WARNING Affiliates Who Target Problem Gamblers

[FruitySlots]

Look, greed overtook ethics, you won't be the first or last. As you say, ultimately YOU bear responsibility and I suspect many reader here will be highly sceptical that a SEO contractor who, if as you say, isn't an industry expect had a brainstorm and suddenly took it upon himself to quite professionally open an affiliate account with a non-GamStop outfit knowing it would monetize those search terms and then pay commission to you.

You're talking to numerous other affiliates on this forum as well as seasoned players, YT viewers and industry professionals and I find this denial insults our intelligence to be frank. It seems to me simply a case of "well, others are doing it so it why should I miss out?

sorry pal but this has peeved me off a bit. Im not trying to insult anyones intelligence but vice versa you accusing us of greed yet we didnt have any affiliation on the said 'non gam stop' page.

Its all a bit pot kettle black but 'you did worse' situation. Your website is called fastpayingcasinos. It says :

Online slots and casino player? Want fast cash-outs? You can at these fast paying casinos!
Fast paying casinos with no pending period or cash-outs in minutes to 24 hours. Get your winnings paid fast!

You have over 70+ casinos listed on the homepage. I dont even know if a handfull of them pay out in minutes or fast. Is that completelty false advertising of your whole entire site? Its such a dangerous game calling out affiliates and then going a step further to try and pressurize there partners to cut ties with them. Its border line bullying.

The deal with Conquestador was nothing to do with greed. We saw them plastered all over Google ads, we thought they had a decent looking product and good games and as a new casino that wasnt saturared amongst the streaming community we got in touch and started working with them. Completely unknowing that they were not on gamstop. I have actually refunded some players losses who were on gamstop and gambled on this casino.

I dont mind debate but wrongful accusations and inaccurate comments and statement are very dangerous and cause more issues because people jump on the back of them and everything spirals.

 

[FruitySlots]

Other than taking down the content, what are you intending to do to set right the damage that has been done by your business?

We can contact everyone who signed up to conquestador through us and find out if they were on Gamstop. If they were we can refund thier losses.

Its not a huge pool of customers as we are not a massive affiliate. This will pretty much cover any/all damage done by working with/promoting a non gamstop casino. I have already done this with 1 customer who reached out to me.

 

[colinsunderland]

We can contact everyone who signed up to conquestador through us and find out if they were on Gamstop. If they were we can refund thier losses.

Its not a huge pool of customers as we are not a massive affiliate. This will pretty much cover any/all damage done by working with/promoting a non gamstop casino. I have already done this with 1 customer who reached out to me.

How are you going to do that?

 

[Supababe]

I love how the community is coming together to tackle such ‘shady’ practice. It is too be commended.

I have avoided commenting so far but felt strongly compelled to add this....

We simply don’t want to appear to be a forum who gang up and bully. We need to be extremely careful of who we string up.

Yes, the guilty parties will make excuses but also there may well be some innocence amongst their replies. It is not our place to play judge and jury. That lies with the tagged casinos affiliate members who, as accredited ones, we should have enough respect to trust the judgements of.

Targeting specifically Conquestador affiliates is detracting from the bigger issues here. It is forgivable in my eyes that sites assumed that this was part of GAMSTOP, or that it would be in the imminent future.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Here are some basic facts.

You state that:



However, a quick look at the web archieve shows this:

and this

and this

Con******* are one of the few operators left with a UK license that are not participating in the GamStop scheme. So your claim is that an SEO in your employ has put a page up that is specifically intended to drive traffic related to bypassing GamStop and it just so happens that you've also selected to give one of the few remaining operators not participating in GamStop 2 out of 3 top positions on your homepage and by far the greatest click exposure of any operator on your homepage.

For the sake of clarity, I will also highlight that this is at a time when the offending page can be confirmed to have been present on your site:

I could have posted links to Wayback Machine but it is note worthy that someone has had the archieve page for the 'Casinos not on GamStop' page removed from the archieve. This may have been an attempt to clean up this mess, but it also stops verification of what was actually on the page prior to takedown.

Whether or not you had advertisements on that particularly page, your SEO strategy was clearly intended to bring traffic to your site from search terms related to bypassing GamStop. Saying that you have not financially benefitted from this traffic because their were no advertisements on that page is to ask everyone to naively believe that all of the traffic only visited that page and left.

Personally I find it a little difficult to believe that not only has an SEO been given entirely unsupervised access to post whatever they like, but that your selection of premium partner just so happened to be one that could take advantage of the vulnerable traffic your SEO was specifically tapping into. I note that this brand appears to have been removed as well, so it seems likely you are aware that they weren't participating with GamStop.

Moving on you also state:



If you are genuine in your position of being held accountable for this issue you'll understand that you have brought in vulnerable traffic looking to bypass GamStop, then presented them with your '#1 pick', an operator that doesn't participate in GamStop. Other than taking down the content, what are you intending to do to set right the damage that has been done by your business?

You also understand that there's a good possibility that operators found to have been involved with affiliates engaging these practices could face regulatory sanction? Are you prepared to take responsibility for any subsequent negative consequences for your partners that come from your actions?

TP

One of the most credible and thorough demolitions of business integrity I have seen. I tip my hat to you.

 

[FruitySlots]

How are you going to do that?

The majority of users are signed up through our giveaways which they need to register on our website to take part in so we have there contact information. I'll speak to conquestador about the remaining players.

 

[FruitySlots]

Targeting specifically Conquestador affiliates is detracting from the bigger issues here. It is forgivable in my eyes that sites assumed that this was part of GAMSTOP, or that it would be in the imminent future.

thanks for that sensible post. i also agree its detracting from the thread.

 

[colinsunderland]

The majority of users are signed up through our giveaways which they need to register on our website to take part in so we have there contact information. I'll speak to conquestador about the remaining players.

just be careful you or the casino aren't breaching any laws - not having a go, just a little advice. The GDPR is far reaching and certainly conquestador won't be able to legally give you any customer information.

 

[FruitySlots]

My last post before i go an try and enjoy my holiday. This was our traffic stats for 'said page'. As stated we have tiny traffic and i genuinly believe there was zero damage done. We removed immediately and again the page had NO affiliate links on it. We will work on making right the Conquestador partnership seperately.

But seriously guys. 22 visits with a 81% bounce rate and 23 sec av duration. The rhetoric and stuff that has been thrown towards us simply does not warrant the 'crime'.

 

[FruitySlots]

just be careful you or the casino aren't breaching any laws - not having a go, just a little advice. The GDPR is far reaching and certainly conquestador won't be able to legally give you any customer information.

correct they wont but they may be able to communicate with are tagged players themselevs and we can communicate with the ones on our site which is the majority.

 

[dunover]

sorry pal but this has peeved me off a bit. Im not trying to insult anyones intelligence but vice versa you accusing us of greed yet we didnt have any affiliation on the said 'non gam stop' page.

Its all a bit pot kettle black but 'you did worse' situation. Your website is called fastpayingcasinos. It says :

Online slots and casino player? Want fast cash-outs? You can at these fast paying casinos!
Fast paying casinos with no pending period or cash-outs in minutes to 24 hours. Get your winnings paid fast!

You have over 70+ casinos listed on the homepage. I dont even know if a handfull of them pay out in minutes or fast. Is that completelty false advertising of your whole entire site? Its such a dangerous game calling out affiliates and then going a step further to try and pressurize there partners to cut ties with them. Its border line bullying.

The deal with Conquestador was nothing to do with greed. We saw them plastered all over Google ads, we thought they had a decent looking product and good games and as a new casino that wasnt saturared amongst the streaming community we got in touch and started working with them. Completely unknowing that they were not on gamstop. I have actually refunded some players losses who were on gamstop and gambled on this casino.

I dont mind debate but wrongful accusations and inaccurate comments and statement are very dangerous and cause more issues because people jump on the back of them and everything spirals.

Yes, and my site states the criteria for the bolded text:

"The casinos on here offer varying reversal times. On some you cannot reverse, on others a few hours or even minutes only. I consider fast-paying to be instant to 24 hours. I do have a section of casinos which pay in 24-48 hours and that is the absolute limit of my tolerance as a player, 2 working days isn’t great but not uncommon. If it’s in excess of 48 as standard then the casino won’t be on here. These figures are assuming you have already KYC’d (submitted and had documents approved if required to do so). If it’s your first withdrawal or the amount is over around 1800 they may ask regardless."

In other words when KYC'd, how I personally define 'fast paying' and in the context of large amounts of casinos offering Playtech with standard 96-hours pending, or Cassava sites with 72 hours - which you'll see therefore aren't promoted! The majority DO process in minutes to 24 hours and some 24-48 which is stated but as I said that assumes KYC and aimed at UK market where slow withdrawals are being discouraged by the UKGC anyway, and if reversals are banned to UK players I'll have the problem of thinking up a new USP lol....

I don't see any mention of non-Gamstop sites, using non-Gamstop as an enticement nor rogue casinos by the way!

If you consider arguing the toss about my definition of fast-paying as 'you did worse' than targeting problem gamblers, you are in the wrong industry. It shows you're clutching at straws.

It's good if what you say is kosher and you're putting it right to affected players at that casino who were on Gamstop but doesn't that in itself exemplify the whole issue here? The fact you had this copy in Google SEO, even for a relatively brief period, is now proven to have enticed problem gamblers to play again through YOUR site and set back their recovery which may have been succeeding for who knows how many months or years before being suckered in? The buck stops with you mate.

Getting affiliate accounts terminated is quite a mild outcome considering many now have terms stating that serious breaches COULD result in legal action and fines for the affiliate up to 50k. And whomever is really responsible, you or an anonymous 'SEO man' it doesn't get more serious than what's gone on here.

For the record, I don't believe for one moment you are of the same magnitude of vileness as those affiliate sites that have not only aimed SEO at PG's, but then proceeded to direct them to shithole 1668/JAZ casino sites to boot. I also appreciate you entering this shitstorm to reply to the flak, as I doubt others will.

 

[dunover]

just be careful you or the casino aren't breaching any laws - not having a go, just a little advice. The GDPR is far reaching and certainly conquestador won't be able to legally give you any customer information.

Glad you said that, I thought the same.

 

[trancemonkey]

View attachment 113041

So @FruitySlots denies knowledge of doing anything wrong and blames some nameless SEO guy? And yet this article is quite explicit in its advice for players looking to avoid GamStop...

This makes me really angry.. there are words for people like this that i will not use in a public forum.

 

[ThePOGG]

correct they wont but they may be able to communicate with are tagged players themselevs and we can communicate with the ones on our site which is the majority.

FruitySlots is correct in this respect - Conquestador could easily identify any UK players registered via their links during the impacted period and assuming that the operator is prepared to cooperate action this to ensure no vulnerable player has been harmed. That would be a very positive step forward in this regard.

However, that doesn't prevent the UKGC stepping in and sanctioning licensees over the action of their affiliate partner. Taking responsibility for the situation means not leaving your partners to take the hit for your actions.

As I've said to a couple of operators this morning - in their shoes this situation would have me losing sleep. While the operators have likely been unaware of the activity they now face undue regulatory attention and the regulator has made absolutely clear that they can and will hold licensees responsible for their advertising partner's actions.

TP

 

[Supababe]

Yes, and my site states the criteria for the bolded text:

"The casinos on here offer varying reversal times. On some you cannot reverse, on others a few hours or even minutes only. I consider fast-paying to be instant to 24 hours. I do have a section of casinos which pay in 24-48 hours and that is the absolute limit of my tolerance as a player, 2 working days isn’t great but not uncommon. If it’s in excess of 48 as standard then the casino won’t be on here. These figures are assuming you have already KYC’d (submitted and had documents approved if required to do so). If it’s your first withdrawal or the amount is over around 1800 they may ask regardless."

In other words when KYC'd, how I personally define 'fast paying' and in the context of large amounts of casinos offering Playtech with standard 96-hours pending, or Cassava sites with 72 hours - which you'll see therefore aren't promoted! The majority DO process in minutes to 24 hours and some 24-48 which is stated but as I said that assumes KYC and aimed at UK market where slow withdrawals are being discouraged by the UKGC anyway, and if reversals are banned to UK players I'll have the problem of thinking up a new USP lol....

I don't see any mention of non-Gamstop sites, using non-Gamstop as an enticement nor rogue casinos by the way!

If you consider arguing the toss about my definition of fast-paying as 'you did worse' than targeting problem gamblers, you are in the wrong industry. It shows you're clutching at straws.

It's good if what you say is kosher and you're putting it right to affected players at that casino who were on Gamstop but doesn't that in itself exemplify the whole issue here? The fact you had this copy in Google SEO, even for a relatively brief period, is now proven to have enticed problem gamblers to play again through YOUR site and set back their recovery which may have been succeeding for who knows how many months or years before being suckered in? The buck stops with you mate.

Getting affiliate accounts terminated is quite a mild outcome considering many now have terms stating that serious breaches COULD result in legal action and fines for the affiliate up to 50k. And whomever is really responsible, you or an anonymous 'SEO man' it doesn't get more serious than what's gone on here.

For the record, I don't believe for one moment you are of the same magnitude of vileness as those affiliate sites that have not only aimed SEO at PG's, but then proceeded to direct them to shithole 1668/JAZ casino sites to boot. I also appreciate you entering this shitstorm to reply to the flak, as I doubt others will.

As someone who has an affiliate site and streams/makes videos please try to avoid hasty replies where you perhaps:

1. Appear to be the judge/ jury /prosecution.
2. Appear to be bitchin’ and discrediting competition.

I’m sure neither is the case but that’s how it MAY appear to us ‘non industry’ Readers.
This thread and issue is very very important, not an opportunity to pick at another’s site.

 

[Supababe]

So @FruitySlots denies knowledge of doing anything wrong and blames some nameless SEO guy? And yet this article is quite explicit in its advice for players looking to avoid GamStop...

This makes me really angry.. there are words for people like this that i will not use in a public forum.

Did you actually read anything fruity man wrote today? Where did he not accept responsibility? Where has he not taken steps to rectify?

Try ACTUALLY zooming in and reading the article in the picture. It is talking about AFTER a Gamstop period has ended!!!! Ffs.

Why are we chasing people away with pitchforks?

 

[nutnut]

Can't help but smell a witch hunt here, affiliate trying to cut each other throats. Hence my point previously just a greedy industry with people trying to compete for crumbs.

No clue who fruityslot is but as outsider hes calmly explained himself very well given how some have made some rather bold accusations about himself.

 

[dunover]

As someone who has an affiliate site and streams/makes videos please try to avoid hasty replies where you perhaps:

1. Appear to be the judge/ jury /prosecution.
2. Appear to be bitchin’ and discrediting competition.

I’m sure neither is the case but that’s how it MAY appear to us ‘non industry’ Readers.
This thread and issue is very very important, not an opportunity to pick at another’s site.

Nope. I've never streamed, simply 'vlogged' and do not recruit players through YT. I do not see these affiliate sites promoting to problem gamblers as 'competition' at all, rather a danger to vulnerable individuals and the industry as a whole. And yes, like most I will happily judge those who target PG's and encourage their removal from the industry because if this activity prevails it will affect everyone - players, casinos, responsible affiliates and the already-tarnished reputation of late the online gambling world has. I didn't even know of this person's existence until this thread began.

As you say, the issue is hugely important for obvious reasons and if a site has been found to be breaching CAP regulations like this, pray tell us how it's feasible to discuss the topic without reference to the origins of it viz-a-viz the offending website(s) of which alas there are many more posted in this topic than just this person's??

This forum can and will name and shame rogues and that goes for affiliates as well as casinos and dishonest players.

Unless you believe a quick apology and hasty removal of offending content has brushed the whole matter under the carpet?

 

[Supababe]

Unless you believe a quick apology and hasty removal of offending content has brushed the whole matter under the carpet?

Have We evidence of this ‘offending content’ for FS? I have followed this thread since it started and don’t recall... apologies if we have this of couse.

 

[colinsunderland]

Have We evidence of this ‘offending content’ for FS? I have followed this thread since it started and don’t recall... apologies if we have this of couse.

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[nutnut]

Posting slot reviews and general videos related to gambling on YouTube. Many would argue is more a threat to promoting to the vulnerable than any other platform. Titles with MASSIVE WIN etc and it's never a normal player always got a website or sign up link conveniently below.

End of the day gambling is like smoking least it should be. Advertisements should be very strict and if someone takes up smoking so be it.

But gambling is rammed down our throats 24/7. Social media ads, sports sites. YouTube, text messages and emails daily even letters through the post. Half the time I'm not even a member of the casino spamming me.

This all exists because people make money off sign ups, you ban it and it solves half the problem of ramming it down your face.

 

[ThePOGG]

Have We evidence of this ‘offending content’ for FS? I have followed this thread since it started and don’t recall... apologies if we have this of couse.

WARNING - Affiliates Who Target Problem Gamblers

The actual content itself has now been removed but others have screen captures:

WARNING - Affiliates Who Target Problem Gamblers


FS is in a position that is better than the other sites involved here. There's no question about that. They haven't been working with the proper rogues that the other sites have (unlicensed and highly problematic for players). They only had a single partner that could benefit from this traffic. And it is to their credit that they are here. There is scope to view this as a mistake. But mistake or not the affiliate has to take action to actually take responsibility. That means UK players who signed-up during this campaign are refunded and their partners cannot be left to face sanction for their actions if that were to happen.

TP

 

[dunover]

Have We evidence of this ‘offending content’ for FS? I have followed this thread since it started and don’t recall... apologies if we have this of couse.

Yes, you do have proof but Colin's beat me to it. This evidence has also been hastily removed from the WayBack machine but I can attest it was indeed there.

 

[irish-ranger]

Can't help but smell a witch hunt here, affiliate trying to cut each other throats. Hence my point previously just a greedy industry with people trying to compete for crumbs.

No clue who fruityslot is but as outsider hes calmly explained himself very well given how some have made some rather bold accusations about himself.

I couldn’t agree more they are all no worse than each other as I’ve said before the online gambling industry is corrupt to the core and it is a cut throat business due to the money involved.

There’s one affiliate posting on this thread who’s site I visited on Sunday night who has a highly rated casino listed I went ahead and made a deposit.

Busted out on the deposit and bonus had some free spins checked out the terms with regards to these spins which were also tied in with no deposit spins so I hit live chat who informed me they reserve the right to cap free spins winnings to £50 yet on the affiliate site it states £100 max cash out when I informed chat of this she stuck by her guns stating it’s £50.

On top of that they have a 48 to 72 pending time before processing then can take another 5 days to hit account (maybe) as they wouldn’t accept KYC before processing.

Anyhow that’s the first and last time I will be getting steered to open an account via affiliate including CM.

 

[dunover]

Posting slot reviews and general videos related to gambling on YouTube. Many would argue is more a threat to promoting to the vulnerable than any other platform. Titles with MASSIVE WIN etc and it's never a normal player always got a website or sign up link conveniently below.

End of the day gambling is like smoking least it should be. Advertisements should be very strict and if someone takes up smoking so be it.

But gambling is rammed down our throats 24/7. Social media ads, sports sites. YouTube, text messages and emails daily even letters through the post. Half the time I'm not even a member of the casino spamming me.

This all exists because people make money off sign ups, you ban it and it solves half the problem of ramming it down your face.

If you see a video with a casino affiliate sign-up link below, report it as it will get the poster a strike, expressly not allowed any more. You can place your web url, RG urls but not directly promote gambling via links. I also agree YT is out of control, which may surprise you as I post regularly but only demo slot reviews now. And just for you, got over 1100x on Bonanza last week.

 

[FruitySlots]

FruitySlots is correct in this respect - Conquestador could easily identify any UK players registered via their links during the impacted period and assuming that the operator is prepared to cooperate action this to ensure no vulnerable player has been harmed. That would be a very positive step forward in this regard.

However, that doesn't prevent the UKGC stepping in and sanctioning licensees over the action of their affiliate partner. Taking responsibility for the situation means not leaving your partners to take the hit for your actions.

As I've said to a couple of operators this morning - in their shoes this situation would have me losing sleep. While the operators have likely been unaware of the activity they now face undue regulatory attention and the regulator has made absolutely clear that they can and will hold licensees responsible for their advertising partner's actions.

TP

We are already working with a few individuals to repay losses and will do this fully for anyone who was on gamstop and joined said casino.

Can I ask a question as I’m a little confused over some of the suggestions on this thread about the UKGC and sanctioning licences.

Surely the UKGC who have granted conquestador a license and will fully know that they are not yet on gamstop ( although apparently will be very soon ) are not going to go after other licences who work with affiliates who promote conquestador. That would make no sense whatsoever? They can’t punish another license for working with an affiliate who they have granted a licence too. Am i missing something here?

 

[Supababe]

Yes, you do have proof but Colin's beat me to it. This evidence has also been hastily removed from the WayBack machine but I can attest it was indeed there.

Please could you highlight in the screenshot where the site is telling people on Gamstop to visit the casinos? I may be being stupid but the article doesn’t actually say that does it?

 

[ThePOGG]

Surely the UKGC who have granted conquestador a license and will fully know that they are not yet on gamstop ( although apparently will be very soon ) are not going to go after other licences who work with affiliates who promote conquestador. That would make no sense whatsoever? They can’t punish another license for working with an affiliate who they have granted a licence too. Am i missing something here?

Hi FS,

That's a good start and I commend you for being proactive.

The problem with this content isn't solely limited to GamStop. The LCCP requires operators to uphold ethical standards that includes ensuring that vulnerable persons are protected from being harmed or exploited by gambling. This is extended to the advertising partners that licensees work with. So sites targeting children with gambling advertisement, or specifically looking to draw in gambling addict traffic (vulnerable) are likely to be viewed as in breach of this.

You are entirely correct that if fines come down they are far more likely to fall on groups that are partnered with affiliates channelling traffic to unlicensed operators as well (where there were far more ways that vulnerable users could engage), but that does not exclude any possibility of the regulator taking a stronger position of this.

TP

 

[dunover]

Please could you highlight in the screenshot where the site is telling people on Gamstop to visit the casinos? I may be being stupid but the article doesn’t actually say that does it?

You need to re-read this thread. The Google terms for 'Casinos not on GamStop' or similar was the initiating post whereby sites have either bought those keywords from Google Ads or incorporated them in their SEO, ipso facto the traffic/visitors targeted via those keywords are directed to those landing pages to join those casinos for that very specific reason.

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(P.S. see posts #192 and 193)

Look at the last paragraph. Then of course the C-casino is mentioned, not in the image but it is in other ones from the site, now removed and in other posts on here.

It's not about semantics regarding the text but the deliberate targeting of PG's who would use those search terms in moments of weakness.

Guy said himself his 'SEO person' was using the term, unwisely, to get the site traffic through those terms. The casino in question was then top-listed and had the primary large-sized ad spot above too. It achieved exactly what I said, a fact underlined by him stating he had recruited GamStop players via the site to that casino, whom he is in the process of refunding losses to. Which is good.

I can understand you're asking these questions as a non-affiliate, but any poster here who is one knows exactly what was going on.

 

[Esko - GiG Affiliates]

Just to let all know, the GiG Affiliates team has taken appropriate action and terminated this affiliate's account as well as requested the removal of our brands; it appears he was not actively sending us any players, but we have taken the necessary precautions regardless. We too were unaware of this affiliate’s unethical practice, and since being notified of our presence on their recommended UK casino page we have taken action. GiG will not tolerate nor condone this behavior and are committed to ensuring our players’ wellbeing. And thanks to Casinomeister for flagging this!

 

[EkJR]

Casinomir

Posting slot reviews and general videos related to gambling on YouTube. Many would argue is more a threat to promoting to the vulnerable than any other platform. Titles with MASSIVE WIN etc and it's never a normal player always got a website or sign up link conveniently below.

End of the day gambling is like smoking least it should be. Advertisements should be very strict and if someone takes up smoking so be it.

But gambling is rammed down our throats 24/7. Social media ads, sports sites. YouTube, text messages and emails daily even letters through the post. Half the time I'm not even a member of the casino spamming me.

This all exists because people make money off sign ups, you ban it and it solves half the problem of ramming it down your face.

Agree, Roshtein and the like. Not even sure it's real either!

 

[ThePOGG]

I've spent a lot of time and energy thinking about this issue today and have a couple of passing comments to make.

Firstly - I have to say a big thank you to all the operators who have responded to the email contacts sent out. The response from operators to these activities has been decisive. The operators that have confirmed to us that relationships with the involved parties will be terminated are as follows (in no particular order):

Mansion
Energy
MrQ
Genesis
Karamba
BGO
Dunder
MrPlay
GiG
Frank Affiliates
L&L Europe

Several more have notified us of ongoing investigations into this issue.

It's great to see so many big names taking a zero tollerance approach to this topic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That said, I have considered the FruitySlots issue further and with the additional time do feel that their situation is..... different to that of the other sites identifiesd in this issue.

Their content was much the same as the other sites, but as far as I am aware there were no 'illegal' operators sent traffic anywhere on their site. There was Conquestador. While that it is unquestionably a significant coincidence that one of very few UK licensees not to have signed-up with GamStop is right at the top of the list, it is possible this was simply a coincidence. The lack of other viable partners to send this traffic to make this an SEO strategy that would be unlikely to produce viable results. Would it be smart to try to get traffic from South Africa if you didn't have any operators that would accept South African players? Every other one of these sites has been heavily populated by properly rogue operations - unlicensed with case files of player problems as long as any operator in the industry. They had plenty of sources to dump this traffic to. FruitySlots had one.

I still don't like what's happened here, and I would like to see FruitySlots unequivically accept responsibility for their actions, but I do think a differential has to be made in this case given the facts. As such I've decided that we will not include FruitySlots within our position on the other sites.
I hope the readership here will understand the basis for this climbdown.

TP

 

[colinsunderland]

Just to let all know, the GiG Affiliates team has taken appropriate action and terminated this affiliate's account as well as requested the removal of our brands; it appears he was not actively sending us any players, but we have taken the necessary precautions regardless. We too were unaware of this affiliate’s unethical practice, and since being notified of our presence on their recommended UK casino page we have taken action. GiG will not tolerate nor condone this behavior and are committed to ensuring our players’ wellbeing. And thanks to Casinomeister for flagging this!

Well done on that, is that for all the sites mentioned on the thread like casinomir and zamsino or just choice casino ones?

 

[L&L-Jan]

I've spent a lot of time and energy thinking about this issue today and have a couple of passing comments to make.

Firstly - I have to say a big thank you to all the operators who have responded to the email contacts sent out. The response from operators to these activities has been decisive. The operators that have confirmed to us that relationships with the involved parties will be terminated are as follows (in no particular order):

Mansion
Energy
MrQ
Genesis
Karamba
BGO
Dunder
MrPlay
GiG
Frank Affiliates

Several more have notified us of ongoing investigations into this issue.

I believe we are missing a name here, or the call in the afternoon was unclear?

 

[ThePOGG]

I believe we are missing a name here, or the call in the afternoon was unclear?

Not at all - I just didn't want to pre-judge before conformation. Speaking to Ryan now and I've edited above.

TP

 

[dunover]

I've spent a lot of time and energy thinking about this issue today and have a couple of passing comments to make.

Firstly - I have to say a big thank you to all the operators who have responded to the email contacts sent out. The response from operators to these activities has been decisive. The operators that have confirmed to us that relationships with the involved parties will be terminated are as follows (in no particular order):

Mansion
Energy
MrQ
Genesis
Karamba
BGO
Dunder
MrPlay
GiG
Frank Affiliates
L&L Europe

Several more have notified us of ongoing investigations into this issue.

It's great to see so many big names taking a zero tollerance approach to this topic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That said, I have considered the FruitySlots issue further and with the additional time do feel that their situation is..... different to that of the other sites identifies in this issue.

Their content was much the same as the other sites, but as far as I am aware there were no 'illegal' operators sent traffic anywhere on their site. There was Conquestador. While that it is unquestionably a significant coincidence that one of very few UK licensees not to have signed-up with GamStop is right at the top of the list, it is possible this was simply a coincidence. The lack of other viable partners to send this traffic to make this an SEO strategy that would be unlikely to produce viable results. Would it be smart to try to get traffic from South Africa if you didn't have any operators that would accept South African players? Every other one of these sites has been heavily populated by properly rogue operations - unlicensed with case files of player problems as long as any operator in the industry. They had plenty of sources to dump this traffic to. FruitySlots had one.

I still don't like what's happened here, and I would like to see FruitySlots unequivically accept responsibility for their actions, but I do think a differential has to be made in this case given the facts. As such I've decided that we will not include FruitySlots within our position on the other sites.
I hope the readership here will understand the basis for this climbdown.

TP

Yes, kudos to the affiliate programmes for swift and decisive action. I do agree that FS is still in denial regarding their culpability but as you say on the rogue scale, compared to those sites sending PG traffic/players to numerous shithole casinos, they are quite insignificant in comparison. At least he came here to reply and has attempted to refund players and clearly would never contemplate similar SEO in future. I don't believe myself it was coincidence C*********r was prominent, but they're off now anyway.

I sincerely hope this whole issue can be nipped in the bud, but you just know some sites don't give a flying one and alas will continue to behave in this way. At least one site has stopped it, which means something's been achieved after all.

 

[trancemonkey]

Did you actually read anything fruity man wrote today? Where did he not accept responsibility? Where has he not taken steps to rectify?

Try ACTUALLY zooming in and reading the article in the picture. It is talking about AFTER a Gamstop period has ended!!!! Ffs.

Why are we chasing people away with pitchforks?

Because I don't buy the reasoning... i think it's a thinly veiled attempt to look legit when going after problem gamblers...

And one thing it isnt doing is promoting responsible gaming. No witch hunt, just an opinion.

That said, the conclusion ThePOGG has come to about FruitySlots leads me to believe that i may have been a bit too harsh in picking on them ALTHOUGH I still believe that the text in that picture was likely to target problem gamblers looking to get around GamStop and this is still, in my opinion, wholly unacceptable.

 

[Supababe]

I've spent a lot of time and energy thinking about this issue today and have a couple of passing comments to make.

Firstly - I have to say a big thank you to all the operators who have responded to the email contacts sent out. The response from operators to these activities has been decisive. The operators that have confirmed to us that relationships with the involved parties will be terminated are as follows (in no particular order):

Mansion
Energy
MrQ
Genesis
Karamba
BGO
Dunder
MrPlay
GiG
Frank Affiliates
L&L Europe

Several more have notified us of ongoing investigations into this issue.

It's great to see so many big names taking a zero tollerance approach to this topic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That said, I have considered the FruitySlots issue further and with the additional time do feel that their situation is..... different to that of the other sites identifiesd in this issue.

Their content was much the same as the other sites, but as far as I am aware there were no 'illegal' operators sent traffic anywhere on their site. There was Conquestador. While that it is unquestionably a significant coincidence that one of very few UK licensees not to have signed-up with GamStop is right at the top of the list, it is possible this was simply a coincidence. The lack of other viable partners to send this traffic to make this an SEO strategy that would be unlikely to produce viable results. Would it be smart to try to get traffic from South Africa if you didn't have any operators that would accept South African players? Every other one of these sites has been heavily populated by properly rogue operations - unlicensed with case files of player problems as long as any operator in the industry. They had plenty of sources to dump this traffic to. FruitySlots had one.

I still don't like what's happened here, and I would like to see FruitySlots unequivically accept responsibility for their actions, but I do think a differential has to be made in this case given the facts. As such I've decided that we will not include FruitySlots within our position on the other sites.
I hope the readership here will understand the basis for this climbdown.

TP

Thank you for taking time to stop and think rationally, in a balanced and fair way and for putting this post together.

It’s Kinda the conclusion I came to first thing this morning and this is what I was trying to explain but you worded it so so so much better lol.

I was keeping my ‘non-industry’ nose out of the thread until today, but would hate it if our wonderful forum appeared to be mobbish and we weren’t able to truly listen to all sides, allowing a just and balanced conclusion.

 

[Roedgaard72]

OK, so this 'SEO guy' has been given carte blanche to operate your website, without industry knowledge and the fact that any errors can prove costly for both you and the good casinos promoted?



So this image, which shows one of the prime non-Gamstop sites mentioned and who are number one on your list plus having the large tile ad on the page, was placed there and you NEVER had an affiliate account with them?? You could never earn from them? Pull the other one.

View attachment 113039

Look, greed overtook ethics, you won't be the first or last. As you say, ultimately YOU bear responsibility and I suspect many reader here will be highly sceptical that a SEO contractor who, if as you say, isn't an industry expect had a brainstorm and suddenly took it upon himself to quite professionally open an affiliate account with a non-GamStop outfit knowing it would monetize those search terms and then pay commission to you.

You're talking to numerous other affiliates on this forum as well as seasoned players, YT viewers and industry professionals and I find this denial insults our intelligence to be frank. It seems to me simply a case of "well, others are doing it so it why should I miss out?"

Yes, being an affiliate can be complicated and there's an ongoing learning process and we all make mistakes along the way - that we can all accept. I can't see any unlicensed shithole casino sites that others have advertised so at least that's one good thing unless I've missed something.

Alas in today's climate you won't find much sympathy or understanding for utilizing problem gambler-targeting keywords and those who have are now learning a very costly and harsh lesson about the potential regulatory consequences for the reputable casinos that they have accounts with, as well as their own income and reputation.

P.S. - It's a bit late to pull the 'WayBack' page, don't you think? You can't un-ring a bell.

I knew it was bull when they stated they had years and years of experience and seemed to "care" about

I not going to be able to respond much and just wanted to post that 1 thread.

But giving the points raised about Conquestador which i find completely off topic i will respond with the following.

Conquestador casino who were not mentioned or promoted on said page. The page which has now been shared via screenshots on this forum had no affiliation on them at all and we are not affiliated to any of these casino. There is evidence of this.

We did have an affiliate relationship with Conquestador and like @Casinomeister has rightly pointed us this thread is about affiliates targetting gamstop players with non gamstop casinos. Not which casinos do or dont have Gamstop. Im pretty sure Bitstarz is listed on here, do they have gamstop?

Conquestador is currently not listed on Gam Stop but we didn’t know this when we signed up with them. Yes this may be very naive and people may not believe us but we generally did not think of ever checking or looking because to our knowledge no UK license we work with is now not on gam stop and we simply believed it was a fundamental pre requisite for any UK license casino to have so it was not something we would ever think of asking or checking. Another lesson learnt.

As soon as we found out they were not on gam stop we asked them immediately if it was intentional or whether they had plans to join and we were told unequivocally that they have applied to be listed but due to technical integrations it doesn’t happen overnight. When we more recently followed up on this (last week) we were told that testing has now taking place and all being well they will be added by sept latest. For us that was enough to know, and we were satisfied with that answer. WE NEVER once promoted the fact that they were not on Gam Stop. We believe there was no malice behind the fact that a fairly new casino had not got listed on gam stop immediately although on reflection given what has occurred and our expectations and duty as streamers to promote safe and responsible gambling it can certainly be seen as a big error of judgement. For those reasons we removed them from the site yesterday because the matter of being partnered with them and being number 1 on our site was far to close to association with the other issue.

As a new streaming partner of ours Conquestador were giving 2 months of top positions on our site. This for me is completely seperate to what this thread is about but for us a very unfortunate connection because Conquestador happens to not be on gamstop.

I dont want to ruin my holiday by getting involved with what appears a witch hunt now. But i did want to share our version of events and get our opinion/points across.

For me i dont see any point in going back and forth about our negligence for allowing the article to get listed on the site. Like i said it was removed well before this thread started. We are a far from perfect business and lack major resource. Thats not an excuse just the way it is. The site needs a lot of work and there is plenty of content on that 'casino guides' section that is a little baffling. I dont want to remain in this forum being told how bad we are and how irresponcible it was the give a free reign to an seo consultant. I appreciate the magnitude of the error but i dont believe for one minuate every web master here runs a perfect opertion in a very morally questionable industry as it stands.

Enough said from me. There is too much trolling for my liking because certain people on here are only here to bash others.

When you started out you did a lot to ensure that you had many years of experience. When I look at your stream or see the above mentioned, I just see gamblers that wants to make a quick dime. I see no knowledge and no carring tbh.

 

[geordiecolin]

I've spent a lot of time and energy thinking about this issue today and have a couple of passing comments to make.

Firstly - I have to say a big thank you to all the operators who have responded to the email contacts sent out. The response from operators to these activities has been decisive. The operators that have confirmed to us that relationships with the involved parties will be terminated are as follows (in no particular order):

Mansion
Energy
MrQ
Genesis
Karamba
BGO
Dunder
MrPlay
GiG
Frank Affiliates
L&L Europe

Several more have notified us of ongoing investigations into this issue.

It's great to see so many big names taking a zero tollerance approach to this topic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That said, I have considered the FruitySlots issue further and with the additional time do feel that their situation is..... different to that of the other sites identifiesd in this issue.

Their content was much the same as the other sites, but as far as I am aware there were no 'illegal' operators sent traffic anywhere on their site. There was Conquestador. While that it is unquestionably a significant coincidence that one of very few UK licensees not to have signed-up with GamStop is right at the top of the list, it is possible this was simply a coincidence. The lack of other viable partners to send this traffic to make this an SEO strategy that would be unlikely to produce viable results. Would it be smart to try to get traffic from South Africa if you didn't have any operators that would accept South African players? Every other one of these sites has been heavily populated by properly rogue operations - unlicensed with case files of player problems as long as any operator in the industry. They had plenty of sources to dump this traffic to. FruitySlots had one.

I still don't like what's happened here, and I would like to see FruitySlots unequivically accept responsibility for their actions, but I do think a differential has to be made in this case given the facts. As such I've decided that we will not include FruitySlots within our position on the other sites.
I hope the readership here will understand the basis for this climbdown.

TP

I really like your clear analitical posts.
regardless of motivations I really appreciate that Mr Fruity has been willing to engage in CM and that going forward he has been willing to correct any wrongdoings/issues presented in this thread.
I have no idea how aware he was about the practices relating to his site where but it is clear that the casino is either fledgling or struggling to get established.
We all make mistakes when attempting to make something out of a business and there this no doubt that it is much the same in this casino industry.
I simply intend to keep an open mind while reading what I see as the most interesting thread this year.
Over the few years I have been here I have seen endless reps and bigwigs withdraw from engaging in these fora and all I see is a few posters waving their dicks about as if it is a competition when one shows up despite the fact that they are wearing very similar clothes

 

[geordiecolin]

It also supprises me how often the correlation is made between gambling addiction and alcoholism. It is like stating that this patient has a bad cold and that patient has a nasty infection so they are both ill

 

[Guntis]

In my opinion, affiliates who create one article on their websites with Gamstop related info for informational purposes only and without any of casino brands on that page - do a good job!

Those who create articles with specifically optimised content and keywords related to Gamstop and offer a casino listing are disgraceful shithole affiliates!

 

[FruitySlots]

I've spent a lot of time and energy thinking about this issue today and have a couple of passing comments to make.

Firstly - I have to say a big thank you to all the operators who have responded to the email contacts sent out. The response from operators to these activities has been decisive. The operators that have confirmed to us that relationships with the involved parties will be terminated are as follows (in no particular order):

Mansion
Energy
MrQ
Genesis
Karamba
BGO
Dunder
MrPlay
GiG
Frank Affiliates
L&L Europe

Several more have notified us of ongoing investigations into this issue.

It's great to see so many big names taking a zero tollerance approach to this topic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That said, I have considered the FruitySlots issue further and with the additional time do feel that their situation is..... different to that of the other sites identifiesd in this issue.

Their content was much the same as the other sites, but as far as I am aware there were no 'illegal' operators sent traffic anywhere on their site. There was Conquestador. While that it is unquestionably a significant coincidence that one of very few UK licensees not to have signed-up with GamStop is right at the top of the list, it is possible this was simply a coincidence. The lack of other viable partners to send this traffic to make this an SEO strategy that would be unlikely to produce viable results. Would it be smart to try to get traffic from South Africa if you didn't have any operators that would accept South African players? Every other one of these sites has been heavily populated by properly rogue operations - unlicensed with case files of player problems as long as any operator in the industry. They had plenty of sources to dump this traffic to. FruitySlots had one.

I still don't like what's happened here, and I would like to see FruitySlots unequivically accept responsibility for their actions, but I do think a differential has to be made in this case given the facts. As such I've decided that we will not include FruitySlots within our position on the other sites.
I hope the readership here will understand the basis for this climbdown.

TP

I know it seems far to big a coincidence that we were promoting conquestador but I can send and will send Duncan pretty clear evidence that it was a complete and 100% coincidence and that our partnership with them couldn’t have happened at a worst time to make it look like it wasn’t. I will send Duncan the correspondence and evidence to clarify this which shows we had no idea when we started our affiliate relationship with them that they were not on gamstop. I know this is offcourse our fault for not checking but as I stated earlier I genuinely believed every UK licensed casino had to be a gamstop as a fundamental prerequisite to hold a license and had no idea any uk license casino could operate without being on Gamstop.

I’ll leave it with a Duncan if he feels that the evidence should be shared here.

 

[FruitySlots]

I don't believe myself it was coincidence C*********r was prominent,

As mentioned above I will show Duncan evidence supporting us that it really was an ill fated and ill timed coincidence. Hopefully that will settle your doubts and suspicions a little further.

I appreciate the acknowledgment that some people are not labelling us in the same bracket as those affiliates who were affiliated and set up pages and sites for the casinos in question.

 

[colinsunderland]

FWIW I don't believe everything that Fruityslots have said, but I do believe what they have said about conquest....

I can't get my head round that a SEO guy and a content writer would write an article and approve an article, on a subject none knew anything about apparently, and even while writing and approving it, still didn't understand anything about it. I also don't understand why, an affiliate site would have a list of casinos that they had no affiliation with, listed. There are plenty of casinos missing from their current pages, and all that are listed have b-tags or similar, so why would one page have none? Having said that, I believe the page was removed before any public thread was made, which does, if true, back up that it was removed as soon as the owners saw it, rather than a result of pressure from anywhere. People make mistakes and in this case I would err on the side of a mistake, just. The other pages mentioned on here, not though, especially casinomir who refused to remove it.

 

[Supababe]

I know it seems far to big a coincidence that we were promoting conquestador but I can send and will send Duncan pretty clear evidence that it was a complete and 100% coincidence and that our partnership with them couldn’t have happened at a worst time to make it look like it wasn’t. I will send Duncan the correspondence and evidence to clarify this which shows we had no idea when we started our affiliate relationship with them that they were not on gamstop. I know this is offcourse our fault for not checking but as I stated earlier I genuinely believed every UK licensed casino had to be a gamstop as a fundamental prerequisite to hold a license and had no idea any uk license casino could operate without being on Gamstop.

I’ll leave it with a Duncan if he feels that the evidence should be shared here.

In your defence, Conquestador DO have a clear RG section detailing the tools that players may wish to use to block services. See section 5.4 below.
Unfortunately, these are ‘paid’ services as opposed to the ‘GAMSTOP’ option.

Whether this is good enough for either the community here or the UKGC is a different matter x

 

[colinsunderland]

In your defence, Conquestador DO have a clear RG section detailing the tools that players may wish to use to block services. See section 5.4 below.
Unfortunately, these are ‘paid’ services as opposed to the ‘GAMSTOP’ option.

Whether this is good enough for either the community here or the UKGC is a different matter x

View attachment 113065

When they thought I was registered with gamstop they also told me in no uncertain terms, if I opened an account, it would be immediately closed for life.

 

[Scott1baird]

A drug addict, an alcoholic and a gambler all sitting in one room are taken to three containers filled with there choice of addiction, so the drug addict walks to his, the alcoholic walks to his and the gambler walks to his. They all step inside and shut the door, the drug container has enough drugs for one year, the alcohol container has enough drink for one year and the gamblers has a fruit machine with 1m in coins. Four weeks later the containers are opened, the drug addict has died from a drug overdose, the alcoholic has died from alcohol poisoning but when they open the gamblers container he walks out and says "anyone got any money?". Okay this isn't meant as a joke its just story on how different the gamblers mind works in comparison to any other addiction.

 

[goatwack]

Well at least that stopped me typing my "A Christian, a Hindu & a Muslim walk into a Bar" joke

 

[FruitySlots]

I can't get my head round that a SEO guy and a content writer would write an article and approve an article, on a subject none knew anything about apparently, and even while writing and approving it, still didn't understand anything about it. I also don't understand why, an affiliate site would have a list of casinos that they had no affiliation with, listed

Because a huge ton of content writers don’t know the subjects they are writing about but are giving a subject and they basically find pages and re write ( bad seo and not authentic content I know but this happens ).

This sort of backs up the whole point here. Our seo contractor was picking up a whole bunch of gaming related topics and current news pieces and ordered content for it. The fact that the page didn’t have any affiliation to said casinos which as you quite rightly mention is almost unheard of when it comes to affiliation just further reiterates our point that this page was not an intended tactic or strategy on our part whatsoever and got removed upon its finding.

We take full responsibility and accountability for the page being published as it’s our site and our negligence that allowed the page to get posted by giving our seo consultant full access and reigns to create the whole “casino guides” section of the website. We have learnt the most severe lesson from this.