Casino Complaint 32red club rouge FOR LIFE

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just a quick interjection - to the OP: I'm not sure if you read the terms and conditions of this forum properly, but there are some things you need to consider. Posting personal emails without the permission of the sender is inappropriate. Ed Ware is a member here just like you - what if he were to start posting your emails in this thread? I don't think you'd like it. Please respect the privacy of others.

This is not an "us vs them" kind of forum. Casino reps are members here and will be given the respect and courtesy like any other member. Your issue is obviously a personal one - and your badgering of the casino peeps is not only annoying, it puts people off, and makes casino reps reluctant to even get involved.

So the casino doesn't want your business. They had their reasons - so what? Move on and find another casino to play at. You're stressing out and spending way too much energy on this. I'm sure you can find better things to do with your time.
 
Just a quick interjection - to the OP: I'm not sure if you read the terms and conditions of this forum properly, but there are some things you need to consider. Posting personal emails without the permission of the sender is inappropriate. Ed Ware is a member here just like you - what if he were to start posting your emails in this thread? I don't think you'd like it. Please respect the privacy of others.

This is not an "us vs them" kind of forum. Casino reps are members here and will be given the respect and courtesy like any other member. Your issue is obviously a personal one - and your badgering of the casino peeps is not only annoying, it puts people off, and makes casino reps reluctant to even get involved.

So the casino doesn't want your business. They had their reasons - so what? Move on and find another casino to play at. You're stressing out and spending way too much energy on this. I'm sure you can find better things to do with your time.

Hi could you just tell me how to find the t+c's you refer to, i want to make sure i've read the correct ones thanks
 
I did start reading the thread with extreme interest, but must confess to getting bored & skim read once it seemed Op was acting like someone who'd spat their dummy (so apologies if this has been addressed)...

IMO it all seems to hang on the "for life" terminology, but is it defined anywhere what this actually means? Is it for life of player, the life of a specific software release, other...? Some may say this is a dumb question & you'd expect the life of the former to outlast the latter, however if it's not stated implicitly, the statement is open to interpretation and therefore pretty much a moot point IMO.

Op seems to believe that all the T's & C's are invalid as "for life" should mean for life, but where (if anywhere) is "for life" defined?
 
You agreed to these terms when you signed up. Vortran also sent you a PM entitled "Important Information" upon signing up reminding you to read these.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/forum-rules/

Our forum policies:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum-faq/forum-policies/

Yes thanks just wanted to make sure i was dealing with the specific terms (wasn't sure if you had separate ones for the forum etc.)

The specific t+c you are referring to i understand to be : 1.4 - No posting of privileged information. Please remember to respect other's privacy. In the public forum, do not post real names, email addresses, or other personal identifiers that may be considered privileged information; to include company "trade secrets", screenshots of company information, etc. If these items are already publicly available, this shouldn't be a problem. But if these are from private correspondence, or from some user database, discretion is advised.

I actually didn't think i was doing anything wrong here as i didn't consider the email from Ed to be privlidged for the following for the following reasons:

1) It is public knowledge that Ed is Ceo of 32red
2) There was no 'private and confidential' disclaimer in the email.Had this been from a private individual in a personal capacity i would have treaded more carefully but it was from a Company executive from his company email address
3) The content of the email did not include any company 'trade secrets'.It was simply a cordial exchange between two people who had done business over many years with me telling him that he was actually losing money because of a fault within his software and controls and him thanking me - "I am very grateful for the information".
4) The email wasn't altered or taken out of context in any way.

I used my discretion but i am quite happy to email Ed and ask him if he feels i have done him some wrong should you feel it necessary. As you say he his a member here and as such also has the right of reply in the forum.
 
Actually, I was implying the following:

1.18 - Don't be a PITA Members who just don't have a clue on what is socially acceptable, or are just too annoying will have their accounts closed. The administration and moderators of Casinomeister reserve the right to close accounts at our discretion. This may be a public forum that encourages freedom of expression, but it's still our house. Abuse it and lose it.

When you post people's private emails - you are acting like a jerk. Besides, you already broke our terms concerning posting complaints (section 2) which are crystal clear. You want to play the t&c's game? We can do that.
 
I did start reading the thread with extreme interest, but must confess to getting bored & skim read once it seemed Op was acting like someone who'd spat their dummy (so apologies if this has been addressed)...

IMO it all seems to hang on the "for life" terminology, but is it defined anywhere what this actually means? Is it for life of player, the life of a specific software release, other...? Some may say this is a dumb question & you'd expect the life of the former to outlast the latter, however if it's not stated implicitly, the statement is open to interpretation and therefore pretty much a moot point IMO.

Op seems to believe that all the T's & C's are invalid as "for life" should mean for life, but where (if anywhere) is "for life" defined?

I share your frustration.The original post was to identify if other club rouge members had suffered the same fate and invite discussion.However many of the subsequent posts from other members in my view required attention.I haven't spat my dummy out just responded to views i think are incorrect which to my mind is the very essence of a forum and public debate.

In relation to the terminology the definition of moot point is :A debatable question, an issue open to argument; also, an irrelevant question, a matter of no importance
By saying "the statement is open to interpretation and therefore pretty much a moot point IMO." i am assuming (and correct me if i'm wrong) that the context you are using moot in here is 'a matter of no importance' and in that context i would wholeheartedly disagree with you.
In relation to the life issue in the 'specific software release' point i think it would be generally viewed that upgrades wouldn't change the position as it is essentially the same thing even though it has been altered.Having been in business for 20 odd years i have seen many examples an easy one being that if a manufacturer where to enter into an exclusive dealership agreement with an agent for product X and during the course of the agreement and after the agent had spent time and effort promotiong and selling the product the manufacturer decided to change the colour of X and call it X1 for the purpose of negating the original agreement it wouldn't fly,it would be seen for what it was.

Many people including Casinomeister have taken the view so what move on.For my specific scenario that isn't possible as i deem myself to have suffered loss.I don't feel the need to spell it out but someone like the weatherman will get it (a for life contract that carries a positive expectation which has been reneged on before completition, crystallising a loss to the innocent party).That is not something i want to get into here it has been forced out of me by the 'move on' remarks
Anyway as i said i share your frustration at the way the thread has gone but i do think it is an important one as regardless of any of the above it shows a certain attitude by a supplier to a consumer which i don't think reflects fairly on a long standing relationship (i assume most 32red club rouge members would also have a long standing relationship) and THAT is what I wanted the thread to deal with but i have no control over what other people post.
 
Yeah just move on, people have tried and tried to explain to you that the t and c's are VERY important, you just dont like it! No matter how much you harp on you are not going to change anyones opinion, and to be honest the way you are conducting yourself appears a little desperate, so what you wont get the same bonuses or WR that comes with club rouge, but you will still get them they might not be to your liking so close your account and move on.

I dont feel 32 red have done anything wrong here and no matter how many legal precedents you post it still wont convince me
 
Actually, I was implying the following:



When you post people's private emails - you are acting like a jerk. Besides, you already broke our terms concerning posting complaints (section 2) which are crystal clear. You want to play the t&c's game? We can do that.

Again i apologise, i did not realise you were implying that.I was trying to deal specifically with the "Posting personal emails without the permission of the sender is inappropriate. " and clarify that i did not feel the email which i posted of Ed's was personal.If it had said "posting emails without the permission of the sender is inappropriate" i would have taken a different viewpoint.I am sorry for any confusion
 
I am now totally convinced, the reason for mac72's lost CR membership is his annoying behaviour. I can't see any other reason. He's a high roller and they have probably earned a lot of money from him the last 8 years. But, he probably contacted them several times a day which they finally couldn't stand.

@mac72

Convince me I'm wrong, let this go! Go elsewhere with your money, there are probably many casinos who want your business. For a couple of years. ;)
 
I am now totally convinced, the reason for mac72's lost CR membership is his annoying behaviour. I can't see any other reason. He's a high roller and they have probably earned a lot of money from him the last 8 years. But, he probably contacted them several times a day which they finally couldn't stand.

@mac72

Convince me I'm wrong, let this go! Go elsewhere with your money, there are probably many casinos who want your business. For a couple of years. ;)

The reply from 32red stated "in closing XXXX, whilst I understand this is frustrating, the decision to remove your Club Rouge status is final. We perhaps optimistically hope that this hasn’t soured your opinion of the casino too much and will continue to montitor your gaming if you do. ".
If the position was as you say it is it wouldn't be solved by removing CR status (probably actually exasperate it) instead it would be remedied by closing the account (and determining the contract) .That has not happened so i hope that provides clarification for you
 
In relation to the terminology the definition of moot point is :A debatable question, an issue open to argument; also, an irrelevant question, a matter of no importance
By saying "the statement is open to interpretation and therefore pretty much a moot point IMO." i am assuming (and correct me if i'm wrong) that the context you are using moot in here is 'a matter of no importance' and in that context i would wholeheartedly disagree with you.
For sake of clarity (and seeing as you requested correction), you assumed incorrectly… I was using the context that the point is debatable and open to argument. (I thought I clarified this in my original post by asking where “for life” is defined(?)).


In relation to the life issue in the 'specific software release' point i think it would be generally viewed that upgrades wouldn't change the position as it is essentially the same thing even though it has been altered.
Have you seen release notes for any software upgrades that have been undertaken? It would appear you're assuming that not much has been altered, but I'm going to hazard a guess that you are doing so without any basis of fact.


Having been in business for 20 odd years i have seen many examples an easy one being that if a manufacturer where to enter into an exclusive dealership agreement with an agent for product X and during the course of the agreement and after the agent had spent time and effort promotiong and selling the product the manufacturer decided to change the colour of X and call it X1 for the purpose of negating the original agreement it wouldn't fly,it would be seen for what it was.
Irrelevant… In your example, you are implying that 32Red are a manufacturer & you are the dealer/agent & this is not the case. (Not saying you're contradicting yourself, but in your final paragraph you stated that they are a supplier and you are a consumer).

They have (as per their published t’s & c’s) changed the way they choose to deal with their consumers. Remember, you chose to accept these t’s & c’s when you registered with them.


Many people including Casinomeister have taken the view so what move on.For my specific scenario that isn't possible as i deem myself to have suffered loss.
Seriously?! Based on what you’ve shared about your deposits & withdrawals, it would appear that their business stands to be the ones who will be (financially) worse-off.


I don't feel the need to spell it out but someone like the weatherman will get it (a for life contract that carries a positive expectation which has been reneged on before completition, crystallising a loss to the innocent party).
No matter how many times you try to dress-up the definition of what your interpretation of what “for life” means, my previous point still stands… Where is it defined what “for life” means? (You have previously stated you’ve “been in business for 20 odd years” and seen “many examples”, so you will no doubt be acutely aware that agreements will have clear definitions of any key terminology, so as to remove any areas that are open to misinterpretation. If it is not defined, I refer back to my original statement that this is a moot point (i.e. debatable and open to argument)).


That is not something i want to get into here it has been forced out of me by the 'move on' remarks
Anyway as i said i share your frustration at the way the thread has gone but i do think it is an important one as regardless of any of the above it shows a certain attitude by a supplier to a consumer which i don't think reflects fairly on a long standing relationship (i assume most 32red club rouge members would also have a long standing relationship) and THAT is what I wanted the thread to deal with but i have no control over what other people post.


Not wishing to add to anyone’s frustration (inc my own), I will now step back from my keyboard. We are all entitled to an opinion & I appreciate that you’re expressing yours in a way you see fit. However please remember that just because you say something, it doesn’t mean you’re right. (I’m not saying I, or anyone else here is either – we’re offering a view on your situation. You may not like it, but it doesn’t mean we’re wrong).
 
For sake of clarity (and seeing as you requested correction), you assumed incorrectly… I was using the context that the point is debatable and open to argument. (I thought I clarified this in my original post by asking where “for life” is defined(?)).

The way it was written drove me to the 'assumption' that you meant moot to be the end of the matter not the beginning but thanks for correcting my assumption.



Have you seen release notes for any software upgrades that have been undertaken? It would appear you're assuming that not much has been altered, but I'm going to hazard a guess that you are doing so without any basis of fact.

I'm going by the fact that over the years there have been many software updates but the basis of the 'games' haven't changed.Regardless of different slots or video poker being released there could be only one example i can think of where it could possibly be valid and that would be if something was launched that gave a signifigant advantage to the player and before release they stated that it wouldn't form part of any agreement as it was a signifigant change.Anyway with all the software upgrades that have happened my (and i can only speak for myself) club rouge wagering requirements haven't changed so if its not fact its certainly custom and practice

Irrelevant… If I understand your example, you are implying that 32Red are a manufacturer & you are the dealer & this is not the case. You state yourself in your final paragraph that they are a supplier and you are a consumer. They have (as per their published t’s & c’s) changed the way they choose to deal with their consumers. Remember, you chose to accept these t’s & c’s when you registered with them.

No thats not correct.I'm not tying it down to a manufacturer/dealer arrangement only showing you an example of how varying the product slightly the subject of the agreement dosen't necessarily negate the agreement.



Seriously?! Based on what you’ve shared about your deposits & withdrawals, it would appear that their business stands to be the ones who will be (financially) worse-off.

Again completely wrong and not thought through:here are some scenarios where they win:
1) I die one year into the agreement having lost 10k due to variance ,they win
2) I run out of money (for whatever reason) and can't continue and the position at this point is i'm down - they win
3) I have an edge but i'm an addictive gambler , won't matter what happens in that scenario they will always win
4) I'm behind and they go out of business ,they win (not my fault they closed up shop)
i could write these for ages but thats enough , theres no GUARANTEE that either party will win (thats why its fair) and thats why its called gambling



No matter how many times you try to dress-up the definition of what your interpretation of what “for life” means, my previous point still stands… Where is it defined what “for life” means? (You have previously stated you’ve “been in business for 20 odd years” and seen “many examples”, so you will no doubt be acutely aware that agreements will have clear definitions of any key terminology, so as to remove any areas that are open to misinterpretation. If it is not defined, I refer back to my original statement that this is a moot point (i.e. debatable and open to argument)).

Completely agree its open to argument ,if nothing ever was the world would be a better place.
I have an idea and its for everybody to make their own mind up but this post has got quite lengthy and i've already stated what my intention of it was (again i reiterate its not for me to tell anybody what to post). Why instead of debating my argument with 32red don't we just see if any other club rouge member comes forward with the same complaint.As already stated by other members this isn't a court of law but again i stress post away if you feel the need to, its your right.





Not wishing to add to anyone’s frustration (inc my own), I will now step back from my keyboard. We are all entitled to an opinion & I appreciate that you’re expressing yours in a way you see fit. However please remember that just because you say something, it doesn’t mean you’re right. (I’m not saying I, or anyone else here is either – we’re offering a view on your situation. You may not like it, but it doesn’t mean we’re wrong).

I'm not for one minute saying i'm right i stating my opinion and when it is disagreed with trying to qualify it
 
No matter how many times you try to dress-up the definition of what your interpretation of what “for life” means, my previous point still stands… Where is it defined what “for life” means?
For example, I've seen commercials that say you can win a "lifetime" supply of beer. But when you check the fine print it says you get 1 carton of beer every month for a year.
In my opinion; it's false advertising. They make it sound better than it actually is.

I have another one here as well; "lifetime warranty." They mean for the lifetime of the product sold. This I feel is a reasonable definition of the word "lifetime."

And this touches on another topic; the "Till death do us part" discussion. I know at least one (probably two) people that have taken this literally. :eek2:

Then again, I think I'm deviating from the main topic. Sorry!
 
For example, I've seen commercials that say you can win a "life time" supply of beer. But when you check the fine print it says you get 1 carton of beer every month for a year.
In my opinion I think it's false advertising. They make it sound better than it actually is.


Completely correct they kill you in the fine print.However there is no such fine print on the loyalty page stating "your status is set to club rouge for life" (maybe the weatherman can back me up on that one). The terms that everyone trys to refer to which in their opinion covers the casino are:
The casino may, at their sole discretion, limit the eligibility of customers to participate in this promotion, for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users. No correspondence will be entered into. 32Red's decision will be considered final in the event of a dispute.
The casino reserves the right to modify, alter, discontinue or terminate this promotion at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users, using reasonable efforts to provide such notice in advance


Under normal circumstances that would be fine (however it does actually give them the right to discontinue the promotion when your half way through playing a club rouge bonus if you believe its valid so under it you are at their mercy 24/7).The problem is the 'for life'. Because of that no-one here can 100% guarantee that the above terms are enforceable as they would be conflicting terms.Even if you can't qualify 'life' at this stage your too early to be speaking in absolutes and i find their explanation (if you can call it an explanation) for it being there very thin.

And all of that is in my opinion a matter for another day.

I'm going to try and limit my responses (as much as possible) to club rouge members who come forward with the same problem (and so far there haven't been any) from now on as stated previously that was my intent so because i may not reply to every post in future does not mean i agree with its content.If this is a case that i am the only one to have recieved this treatment it is up to you decide how you view it (and some of you obviously view it as perfectly fair) and it is up to me how to deal with it.
 
Completely correct they kill you in the fine print.However there is no such fine print on the loyalty page stating "your status is set to club rouge for life" (maybe the weatherman can back me up on that one). The terms that everyone trys to refer to which in their opinion covers the casino are:
The casino may, at their sole discretion, limit the eligibility of customers to participate in this promotion, for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users. No correspondence will be entered into. 32Red's decision will be considered final in the event of a dispute.
The casino reserves the right to modify, alter, discontinue or terminate this promotion at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users, using reasonable efforts to provide such notice in advance


Under normal circumstances that would be fine (however it does actually give them the right to discontinue the promotion when your half way through playing a club rouge bonus if you believe its valid so under it you are at their mercy 24/7).The problem is the 'for life'. Because of that no-one here can 100% guarantee that the above terms are enforceable as they would be conflicting terms.Even if you can't qualify 'life' at this stage your too early to be speaking in absolutes and i find their explanation (if you can call it an explanation) for it being there very thin.

And all of that is in my opinion a matter for another day.

I'm going to try and limit my responses (as much as possible) to club rouge members who come forward with the same problem (and so far there haven't been any) from now on as stated previously that was my intent so because i may not reply to every post in future does not mean i agree with its content.If this is a case that i am the only one to have recieved this treatment it is up to you decide how you view it (and some of you obviously view it as perfectly fair) and it is up to me how to deal with it.

Didn't you get told that it would only come into effect next month?

If so, they would not have terminated the deal for any "dish of the day", as these promotions only last for one day.

Are you mad because your birthday is just after the date of booting?

They have not closed your account, but it seems pretty clear that it's your gameplay that has been a deciding factor in the decision, as they have twice indicated that you will be monitored for the following quarter on Gold tier, and then reviewed again as per Gold tier terms for possible Club Rouge status.

As for the intent, to create discussion, it seems that so far other members of Club Rouge who are also CM members have yet to receive this email, or have received it and are not that bothered. Clearly, more than one player has received it, so at least it's not really a direct personal "insult" to yourself.

Your response that you will jump ship to the competition is the CORRECT one, this is how businesses are taught by their customers what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't. You may well be able to negotiate a VIP deal with a competitor based on your stats at 32Red. You may even end up with a BETTER deal than you managed to get whilst still in Club Rouge.

If you look at most casino websites, beyond the front pages hosting the regular new player promotions, you will often find that they are willing to negotiate immediate VIP entry to the "right players", and often provide an email address such that players who feel they are the "right ones" can open negotiations.
 
Didn't you get told that it would only come into effect next month?

If so, they would not have terminated the deal for any "dish of the day", as these promotions only last for one day.

Are you mad because your birthday is just after the date of booting?

They have not closed your account, but it seems pretty clear that it's your gameplay that has been a deciding factor in the decision, as they have twice indicated that you will be monitored for the following quarter on Gold tier, and then reviewed again as per Gold tier terms for possible Club Rouge status.

As for the intent, to create discussion, it seems that so far other members of Club Rouge who are also CM members have yet to receive this email, or have received it and are not that bothered. Clearly, more than one player has received it, so at least it's not really a direct personal "insult" to yourself.

Your response that you will jump ship to the competition is the CORRECT one, this is how businesses are taught by their customers what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't. You may well be able to negotiate a VIP deal with a competitor based on your stats at 32Red. You may even end up with a BETTER deal than you managed to get whilst still in Club Rouge.

If you look at most casino websites, beyond the front pages hosting the regular new player promotions, you will often find that they are willing to negotiate immediate VIP entry to the "right players", and often provide an email address such that players who feel they are the "right ones" can open negotiations.

sorry vinyl where is my dob visible on this site?
they did say it would come into effect next month.I say there is no need to vary the contract it is for life(which has already been the subject of too much debate)
 
@ mac72 I have only read about 2 posts. But, I'm happy to read the entire thread and throw in my 2 cents.
I'm not club rouge and probably never will be so I might be able to give a balanced opinion.
 
Mac, i totally agreed with you... But in all honesty, i think you're getting to far, why do you spend so much of your time now for this? All you're getting out of it is maybe your club rouge status back, but what will it help? Just look for another casino that will treat you better regarding the loyalty. I would do the same... If i get this e-mail i would send a mail back to get explanation and if they don't think they want to have you back, look for another casino. There are quite a few reliable mg's out there.

But IMHO you're not getting further here, their decision was final.... Again, i agree with your frustrtation, but this is going nowhere..... I will log-in after my vacation to check if i'm still club rouge, hope so :))
 
sorry vinyl where is my dob visible on this site?
they did say it would come into effect next month.I say there is no need to vary the contract it is for life(which has already been the subject of too much debate)

It isn't, but it has touched a nerve so presumably the 200% up to £500 you will lose out on is irritating in the extreme.

Besides, they HAVE backtracked. You can have your Club Rouge back as per original "for life". The message you have used to justify your position was the "Club Rouge for life" that appeared in your status. The message said nothing about "Enhanced dish of the day for life", as this is simply the latest of a series of promotions that has been run for both regular and Club Rouge members.

Therefore, by your own argument, if they concede the point and let you remain Club Rouge "for life", but no longer invite you to specific promotions that are applicable to SOME players, they have still fulfilled the "Club Rouge for life" element of the contract, and still abided by other terms that govern individual promotions where it has NEVER been advertised as "for life".

If they terminate the long running Dish of the Day, and start something new, and don't send you the invite, then you can't even argue that your original invite & subsequent contract for Dish of the Day has been breached.

ALL promotions begin with an email invite, and it is stated that only players sent the invite are eligible. This is completely separate from the loyalty system, including Club Rouge. It's now also enforced because the claim system is in the lobby, and is tied to the eligibility database, so if you are not eligible, you just get the standard "mobile play" page when you log in, rather than the offer & claim page.

It has already been revealed that there are differing levels and deals within Club Rouge, so they would be doing nothing new by having a Club Rouge for you that was geared for your preference for VP and Roulette, yet also gave the casino a fair chance to win from the bonuses offered.

So far, no boot email for me, even though I probably deserve one for those three monster hits:D
 
It isn't, but it has touched a nerve so presumably the 200% up to £500 you will lose out on is irritating in the extreme.

Besides, they HAVE backtracked. You can have your Club Rouge back as per original "for life". The message you have used to justify your position was the "Club Rouge for life" that appeared in your status. The message said nothing about "Enhanced dish of the day for life", as this is simply the latest of a series of promotions that has been run for both regular and Club Rouge members.

Therefore, by your own argument, if they concede the point and let you remain Club Rouge "for life", but no longer invite you to specific promotions that are applicable to SOME players, they have still fulfilled the "Club Rouge for life" element of the contract, and still abided by other terms that govern individual promotions where it has NEVER been advertised as "for life".

If they terminate the long running Dish of the Day, and start something new, and don't send you the invite, then you can't even argue that your original invite & subsequent contract for Dish of the Day has been breached.

ALL promotions begin with an email invite, and it is stated that only players sent the invite are eligible. This is completely separate from the loyalty system, including Club Rouge. It's now also enforced because the claim system is in the lobby, and is tied to the eligibility database, so if you are not eligible, you just get the standard "mobile play" page when you log in, rather than the offer & claim page.

It has already been revealed that there are differing levels and deals within Club Rouge, so they would be doing nothing new by having a Club Rouge for you that was geared for your preference for VP and Roulette, yet also gave the casino a fair chance to win from the bonuses offered.

So far, no boot email for me, even though I probably deserve one for those three monster hits:D

Thats why i asked its isn't for months so i couldn't understand where you got it from.
I'll do this short and sweet short of time,my situation may be slightly different to most.At the outset when i started dealing with 32red and they offered me the EMB which was originally 1k a month it was a stipulation of mine that i wasn't going to move from where i was to get something that would be removed later (you understand from my posting that i'm pretty thorough with stuff like this).I was assured that it would always be on my account regardless of play,i could deposit some months or not, play when i liked at whatever level(I did the deal over the phone and can't remember if i got an email hence my sars request but a deal is a deal verbal or not).I took them at their word and the reason i remember it clearly was that was my most major concern as i didn't want to lose loyalty status elsewhere and then them take it off and have nothing. I moved the majority of my business and that deal was renegotiated to a 2k monthly bonus at a later date.I provided the forum with the letter from them that was sent removing the EMB and again i remember clearly walking down the road and talking (well maybe screaming a bit) at jonathan about them trying now to renege on the deal.For a while before the letter i dont think there was a daily bonus but rather a sporadic one which they let me claim on top of my EMB.The reasoning i was given was that they had introduced a daily bonus but actually nothing had changed over the course of the month in relation to what i would receive in bonus apart from my wagering requirement which on my EMB had been set to either 10 or 20 times and mark from 32 red can email me about that so i can clarify instead of spending his time 'liking' silly youtube videos while not putting any actual input into the complaint (previously i would have played the 2k match at 12.01am on the 1st of the month, i probably got a bit of an advantage out of it but then they had a chance to get it back and more over the course of the month) and the fact that i would actually get a touch more than the 2k match but it would be spread over the whole month instead of me being able to claim it in one go.Had this variation not included a match of at least the same amount i would have had no hesitation in taking legal action at that point and i told Jonathan that in no uncertain terms,the conversation was quite heated.However i don't actually consider myself an OVERALL advantage player (and let me clarify i know its in my favour playing VP on those bonus terms but it may be misleading to say 75-25 Vp and Roulette as my roulette staking is high and when i play roulette i'm either going to win big or lose my shirt, i just view the VP as a bit of a nixer but a nixer i agreed and as far as i'm concerned had an undertaking on).
So the deal continued at probably just over 2k a month in matches at the 30times wagering for years and i was happy enough.And then i get the email the subject of this thread out of the blue with no forewarning from someone i never even heard of at 32red (this steven bowler is only there 3mths odd) and giving no explanation other than its a 'business decision'.It was a complete shock and the way it was done annoyed me deeply.Why should i have to accept another variation backwards (600 times wagering on VP instead of 30,no 200% birthday bonus etc.) when nothing had ever changed on my end and we had a deal in place.I don't play for pennies and had taken a chance with ED and 32red when they were only getting going right and it appears my reward for that loyalty is to be continually cut and taken for a mug.I emailed ED as soon as i got the email with the subject line "THIS IS F@@@ING SHITE" and never got a response which led me in my annoyance to the Forum.
The best deals you ever do are the ones where you don't have to rely on T+C's. I've done deals with Corporates throughtout my career where you have to dot every I and cross every T or your screwed and i've done 7 and 8 figure deals with guys from smaller operations on a handshake and not a piece of paper changing hands.I was involved in litigation every year with the former and not once with the latter.I understand the value of dealing with people and to listen to some of the tripe that is spewed on this forum about me being hard and difficult to deal with by people who don't even take the time to read/digest the information available to them, never mind not knowing the full facts just gets me annoyed.It is for that reason this is my last post.It is for all of the above why i rebuked mark from 32red's offer of a varied offer.I don't feel it was generous or fair at all and i am just disgusted that people who had my patronage for so long and with who i enjoyed a relativley friendly business relationship with could go this way on me.As i said before the good things that i saw in 32red have been eroded away and i should of seen the warning signs with the removal of the weekend ewallet cashouts and the way it was handled.
If anybody knows of an operator who is what 32red used to be perhaps you will post with their info and why you feel they would suit me. I would certainly appreciate it.I will enjoy reading your feedback but thats me done.If nobody else got letters yet i hope they don't come but i do think you should take some warning from my experience and if there are people like me out there who like to negotiate 'specials' i suggest you get it all down on paper so you are always comfortable with your position.
Have luck at the tables whatever your game and remember on the bad days , the guy that never lost nothing never made anything
LOL just previewed the post neither short or sweet!
 
I read every post in detail. Here are my thoughts as I was reading…

Jackpot Capital did a similar thing. See: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/jackpot-capitals-new-vip-program-wtf.64268/?t=64268
I wish Laurie luck in that, but I think it’s futile. There’s not much that can be done about it I’m sorry to say. Unless I’m mistaken there is a difference here; Jackpot Capital never said “…for life.”

This is quite frankly ridiculous and i see they have changed the club rouge for life wording to 'you current tier is club rouge'
I see the reasoning given by Jonathan was: “The ‘for life’ wording displayed in the loyalty section was part of the mechanics of the loyalty software we brought in back in February 2012.”
Even if it was the “mechanics of the loyalty software…” 32Red are still somewhat responsible for the “…for life” statement.

Later in the thread…
... there was a message in the lobby saying 'Tier for life' which we had no control over.
I don’t believe that. You could have easily sent a disclaimer email to recipients of the club rouge promotion clearly explaining that it’s a technical issue. That, and you could have done many other things to make it clearer. 32Red are still largely responsible for that statement.

… but we are happy that the T&C covered any confusion this may have brought.
Clearly, that is not the case as OP seems quite confused about it.
Even with the T&C correcting the ‘for life’ statement everyone would agree that it’s not ideal to have conflicting information and because of that I think 32Red have done a ‘little wrong.’
In these scenarios it’s appropriate to show a little remorse. I scoured the thread and could not find one word of remorse from 32Red about the conflicting information.

They have had my patronage on the basis that i had this status guaranteed...
This speaks quite loudly as well. OP deposited extra at this casino because of the “…for life” statement.

3.The casino may, at their sole discretion, limit the eligibility of customers to participate in this promotion, for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users. No correspondence will be entered into. 32Red's decision will be considered final in the event of a dispute.
4.The casino reserves the right to modify, alter, discontinue or terminate this promotion at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users, using reasonable efforts to provide such notice in advance.
These terms specifically refer to the club rogue status. The terms essentially say that they can take away the ‘for life’ part of club rouge. But, the problem is it’s a contradiction. In one section 32Red are saying it’s for life and in another section they are saying they can take it away. The T&C should be believed over what it says elsewhere because the T&C holds more authority.

You are mistaken and to take it to an extreme level if one of the terms was 'if you win too much we reserve the right to come to your house and shoot you' are you saying that just because they write it they have an entitlement to carry it through? LOL
My views on this subject are still developing but I suspect all T&C must be reasonable because of the reason above. I’m not sure to be honest if the terms are reasonable in this case, but I suspect they are.
Here is a comment I made about unreasonable T&C recently in a different thread: “…I sometimes think that the idea of casinos having whatever terms and conditions they want is incorrect.”


When you get conflicting information in life always choose the one with the greater “evidence;” e.g. believe what’s in print over what’s said, believe the manager over the worker, and in this case believe the T&C over what it says in the lobby.
I don’t see any chance in arguing that you believed what it said in the lobby and that stops the false advertising argument as well.
The only hope I see is in the “unreasonable T&C” argument and because I don’t understand it I can’t comment on it. I suspect it wont lead anywhere though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Meister Ratings

Back
Top