XXLclub casino disappears with players' money!

[tristan727]

It does not matter if you are on the banned list

What exactly is this 'banned list' then? As far as I can make it, not one player is ever informed by Playtech that they are on any list...so we don't even know if it is considered a 'banned' list - could be simply a list where they advise casino's to consider their options, as the player made a few bucks somewhere. Which would explain why the OP still gets bonuses from places like Bet365 - they decided it was still worthwhile pursuing their relationship commercially.

Of course, it goes almost without saying - that any reputable casino would honour a customer's withdrawal, regardless of whether a bonus had been granted in error or not - unless it was an absolutely crystal-clear error of a large magnitude, & where the customer had been pre-informed. The idea that someone representing a casino can post here in indignant defence of taking away, not only a bonus - but the customer's winnings - leaves me stunned. This is not to be congratulated, as some posters here are claiming it should be, since 'any communication is better than none' apparently. I would rather they ran away & hid in shame instead, or reconsidered in the light of people's opinions here - rather than claiming said opinions must make these people bonus abusers as well.

 

[sweiger]

Come on, give the guy a break.

I've been giving Frank a break for almost 4 months now. I think I'm entitled to make a small sarcastic remark.

 

[vinylweatherman]

How can Frank determine a player will not come back after winning from the SUB and withdrawing? You can only KNOW that after some time when the player never deposits again.
If the problem is down to players taking ONLY the sign-up bonuses at many casinos, well you have the SPAM to blame for that. I receive countless offers EVERY DAY for this casino or that casino, all quoting large welcome bonuses. Compare this with what you are offered for being an existing player, usually F*** all! Is is any wonder players move from casino to casino.
Players will stick around if loyalty bonuses or comps are CLEARLY better than the SUB, and there is a CLEAR progression in the quality of the offers the longer a player stays with the casino.
Sign-up bonuses need to return to what they were intended for, a chance to test the software on your machine before deciding whether to stay loyal. The only true test of a casino's quality comes after the first successful withdrawal, only then do players know whether the process is simple, or whether they are messed around, paid by check when they want eWallet, have to wait longer than stated, or even the common one where they are asked for documents and have to constantly badger CS for progress because they are messed around with "yes, we got 'em - no we didn't, yes we did, they're not clear...etc.."
Being messed around at the first withdrawal will make a player go away after just one deposit, and so will being messed around over the SUB - they will take that as a warning sign the casino has them on some kind of negative list and will not want to risk a second deposit win or lose.

A player who simply takes the SUB's as they flood uncontrollably past their spam filters but does not try to hide this by using fake names and/or details is simply a consumer getting the best deal. IF Playtech find this a problem then there needs to be a clear term limiting players to a set number of SUB offers across the entire Playtech platform, such that they can know in advance the stage at which they are no longer eligible for further routine SUB offers.

Playtech already have a diminishing reputation due to the number of problems related to Playtech casinos, which are way out of line with their counterparts on other platforms (with the exception of the RTG rogues).

For those who still believe the casino "ran with the money", let us not forget that for many weeks Frank failed to mention that "bonus abuse" had anything to do with it, this has only recently been cited as the reason why a couple of players had not been paid. Are we to believe the operators cannot tell the difference between a "technical issue" and a player they are looking to not pay due to "bonus abuse".

What, exactly, IS this "technical issue with the processor". Processors who are in the business of making these transactions will have staff trained to fix such issues in a very short space of time and continue normal operation. I don't believe this issue was in the slightest a "technical" one. I believe it was more of a contractual or legal one. Either the processor bailed out and ran, went belly up, or was legally prohibited from carrying out their contractual duties. It is misleading to refer to such issues as merely technical, as this implies they are going to be resolved very quickly within the existing framework.

This lack of clarity and manipulation of language is what has made it look like the casino has "done a runner". Once the trust has been damaged in this way, there is nothing to make players believe that the recent statements are any more truthful and complete as the initial ones were (and not, as it turned out). The proof will be out next year. Players will either all be paid during January as indicated, or there will be yet another set of excuses in February as to why there is a further delay - and if this happens there is little chance of this casino continuing to compete in the marketplace.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

vinylweatherman

I mostly agree with your post.

Only a couple of additional information. When we where forced to make structural changes due to new Russian law changes we had to change or complete company structure including using different payment processors or switching to or own. Opening a new Neteller account is now more difficult than ever, i took alone 2 months to have all notarial documents ready. This was reference as a technical problem what would have been a better suitable explanation to the players I don't know. I'm not trying to manipulate anyone here and keeping communication open here at CM should be proof enough!

Today we have processed 6 payments and I hope to make all payments before xmas, I need all documents and all neteller or bank details to be able to process the payments.

Problematic withdrawals might take a little longer as I need to request the exact reason for the players that have been banned. If fraud is involved the winnings will be cut and the initial deposit refunded. If the player is "only" flagged as bonus seeker in our casino we will pay out the winnings.

 

[sweiger]

Seems like XXL really wants to get things right again.

Payment recieved today to my neteller account.
This payment was a pending withdrawal from 16/9. I am still owed $204 which XXL's former payment processor claims have been paid to neteller ($204), but the funds never arrived. I hope XXL will sort that out too in a reasonable time frame.

 

[BBKPoker]

Problematic withdrawals might take a little longer as I need to request the exact reason for the players that have been banned. If fraud is involved the winnings will be cut and the initial deposit refunded. If the player is "only" flagged as bonus seeker in our casino we will pay out the winnings.

That sounds like good news for nottsccole. I would assume that it's more or less easy to eliminate fraud by simply verifying whatever form of identification is sent to you is a legitimate ID number?

 

[chuchu59]

I've been giving Frank a break for almost 4 months now. I think I'm entitled to make a small sarcastic remark.

Hi Sweiger,

My apologies but the remark was directed at all players in general. Frank's apparent disappearance from the scene has obviously not served him well but now that it seems that he is trying to pay out give him some time instead of bashing him which I doubt serves any useful purpose. We will only scare them away and representation at this forum will dwindle.

 

[Mousey]

Frank, thank you for entering the 'hornet's nest' here. Thank you for continuing to participate in discussion.

However!

If players are on a 'banned' (bad player, bonus abuser, whatever) list at Playtech, why are they even allowed to set up a new account at a Playtech? Why doesn't the software lock them out? Fraudsters I understand... they use different names, etc., and otherwise intentionally attempt to cloak their identity. But regular players who are on this 'secret list' shouldn't be called to task after opening an account, depositing, being given a bonus by the casino, and then only after winning and attempting to cash out. If the player loses, I doubt anything is ever said.

A player on the 'bad player' list shouldn't receive swarms of emails (most of them to his email address associated with his casino account) offering juicy sign up bonuses at other Playtech and sister casinos, as has already been mentioned by Vinyl. And I don't single out XXL for this type of thing... other casinos do it too -- that doesn't make it fair, or acceptable, or right.

 

[sweiger]

Paid in full.

My other withdrawal $204 was paid today. I'm glad things was sorted out eventually, and I hope other players also recieve what they're owed.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

If players are on a 'banned' (bad player, bonus abuser, whatever) list at Playtech, why are they even allowed to set up a new account at a Playtech?

If players signup with new name and or clear their PC before signing up it takes a couple of minutes to detect the player. Typically bonus abuser will deposit/play and withdraw within 5-10 minutes and so manage to fall under the radar.

But regular players who are on this 'secret list' shouldn't be called to task after opening an account, depositing, being given a bonus by the casino, and then only after winning and attempting to cash out. If the player loses, I doubt anything is ever said.

Their accounts are not blocked after the players win but as soon as the new signups are manually reviewed. This can happen during play but the player account will only be closed after the player signout. We can't close players' account that are currently playing. Bonus abuser have a very typical playing pattern and we really can separate both type of new players. I could give you the exact formula but for obvious reason I've no interest to divulge it.

A player on the 'bad player' list shouldn't receive swarms of emails (most of them to his email address associated with his casino account) offering juicy sign up bonuses at other Playtech and sister casinos, as has already been mentioned by Vinyl. And I don't single out XXL for this type of thing... other casinos do it too -- that doesn't make it fair, or acceptable, or right.

We have never send spam to any player. Once a player account is black listed he won't receive any promotional email anymore. As we have no sister casino we also won't send any promotional emails to players that didn't sign in our casino. The platform wide (playtech blacklist) list can only be triggered after a player signup, typically players will give slightly different credential and therefore the account needs to be manually double checked by the fraud team before account closure, by that time the well trained bonus abuser will already have open, deposit, play and place the withdrawal

 

[chuchu59]

If there is a 'secret list' the players on the list should be informed that they are banned from getting any bonuses in future with refrence to Playtech casinos. This can come from any Playtech casino that the players in question have played at and that this has the blessing from Playtech. No player who has received the message can then rightfully claim winnings, if any. However, if a bonus had been erroneously awarded, the deposit must be refunded. That, in effect, means that these 'players' have all their bets voided once they play with bonuses at Playtech casinos.

 

[boldt]

got paid

Hi
I must say thanks to Frank from XXLCLUB casino who has handled my case.
Since Frank joined the discussion here at casinomeister, all service has been like it should be, and as i had expected back when i started.

Thanks, and hope everyone else gets the same fair treatment, and good customer support

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Hi
I must say thanks to Frank from XXLCLUB casino who has handled my case.
Since Frank joined the discussion here at casinomeister, all service has been like it should be, and as i had expected back when i started.

Thanks, and hope everyone else gets the same fair treatment, and good customer support

Nothing to thanks for, it's my pleasure to help out and resolve our mistakes!

 

[XXLClubCasino]

We have a total of 3 unsolved cases.

1. Player was refund his deposit due to fraud and multiple account, no documents were send to me.
2. One Player had his Neteller account suspended and was flagged as fraudulent and bonus abuser in our casino, we couldn't refund the player yet.
3. Open payment as no payment details were given until now.

The rest should have been resolved to the players' satisfaction. Please PM me should it not be the case.

I wish all CM members a merry Christmas and happy new year.

All the best
Frank

 

[nottsccole]

Received 196 from XXLClub today with no explanation by email or PM. Doesn't even match my full original deposit, and no idea where my winnings are.

I'm still owed 1608.

 

[chuchu59]

Received 196 from XXLClub today with no explanation by email or PM. Doesn't even match my full original deposit, and no idea where my winnings are.

I'm still owed 1608.

I suggest you PM Frank and if no satisfactory conclusion can be reached you should then post it here.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Received 196 from XXLClub today with no explanation by email or PM. Doesn't even match my full original deposit, and no idea where my winnings are.

I'm still owed 1608.

Hi Nottsccole

I've send you and email with the explanation why I only could refund your original deposit. I guess the 4 is due to currency conversion as we only have a USD and EUR neteller account.

If you didn't receive my email just PM me and I will explain the reason of the refund.

Merry Christmas
Frank

 

[sdaddy]

Hi Nottsccole

I've send you and email with the explanation why I only could refund your original deposit. I guess the 4 is due to currency conversion as we only have a USD and EUR neteller account.

If you didn't receive my email just PM me and I will explain the reason of the refund.

Merry Christmas
Frank

I think the followers of this thread should get an explanation as well. Up to now, nottsccole had only been told that he was a bonus abuser. Here is what you stated earlier:

Problematic withdrawals might take a little longer as I need to request the exact reason for the players that have been banned. If fraud is involved the winnings will be cut and the initial deposit refunded. If the player is "only" flagged as bonus seeker in our casino we will pay out the winnings.

Has there been some new evidence uncovered that this player committed fraud?

 

[XXLClubCasino]

I honestly don't think we should discuss this openly in the forum but if the player agree I could disclose all information that lead to the refund.

We have paid out other players in full that were labeled as bonus abuser in our casino and also posted here.

 

[nottsccole]

I honestly don't think we should discuss this openly in the forum but if the player agree I could disclose all information that lead to the refund.

We have paid out other players in full that were labeled as bonus abuser in our casino and also posted here.

You know perfectly well that you haven't emailed or contacted me in any other way with any explanation of where my winnings are, or even bothered to respond to the email I sent you with my documents from a week ago, you seem to be fond of delaying payments and then harassing your players to send you infinite PMs and emails (counting my emails to support, I'm well over ten by now). I doubt any of your other players are fairing well either, and considering that it seems pretty apparent you are confiscating my money, I'm sure there are "resolved" in your eyes cases where you have stolen from others as well.

I am still owed 1608, interesting how the only winners who mention being paid are for much smaller amounts.

 

[BBKPoker]

Just a quick response to what was said earlier about Casinomeister being an infinitely small part of the online gaming world.

The threads about XXL Club Casino's recent problems are already the third and fourth highest threads on Google when you search for "xxl club casino" behind only the casino's hompage and promotions page.

If your customers do any amount of googling how reliable you are, they are certainly getting a pretty negative view of you from what is publicly available, and it looks like you are giving them plenty of reason to.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

You know perfectly well that you haven't emailed or contacted me in any other way with any explanation of where my winnings are, or even bothered to respond to the email I sent you with my documents from a week ago, you seem to be fond of delaying payments and then harassing your players to send you infinite PMs and emails (counting my emails to support, I'm well over ten by now). I doubt any of your other players are fairing well either, and considering that it seems pretty apparent you are confiscating my money, I'm sure there are "resolved" in your eyes cases where you have stolen from others as well.

I am still owed 1608, interesting how the only winners who mention being paid are for much smaller amounts.

Well I have send you an email and a PM it's up to you if I should disclose the information in the forum.

Like I previously said we have no other open pending withdrawal except the one from aghastik8 where his neteller account has been suspended.

 

[nottsccole]

I've now gotten a PM from Frank telling me three things:

1.) I've never sent an email with my information or documents

I would be happy to forward the email I sent on December 20th to verify he received my details, or show a screenshot of my sent email folder where I sent an email as directed to frank@xxlclubcasino.com. I would also be happy to copy/paste the private message I sent to him a few days ago asking him to confirm he had received the documents I sent him, the email I sent him contained a scan of my passport, HSBC statement, and my tax bill.

There is absolutely no way he did not receive my email unless there was some fault with XXL Club's mailing system as I did not receive any bounced email notification and it has been a week since I sent this to him. I'd also be happy to forward or screenshot the other emails I've sent that have received no response from XXL Club whatsoever.

2.) I've got a chargeback in another casino.

I own a single credit card. Im 100% sure I have never used it to make a single purchase in an online casino, and as best as I can recall, I've never made a chargeback against any merchant, online or in person, much less specifically in an online casino.

3.) I've opened multiple accounts.

I have no idea the basis for this claim unless there is a different person by my same name that has coincidentally registered in their casino. This seems remotely possible to me as both my given and surnames are common, but it would take only a cursory look over my account to know that it is not a duplicate account. Frank was rather ambiguous about this, however, I am certain that even if that another person of the same name actually does exist, that none of their financial details, address, neteller account number (the method I used to deposit), birthdate, or any other identifying details matches my account. I've already submitted my documentation including my passport, which Frank claims to never have received. Just to make sure I didn't hit the submit button twice or something along those lines whilst signing up, I did a search through my email and found nothing that would support that.

Furthermore, Frank claims he has sent me two emails. I have not received a single email from him directly, only a couple of emails from customer service advising me that they were still having problems processing withdrawals to Neteller. I use Google mail and again would be happy to show a screenshot showing every email I've sent or received from Frank. The only one I have is an outbound email to frank@xxlclubcasino.com attaching my documents, I've had no problems receiving emails from any other person or business whatsoever (and I've had a lot of them due to the holiday season).

I'm still owed 1608 as of today.

Finally, Frank has threatened to post my private details in the public forums. For obvious reasons, I do not want my name, email address, physical address, or any other piece of sensitive personal information posted, but I'm more than willing to let the webmasters of this site review my screenshots that backup my claims.

 

[maxd]

I honestly don't think we should discuss this openly in the forum ....

You know perfectly well that you haven't emailed or contacted me in any other way ....

No offense guys but I think you both need to chill a bit.

(A) There's no need that I can see to be posting personal details here.

(B) If the guy is trying to get in touch with you, and is willing to post to that affect here, why would he lie about it? If you're having problems with email then why not use PMs, as has already been suggested.

Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[tim5ny]

I'd like to see the pm where he threatened to post your private details on the public forum. That is all we would need to put this guy on the chopping block forever. There is no redemption for such a crime...ever! Even the threat is as bad as the deed from a so-called professional.