All TopGames Casinos are Down! DDos Attacks!!

[LHofsdal]

November 25th

On November 25th Noah started this thread at LatestCasinoBonuses:

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I am not to sure why this was posted, he has posted stuff from other forums as well. Bryan was right, this should never been posted on a public forum until the end, and they could disclose the end results. Now Noah can't comment because the lawyers advise against it. This is truely an ugly mess, and I am pretty sure it is only going to get uglier.

The part that I don't get why is he bringing up stuff that happened 2 years ago now? Why wasn't that brought up 2 years ago? Rome Partners claim they did not have a choice 2 years ago but to give in to the extortion and pay WinPalace, but really they did have a choice, but didn't make the right one. They could have gone to the authorities then.

So why now, is all this coming to light? Is it to get back at someone they are quite positive is behind this new set of attacks and try to get back at WinPalace and hope people stop depositing there? Did Noah go there to LatestCasinoBonuses on the 25th because Bryan did the right thing here and told him it would be better to stop posting and removed something Noah posted on the 24th?

I will be quite frank here, all this really leaves me sick to my stomach!!! Going from forum to forum and posting this knowing that someone who is quite respected, and knowledgeable in the industry specifically asked you to stop posting, because it was in YOUR BEST INTEREST, makes me believe Noah can be just as "shady" (for lack of a better term) as the morons behind the DDoS attacks.

Just my random thoughts on the situation.

LH

 

[Brooklyn]

Diane I don't think anyone is attacking you, I just think that you do push the fact that Diamond VIP is a great casino a little too much imo. That's my personal opinion and FWIW it's up to you where you play. However, I don't think that this casino should be recommended to other players for any reason; this thread being only one of the many reasons players should be wary of Top Game casinos as a whole.

Where you play your money is your business, that you are completely right about but it does come across that you recommend this casino to others very often and if something should happen to them at that casino there is not a lot CM can do as the whole TG list is basically rogued with a few exceptions, or on the no can do list.

Other newer players not aware of all the other problems Top Game are facing may see your posts about Diamond VIP, sign up, deposit and have a bad experience and then what, what if it's something that can't be fixed by an email to your VIP host? I am glad you are having a heck of a time over there and more power to you....to each their own I guess .

 

[Diane]

Diane I don't think anyone is attacking you, I just think that you do push the fact that Diamond VIP is a great casino a little too much imo. That's my personal opinion and FWIW it's up to you where you play. However, I don't think that this casino should be recommended to other players for any reason; this thread being only one of the many reasons players should be wary of Top Game casinos as a whole.

Where you play your money is your business, that you are completely right about but it does come across that you recommend this casino to others very often and if something should happen to them at that casino there is not a lot CM can do as the whole TG list is basically rogued with a few exceptions, or on the no can do list.

Other newer players not aware of all the other problems Top Game are facing may see your posts about Diamond VIP, sign up, deposit and have a bad experience and then what, what if it's something that can't be fixed by an email to your VIP host? I am glad you are having a heck of a time over there and more power to you....to each their own I guess .

Perhaps I do post too much. I hear you and do respect your statements. But do you really think my solo voice singing gets others to try it? Not my intent. I get no benefit, nor do I want any.

Will scale it back. TY

Diane

 

[Brooklyn]

Not that you post too much and I am not policing the boards by any means. All that I said was strictly a personal opinion and not an attack. Love your posts and your contributions to the forum .

 

[rainmaker]

Diane, my friend and respected member here

I think it is completely OK for members here to recommend casinos not listed on the accredited list. There are many great casinos out there who are not accredited. For example Centrebet, Betsafe and CasinoEuro.

But I think you should expect to get some reactions when recommending a casino like Diamond VIP. Not only because of possible ownership issues with rogue casinos, but Casinomeister has already issued an official warning regarding Diamond VIP. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Topgame as a casino supplier is already in the rogue pit.

I have read T&C for Diamond VIP and we are talking about possible spirit of the bonus practice, strange withdrawal and bonus restrictions and other things. I mean, this is quite taboo here at Casinomeister.

 

[Diane]

Not that you post too much and I am not policing the boards by any means. All that I said was strictly a personal opinion and not an attack. Love your posts and your contributions to the forum .

Thanks, but I understand what you meant. Tone it down on Diamond, roger that.

I am glad you like my posts. I enjoy the forum and sharing opinions; common and diverse.

Diane

 

[bb28]

You are right, it is you and your money and your opinion. With that said, this is me, not spending my money at those places and it's my opinion.

We are each free to speak our mind here.

The one thing that keeps bugging me about your posts regarding this group, is that you keep saying you are unaware. That really doesn't hold water, you are aware since you are reading this thread and making comments.


Still with that said, I do respect your opinion and your right to do as you wish but yet you shouldn't feel slighted if someone says something about it with so much evidence of dirty deeds, just as long as they don't sling mud at you personally and I didn't.


ADDED later, rainmaker said a lot of what I tried to say but much better. He also made the point I'm trying to make and that is, you can't expect someone not to say something about you playing there since you are so vocal about it and an advocate for them.

Hey..............hold on a minute, since I assume you are referring to ME and my money --

I am totally unaware of any ownership positions at ANY of the sites that I play at. I don't know who owns Club World Group, JPC, Lucky Club etc......ownership has never mattered to me. Maybe it should, but its not on my list of questions when I decide to play at a site. I check the site out here on CM, do an internet search, check with some of my online gaming friends, and then decide if I want to give it a try or not.

My money = My risk

Being treated well by a site - "cuts it" just fine to me.

* Prompt reliable payments on withdrawals is #1, (check)
* Fun games (check)
* Quick response time to emails (check)
* Strong support staff (check)
* Personalized VIP attention (check)
* Gifts on special occasions (check)
* Lucrative weekly tournaments (check)
* Generous bonus programs (check)
* Fully cashable bonuses (check)

I know fully well I am about the only one on this site that likes Diamond VIP. I get it. I'm a big girl and eyes wide open.

Maybe my personal love affair with Diamond VIP right now will go sour in the future and I will sing a different tune, no one knows. I like it now just fine and have liked it since I started playing there March of this year. If it goes sour, I was warned. (repeatedly by members here -- I hear you, but I have chosen to continue playing my money at their site)

Slots Oasis treated me well, then they ran into payment issues. I just started going back to Slots Oasis...slowly and cautiously. I like SlotO'Cash a lot and they changed, I liked EH Group they went out of business, I like the MG slots I could play in past, those are gone too. Same with using Paypal for online poker several years ago at sites like Party Poker, Highlands Poker, UB, Planet Poker, Full Tilt, QT, and EWX......all gone.

Everything changes sooner or later. Maybe I will become unhappy with Diamond VIP at some point. It has happened with other favorite sites. But if it happens, I promise I won't come here and whine.

I would however, post an informational piece -- because that's what I do here, share my experiences. That's why I like CM, we share ideas, experiences, and information.

FWIW,
Diane

 

[Diane]

You are right, it is you and your money and your opinion. With that said, this is me, not spending my money at those places and it's my opinion.

We are each free to speak our mind here.

The one thing that keeps bugging me about your posts regarding this group, is that you keep saying you are unaware. That really doesn't hold water, you are aware since you are reading this thread and making comments.


Still with that said, I do respect your opinion and your right to do as you wish but yet you shouldn't feel slighted if someone says something about it with so much evidence of dirty deeds, just as long as they don't sling mud at you personally and I didn't.


ADDED later, rainmaker said a lot of what I tried to say but much better. He also made the point I'm trying to make and that is, you can't expect someone not to say something about you playing there since you are so vocal about it and an advocate for them.

Understood. But to be clear, my advocacy is purely as one player voice. I have no relationship with them other than as an individual customer.

No shilling or shrilling.......

Diane

 

[bb28]

Understood. But to be clear, my advocacy is purely as one player voice. I have no relationship with them other than as an individual customer.

No shilling or shrilling.......

LOW blow there...........LOL


Diane

I didn't think you had a relationship with them other than player.

 

[Diane]

Diane, my friend and respected member here

I think it is completely OK for members here to recommend casinos not listed on the accredited list. There are many great casinos out there who are not accredited. For example Centrebet, Betsafe and CasinoEuro.

But I think you should expect to get some reactions when recommending a casino like Diamond VIP. Not only because of possible ownership issues with rogue casinos, but Casinomeister has already issued an official warning regarding Diamond VIP. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Topgame as a casino supplier is already in the rogue pit.

I have read T&C for Diamond VIP and we are talking about possible spirit of the bonus practice, strange withdrawal and bonus restrictions and other things. I mean, this is quite taboo here at Casinomeister.

We remain friends - that hasn't changed and thank you for the respect comment. It means a great deal to me. I value my status here and membership as a privilege. I don't want discussions about a single site to be the#1 thing people think of when they see one of my posts. I want it to be for my overall contributions and information shared.

I guess we just see how this all plays out and I will keep (or at least try very hard)to keep my personal bias out of it.

Thanks,
Diane

 

[Diane]

I didn't think you had a relationship with them other than player.

LOL..........the "shrilling" teasing may last longer than my reputation for advocacy......

Glad you got a smile/laugh out of it. So did I!

Diane

 

[bb28]

LOL..........the "shrilling" teasing may last longer than my reputation for advocacy......

Glad you got a smile/laugh out of it. So did I!

Diane

It wouldn't be the 1st time I've been given a hard time around here over a blonde moment. lol

 

[RomeCasino]

From Noah

Hey guys,

Once again feeling like the ugly girl at the prom, nonetheless I would like to make a few points, if that is ok, and you can make your own minds after that, you are all straight shooters. I will be so as well.

1. The Morriyen thing - Look you know what the US banking law and how it prevents US friendly casinos from operating in direct contact with US banks and processing. You know that when you play your banks are not supposed to be processing with these casinos, any of them. Yet you do expect us to be able to do so. For that to happen we cannot have a company called 'rome casino', banking laws require that we have a company name on the website that deals with the banks. It is for this reason that Morriyen was created. It has zero staff, its just a name to process through. That other RTG casino utilizes our ability to process coded transactions, these are legal transactions. We are not responsible for their risk or withdrawal decisions or management in any way and this deal started before they had such a reputation.

I know that 'Morriyen' sounds very ominous, (maybe as a reminder of 'Moriarty' the Sherlock Holmes villain). It used to say 'owner' because we weren't sure exactly what was required by the US banks in this regard. And yes it was changed now because clearly the wrong impression has been given and we didn't want that. So by trying to fix this wrong impression, I guess we made things worse ha?

We were, and are, more than happy to prove to VWM and Bryan with documentation that Morriyen is just that. VWM wasn't interested in seeing evidence and Bryan just published what we sent him. Shame we are not given a chance to prove it, why bash when you can actually find out? Isn't that preferable?

2. The debate against affactive - You know it is easy dismissing everything as rogue, yet imagine you have a company and it is attacked 3 times. You ARE suing but you know it will take years and may come to no results, since DDOS attacks are built to hide the true attacker. In fact, the attacker is so confident that he laughs at you directly saying he can knock your site off whenever he wants. Would you let everyone continue working with them without letting them know what kind of outfit this is, and trust that in a few years you may have spent enough time in court to get some kind of justice? Until then they continue to enjoy a pristine reputation and make money off players and affiliates alike. Yes it went too far and I apologized for this, but to put us in the same boat is wrong, there is a big, nay, HUGE difference between attacking another site and complaining about it publicly. In the end we hung a few posts in GPWA and maybe one or two elsewhere. That was the extent of it.

3."Topgame as a casino supplier is already in the rogue pit" - It is my understanding that what put TG in the rogue pit happened over 2.5 years ago, that they are in the blunders section because of their support staff, something they haven't had for years now, and that TG has been in contact with Bryan to remove them from this area, and it is being examined.I will let the TG rep respond to such things though if he so chooses, not my area.

I won't ask for your belief, since I know there is none at the moment. I hope that VWM or Bryan will let us prove it to them and so to you as well, since I trust that you trust them.

Kind Regards,

Noah

 

[Nifty29]

Hey guys,

Once again feeling like the ugly girl at the prom, nonetheless I would like to make a few points, if that is ok, and you can make your own minds after that, you are all straight shooters. I will be so as well.

1. The Morriyen thing - Look you know what the US banking law and how it prevents US friendly casinos from operating in direct contact with US banks and processing. You know that when you play your banks are not supposed to be processing with these casinos, any of them. Yet you do expect us to be able to do so. For that to happen we cannot have a company called 'rome casino', banking laws require that we have a company name on the website that deals with the banks. It is for this reason that Morriyen was created. It has zero staff, its just a name to process through. That other RTG casino utilizes our ability to process coded transactions, these are legal transactions. We are not responsible for their risk or withdrawal decisions or management in any way and this deal started before they had such a reputation.

I know that 'Morriyen' sounds very ominous, (maybe as a reminder of 'Moriarty' the Sherlock Holmes villain). It used to say 'owner' because we weren't sure exactly what was required by the US banks in this regard. And yes it was changed now because clearly the wrong impression has been given and we didn't want that. So by trying to fix this wrong impression, I guess we made things worse ha?

We were, and are, more than happy to prove to VWM and Bryan with documentation that Morriyen is just that. VWM wasn't interested in seeing evidence and Bryan just published what we sent him. Shame we are not given a chance to prove it, why bash when you can actually find out? Isn't that preferable?

2. The debate against affactive - You know it is easy dismissing everything as rogue, yet imagine you have a company and it is attacked 3 times. You ARE suing but you know it will take years and may come to no results, since DDOS attacks are built to hide the true attacker. In fact, the attacker is so confident that he laughs at you directly saying he can knock your site off whenever he wants. Would you let everyone continue working with them without letting them know what kind of outfit this is, and trust that in a few years you may have spent enough time in court to get some kind of justice? Until then they continue to enjoy a pristine reputation and make money off players and affiliates alike. Yes it went too far and I apologized for this, but to put us in the same boat is wrong, there is a big, nay, HUGE difference between attacking another site and complaining about it publicly. In the end we hung a few posts in GPWA and maybe one or two elsewhere. That was the extent of it.

3."Topgame as a casino supplier is already in the rogue pit" - It is my understanding that what put TG in the rogue pit happened over 2.5 years ago, that they are in the blunders section because of their support staff, something they haven't had for years now, and that TG has been in contact with Bryan to remove them from this area, and it is being examined.I will let the TG rep respond to such things though if he so chooses, not my area.

I won't ask for your belief, since I know there is none at the moment. I hope that VWM or Bryan will let us prove it to them and so to you as well, since I trust that you trust them.

Kind Regards,

Noah

VWM is a member just like everyone else who expresses his opinion on the information presented in the forums and his own research. I personally don't think that anyone other than Bryan and his staff should be provided with this kind of information, as whilst VWM has been around many years and played a lot of places, he hasn't seen things from both sides like Bryan has.....and i mean that with no disrespect whatsoever.

You're playing this all the wrong way IMO, and posts like yours just now shows me that you haven't learned anything from the GPWA sandpit-fight you immersed yourselves in. You should be keeping "they did we did they said we said" out of the forums and providing all the information to Bryan and answer all his questions, and allow him to use his vast experience to sort the wheat from the chaff and give the members a real assessment of the situation.

A professional outfit would NEVER get into this kind of stuff in public, and THAT is why everyone should be avoiding yours and affactives casinos. What actually happened originally has almost been overshadowed by the back and forth nonsense that followed it.

Neither side can claim ANY high ground here.

 

[takethemoney]

Rogue soldiers fighting in the night. I love it!

Anyone who would deposit at any of these outfits has a leak in their brain. This thread has proven that these operations must certainly be run by kindergarten kids from their parents computers while mum and papa sleep. WTF!

 

[LHofsdal]

Very well said Nifty, and you are so right.

@Noah-can you answer as to why you made the posts at LatestCasinoBonuses, after Bryan pointed out to you that it should not be discussed in a public forum? Can you answer the question as to why your posts have brought up something that is over 2 years old, and is just coming to light now? I can understand the point to show that that this guy "Gabi" has done it before, but it seems odd that now it has come out because of this DDos attack. It would have been much better if you wrote something like "This type of extortion by "Gabi" is not the first time we have dealt with this, and now we aim to take a stand". Something like that. But you going to the other forum (and posting 3 seperate posts) makes you look just as bad as "Gabi", IMO. I have to wonder if you went there and posted all that stuff that happened 2 years ago is because Bryan would not let you post it here at CM. It seems to me that you are hellbent on getting that information out to the public.

If I were in "your shoes" so to speak, I would heed to the advice given to me, and stop posting. Come back and post when the whole ordeal is over with the results. No matter how long it takes.

LH

 

[RomeCasino]

From Noah

Hi all and Nifty,

I'm glad we are debating this. My intention was not to debate the GPWA thread again just the morriyen thing, but you know how threads have a life of their own sometimes....

Please understand that its not easy for us with posting, because if we don't then people ask why don't you, when we do we mostly look like we're being defensive or trying to cover up something. All I want to do is explain to you as someone talking to other people.

Nifty I did in fact go to Bryan first and he was the one who recommended showing the evidence to VWM. We invited both of them to see it, so far neither has taken us up on it.

Last time on this issue, I swear - I understand that what happened on GPWA was unprofessional, and yes we posted in a few places because we wanted to draw attention to this, we didn't want it to go unnoticed or covered up. Look you always picture casinos as these big faceless sites, but we have a great staff here with families to support and we are very close due to working a lot together. This is a big staff, a lot of families. We do night shifts because a casino never sleeps, we work from home. This place is important to us and our families depend on it. So no, it wasn't professional, it was an emotional response. I know this is business and all but it is made up of the men and women running it, and when you go around in panic trying to save your place of work a few times it becomes a bit personal, especially if taunted. Its easy to think of this as something only tech guys deal with but this kept a lot of people away from home for a long while, working very hard. It wasn't professional, and I'm sorry it went as bad as it did, but our reaction was a human one, whatever you think of it. We took it to heart.

Yes we brought up stuff from 2 years ago. You do it too every time you mention TG being in the blunders section, because what happened to justify it happened 2.5 years ago. We mentioned it because it sets a pattern and to explain why we are being so emotional about this.

I will heed your advice from now and stop posting. I don't want it to be said that we're trying to cover up something. But I would like the benefit of the doubt, ye be reasonable men and women, until Bryan or VWM agrees to look at the evidence and post their opinion. I would ask that you think of what it costs to see your place of work of many daily and nightly hours attacked without warning a few times over, I ask only those things. At your advice, I will not post again on this unless asked a question.

Kind Regards,

Noah

 

[P.V.]

Nifty I did in fact go to Bryan first and he was the one who recommended showing the evidence to VWM. We invited both of them to see it, so far neither has taken us up on it.

I'd be happy to give an opinion if VW doesn't want to review the information.

Although, if you don't agree with the outcome, no legal action can be taken against myself, my companies, or whomever.

You seem vigor in your defense, so I'm your uninterested party.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi all and Nifty,

I'm glad we are debating this. My intention was not to debate the GPWA thread again just the morriyen thing, but you know how threads have a life of their own sometimes....

Please understand that its not easy for us with posting, because if we don't then people ask why don't you, when we do we mostly look like we're being defensive or trying to cover up something. All I want to do is explain to you as someone talking to other people.

Nifty I did in fact go to Bryan first and he was the one who recommended showing the evidence to VWM. We invited both of them to see it, so far neither has taken us up on it.

Last time on this issue, I swear - I understand that what happened on GPWA was unprofessional, and yes we posted in a few places because we wanted to draw attention to this, we didn't want it to go unnoticed or covered up. Look you always picture casinos as these big faceless sites, but we have a great staff here with families to support and we are very close due to working a lot together. This is a big staff, a lot of families. We do night shifts because a casino never sleeps, we work from home. This place is important to us and our families depend on it. So no, it wasn't professional, it was an emotional response. I know this is business and all but it is made up of the men and women running it, and when you go around in panic trying to save your place of work a few times it becomes a bit personal, especially if taunted. Its easy to think of this as something only tech guys deal with but this kept a lot of people away from home for a long while, working very hard. It wasn't professional, and I'm sorry it went as bad as it did, but our reaction was a human one, whatever you think of it. We took it to heart.

Yes we brought up stuff from 2 years ago. You do it too every time you mention TG being in the blunders section, because what happened to justify it happened 2.5 years ago. We mentioned it because it sets a pattern and to explain why we are being so emotional about this.

I will heed your advice from now and stop posting. I don't want it to be said that we're trying to cover up something. But I would like the benefit of the doubt, ye be reasonable men and women, until Bryan or VWM agrees to look at the evidence and post their opinion. I would ask that you think of what it costs to see your place of work of many daily and nightly hours attacked without warning a few times over, I ask only those things. At your advice, I will not post again on this unless asked a question.

Kind Regards,

Noah

I see, and I then passed the problem back to Bryan, as like Nifty, I believed he was better placed to make sense of it, having seen things from both sides.

Now, the other point is that it is "normal practice" for the "owner" on a website to be the processing company. In general it is not, BUT maybe for US facing casinos in particular it IS. It seems odd that the one thing the DoJ are looking for above all else, the processor, is the one thing in plain view as the "owner" on a casino website.

The idea is to give the banks a company name that does not tie in with casinos. Well, provided all bank staff have never heard of Google, fine

When I entered "Morriyen Investments" into Google, I got over a million hits. However, adding "-casino" brought it right down to 86! Just HOW this structure is going to fool the banks and DoJ baffles me, as surely the first thing bank staff would do if they suspected a transaction to be UIGEA prohibited is run a search on the incoming or outgoing processor. If they did this for "Morriyen Investments", it would be obvious it was a gambling transaction. Perhaps this is WHY so many bank wires fail to get through, leading to a string of complaints from US players.

Morriyen Investments' own website is hard to find, still "under construction", and gives the banks nothing to verify if they need to see what the company does as part of the verification process. Whilst the website itself says nothing about casinos, but rather that they are an "investment fund" investing in "media", the connection between "media" and online gambling is obvious because everywhere online casinos are discussed, reviewed, and rated, Morriyen Investments are listed as owning a stable of Top Game casinos, the type of "media" the fund invests in.

Had they listed the owners as "Synergy", but used "Morriyen Investments" on any processing information that gets seen by the banks, there would be no connection to casinos found on a web search, and deposits would simply look like private investors paying into their favoured investment fund, and any payouts would look like dividends and encashments. This may have been the intent, but if this has been enough to fool the DoJ and US banks, it is THEY who have sourced their staff from Kindergarten.

1. The Morriyen thing - Look you know what the US banking law and how it prevents US friendly casinos from operating in direct contact with US banks and processing. You know that when you play your banks are not supposed to be processing with these casinos, any of them. Yet you do expect us to be able to do so. For that to happen we cannot have a company called 'rome casino', banking laws require that we have a company name on the website that deals with the banks. It is for this reason that Morriyen was created. It has zero staff, its just a name to process through. That other RTG casino utilizes our ability to process coded transactions, these are legal transactions. We are not responsible for their risk or withdrawal decisions or management in any way and this deal started before they had such a reputation.

I know that 'Morriyen' sounds very ominous, (maybe as a reminder of 'Moriarty' the Sherlock Holmes villain). It used to say 'owner' because we weren't sure exactly what was required by the US banks in this regard. And yes it was changed now because clearly the wrong impression has been given and we didn't want that. So by trying to fix this wrong impression, I guess we made things worse ha?

We were, and are, more than happy to prove to VWM and Bryan with documentation that Morriyen is just that. VWM wasn't interested in seeing evidence and Bryan just published what we sent him. Shame we are not given a chance to prove it, why bash when you can actually find out? Isn't that preferable?

Although best placed, Bryan may feel this aspect is not important enough to spend time on.


2. The debate against affactive - You know it is easy dismissing everything as rogue, yet imagine you have a company and it is attacked 3 times. You ARE suing but you know it will take years and may come to no results, since DDOS attacks are built to hide the true attacker. In fact, the attacker is so confident that he laughs at you directly saying he can knock your site off whenever he wants. Would you let everyone continue working with them without letting them know what kind of outfit this is, and trust that in a few years you may have spent enough time in court to get some kind of justice? Until then they continue to enjoy a pristine reputation and make money off players and affiliates alike. Yes it went too far and I apologized for this, but to put us in the same boat is wrong, there is a big, nay, HUGE difference between attacking another site and complaining about it publicly. In the end we hung a few posts in GPWA and maybe one or two elsewhere. That was the extent of it.


What Not here they don't. They may have their supporters, but their reputation is far from pristine, and they needn't think having a rep sign up here has fooled anybody into believing otherwise. This also means that having Noah here cannot be taken as "proof we are not rogue".
Proving the Affactive - GoldVIPClub link will ensure Affactive ends up a permanent resident of the pit, as whilst a DDoS attack seems "beyond belief" for even a dodgy business, for GoldVIPClub it would be "business as usual", and probably arranged through the same secret channels they used to source the "black hat" geeks for their SEO and spamming attacks.

3."Topgame as a casino supplier is already in the rogue pit" - It is my understanding that what put TG in the rogue pit happened over 2.5 years ago, that they are in the blunders section because of their support staff, something they haven't had for years now, and that TG has been in contact with Bryan to remove them from this area, and it is being examined.I will let the TG rep respond to such things though if he so chooses, not my area.

I won't ask for your belief, since I know there is none at the moment. I hope that VWM or Bryan will let us prove it to them and so to you as well, since I trust that you trust them.

A "work in progress" eclipsed by recent events, unfortunate timing. The Top Game rep recently announced he no longer worked there, and quit the forum in that capacity. This was the Top Game rep we had come to know, and no obvious replacement has appeared. Whilst it is unusual for a software supplier to even have a forum rep, the loss of one if present can be seen as a backward step by players.

Although Top Game have "cleaned up their act" since 2 years ago, they need to prove that the changes are going to stick. Unfortunately, it has not been plain sailing, and Top Game powered casinos are STILL featuring in "casino warnings", and some rogue casinos are STILL allowed to operate on the Top Game platform, giving the impression that Top game don't care what happens to players, so long as THEY get paid. This is the same criticism I have levelled at both RTG and Playtech, so I am by no means picking on Top Game alone.

 

[Nifty29]

Hi all and Nifty,

I'm glad we are debating this. My intention was not to debate the GPWA thread again just the morriyen thing, but you know how threads have a life of their own sometimes....

Please understand that its not easy for us with posting, because iuf we don't then people ask why don't you, when we do we mostly look like we're being defensive or trying to cover up something. All I want to do is explain to you as someone talking to other people.

Nifty I did in fact go to Bryan first and he was the one who recommended showing the evidence to VWM. We invited both of them to see it, so far neither has taken us up on it.

Last time on this issue, I swear - I understand that what happened on GPWA was unprofessional, and yes we posted in a few places because we wanted to draw attention to this, we didn't want it to go unnoticed or covered up. Look you always picture casinos as these big faceless sites, but we have a great staff here with families to support and we are very close due to working a lot together. This is a big staff, a lot of families. We do night shifts because a casino never sleeps, we work from home. This place is important to us and our families depend on it. So no, it wasn't professional, it was an emotional response. I know this is business and all but it is made up of the men and women running it, and when you go around in panic trying to save your place of work a few times it becomes a bit personal, especially if taunted. Its easy to think of this as something only tech guys deal with but this kept a lot of people away from home for a long while, working very hard. It wasn't professional, and I'm sorry it went as bad as it did, but our reaction was a human one, whatever you think of it. We took it to heart.

Yes we brought up stuff from 2 years ago. You do it too every time you mention TG being in the blunders section, because what happened to justify it happened 2.5 years ago. We mentioned it because it sets a pattern and to explain why we are being so emotional about this.

I will heed your advice from now and stop posting. I don't want it to be said that we're trying to cover up something. But I would like the benefit of the doubt, ye be reasonable men and women, until Bryan or VWM agrees to look at the evidence and post their opinion. I would ask that you think of what it costs to see your place of work of many daily and nightly hours attacked without warning a few times over, I ask only those things. At your advice, I will not post again on this unless asked a question.

Kind Regards,

Noah

Since you brought it up....

If you have such a "big" staff and people working night shifts etc, why does it takes months to pay players, and only after complaining in forums? I'm dying to hear the answer. It's actions not words that build a reputation, and the general opinion is that you're only renowned for ignoring players and delaying payouts.

In regards to the evidence issue....well as I said I think many people have moved on from who did what whom. The whole situation and the way both sides handled it, and are still handling it, stinks.

I don't see why, based on Romes past, anyone would give the benefit of the doubt. I have nothing personal against you Noah, its just that I feel you are always defending the indefensible.

You (Rome) made your own bed, and now you have to lie in it.

 

[Nifty29]

I'd be happy to give an opinion if VW doesn't want to review the information.

Although, if you don't agree with the outcome, no legal action can be taken against myself, my companies, or whomever.

You seem vigor in your defense, so I'm your uninterested party.

I think Noah wants someone to view the info and post publicly about how they are totally innocent etc etc. Do you really want to be that person?

Unless you have experience in all aspects of the industry, you're no better placed than anyone else to judge its authenticity etc. I mean that with no offence at all.

 

[RomeCasino]

From Noah

Hi VWM and Nifty,

I won't talk about the affactive thing anymore, I think enough has been said. suffice to say they may not have enjoyed a pristine stand here, but they did with many affiliates.

Morriyen - There has been a mistake, I didn't mean that we're trying to 'fool' the bank. I meant that by law we're required to have a company name that deals with them and on our website.

Nifty - What does one have to do with the other? Delays occur when there is a problem sending to US, we always manage it, there's never a situation where we can't pay, but its not easy at all sending to US and sometimes we send several times. We invest a lot of time and money trying to get it out, a lot more than the wire fees, to be sure. When it gets very delayed that the player goes to forum and, yes it is our fault for delaying him that is true, we try to send it through special channels that unfortunately only allow a small amount of processing through so we save it for special cases. I know it has happened quite a lot recently and we've done a few things about it, such as replacing our head of Finance and also hiring a person who's entire job is to take care of delayed players and update them in real time. We're going to spend a lot of time making sure they are kept updated, while we continue to search for faster ways to process withdrawals, which obviously most are not delayed. I have always admitted to this issue.

I'm not asking for benefit of doubt just that you don't automatically assume the worst. I understand what you say and your position and I respect it and you, I just can't help trying to explain myself.

Kind Regards,

Noah

Since you brought it up....

If you have such a "big" staff and people working night shifts etc, why does it takes months to pay players, and only after complaining in forums? I'm dying to hear the answer. It's actions not words that build a reputation, and the general opinion is that you're only renowned for ignoring players and delaying payouts.

In regards to the evidence issue....well as I said I think many people have moved on from who did what whom. The whole situation and the way both sides handled it, and are still handling it, stinks.

I don't see why, based on Romes past, anyone would give the benefit of the doubt. I have nothing personal against you Noah, its just that I feel you are always defending the indefensible.

You (Rome) made your own bed, and now you have to lie in it.

 

[RomeCasino]

From Noah

I think Noah wants someone to view the info and post publicly about how they are totally innocent etc etc. Do you really want to be that person?

Unless you have experience in all aspects of the industry, you're no better placed than anyone else to judge its authenticity etc. I mean that with no offence at all.

On this, sorry, but I agree with Nifty, we would like to show this to someone who CM players know is impartial and with proven knowledge, such as VWM or Bryan, although I see you are an active member with lots of experience, it would make more sense to show it to one of them.

Cheers,

Noah

 

[P.V.]

On this, sorry, but I agree with Nifty, we would like to show this to someone who CM players know is impartial and with proven knowledge, such as VWM or Bryan, although I see you are an active member with lots of experience, it would make more sense to show it to one of them.

Cheers,

Noah

OK, a U.S. company being transparent, offering a helping hand and a member of the Better Business Bureau isn't good enough?

Good luck..

 

[vinylweatherman]

On this, sorry, but I agree with Nifty, we would like to show this to someone who CM players know is impartial and with proven knowledge, such as VWM or Bryan, although I see you are an active member with lots of experience, it would make more sense to show it to one of them.

Cheers,

Noah

Of the two, Bryan is far better placed to give an unbiased view. My view is likely to be tainted by a bias in favour of the player, and with a lack of personal experience of the US side of things, further biased in favour of how legitimate businesses are expected to behave towards consumers under UK and EU regulations and guidelines.

There is also a risk these documents will fall into the wrong hands, such as the DoJ, who will use them to make it even harder to carry on paying players.

Since you only need a company name to satisfy the banks, why use Morriyen Investments rather than Synergy, or any other name for that matter. If you are not trying to fool the banks, why not simply have the true owner listed as "owner" on the website? I don't mean their NAMES as individuals, just a holding company set up for the purpose, like Synergy.

When I shop online, at Argos for example. The website says "owned and operated by Argos", not "owned and operated by VISA generic payments Ltd", even though payments are all made through them as processor. This fully satisfies banking requirements to have the company names and websites they need in order to accept the transactions. In the US the ONLY reason NOT to do this would be to "fool the banks" so that they don't suspect the transactions are related to gambling and block them. (some names have been invented to make a point, don't go scouring the Argos site to pick holes in the argument).


Given the nature of the industry, especially the US side, I don't think viewing and reviewing these documents is going to get the results Rome are hoping for. It could in fact make things even WORSE for them, as it could fuel further digging around. I cannot see how anyone could say "innocence proved", as surely the best outcome would be "nothing obviously dodgy found so far".

As for the legal arguments, why are you still banging on about CIVIL action against Affactive. DDoS is a CRIMINAL matter, not a Civil one. This is one for the police, which should quickly deal with the immediate problem. Only THEN do you start preparing a civil claim for damages, adding to it anything that comes out of any criminal actions. If the police got involved, I expect those involved would run for cover, and the DDoS would cease. Other "black hat geeks" would be reluctant to take over whilst knowing that international law enforcement were looking into the matter.