wofacai bonus issue: Pontoon = Blackjack Game?

[pangloss]

How many novices do you think would choose to play pontoon instead of blackjack, unless they knew the game? And how many pontoon players would not know that it is a form of blackjack or twenty-one or vingt-et-un?

Very few.

Wrong again Spearmaster. Novice players have lined up in a conga line to snare the Centrebet bonus that ALLOWS Pontoon as it is NOT considered a form of BJ.

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I can post more and more - how many do you want me to put up?

Casinos that consider Pontoon as a form of Bj says so AND they say so quite specifically. Some of those that don't only whinge and whine when a player gives them a beating and then we get the old chestnut of "bonus abuse" that plays like a broken record.


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[Casinomeister]

... but those who were supporting a casino for denying a player his money because of such absolute baloney are "obviously" not within the realms of what most people would feel is "normal" or "100% impartial" when it comes to some casinos.

Please read the thread thoroughly - I stated that the terms and conditions for the bonus clearly state NO PONTOON. And this is archived at least back to February.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/wofacai-bonus-issue-pontoon-blackjack-game.17759/

But this is only a red herring. The games were never an issue. The issue was that his account was locked. Read his initial post. That was his complaint - his PAB was more or less identical. His account was locked when they discovered that he had in fact two accounts. They have sent me documents to back this up.

 

[uungy]

The documents back it up?

I am having the same issue with this company, I haven't publicised it, as I was waitng for Playtech to help, but they are not interested.

I believe that they are mistaking my account and tristan727, as one person

Can you verify that please?

 

[Da_Gambla]

Please read the thread thoroughly - I stated that the terms and conditions for the bonus clearly state NO PONTOON. And this is archived at least back to February.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/wofacai-bonus-issue-pontoon-blackjack-game.17759/

But this is only a red herring. The games were never an issue. The issue was that his account was locked. Read his initial post. That was his complaint - his PAB was more or less identical. His account was locked when they discovered that he had in fact two accounts. They have sent me documents to back this up.

Whatever the reason he was locked, booted from here...

Based on that thread I dug up, he has obviously been stalking a situation like this to take advantage of. I wouldn't exactly call this guy an above-board player. It's sad he wasted 2 mins of your time Bryan.

This discussion on what constitutes Blackjack is a hilarious sidebar and all, but this guy went hunting for terms he could abuse.

For him, the moral of the story is, if you seek out trouble, it will find you. Amazing that he had the huevos to ask for help once trouble found him.

- Keith

 

[Casinomeister]

The documents back it up?

I am having the same issue with this company, I haven't publicised it, as I was waitng for Playtech to help, but they are not interested.

I believe that they are mistaking my account and tristan727, as one person

Can you verify that please?

Nope sorry, you're not tristan as far as I can tell.

You say you have the same problem, that you have a locked account? Why did they say it's locked?

 

[uungy]

Yes, they are claiming I opened two accounts. They then told me that another account is active, and I can withdraw the winnings. My original account number ended 052, and my new ends 432, whih i cant get the password for.

When I phone them, they just say my account is locked, and they bascially just put the phone down (its happened twice)

 

[Dirk Diggler]

PaB Uungy. Bryan should be able to get to the bottom of it.

I'm wondering if wofacai could be trying to pull a fast one by claiming multiple accounts for players who win by opening up another account? Just a thought.

 

[uungy]

PaB Uungy. Bryan should be able to get to the bottom of it.

I'm wondering if wofacai could be trying to pull a fast one by claiming multiple accounts for players who win by opening up another account? Just a thought.

It may be that , or hopefully just a confusion, and they have made a mistake.

 

[spearmaster]

I agree with Dirk - send Bryan a PAB now.

 

[uungy]

I will do that, I am just trying to work out what kind of PAB it is.

I am not getting straight answers from the casino. The question is are they just screwing me, or are they giving false documents, or is it a mistake.

I sent them my ID, and I honestly cannot understand how they can use that as backing for any allegations, which they are making.

 

[spearmaster]

Wrong again Spearmaster. Novice players have lined up in a conga line to snare the Centrebet bonus that ALLOWS Pontoon as it is NOT considered a form of BJ.

Who says Pontoon is NOT a form of BJ? Certainly Centrebet does not say that - if they pay the winnings that's their prerogative.

I can post more and more - how many do you want me to put up?

Post up as many as you like - because none of them are right.

Just about every definition of Pontoon talks about its relationship to Blackjack - and I don't think you can equate the payment of winnings based on pontoon to a statement saying pontoon is NOT a form of blackjack.

 

[spearmaster]

I will do that, I am just trying to work out what kind of PAB it is.

I am not getting straight answers from the casino. The question is are they just screwing me, or are they giving false documents, or is it a mistake.

I sent them my ID, and I honestly cannot understand how they can use that as backing for any allegations, which they are making.

Uungy - Just send a "general" PAB, pick whatever you like LOL - Bryan just needs to get his hands on the information.

I don't believe they are trying to screw you - I believe it's more likely a big mistake has been made.

 

[uungy]

Another problem is, I dont know my casino account number, have they changed it or not

I am so confused, I want this part sorted forst, but if you still advise to PAB I'll do it.

Was just thinking, if its a mistake, Bryan has the info here to continue, but I dont want to PAB wihout knowing where I am standing, as I am confused myself

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi uungy,

Just fill out the form here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

If you can't remember your account number, no worries, I'm sure they have it at hand. There's a seven hour time difference, but I'll try to get the info as soon as possible. Hopefully it's a mistake on the casino's part and nothing to do with Tristan's problem.

 

[uungy]

I have my account number, its just that they have BS'd me around, I am not sure which is mine, the first por last

Anyway thankls for helping, I will be sending it in a few moments

 

[uungy]

OK, job done, thanks for your time

 

[henryVIII]

Please read the thread thoroughly - I stated that the terms and conditions for the bonus clearly state NO PONTOON. And this is archived at least back to February.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/wofacai-bonus-issue-pontoon-blackjack-game.17759/

But this is only a red herring. The games were never an issue. The issue was that his account was locked. Read his initial post. That was his complaint - his PAB was more or less identical. His account was locked when they discovered that he had in fact two accounts. They have sent me documents to back this up.

Totally accept that about tristan.

But, surely, the fact that quite a few posters here who are fairly experienced on casino games would not think pontoon is a form of BJ is proof enough that their terms were inadequate.

If we are discussing this, then God help a novice stumbling onto those terms.

If casinos are sloppy in drawing up their terms then they should accept responsibility.

That many (most?) dont but use errors/confusion to their advantage is why most people quite rightly just dont feel comfortable doing business with online casinos.

But, hey, I dont think Brazillians are a type of American but of course, quite literally, they certainly are.

 

[Da_Gambla]

If casinos are sloppy in drawing up their terms then they should accept responsibility.

Totally agreed.. but how do you feel about a player who actively seeks out some fine print ommission purely to exploit it? I'm sorry Henry, that's too close to stealing in my book. The issue ended up double accounts, but clearly this guy was hunting for a casino that had a weakness to exploit.

He knew they would call bonus abuse or whatever when he cashed out. He KNEW it for a fact, and waited for it. When it happened, he acted astonished! Came to the meister to make it good! It was a scam when it started, it was a scam when it ended. Integrity dictates that a player who scams should be held accountable the same way we hold casinos accountable.

- Keith

 

[phynqster]

This has been an interesting thread. It has shown me that not all players believe that it is an "us vs them" when it comes to casinos and players. I like that when Bryan and Spear come out favoring a casino they are frowned upon. The reason I like this forum is for mod's like Bryan and Spear who are not afraid to piss off a lot of there bread and butter readers and posyers. I just want to publically give you guys a big thumbs up for not/never taking the easyway out.

 

[Casinomeister]

...But, surely, the fact that quite a few posters here who are fairly experienced on casino games would not think pontoon is a form of BJ is proof enough that their terms were inadequate...

Sorry, but I don't buy this. The only players who would disagree that pontoon is a form of Black Jack are either a) denying this fact because it doesn't fit into an agreeable circumstance for them or b) they need to learn how to read.

If Hoyle considers Pontoon a form of Blackjack, then that's good enough for me. And if you don't know who Edmund Hoyle is, I'd suggest investing some time studying the games you're playing. Every player (and operator for that matter) should have a copy of "Hoyle's Encyclopedia of Card Games" and "According to Hoyle: Official Rules" on his or her bookshelves. Mine are to the right of my monitor.

These books, by the way, are available at the "Meister's Mall"

All of the authoritative voices concur with this notion - so there should be no doubt where Pontoon stands.

As for the terms sloppily written. I don't know about that. The game "Pontoon" was listed as a disallowed game at least back in February. What's the issue about that?

 

[spearmaster]

First, I should point out that I have not been a mod since Nov. 1st.

Secondly, people in here, whether operator, player or affiliate, need to realize that the only way this industry is going to grow is if it's fair, period - Bryan and I will always stand up for what we believe is right, even if some posters don't agree.

It's not like we don't investigate the situation - and we certainly don't take sides - if we stand by the casinos all the time then the players stop visiting because they think we're biased. If we stand by the players all the time then the casinos stop advertising and paying attention because they think we're biased.

This forum could not possibly be successful unless it tried to offer a fair opinion - and to tell you the truth even Bryan, Simmo and I don't/didn't always agree on some matters. And we make mistakes too and aren't afraid to admit them when they happen.

Having said all that, I am definitely opinionated - as everyone else should be. There is no way we are going to be calling a spade if it isn't clearly a spade. But once established, there's not much more than can be said.

This is not a poker game - there's no bluffing involved. This is a place for everyone to voice their concerns within reason.

Now in this case I may make some exception for a newbie possibly not knowing that pontoon is a form of blackjack - but there isn't a chance in hell that you naysayers are going to stuff that down my throat and tell me that there are tons of newbies out there who haven't a clue - in which case they really ought NOT to follow others blindly - and by others I mean those of you who make a living from casino bonuses simply because you DO know how to make money from bonuses.

The only way a bunch of newbies would NOT know that pontoon is a form of blackjack, 21 or vingt-et-un is if they have never played blackjack before - and in that case they should have stopped and gone to discover exactly what blackjack is - and again the definitions that I have listed earlier clearly make reference to pontoon at a very early stage.

So, Henry, Pangloss et al, I beg to differ. If you want to agree to disagree, fine - otherwise post up some factual information that shows that I am not correct in my assertion.

 

[REOdeathwagon]

Just read this whole thread and would like to make a few comments.....Just my opinions, right or wrong.

I do believe that pontoon is a variation of blackjack. I also believe that omaha, hold em, and 7 card stud are variations of poker. And, that video poker is a variation of a slot machine.....etc., etc. All very similar games, but very different. Just my opinion, right or wrong.

The casinos T&C, in the first page of the thread seemed typical for an online casino. And were probably written by a combination of either lawyers or casino managers. These folks should have known to mention "pontoon" specifically. Just my opinion, right or wrong.

I do not agree whatsoever with the decision to ban the OP Tristan from the forum. The casino did not directly come in to thread to respond to the OP. The casinos evidence was taken "matter of fact." The OP's was not. His voice on this thread has now been silenced/censored. IMO, banning should be done sparingly. Just my opinion, right or wrong.

As we are now finding with uungy's case, this may be a pattern of player abuse by the casino? Again, just my opinion, right or wrong.

 

[thelawnet]

Any time I had a player play Pontoon, win lose or draw, I labled him a bonus abuser for any further sessions. I have yet to run in to just a "recreational player, who plays Pontoon".

How many novices do you think would choose to play pontoon instead of blackjack, unless they knew the game? And how many pontoon players would not know that it is a form of blackjack or twenty-one or vingt-et-un?

What strange comments.

Apparently pontoon players are all expert gamblers.

And all pontoon players are bonus abusers.

Accordingly the casinos must be offering Pontoon as a game in order to ......

Attract more bonus abusers to their casinos! ROFL


The casino get rich plan:

1. Open online casino.
2. Add the kind of games that will attract as many bonus abusers in to steal your bonuses as you can.
3. PROFIT!!!

Nice one.

 

[thelawnet]

just incidentally, I can't see why anyone would possibly want to create multiple accounts at this casino, as a 50% sticky bonus is not much fun to do once, never mind twice.

 

[pangloss]

Secondly, people in here, whether operator, player or affiliate, need to realize that the only way this industry is going to grow is if it's fair, period - Bryan and I will always stand up for what we believe is right, even if some posters don't agree.

It's not like we don't investigate the situation - and we certainly don't take sides - if we stand by the casinos all the time then the players stop visiting because they think we're biased. If we stand by the players all the time then the casinos stop advertising and paying attention because they think we're biased. ..........

.......... There is no way we are going to be calling a spade if it isn't clearly a spade. But once established, there's not much more than can be said.

...............The only way a bunch of newbies would NOT know that pontoon is a form of blackjack, 21 or vingt-et-un is if they have never played blackjack before - and in that case they should have stopped and gone to discover exactly what blackjack is - and again the definitions that I have listed earlier clearly make reference to pontoon at a very early stage.

So, Henry, Pangloss et al, I beg to differ. If you want to agree to disagree, fine - otherwise post up some factual information that shows that I am not correct in my assertion.

Your like a politician Spearmaster - you just ignore the facts as presented and re-state your case in tedious monotony. Players (novice and old alike) know through experience at casinos like CentreBet that Pontoon is NOT considered a form of BJ. They KNOW that and they have the cash in hand to prove it. The conga line is growing every day so why don't you get on the end of it and show us some of your hip swaying form.

And stop all this imperious babbling about calling a spade a spade. Many of us here fought long and hard to get Fortune Lounge rouged in what has become a watershed mark in online gaming integrity. Your silence on the issue was deafening, and believe me, on top of the English Harbour fiasco, we all know what side of the fence you sit.


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