion. Just my 2cents

 

[interlog]

I totally understand what you are saying Captain but the casinos that reduce/exclude games like Starburst still offer them as free spins so I guess it's a double edged sword. If casinos don't want players to take bonuses then they should not offer them period. That way there is no confusion. Just my 2cents

But that is just it. They want you to take a bonus else perhaps the money you are going to spend is going to be spend elsewhere. It is such a competitive market out there that they have to do something to either gain new players or retain them. They reduce the risk of a cash out by inserting the conditions you have mentioned.

There are casinos out there that don't offer bonuses but reward players by other means.

 

[trancemonkey]

I can maybe answer this one better than Trancemonkey. Simple answer is yes, they absolutely cost money. Even if only a small percentage of players convert the bonus, the amount they win far outweighs the amount deposited.

I saw a few comments about this earlier so this is obviously why some other casinos exclude higher volatility games or alternatively reduce the wagering contribution for these games so that they are less attractive to play with a bonus.

Same can happen with games like starburst can also be excluded as some people believe that this can be used to "grind" out wagering requirements more easily.

You can... And you did Thanks mate!

 

[Captain Rizk]

But that is just it. They want you to take a bonus else perhaps the money you are going to spend is going to be spend elsewhere. It is such a competitive market out there that they have to do something to either gain new players or retain them. They reduce the risk of a cash out by inserting the conditions you have mentioned.

There are casinos out there that don't offer bonuses but reward players by other means.

Alternatively you can, as we do and as Trance monkey has explained for the last 73 pages, understand that all spins are Random, completely independent of each other, the player, their location and current dress code.

The RTP comes true in the end and so it doesnt matter whether the games are volatile or not but you can offset short term loss by retaining players for the longer term.

Simples

 

[Dinahnana]

Alternatively you can, as we do and as Trance monkey has explained for the last 73 pages, understand that all spins are Random, completely independent of each other, the player, their location and current dress code.

The RTP comes true in the end and so it doesnt matter whether the games are volatile or not but you can offset short term loss by retaining players for the longer term.

Simples

Agreed simples except when you are losing I don't think that there is anything nefarious at play at casinos. They just tag so many conditions onto bonuses that they render them useless. I usually don't have a large bankroll so I do use bonuses to boost them and if I manage a decent cashout then I deposit at other casinos without a bonus. I can't tell the difference between playing with no bonus or a bonus with regards to slot play. When you are losing it doesn't matter same as when you are winning. The ONLY difference is that sometimes when playing on a bonus you end up with a much larger ending balance trying to clear WR as you would with a straight deposit. That has been my experience anyways.

So to recap when you are winning you win and losing you lose regardless to whether you have a bonus or not I just don't like the silly rules that some bonuses have in play. I would much rather some slots be zero wagering contributors than having them void the bonus altogether.

 

[Van7Diesel]

Hello! I try to play without bonuses.I think it's easier. I introduce dengue in the game are willing to lose. I think that the way my luck anymore.

 

[trancemonkey]

Hello! I try to play without bonuses.I think it's easier. I introduce dengue in the game are willing to lose. I think that the way my luck anymore.

I admit I rarely ever take bonuses unless I just want a long play session with no chance of winning...

 

[chris87]

I admit I rarely ever take bonuses unless I just want a long play session with no chance of winning...

Good point. However, I do usually take a bonus if one's offered and whilst on occasions have had some good cash outs, many more times have bust out from healthy balances whilst trying to clear the wagering. Some casinos do give you the opportunity to ditch the bonus balance and withdraw your cash balance as long as you haven't touched the bonus money (e.g. Royal Panda) which I like, though must admit I have fallen foul of this by not cutting and running when I should have!

Chris

 

[trancemonkey]

Good point. However, I do usually take a bonus if one's offered and whilst on occasions have had some good cash outs, many more times have bust out from healthy balances whilst trying to clear the wagering. Some casinos do give you the opportunity to ditch the bonus balance and withdraw your cash balance as long as you haven't touched the bonus money (e.g. Royal Panda) which I like, though must admit I have fallen foul of this by not cutting and running when I should have!

Chris

I could be remembering this wrong but I'm sure JackpotParty (when it was fully WMS before it became SlotsMagic) used to allow you to cash out part of your bonus money dependent on how much of your WR you had done... Which I loved! So if you won 1000 and and completed 50% of your WR you could withdraw 500 and forfeit 500. Brilliant idea...

Captain Rizk... Take note

 

[chris87]

I could be remembering this wrong but I'm sure JackpotParty (when it was fully WMS before it became SlotsMagic) used to allow you to cash out part of your bonus money dependent on how much of your WR you had done... Which I loved! So if you won 1000 and and completed 50% of your WR you could withdraw 500 and forfeit 500. Brilliant idea...

Captain Rizk... Take note

Casumo are similar, you can cash out a % of your total balance early, the amount depends upon how much wagering you've done. With Leo Vegas you can also cash out and forfeit the bonus money as long as you haven't touched it.

Chris

 

[brianmon]

Casumo are similar, you can cash out a % of your total balance early, the amount depends upon how much wagering you've done. With Leo Vegas you can also cash out and forfeit the bonus money as long as you haven't touched it.

Chris

At Casumo, it's not the amount of wagering you've completed, but the original bonus percentage, which determines how much you can withdraw, before completing the wagering.
With their 200% bonus you can withdraw 1/3 of your balance at any time, 100% = 1/2, 50% = 2/3 etc...

 

[trancemonkey]

Casumo are similar, you can cash out a % of your total balance early, the amount depends upon how much wagering you've done. With Leo Vegas you can also cash out and forfeit the bonus money as long as you haven't touched it.

Chris

At Casumo, it's not the amount of wagering you've completed, but the original bonus percentage, which determines how much you can withdraw, before completing the wagering.
With their 200% bonus you can withdraw 1/3 of your balance at any time, 100% = 1/2, 50% = 2/3 etc...

In a world where there is a lot of choice for what casino to play at... I wish more casinos did things like this. I appreciate that there are a lot of players too Ignorant to care where they play... Hence Rogue casinos exist in droves.. But the reputable ones should look at places like Casumo and learn a hell of a lot.

I'd love to eventually work for a casino doing in house games and meta-features as I'm sure that's where the future is...

 

[BosjeR]

I'd love to eventually work for a casino doing in house games and meta-features as I'm sure that's where the future is...

Hint, hint, nudge, wink

See you in Malta soon!

 

[Spikie]

Not sure if any one casino could shine even with bonus enhancements, there is not much difference between most well known companies nowadays.

The only way casinos can stand out is with both quick payouts and different games to everyone else. Otherwise how can you differentiate between them all ?

 

[geordiecolin]

Are there a lot of modifications made to slots for mobile use and if so how are any modifications which effect the RTP compensated?

 

[colinsunderland]

In a similar vein, and this has possibly been asked and answered but the threads too long now to check, but when a game is converted to HTML5 does it have to go through all the initial licensing checks again (as a new game would), as some (for example DOA) play completely differently?

 

[trancemonkey]

Are there a lot of modifications made to slots for mobile use and if so how are any modifications which effect the RTP compensated?

I'm yet to come across a provider that changes maths for mobile vs desktop... and you'll notice a lot of sites now have the same version on desktop as mobile

 

[trancemonkey]

In a similar vein, and this has possibly been asked and answered but the threads too long now to check, but when a game is converted to HTML5 does it have to go through all the initial licensing checks again (as a new game would), as some (for example DOA) play completely differently?

Homologation (from the verb homologate, meaning "to approve or confirm officially") is the process of certifying or approving a product to indicate that it meets regulatory standards and specifications, such as safety and technical requirements. This happens for every game released in any meaningful jurisdiction. If a game is changed, then the level of homologation depends on the level of change. For example, when you submit a game to GLI or NMI for testing, they normally give you a list of "critical files" - these are nearly always to do with the maths / game logic, which are the bits of the code which are to do with the way the game plays, an achieves it's RTP. If any of these critical files change, then the whole maths would have to be retested. If not, then a code diff would be done on the critical files just to make sure, and then the rest of the game tested as necessary.

Therefore, changing the maths when you convert from Flash to HTML5 would mean that the testing became longer and more expensive - and unless the name is new, or performing really badly, there would be almost no commercial reason to do it.... hence i doubt (and NetEnt have also confirmed) that they changed any of the maths.

That said, the algorithm on DoA that displays symbols that don't land in view is blatantly different on HTML5 DoA vs Flash, so God knows what they did on that but it definitely is wrong & badly implemented.

 

[brianmon]

Homologation (from the verb homologate, meaning "to approve or confirm officially") is the process of certifying or approving a product to indicate that it meets regulatory standards and specifications, such as safety and technical requirements. This happens for every game released in any meaningful jurisdiction. If a game is changed, then the level of homologation depends on the level of change. For example, when you submit a game to GLI or NMI for testing, they normally give you a list of "critical files" - these are nearly always to do with the maths / game logic, which are the bits of the code which are to do with the way the game plays, an achieves it's RTP. If any of these critical files change, then the whole maths would have to be retested. If not, then a code diff would be done on the critical files just to make sure, and then the rest of the game tested as necessary.

Therefore, changing the maths when you convert from Flash to HTML5 would mean that the testing became longer and more expensive - and unless the name is new, or performing really badly, there would be almost no commercial reason to do it.... hence i doubt (and NetEnt have also confirmed) that they changed any of the maths.

That said, the algorithm on DoA that displays symbols that don't land in view is blatantly different on HTML5 DoA vs Flash, so God knows what they did on that but it definitely is wrong & badly implemented.

Wouldn't also depend on whether any projected extra income in the future, would outweighing the cost of re-testing?
And also the decrease in income from many casinos removing DOA altogether (who have since re-added it after the conversion)

 

[trancemonkey]

Wouldn't also depend on whether any projected extra income in the future, would outweighing the cost of re-testing?
And also the decrease in income from many casinos removing DOA altogether (who have since re-added it after the conversion)

That would be a factor yes...

 

[gambyx7]

When casino where you play often has connection issues (users overload), I have a feeling that all slots simply stop paying...maybe this is just a feeling because spins are not running smooth and interruptions are so frequent...I guess then it would be wise to stop playing...

 

[trancemonkey]

When casino where you play often has connection issues (users overload), I have a feeling that all slots simply stop paying...maybe this is just a feeling because spins are not running smooth and interruptions are so frequent...I guess then it would be wise to stop playing...

The number of users might affect the speed of the results but it doesn't affect the result.

 

[Van7Diesel]

I admit I rarely ever take bonuses unless I just want a long play session with no chance of winning...

Hi.I play without bonuses, there are a lot of reasons.First, I of the many online casino just can't withdraw winnings, if took the bonus.Once got the bonus and won, starting a strange problem with money withdrawal.That's why I play in a strange casino the first time without bonuses always.Also, I travel a lot for work, so play from different countries.This is also related the problem of withdrawal of money. And casino Royal Panda, I never cashed out my win((((((. I wrote that this issue is related to master card but I have visa and still win I have not received!

 

[Van7Diesel]

I believe in the slots.I often win, but I have a problem with money withdrawal from the online casino.Of course there is a system, has its own mathematics.Slots is a mathematical construction of random numbers.It is clear. But of fife the casino , I was able to withdraw money from only one.So I was looking for a site where I can see the casino, and to know that the casino is reliable. And not to throw the casino's money to thieves.And I'm glad you found Casinomeisters.
I'm impressed with how great you think the bonuses! And I have a simple problem! How to withdraw 100 euros.However I decided that lost had lost lose them all in a poker or roulette!Though the experience gain!And I'll make sure to watch the rating of the casinos!Now is really a lot of online casinos! And I Need to be able to choose real!

 

[gambyx7]

Could restart of the session improve/aggravate slot payout?

Lets say, I have terrible 300-400 spins on some average mid-variance slot...would restart (new session) help me...?

Also, is it true that some my big win makes that slot cold for other players?

Maybe it is all obvious, but still I would like to hear the answers.

 

[Van7Diesel]

Also, is it true that some my big win makes that slot cold for other players?

I Never thought about it!But I think you're right!Because sometimes you come into the slot, and can't win anything.Full zero!Maybe a more experienced player will answer for sure!!

 

[trancemonkey]

Could restart of the session improve/aggravate slot payout?

Lets say, I have terrible 300-400 spins on some average mid-variance slot...would restart (new session) help me...?

Also, is it true that some my big win makes that slot cold for other players?

Maybe it is all obvious, but still I would like to hear the answers.

I've touched on this many times in this thread but given how long it now is, it's easy to miss...

But no.. Slots have no memory of previous wins or losses... They can't - it's illegally and pointless... Slots have a fixed RTP so casinos don't need to cheat... The just need to get as many people to play as possible and to bet as much as possible... The rake (how much they keep) is a mathematical value. Variance / volatility can affect the rake from one day or week or even month to another but the more people that play the game the closer it gets to its RTP.

So your big win, your restart, the colour of your pants or your lucky cactus won't make any difference...

 

[trancemonkey]

I Never thought about it!But I think you're right!Because sometimes you come into the slot, and can't win anything.Full zero!Maybe a more experienced player will answer for sure!!

He's not right