XXLclub casino disappears with players' money!

[vinylweatherman]

I clearly accept the arch critic addressed to XXL Club. The move to an independent casino wasn't planed like you said but we decided as a group to make this move, due to different opinions about how things were handled on a daily basis.

I would like to clarify that Playtech as a company as absolutely nothing to do with what happened and that the casino owners decided to go a different way, this after analyzing in details how the casino was running.

Please keep in mind that our main market as always been Russia and will remain Russia. Due to Russian law changes we had to rapidly make structural changes so not to risk having the B&M casinos that are part of the same group closed.

Honestly I also don't think that we need to be saved by anyone! I like to participate in this forum as the members are well informed, interesting and knowledgeable but casinomeister is only representing a infinite small part of our target market and will only have a small impact on our global revenue.

Nevertheless one unpaid player is one too much and we need to correct this.

This looks like Russia changed the law, and the owners decided to "jump ship", leaving everyone in the lurch. This "move" was more of a scramble to get things restructured to adhere to the new laws, get hold of more investors to "own" the casino, and engage a new processor. At the same time, the old processor also "jumped ship" and refused to complete the payments that had already been placed in their system, but didn't bother to tell the management at XXLClub. SOME players were clearly not kept up to date on what was happening, as these are the ones who have posted here. The WEBSITE could also have been used to carry a message as to the current status of the move, and by changing and dating this status message regularly, players could see that the casino was still a currently running entity.

The comment about being unable to monitor all the forums is true, no-one could be expected to keep on top of them all, but where you are an active member, such as here, a sudden 2 month silence DOES get interpreted negatively, it would not have been hard to keep up to date with forums you participate in.

There may not be too many Russian players here, but I am sure they have their own forums, and may very well be discussing this 3 month hiatus there, but in Russian. If any of these Russian players have been left owed money, this has probably also been aired to the Russian customer base.

It would have been better to ensure ALL outstanding payments had been made BEFORE this temporary 3 month closure, it was unpaid players that started this thread, not those complaining they could no longer open new accounts, and/or deposit.

After 3 months, there is also the danger that current players have simply moved on, they are hardly likely to just give up playing while they wait for an unspecified amount of time to get back into XXLClub, there are other offerings for the Russian market.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

hi xxl club
i guess i can expect my money now then.

i sincerely hope so

Jan Trixa

Hi Trixa

Please PM me your XXL Club account.

Thanks
Frank

 

[nottsccole]

I am owed 1804.

I sent a private message to XXLClub's rep.

I've been told repeatedly by customer service that I would be paid as soon as the technical problems with XXLClub are resolved. Although, their customer service has not responded to any of my emails in at least two weeks. The rep on this forum told me in a PM that I was on Playtech's bonus banned list. Now I have a few casino accounts, with Playtech, and I've gotten bonuses on more or less all of them, but I doubt that is true that I am completely banned, I get bonus offers frequently for my accounts on Bet365 and a few other sites as well.

Anyway, XXLClub's response was that because I apparently appear on this list, he would "try" to "at least" get me back my deposit. With the obvious implication that he would be thieving my winnings after they've already been delayed several weeks.

Not very reassuring. I'll let you know if I actually get paid, but until then I would definitely avoid the casino at all costs.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

I am owed 1804.

I sent a private message to XXLClub's rep.

I've been told repeatedly by customer service that I would be paid as soon as the technical problems with XXLClub are resolved. Although, their customer service has not responded to any of my emails in at least two weeks. The rep on this forum told me in a PM that I was on Playtech's bonus banned list. Now I have a few casino accounts, with Playtech, and I've gotten bonuses on more or less all of them, but I doubt that is true that I am completely banned, I get bonus offers frequently for my accounts on Bet365 and a few other sites as well.

Anyway, XXLClub's response was that because I apparently appear on this list, he would "try" to "at least" get me back my deposit. With the obvious implication that he would be thieving my winnings after they've already been delayed several weeks.

Not very reassuring. I'll let you know if I actually get paid, but until then I would definitely avoid the casino at all costs.

You know exactly that your playing behavior is typical for bonus abusing and you will for sure get your deposit back. Casinos can decide to lift your sanction or you were flagged on the Playtech platform at a later date.

By the way three of the players that are complaining here and that have PMed me for withdrawals are flagged as bonus abuser on the playtech platform or even flagged for fraud.

The problem is always the same most of the time players posting complains in the forum are very often blocked for fraud or flagged as bonus abuser.

How to best handle bonus abuser is a very tricky task but slowly and surely we will make full right of our T&C to minimize our exposure to bonus abusers.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

9.8 We reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to offer and advertise from time to time promotions, bonuses or other special offers and each such offer will be subject to specific terms and conditions which will be valid for a limited period of time. In connection with the specific terms of the above promotions, bonus and special offers, we further reserve the right to withhold any withdrawal amount from your account which will be in excess of your original deposit. In addition, we reserve the right to withhold or otherwise decline or reverse any pay-out or winning amount or amend any policy in the event that we suspect that you are abusing or attempting to abuse any of the following: (i) bonuses; (ii) other promotions; or (iii) specific policy or rules determined in respect of an existing game or a new game.

For over a year we have been paying bonus abusers without further investigation but this will definitely come to an end.

Fair gaming should also apply to players and not only to operators at least this is my point of view.

I honestly believe that honest players will be better of not to take any bonuses and get a higher comp ratio and kickback bonuses without any restrictions.

We are now finalizing a new bonus concept that will get rid of signup bonuses. We will take into account that our new player signup rate will drop but as a counterpart our retention rate will dramatically improve. I'm sure this will be the way the online gambling industry will head in the near future. Deposits bonuses only create major problems for players and operators and it's just not worse it!

 

[sdaddy]

For over a year we have been paying bonus abusers without further investigation but this will definitely come to an end.

Fair gaming should also apply to players and not only to operators at least this is my point of view.

I honestly believe that honest players will be better of not to take any bonuses and get a higher comp ratio and kickback bonuses without any restrictions.

We are now finalizing a new bonus concept that will get rid of signup bonuses. We will take into account that our new player signup rate will drop but as a counterpart our retention rate will dramatically improve. I'm sure this will be the way the online gambling industry will head in the near future. Deposits bonuses only create major problems for players and operators and it's just not worse it!

So why not just eliminate your problem by implementing the new bonus structure?

Addressing the issue by using subjective "bonus abuse" criteria to confiscate winnings, as done in these recent cases, is not going to look good in the eyes of many players.

 

[nottsccole]

So why not just eliminate your problem by implementing the new bonus structure?

Addressing the issue by using subjective "bonus abuse" criteria to confiscate winnings, as done in these recent cases, is not going to look good in the eyes of many players.

Especially after disappearing for a few weeks and not responding to emails. For what it's worth, I am definitely not bonus banned. I talked to live chat at a casino I still play at regularly that is on playtech and requested a small deposit bonus and was able to get one with relative ease (they had a holiday promotion going on so good timing).

On a sidenote, I reread the message from the rep, and I need to make an apology to him because I misinterpreted what he was saying and I want to correct that. I thought he was saying he would see what could be done about sending my deposit to me, and he actually said I would "at least" get my deposit back and he would see what can be done about my winnings, so I feel much more positive about seeing my cashout. Apologies for that mistake, XXL rep, and for the tone I took because I thought you were saying nothing was going to get fixed instead of what on a reread seems like you are going to push for my cashout plus winnings to get processed.

I'll keep you guys posted on what happens with my cashout as I get more information.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It does not matter if you are on the banned list, they gave the bonus, and provided you met the terms and conditions, they must play you, and THEN ban you for further promotions.

I have seen their terms, and it is IMPOSSIBLE to "abuse" their bonus WITHOUT breaching the excluded games rule and placing a huge bet with your entire bankroll at the beginning of the game.

The rep has explained before that Playtech have absolutely NOTHING to do with the XXLClub situation, therefore any decision about payment also has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Playtech.

The rep has made an accusation here, and had better be able to back it up with evidence should this go to dispute, or it should be regarded as libel.

I have little confidence that this will all come right in the forseeable future, Timescales for this move have been repeatedly put back. Promises of 2 weeks were made early on, and it has now been three months, with the latest date nearly a month away.

While the rep says these "banned" players should have opted for a higher comps rate rather than bonuses, but was this option actually on offer at the time they played?

Since this casino's intended market is Russia, perhaps we should leave it that way, as they like it so much, and only play there if we are Russian.

 

[hakapuku]

I am afraid that this xxlclub has no intention to pay anybody. Look at their rep- he comes with accusations right from the start. And ,offcourse, he uses the most undefinable definition in this industry: bonus abuse. Anybody who wins with the bonus is a bonus abuser. We know that.

 

[hakapuku]

I am owed 1804.

I sent a private message to XXLClub's rep.

I've been told repeatedly by customer service that I would be paid as soon as the technical problems with XXLClub are resolved. Although, their customer service has not responded to any of my emails in at least two weeks. The rep on this forum told me in a PM that I was on Playtech's bonus banned list. Now I have a few casino accounts, with Playtech, and I've gotten bonuses on more or less all of them, but I doubt that is true that I am completely banned, I get bonus offers frequently for my accounts on Bet365 and a few other sites as well.

Anyway, XXLClub's response was that because I apparently appear on this list, he would "try" to "at least" get me back my deposit. With the obvious implication that he would be thieving my winnings after they've already been delayed several weeks.

Not very reassuring. I'll let you know if I actually get paid, but until then I would definitely avoid the casino at all costs.

you must be paid in full! If you are banned from receiving bonuses at playtech casinos that doesn't mean that you are not eligible to receive the winnings from the bonuses that you have already received. It is absolute bullshit! As I told already, xxl club has no intention to pay , they are roguesters!

 

[phynqster]

It is very funny hearing the term bonus abuser, since I believe I came from the casino that coined that phrase. When we originally labeled players as bonus abusers, it was a way of identifying the free chippers, who would constantly beg for free chips and huge bonuses and were taking up the majority of the sales reps time. I than changed the term to advantage player, which is what we are talking about here. An advantage player is just that someone looking for an advantage. I can honestly say that yes I identified a number of those players including entire Countries (LOL), but made sure every one was paid!! Usually paid them very slowly, too frustrate them, but also to make sure their credit card cleared the bank before I was sending them what amounted to cash, and made them jump through hoops, hell I was an Advantage Manager hoping they would give in and just give up, but I felt they were taking advantage of me I would take advantage of them. After they were finally paid in full, that is when their accounts were closed to make sure it did not happen again. Also I want to point out I loved to encourage the bonuses that advantage players would take early in their history with us, because I could identify those players early and it was a lot easier paying $100.00 right than , than waiting for the player to become a regular than popping me for 5 or $10,000.00 one day. And that does happen if a casino does not monitor their players.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

I didn't really wanted to raise the bonus abuser issues in the same thread so not to change the subject of this thread and focus on paying the players we owe money to.

Also I feel that it was worse mentioning and it's not a coincidence that the biggest complain in the forum are coming not from our regular players but from new one time depositors one time forum posters that clearly abuse the welcome bonus from playtech casinos.

By the way we are not stealing any $ from any account as long as we refund a player deposit. The winnings might get confiscated as they were won in brake of our T&C. The word stealing is not appropriate in this relation.

And let me reassure here that all players especially our loyal players will get paid no regular winnings will be confiscated and winnings will be paid in full.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I didn't really wanted to raise the bonus abuser issues in the same thread so not to change the subject of this thread and focus on paying the players we owe money to.

Also I feel that it was worse mentioning and it's not a coincidence that the biggest complain in the forum are coming not from our regular players but from new one time depositors one time forum posters that clearly abuse the welcome bonus from playtech casinos.

By the way we are not stealing any $ from any account as long as we refund a player deposit. The winnings might get confiscated as they were won in brake of our T&C. The word stealing is not appropriate in this relation.
And let me reassure here that all players especially our loyal players will get paid no regular winnings will be confiscated and winnings will be paid in full.

That all depends on how you define what is "abuse" and what is simply good playing style within the terms and conditions.

If a player bets all on a big bet that is in the list of excluded games, then grinds WR, that can be considered "bonus HUNTING", and would be a breach of your terms by playing an excluded game.

If, however, the player played only the games allowed with the bonus, but had a good run & the sense to withdraw while ahead, but having completed WR, then confiscation of winnings would be reneging on a valid bet, what is meant by "stealing" by the casino in this context.
If the bonuses are non-cashable as with many Playtech offerings, then the only way they can be manipulated is by placing a single large bet on a 50/50 game and grinding out WR if the bet wins.
If players open more than one account to take more bonuses than allowed, this would also be justification for removal of winnings, provided you can prove the case.
Many casinos confuse "bonus abuse" with skillful play, they are NOT the same, and any casino that voids winnings simply because a player played well, but within the terms of the offer, is "stealing", or reneging on a bet - something that in the days of the wild west in the USA would have got you shot!

 

[XXLClubCasino]

That all depends on how you define what is "abuse" and what is simply good playing style within the terms and conditions.

If a player bets all on a big bet that is in the list of excluded games, then grinds WR, that can be considered "bonus HUNTING", and would be a breach of your terms by playing an excluded game.

If, however, the player played only the games allowed with the bonus, but had a good run & the sense to withdraw while ahead, but having completed WR, then confiscation of winnings would be reneging on a valid bet, what is meant by "stealing" by the casino in this context.
If the bonuses are non-cashable as with many Playtech offerings, then the only way they can be manipulated is by placing a single large bet on a 50/50 game and grinding out WR if the bet wins.
If players open more than one account to take more bonuses than allowed, this would also be justification for removal of winnings, provided you can prove the case.
Many casinos confuse "bonus abuse" with skillful play, they are NOT the same, and any casino that voids winnings simply because a player played well, but within the terms of the offer, is "stealing", or reneging on a bet - something that in the days of the wild west in the USA would have got you shot!

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

As all 50 or more playtech casinos all offers almost the same games the excuse given by most bonus abusers "I just wanted to test other games or another casino" is not a valid argument.

 

[chuchu59]

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

As all 50 or more playtech casinos all offers almost the same games the excuse given by most bonus abusers "I just wanted to test other games or another casino" is not a valid argument.

Frank,

If it can be proved that the player had opened multiple accounts and obtained more than 1 signup bonus at the same casino, I agree that this is 'bonus abuse' in the absolute sense and confiscation of winnings is understandable. However, if there is nothing in the Terms and Conditions stating that one is not eligible for a signup bonus even if he had obtained them from other Playtechs before, he is playing legitmately and once bets are placed, the player should be paid if he won. mind you, he could have lost just as easily. These are the players that casinos dont want but unless there is fraud involved the casino should pay and ban him if it thinks fit. Before the Playtech ban on HK players, I had played at nearly all Playtech casinos and gotten signup bonuses from all of them. There were a half a dozen where I won and never went back. Well, just didnt feel like I wanted to play there anymore. No other reasons.

I understand that many casinos have a gripe against these 'advantage players' as they erode your profit margins but at the same time almost all of them are more intent on attracting new players with 100% or more singup bonuses whereas the Comp ratio is a measly 1:1000 and even worse for MG casinos due to their EZ bonus system. I hope that you will understand that while you are uncomfortable with paying these guys, the damage to reputation will be far worse especially since you are now geared more towards player retention. Just pay them, suffer the loss in the short term and start all over again.

 

[sdaddy]

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

Well if bonus abusing by your players is very easy to spot, then it should be easy to write specific rules which explain what type of play is prohibited. You don't like players making big bets after receiving the bonus? Then put in a rule saying bets over a certain amount, relative to the original deposit, are prohibited. You don't like players who just wager the minimum wagering requirement? Then you need to increase your WRs.

You even said yourself that you are in the process of implementing a new bonus structure to address the problem. You would do much better to focus your efforts there. What doesn't sit well with players is when a casino resorts to an ambiguous bonus abuse policy curtail the type of play it deems undesirable. It sends a message that the casino will not be up front with its players about how it intends to treat them.

By the way we are not stealing any $ from any account as long as we refund a player deposit. The winnings might get confiscated as they were won in brake of our T&C. The word stealing is not appropriate in this relation.

I think many players would beg to differ on this point. Do you also refund the deposits of identified bonus abusers who lose? I doubt it. So essentially you're taking a group of players and voiding all their winning bets but accepting the losing ones. That is a very punitive and unfair action.

 

[BBKPoker]

I didn't really wanted to raise the bonus abuser issues in the same thread so not to change the subject of this thread and focus on paying the players we owe money to.

Also I feel that it was worse mentioning and it's not a coincidence that the biggest complain in the forum are coming not from our regular players but from new one time depositors one time forum posters that clearly abuse the welcome bonus from playtech casinos.

By the way we are not stealing any $ from any account as long as we refund a player deposit. The winnings might get confiscated as they were won in brake of our T&C. The word stealing is not appropriate in this relation.

And let me reassure here that all players especially our loyal players will get paid no regular winnings will be confiscated and winnings will be paid in full.

You're right. You aren't stealing $.

You ARE however stealing .

 

[BBKPoker]

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino.

Then change your bonus instead of enforcing an obviously arbitrary clause. You say you are moving to a loyalty bonus and eliminating your signup bonus anyway. Considering you decided to disappear out of nowhere without advising your players or affiliates you might help your reputation (which is pretty damaged at this point) by fixing your outstanding complaints and then switching to your "safe" promotion, whatever that might be. The rest of us just see a casino that pulls a magical disappearing act and then makes accusations of bonus abusing towards the players that they owe payments and that sets off warning bells for very obvious reasons. It's nothing we haven't seen before by several other casinos that have gone under without paying their players. From a business perspective, I think it makes sense to pay all the outstanding players their full winnings prior to changing yourself over to whatever program you plan on using in the future.

 

[winbig]

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

As all 50 or more playtech casinos all offers almost the same games the excuse given by most bonus abusers "I just wanted to test other games or another casino" is not a valid argument.

Since when does bonus HUNTING fall under abuse? If YOUR CASINO wants to offer a generous SUB, damn straight I'm going to take it. Whether or not I decide to keep playing at your casino after I've finished is UP TO ME, NOT you. Getting paid based solely on whether or not I "exhibit" bonus HUNTING behaviors is complete BS. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

You're the ones offering the bonuses, not the other way around. If you don't want to pay out winnings and cry "abuse", then quit offering bonuses!

If you want more loyal players, then offer a non-bonus-hunter|abuser-friendly loyalty program (read: generous comps based on extended play), and not such a "generous" signup bonus offer. To sum it up: reward a player more for their ongoing loyalty, not their new business.


I believe XXLClub and us CM members have had this exact same conversation in the past, and under the same circumstances (different players involved, of course). If I wasn't so tired, I'd find the thread.

The bottom line is, if a player has an advantage over the bonus, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT, NOT THEIRS. If they follow the T&C to the "T", PAY THEM. If they find a loophole, tough sh!t. PAY THEM and then close the loophole...ban them from FUTURE bonuses....but still, PAY THEM.


Also look at it from a different perspective. A millionaire decides to dress like a bum and go out and buy a new car (and pay cash for it). Where do you think he's going to purchase this car? Certainly not the car lots that treat him like crap (if they even wait on him)! He's going to buy a car from the lot that treats him with respect, not judging him by his looks.

Moral of the story: How many potentially loyal players have you burned by claiming bonus "abuse|hunting", and voiding their winnings? Think about it.

 

[hakapuku]

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

As all 50 or more playtech casinos all offers almost the same games the excuse given by most bonus abusers "I just wanted to test other games or another casino" is not a valid argument.

This is a hypocricy! Bonuses at online casinos are what all this online gambling business is built on! All online casinos, also all playtech casinos, advertise their bonuses whatever way they can! There is no need to hunt for the bonuses: casinos hunt for players online offering them the bonuses! And when one comes across these bonuses and starts to play them- then ugly roguesters among the online casinos (not all of them, offcourse) prepare the trap for the online gambler. Let's say somebody played at one playtech casino ,named X, with the bonus and lost his 100 euro deposit. After some time he gets one more offer by email from the X casino's sister casino. He plays and loses 200 euro deposit. Meanwhile offerings from the playtech casinos keep coming. And the person deposits and deposits. Pay attention- casinos don't refuse the bonuses- they award it. So , let's say , after losing 600 euro at 5 playtech casinos this person deposits one more time , this time at XXLCLUB casino and...booom...he wins 700 euro! Now his total balance with playtech casinos is 100 euro plus!. The player is happy! And then he cashes out and the next day he gets an email informing him that he is a bonus abuser at several playtech casinos and he is a thief so he will not get his winnings in no way! "We are such a good casino that we are ready to pay your deposit back to you. Say thank you!". And now the total balance of that player with all playtech casinos is MINUS 600 euro!. Who is a real abuser and thief in this typical scenario? Casinos or a gambler who was seduced by thousands of bonus offers and then left with his pocket empty!???

P/S. Actually this case with XXLCLUBCASINO is not about bonus abuse or something - it is about casino that tries to run away with the players money. The fact that Xxl's rep tries to use the "bonus abuse" issue to justify (at least in part) this big stealing and disappearing act only proves what a bullshit this "bonus abuse" stuff is. In other words: claiming the bonus abuse is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Considering you decided to disappear out of nowhere without advising your players or affiliates you might help your reputation (which is pretty damaged at this point) by fixing your outstanding complaints and then switching to your "safe" promotion, whatever that might be.

I don't know were you read that we decided to disappear! All our players were informed that due to technical issues with the payment processor we couldn't proceed their payment at that time, dot.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Whether or not I decide to keep playing at your casino after I've finished is UP TO ME, NOT you. Getting paid based solely on whether or not I "exhibit" bonus HUNTING behaviors is complete BS. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

You're the ones offering the bonuses, not the other way around. If you don't want to pay out winnings and cry "abuse", then quit offering bonuses!

I believe XXLClub and us CM members have had this exact same conversation in the past, and under the same circumstances (different players involved, of course). If I wasn't so tired, I'd find the thread.

The bottom line is, if a player has an advantage over the bonus, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT, NOT THEIRS. If they follow the T&C to the "T", PAY THEM. If they find a loophole, tough sh!t. PAY THEM and then close the loophole...ban them from FUTURE bonuses....but still, PAY THEM.

Moral of the story: How many potentially loyal players have you burned by claiming bonus "abuse|hunting", and voiding their winnings? Think about it.

You say it yourself one should differentiate between 2 types of bonus abuse. The one player that will go under his same name and try to grab all 50 signup bonuses and the one that will signup under different names to the 50 playtech casinos cashing in the bonus and starting from the beginning with with more shield names.

The second type of abuser is IMO definitely fraud, while the first abuser type might be "legitimate" from the perspective of the player and can/should be accepted by the casino operators.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

P/S. Actually this case with XXLCLUBCASINO is not about bonus abuse or something - it is about casino that tries to run away with the players money. The fact that Xxl's rep tries to use the "bonus abuse" issue to justify (at least in part) this big stealing and disappearing act only proves what a bullshit this "bonus abuse" stuff is. In other words: claiming the bonus abuse is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

We never attempted to disappear with player money! I don't know where this statement comes from. Further at no time I said we would not pay the couple of players that are labeled as bonus abusers out of the 14 pending withdrawals.

What is also clear to me is that the player posting here and that make the biggest negative posts are exactly the players that are abusing bonuses. I know it and they know it.

While most of the CM members are highly respectable some are just jumping on the thread to put additional pressure on the casino and try to cover their fraudulent activity hoping the casino rep will let them gateway so not to have the casino further have his name degraded in the forum.

Well this tactic is obvious to me and I will not succombe to this tactic. I'll pay all players that are not involved in fraud.

 

[sweiger]

We never attempted to disappear with player money! ......
I'll pay all players that are not involved in fraud.

Yeah Frank, I bet you would rather owe us players our money for the rest of your life than cheat us

 

[chuchu59]

Come on, give the guy a break.

Frank, can you tell us approximately when you will be able to pay the players that are not involved in fraud against your casino. They have been owed their dues for quite some time so it will be expected that the time should be as short as possible.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

I'm paying first players right now, only through neteller or wire transfer at present time. So all players with pending withdrawals can drop me their neteller accounts or bank details.