Winward Casino complaint.

[Demian39]

Hello, this is my very first post and would like to thank you for having me here.

To start off, Winward Casino doesn't seem to be living up to there expectations. I made a deposit of $25 over a month ago and turned my deposit and bonus of $50 into a profitable $400. I then asked the support rep on chat if I completed my playthrough requirements and they stated I did, but I had to make a total of 3 deposits in order to qualify. Well, I went ahead and made 2 additional deposits but instructed the rep not to attach any bonus' to my deposit since that would mean I would have to meet the new playthrough requirements and possibly lose my profit. The rep was kind enough not to attach the bonus'.

I then went through the withdrawal proceedure. Sent in my documents then waited. First time was denied. Said their sister site didn't have all my documents; Rich Casino. Something I didn't understand since I won at Winward Casino. Sent in the documents they asked for but already sent in all the documents prior. Second time denied. Said they did some sort of audit on me and my withdrawal request was automatically denied untill the audit is done.

Sent in my withdrawal request for the third time in which a week later was approved. They said they sent a deposit verification amount to my bank account in which I was suppose to write back what amount I found. Well that was about a week and ahalf ago and nothing was found in my account. I spoke to a rep who said it usually takes 2-3 days to see the amount appear but we are talking a week and ahalf later with nothing.

I honestly feel they do not want to pay me. I've played at BetOnline before and made a withdrawal with them with no problems. Took about 2 weeks. A month and a half later I've still not seen my winnings with Winward Casino.

Anyone familiar with them? Has there been other problems like this with them too?

 

[pmutts]

Winward's Terms & Conditions simply stated, NO WINNERS ALLOWED!

Hello, this is my very first post and would like to thank you for having me here.

To start off, Winward Casino doesn't seem to be living up to there expectations. I made a deposit of $25 over a month ago and turned my deposit and bonus of $50 into a profitable $400. I then asked the support rep on chat if I completed my playthrough requirements and they stated I did, but I had to make a total of 3 deposits in order to qualify. Well, I went ahead and made 2 additional deposits but instructed the rep not to attach any bonus' to my deposit since that would mean I would have to meet the new playthrough requirements and possibly lose my profit. The rep was kind enough not to attach the bonus'.

I then went through the withdrawal proceedure. Sent in my documents then waited. First time was denied. Said their sister site didn't have all my documents; Rich Casino. Something I didn't understand since I won at Winward Casino. Sent in the documents they asked for but already sent in all the documents prior. Second time denied. Said they did some sort of audit on me and my withdrawal request was automatically denied untill the audit is done.

Sent in my withdrawal request for the third time in which a week later was approved. They said they sent a deposit verification amount to my bank account in which I was suppose to write back what amount I found. Well that was about a week and ahalf ago and nothing was found in my account. I spoke to a rep who said it usually takes 2-3 days to see the amount appear but we are talking a week and ahalf later with nothing.

I honestly feel they do not want to pay me. I've played at BetOnline before and made a withdrawal with them with no problems. Took about 2 weeks. A month and a half later I've still not seen my winnings with Winward Casino.

Anyone familiar with them? Has there been other problems like this with them too?

Hello Damian,

Welcome to CM. You are fortunate to have found CM before throwing any more of you cash away at sites like Winward. I don't know how new you are to Online Gaming, but one thing everyone learns quickly--and unfortunately it often happens the hard way--is to read the Terms on the site completely. Check them out here on CM before you deposit. I hope you are able to get your money and if you persist, you probably will.

Although it has been some time ago, I read the T&C for Winward's withdrawal policy. Even for TopGame it is laughable!

Players who haven't deposited in the last 60 days will be able to withdraw a maximum of $500 per month. This in order to avoid fraudulent activity such as money laundering and other.
Winward Casino has the exclusive right to edit, add or remove rules and/or Terms and Conditions from the payout guidelines without prior notice to players. It is the player's responsibility to periodically check our guidelines in order to be fully informed and up to date with every rule, and thus avoid any possible future discrepancies.
All players that have been registered at the site less than 6 months will need to meet the following requirements prior to requesting a payout:
Must have processed at least 3 successful deposits at the site.
Payouts cannot exceed $500 over a period of 30 days i.e. one month, during the first 6 months.
The same payment method the player selected for deposits will be used to issue payouts, with the only exception being that the payment method is not available for payouts.
Our free money rules will NOT be affected by these criteria.

​

The could have kept it really simple in the T&C by simply stating, "No Winning or Winners Allowed."

For more laughs or snarls if you prefer, check out this link to their complete withdrawal policies:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[SlotsLover]

is Winward 'good to go'?

Seems here that Winward is "good to go" under "past issues" and off probation: https://www.casinomeister.com/on-probation-casinos/

Maybe the casino rep can answer why they have these most onerous terms for paying out money like $500 per month, 3 deposits, etc.

 

[maphesto]

Ask their rep here, MissMD!

I hope we can read the result here afterwards!

 

[conker]

Yep, looking forward to hearing their point of view.

 

[chayton]

Those T&Cs are ridiculous! We should save that link for players who don't think it's important to read the terms before playing anywhere. I'm actually surprised they get any customers at all.

 

[pmutts]

Yes we should do that!

Those T&Cs are ridiculous! We should save that link for players who don't think it's important to read the terms before playing anywhere. I'm actually surprised they get any customers at all.

The thing is that the Terms are divided into sections and the "Withdrawal" section is very long. The part I quoted is way down at the bottom. It would be possible for even a seasoned player to miss this stuff under the assumption that it is the regular TogGame schlock.

 

[met1959]

Winward B.S.

On the 21st feb 2012 I deposit $100 get the boner $100 And wager maybe 10k wager requirement met no problem cashout for $2000 the 27th they approve $1000 and decline the other $1000. They say that my vip level only warrants a $1000 a week ya right!!! And also they say I need to wager $159.40 in order to cashout that $1000. WOW!!! Ok so I start the wagering. And the more i wager the less im able to withdraw. Monkey buisness im thinking

 

[chayton]

The thing is that the Terms are divided into sections and the "Withdrawal" section is very long. The part I quoted is way down at the bottom. It would be possible for even a seasoned player to miss this stuff under the assumption that it is the regular TogGame schlock.

I liked the part where it says they'll only 'review' (lol that's 'review' not 'pay') one WD per week. And if you have a spouse or family member who plays, you're only allowed one 'review' between the two of you. Oh yeah and that applies to all other casinos in the group. So if your spouse has a withdrawal under 'review' at another casino you'll have to wait.

Well seriously...I read through the whole terms and it's so stupid it's actually funny. I suppose you have to give them some credit for at least basically stating in their T&Cs that you likely won't be paid in full or in a timely manner if you choose to play there, most other rogue casinos that keep that stuff hidden til you actually try to withdraw.

 

[pmutts]

It just doesn't get any worse than that----"Review One WD per Week." LMFAO!!!!!

I liked the part where it says they'll only 'review' (lol that's 'review' not 'pay') one WD per week. And if you have a spouse or family member who plays, you're only allowed one 'review' between the two of you. Oh yeah and that applies to all other casinos in the group. So if your spouse has a withdrawal under 'review' at another casino you'll have to wait.

Well seriously...I read through the whole terms and it's so stupid it's actually funny. I suppose you have to give them some credit for at least basically stating in their T&Cs that you likely won't be paid in full or in a timely manner if you choose to play there, most other rogue casinos that keep that stuff hidden til you actually try to withdraw.

You are so right! The more you read their terms the more astoundingly absurd they are. I didn't pick up on that little phrase. Again, I think simply put, their terms should state the following:

Any and all attempts to collect winnings--should you actually manage to win will be denied. Winward does not and will not pay Withdrawal Abusers. Any person who actually requests a withdrawal will be subject to persecution and deemed "High Risk." The casino determines the final decision in all matters.

I could go on but I LOVE the suggestion of putting this one in a special place on CM--maybe in the section about how to spot a Rogue! It is a textbook example.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It's more like "Only players who have lost their first three deposits are eligible to withdraw any winnings". It's total BS, how can a term govern the allowed outcome of your first three deposits, and require these to be lost before you are allowed to withdraw.

The OP even followed their ridiculous rules by making additional deposits just to satisfy the rule, and now they find ANOTHER pathetic excuse for not paying. They are not even paying the derisory $500 per week.

Every player who wins from one of their first three deposits is going to get hit by this BS, and probably never come back. Those fortunate enough to be unlucky enough to bust their first three deposits will have slightly less grief, unless they win a sum over $500, or are such a high roller that they deposit in amounts of this size. After 6 months, then MAYBE a level of service might be reached that would give Virtual Casino a run for their money.

I didn't think Winward could get any worse than they did when they were running their Parlay software towards the end. This is bad even by Top Game standards.

Anyone would think they had no money to speak of, and coudn't risk actually having to PAY a player. Might as well play in "fun mode", if at all.

I played there in the earlier days, and although the bulk of my win was paid, it took over a YEAR to extract the final $25 out of them and close my account. I only got that because every time someone complained about Winward, I mentioned that they still owed me that $25

Maybe a tactic worth trying for the OP

There should be regular opportunities to mention whether or not they have paid this money. Don't forget to remind their rep every week that it is still outstanding. They didn't have one when I couldn't get the last $25, and it was impossible to communicate with them as all emails were ignored, and I had been locked out of the online support system because I had waited so long for my $25 that my account had been deemed inactive by their system.

 

[MissMD]

Hello

Hello everybody,

Thank you for giving me the chance to reply to you all,
for the new members here my name is Malci I run RevenueGiants.com which is a third party marketing company, we run our own affiliate program as well and we promote over 17 brands/sites, the credibility of each brand is crucial for our work and as such we are on top of any issue each site may have and we work with the brand to fix it. Winward had few issues in the past indeed but they are all solved now. Those of you who know me they know I wont rest till I fix any issue at hand.

I'm here for you guys and I will push anybody anywhere to get things done. I worked closely with the team here at casinomeister and they are very helpful and alerting me of an issue in advance most of which we manage to solve before they go on forum, which I prefer as it makes it easier to be dealt with issues privately (it gets solved faster in my opinion).

Saying this, Demian39 can you please PM or email me (malci (at) revenuegiants.com) your account ID at Winward I would like to check the status of your withdrawal.

Regarding the T&C on withdrawals, the terms are not bullet proof, what I mean is that Winward is very flexible and adjust/ banned the rules based on different variables e.g; the payment methods, the VIP level of each player, some individual situations etc. Some rules (if not all) are based on past experience to avoid errors such as; money stuck, money sent to the wrong person, fraudulent deposit, player using fake information/ identity theft etc. However, I took all your notes from this thread and send them to see if they can analyze those terms perhaps make them more simple. Any online casino needs to pay its player that's a fact, if they don't pay the player wont stay and eventually the site wont last it is very simple, it is not the case with Winward, Winward was established in 1998 yes there was some errors or maybe some wrong decisions some may say, but they admit when they do mistakes, they learn from it and become stronger Winward is a credible casino site; they paid millions of dollars to their players along the years and they will continue to do this for many more years to come.

I will be happy to assist anyone who has any issue at anytime,

Cheers,
Malci

 

[ksech]

Hello everybody,

Thank you for giving me the chance to reply to you all,
for the new members here my name is Malci I run RevenueGiants.com which is a third party marketing company, we run our own affiliate program as well and we promote over 17 brands/sites, the credibility of each brand is crucial for our work and as such we are on top of any issue each site may have and we work with the brand to fix it. Winward had few issues in the past indeed but they are all solved now. Those of you who know me they know I wont rest till I fix any issue at hand.

I'm here for you guys and I will push anybody anywhere to get things done. I worked closely with the team here at casinomeister and they are very helpful and alerting me of an issue in advance most of which we manage to solve before they go on forum, which I prefer as it makes it easier to be dealt with issues privately (it gets solved faster in my opinion).

Saying this, Demian39 can you please PM or email me (malci (at) revenuegiants.com) your account ID at Winward I would like to check the status of your withdrawal.

Regarding the T&C on withdrawals, the terms are not bullet proof, what I mean is that Winward is very flexible and adjust/ banned the rules based on different variables e.g; the payment methods, the VIP level of each player, some individual situations etc. Some rules (if not all) are based on past experience to avoid errors such as; money stuck, money sent to the wrong person, fraudulent deposit, player using fake information/ identity theft etc. However, I took all your notes from this thread and send them to see if they can analyze those terms perhaps make them more simple. Any online casino needs to pay its player that's a fact, if they don't pay the player wont stay and eventually the site wont last it is very simple, it is not the case with Winward, Winward was established in 1998 yes there was some errors or maybe some wrong decisions some may say, but they admit when they do mistakes, they learn from it and become stronger Winward is a credible casino site; they paid millions of dollars to their players along the years and they will continue to do this for many more years to come.

I will be happy to assist anyone who has any issue at anytime,

Cheers,
Malci

Sorry, would just like to say/ask a few things...

Could you please try ending your sentences or at least use a capital letter to show where your new sentences/thoughts begin? And perhaps employ the usage of paragraphs, please and thank you?

It would seem if they want to keep their existing players, they need to rework their T&Cs. Are they using their original T&Cs from 1998 when they first opened? And why would a player need to do additional wagering on winnings he/she already completed wagering on? If you only send out a max amount/week, put the rest in a non-reversible withdrawal hold until the next week, where it will automatically be sent to the players withdrawal choice.

It doesn't make sense to have to fulfill wagering requirements again, as this isn't a new deposit with a new bonus. This is rogue treatment, and a warning should be posted to players cautioning them of predatory withdrawal terms. It's difficult enough to have to make WR once, but then to have to do it again? What happens if this player has a big win the second time, repeat step one and two and start all over again? It's nothing but BS. They may make claim they've been around since 1998, but this is almost borderline Virtual tactics...(keep the player to a wagering requirement to get his winnings, hopefully they lose it all and we don't have to pay!)

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry, would just like to say/ask a few things...

Could you please try ending your sentences or at least use a capital letter to show where your new sentences/thoughts begin? And perhaps employ the usage of paragraphs, please and thank you?

It would seem if they want to keep their existing players, they need to rework their T&Cs. Are they using their original T&Cs from 1998 when they first opened? And why would a player need to do additional wagering on winnings he/she already completed wagering on? If you only send out a max amount/week, put the rest in a non-reversible withdrawal hold until the next week, where it will automatically be sent to the players withdrawal choice.

It doesn't make sense to have to fulfill wagering requirements again, as this isn't a new deposit with a new bonus. This is rogue treatment, and a warning should be posted to players cautioning them of predatory withdrawal terms. It's difficult enough to have to make WR once, but then to have to do it again? What happens if this player has a big win the second time, repeat step one and two and start all over again? It's nothing but BS. They may make claim they've been around since 1998, but this is almost borderline Virtual tactics...(keep the player to a wagering requirement to get his winnings, hopefully they lose it all and we don't have to pay!)

They have been around since 1998, yet STILL make these "schoolboy errors" that you rarely, if ever, see even in NEW operations. There was clearly none of this flexibilty shown to the OP until he lit a fire under their ass by posting this sorry tale. Even then, they send a third party marketing company rep along to sort it out, rather than have one of their own staff come here.

Once players win, and have made a deposit, there is nothing to be gained by insisting they make two more on top other than attempts to stall, or sneak in additional bonuses on these deposits as a ruse to add extra WR to the win in the hope the player will not be so lucky next time.


Winward's last "mistake" was to impose 30x WR on deposits WITHOUT a bonus being claimed. This has nothing to do with fraud prevention, and all to do with the fact that bonuses and the terms were designed to be used as traps, and this term was used to prevent players from playing without bonuses to avoid all the restrictions (traps).

Money is just as likely to go missing whether a player has made only one deposit or three.

It is hard to believe that Winward is the only troublesome brand among the 17 represented, just the most notorious.

 

[met1959]

Playing on there field There rules!!!

Look at all the big jackpots!!! You could win them BUT We will delay paying you hoping you will loose it back to us. And that's the bottom line!!!! Deposit right here

 

[incrediblestuff]

Just reading this thread, i must say off-topic as it may be i noticed this:

On the 21st feb 2012 I deposit $100 get the boner

And thought to myself, i might get a boner of a 10000 withdrawal, but a deposit?

 

[MissMD]

Revenue Giants

Sorry, would just like to say/ask a few things...

Could you please try ending your sentences or at least use a capital letter to show where your new sentences/thoughts begin? And perhaps employ the usage of paragraphs, please and thank you?

ouch.. English is not my first language so I apologize if you found my post hard to read. I'll try to be more clear.

It would seem if they want to keep their existing players, they need to rework their T&Cs. Are they using their original T&Cs from 1998 when they first opened?

Of course not, at 1998 playing online was easy while there were no many restrictions on payments (in and out) and the risk of fraud was at minimum. The issues an operator face today are much greater than making sure underage are not allowed on the site.

I suggested them to look at the T&C as I mentioned before. I listed all your comments from this thread for their view.

And why would a player need to do additional wagering on winnings he/she already completed wagering on? If you only send out a max amount/week, put the rest in a non-reversible withdrawal hold until the next week, where it will automatically be sent to the players withdrawal choice.

He does not, I think was just a misunderstanding here, I personally looked into this issue and that was not the case, it was a withdrawal limit by the payment provider and not an additional wagering requirement. If anyone is ever told about this to be the reason (part of the payment approved while the rest is declined due to additional wagering) please let me know immediately as this is 100% incorrect.

Cheers, Malci

 

[MissMD]

Revenue Giants

They have been around since 1998, yet STILL make these "schoolboy errors" that you rarely, if ever, see even in NEW operations. There was clearly none of this flexibilty shown to the OP until he lit a fire under their ass by posting this sorry tale.

That is incorrect my friend, you do not see their flexibility because those cases wont go on forums as their concern was solved to the players' full satisfaction and they continued to play at the site. Most of the issues that I find; when the player really wants to solve, (assuming s/he couldn't solve it directly with the operator) are those issues that are sent to me by a private message or email, or the forum owner contact me directly and not by public posts. And then, yes sometimes the operator make further adjustments/ flexibility, after all we are all human, sometimes there could be some misunderstandings some other times could be another issue but what's important is that one way or another whether it is on a forum or not the issue is being solved.

Even then, they send a third party marketing company rep along to sort it out, rather than have one of their own staff come here.

Why is this bad? we have a common goal here, in fact I have your concern at top priority and their priority is not only to satisfy their players but also the marketing company. Thus, I need their reputation to be at the top always!! otherwise it effect my traffic, I will only let my advertisers/ affiliates promote/ send traffic to a reputable site. For me a reputable means that even if there is an issue they work to fix it. Therefore, in order for Revenue Giants to be on full control we must be involved in their PR. I think it works much better this way.

Once players win, and have made a deposit, there is nothing to be gained by insisting they make two more on top other than attempts to stall, or sneak in additional bonuses on these deposits as a ruse to add extra WR to the win in the hope the player will not be so lucky next time.

Yes there is, There is more information that can be obtained by making further deposits that is synchronized with the fraud database. As for the bonuses, as a default the bonus is attached but it is not mandatory. You may request not to have the bonus attached to your deposit.

Winward's last "mistake" was to impose 30x WR on deposits WITHOUT a bonus being claimed. This has nothing to do with fraud prevention, and all to do with the fact that bonuses and the terms were designed to be used as traps, and this term was used to prevent players from playing without bonuses to avoid all the restrictions (traps).

There are no such things as traps, this is the online casino business, there are wagering to any money that is deposited/given, you cannot call trap to wagering criteria. if you do, in that case you might as well say that every single online casino has the same trap.

Have a good week,

Cheers, Malci

 

[maphesto]

There are no such things as traps, this is the online casino business, there are wagering to any money that is deposited/given, you cannot call trap to wagering criteria. if you do, in that case you might as well say that every single online casino has the same trap.

Please don´t compare wagering requirements on bonuses with with wagering requirements on regular deposits.
The "trap" vwm mentioned was this:

Winward's last "mistake" was to impose 30x WR on deposits WITHOUT a bonus being claimed.

I don´t remember when this was, but a couple of years ago I think Winward Casino was thrown in the rogue pit (Winward isn´t there anymore, but Rich Casino is) because they claimed that every deposit had to have a bonus with wr attached to it. I see that you now wrote this:

As for the bonuses, as a default the bonus is attached but it is not mandatory. You may request not to have the bonus attached to your deposit.

This means that the worst trap is gone but players do not know this, reading

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

at Rich Casino now gives me this:

What are your casino deposit bonus rules?
In our online casino for every deposit you make Rich Casino will add a free deposit bonus to your account.

The moment you fund your account our casino system immediately credits the bonus into a separate bonus field giving you the chance to instantly use your free bonus to play our Slots and Video Poker machines, and you can also combine both your deposit and bonus money to play the casino games mentioned previously. Keep in mind that your free bonus money can be used to play Roulette and Blackjack games.

Further down on the same page:


What happens if I want to play the non-bonus games and my free bonus is pending?

Ccasino wagers made on Roulette and any type of Blackjack will not qualify towards meeting wagering requirements. If you play our Roulette, Craps and Blackjack casino games while qualifying for your free bonus our system will identify this as a forfeit of the free bonus and will leave it pending until you wager 24 times the amount of your deposit in any of our other casino games.

Remember that if you want to play Roulette, Craps or any type of Blackjack games your free bonus will remain pending.

What?

First the player reads this:

Keep in mind that your free bonus money can be used to play Roulette and Blackjack games.

Then this:
Ccasino wagers made on Roulette and any type of Blackjack will not qualify towards meeting wagering requirements. If you play our Roulette, Craps and Blackjack casino games while qualifying for your free bonus our system will identify this as a forfeit of the free bonus


Further down:

-Casino bonus money cannot be used to play any type of blackjack, roulette or craps game. Our casino system is designed to not let you play any type of free bonus balance on these casino games.

My own guess is that the T&C:s are mixing deposit bonuses with "no deposit bonuses". It´s not clear for players.

Most important is that you cannot read that you can request not to have the bonus attached to your deposit, which means that the trap is still there!

 

[vinylweatherman]

That is incorrect my friend, you do not see their flexibility because those cases wont go on forums as their concern was solved to the players' full satisfaction and they continued to play at the site. Most of the issues that I find; when the player really wants to solve, (assuming s/he couldn't solve it directly with the operator) are those issues that are sent to me by a private message or email, or the forum owner contact me directly and not by public posts. And then, yes sometimes the operator make further adjustments/ flexibility, after all we are all human, sometimes there could be some misunderstandings some other times could be another issue but what's important is that one way or another whether it is on a forum or not the issue is being solved.



Why is this bad? we have a common goal here, in fact I have your concern at top priority and their priority is not only to satisfy their players but also the marketing company. Thus, I need their reputation to be at the top always!! otherwise it effect my traffic, I will only let my advertisers/ affiliates promote/ send traffic to a reputable site. For me a reputable means that even if there is an issue they work to fix it. Therefore, in order for Revenue Giants to be on full control we must be involved in their PR. I think it works much better this way.



Yes there is, There is more information that can be obtained by making further deposits that is synchronized with the fraud database. As for the bonuses, as a default the bonus is attached but it is not mandatory. You may request not to have the bonus attached to your deposit.



There are no such things as traps, this is the online casino business, there are wagering to any money that is deposited/given, you cannot call trap to wagering criteria. if you do, in that case you might as well say that every single online casino has the same trap.

Have a good week,

Cheers, Malci

How come other operators can verify players from ONE deposit?

The issue here is that players who WIN with their further deposit have absolutely no reason to make additional deposits, they are going to want to withdraw the winnings, and expect it to be a painless process.

Do you REALLY get additional information, or just three lots of the SAME information.

Rich Casino has been brought up because like Winward, it is Top Game, and Top Game have a significant role in decisions made by the individual casinos, many of which are mere "white labels". The messy terms present NOW at Rich Reels shows that things have not improved from the held view of Top Game and their casinos being run by incompetent, if not deliberately rogue, people.

It is true that where flexibilty is shown the cases tend to stay clear of the forums, so although we are not seeing the true figures, we ARE seeing the worst cases in all their glory.




This one yet again is down to incompetent CS telling a player a load of bullshit about having to wager some more. They even quoted an amount for this extra wagering.

On the 21st feb 2012 I deposit $100 get the boner $100 And wager maybe 10k wager requirement met no problem cashout for $2000 the 27th they approve $1000 and decline the other $1000. They say that my vip level only warrants a $1000 a week ya right!!! And also they say I need to wager $159.40 in order to cashout that $1000. WOW!!! Ok so I start the wagering. And the more i wager the less im able to withdraw.

The first bit does seem to reflect a processor limit of $1000 per week, but the CS went on to say that there was the specific amount of $159.40 left to wager before the other $1000 could be withdrawn. Given that this was a mistake, where did the CS agent get this figure of $159.40 from, after all, it cannot have been on the system as this was an incorrect explanation to start with, and the system would have said NO further wagering was needed. A good CS agent would have realised, as clearly they DID when telling the player they have a $1000 per week limit, that all the player need do is wait another week, and then withdraw the remaining $1000. The explanation doesn't seem to add up Was it a "trick" to induce the player to play a bit more on the other $1000 rather than sit it out for a week and then withdraw?

It is no good convincing the marketing company that a casino is good, it is the PLAYERS that need to be convinced. Even without the other issues, a miserly withdrawal limit of $500 hardly inspires confidence that the casino is well funded and can pay large wins without having to stall and juggle with the payments.

 

[maphesto]

Rich Reels has been brought up because like Winward, it is Top Game,

Rich Reels is (was?) a Microgaming casino. Rich Casino is brought up because Malci (MissMD) is the rep for them. Malci is the rep for all Revenue Giants casinos.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Rich Reels is (was?) a Microgaming casino. Rich Casino is brought up because Malci (MissMD) is the rep for them. Malci is the rep for all Revenue Giants casinos.

It is also not the same casino. Rich Reels and Rich casino are (were) two separate entities. It is the Top Game "Rich Casino" that ended up in the rogue pit. I am not sure what happened to Rich Reels. Have you checked Casino Rewards?, that's where most dying MGS casinos end up

 

[maphesto]

It is also not the same casino. Rich Reels and Rich casino are (were) two separate entities.

I KNOW, it was you who mixed them up...

When I write Rich Casino, I mean the Top Game one. Please VWM, thank me know!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I KNOW, it was you who mixed them up...

When I write Rich Casino, I mean the Top Game one. Please VWM, thank me know!

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.


I have gone through my post and can see no mention of Rich Reels now

DAMN, my mouse slipped... &*^^$%££££

 

[pmutts]

Respectfully . . . What a joke.

Hello everybody,

Thank you for giving me the chance to reply to you all,
for the new members here my name is Malci I run RevenueGiants.com which is a third party marketing company, we run our own affiliate program as well and we promote over 17 brands/sites, the credibility of each brand is crucial for our work and as such we are on top of any issue each site may have and we work with the brand to fix it. Winward had few issues in the past indeed but they are all solved now. Those of you who know me they know I wont rest till I fix any issue at hand.

I'm here for you guys and I will push anybody anywhere to get things done. I worked closely with the team here at casinomeister and they are very helpful and alerting me of an issue in advance most of which we manage to solve before they go on forum, which I prefer as it makes it easier to be dealt with issues privately (it gets solved faster in my opinion).

Saying this, Demian39 can you please PM or email me (malci (at) revenuegiants.com) your account ID at Winward I would like to check the status of your withdrawal.

Regarding the T&C on withdrawals, the terms are not bullet proof, what I mean is that Winward is very flexible and adjust/ banned the rules based on different variables e.g; the payment methods, the VIP level of each player, some individual situations etc. Some rules (if not all) are based on past experience to avoid errors such as; money stuck, money sent to the wrong person, fraudulent deposit, player using fake information/ identity theft etc. However, I took all your notes from this thread and send them to see if they can analyze those terms perhaps make them more simple. Any online casino needs to pay its player that's a fact, if they don't pay the player wont stay and eventually the site wont last it is very simple, it is not the case with Winward, Winward was established in 1998 yes there was some errors or maybe some wrong decisions some may say, but they admit when they do mistakes, they learn from it and become stronger Winward is a credible casino site; they paid millions of dollars to their players along the years and they will continue to do this for many more years to come.

I will be happy to assist anyone who has any issue at anytime,

Cheers,
Malci

So what I am getting here is that Winward basically picks and chooses who they will pay and who they will not pay based upon how big of a loser or at least a potential loser you have at hand.

I'm sorry, but anyone who would play at Winward as long as those T&Cs remain may as well light a match to their money and watch it burn. No, that would be extremely stupid.

I think that anyone who has made the decision to actually deposit at Winward should instead--donate that money to their favorite charity.

I'm sorry, you cannot justify the current T&Cs at Winward in any way--no matter how you try--but thanks for the laugh!

 

[MissMD]

Revenue Giants

Rich Casino

Thanks for the link, I see now we switched to a different Brand.
I didn't see a clear issue there why was it on the rogue list. It only had some insult about the name, but I see it was there since 2010 which was the previous owners of Rich. Since then many things have changed, so I will speak to CM to see how we can fix it. I would like however to mention that only RichCasino is on my program. Revenue Giants does not promote the other two casinos on this link. Also, there is no relation to Rich Reels as mentioned on this thread either.

What are your casino deposit bonus rules?

First the player reads this:

Keep in mind that your free bonus money can be used to play Roulette and Blackjack games.

Then this:
Ccasino wagers made on Roulette and any type of Blackjack will not qualify towards meeting wagering requirements. If you play our Roulette, Craps and Blackjack casino games while qualifying for your free bonus our system will identify this as a forfeit of the free bonus


Further down:

-Casino bonus money cannot be used to play any type of blackjack, roulette or craps game. Our casino system is designed to not let you play any type of free bonus balance on these casino games.

My own guess is that the T&C:s are mixing deposit bonuses with "no deposit bonuses". It´s not clear for players.

There are two different bonuses:

1. Free Bonus = No Deposit Bonus
2. Casino Bonus = Deposit Bonus

I will ask Rich to make it clear.

The wagering from the above two types of bonuses cannot be counted when requesting a payout.
The system may or may not allow you to play those games (Roulette, Craps and Blackjack casino games) BUT if you play those games with the bonuses it wont count towards the wagering criteria.

Most important is that you cannot read that you can request not to have the bonus attached to your deposit, which means that the trap is still there!

Players at RichCasino may ask not to receive bonuses as well. I'm asking them to add it to their T&C so it is 100% clear to all.

 

[MissMD]

Reply

This one yet again is down to incompetent CS telling a player a load of bullshit about having to wager some more. They even quoted an amount for this extra wagering.

The first bit does seem to reflect a processor limit of $1000 per week, but the CS went on to say that there was the specific amount of $159.40 left to wager before the other $1000 could be withdrawn. Given that this was a mistake, where did the CS agent get this figure of $159.40 from, after all, it cannot have been on the system as this was an incorrect explanation to start with, and the system would have said NO further wagering was needed. A good CS agent would have realised, as clearly they DID when telling the player they have a $1000 per week limit, that all the player need do is wait another week, and then withdraw the remaining $1000. The explanation doesn't seem to add up Was it a "trick" to induce the player to play a bit more on the other $1000 rather than sit it out for a week and then withdraw?.

The information above is incorrect, if was given by a CS agent it doesn't change the fact that it is still incorrect. Please show me a screen shot, chat script or email where I can show Winward the CS agent gave this wrong info.

I will emphasis again, wagering cannot be divided per payout limit, it makes no sense. If the wagering was not met then the first payout wont be approved at the first place. If it was met and the payout was divided due to limitation then second payment would went out with no additional wagering.

 

[Nifty29]

The information above is incorrect, if was given by a CS agent it doesn't change the fact that it is still incorrect. Please show me a screen shot, chat script or email where I can show Winward the CS agent gave this wrong info.

I will emphasis again, wagering cannot be divided per payout limit, it makes no sense. If the wagering was not met then the first payout wont be approved at the first place. If it was met and the payout was divided due to limitation then second payment would went out with no additional wagering.

With all due respect, this makes absolutely no sense at all.

It might be a better idea to have someone who is a native English speaker to be the rep, or at least have them proof read for you. It's nothing personal, but reps need to be able to communicate clearly and accurately to assist players properly.

 

[kavaman]

What changes i would like to see in the terms is to take out this dreadfull 3 deposit:s before withdrawal, because it makes no sense at all. If the casino wishes to protect it self against fraud etc, they should ask for more documents.

It seems to me that some kind of change has been made to the terms, i think its even worse now.

Here are a few things that seem odd.
"The online casino industry is aware of the free bonus abuse phenomenon and is in the process of establishing a black list for casino players categorized under these criteria. "

"However, the maximum withdrawal amount will be determined based on the player's VIP level.
* VIP Bronze - Withdrawal Limits $200-$500; Regular withdrawal limit is $200. Complete a total of 5 deposits or more throughout the week and your limit will be increased to $500.
* VIP Silver -- Withdrawal limits $500 - $1000; Regular withdrawal limit is $500. Complete a total of 5 deposits or more throughout the week and your withdrawal limit will be increased to $1000.
* VIP Gold -- Withdrawal limit up to $2500. "

Jesus. 200 paid per week. What casino is this? They do not like winners. Here is a scenario. I win 2500$ after depositing 13 times. Im entitled to be paid 1000$ a week. I request, and get the first 1000$. Then i still have 1500$ remaining, but the next week i have not done those 13 deposits, so my withdrawal limit is taken to back to 200$, so now i wait for 7 more weeks to get paid the rest.

Really seems im right, because this is what i read
"- Casino players with no deposits made within the last 10 days are subject to free bonus money rules and free bonus payout rules."

 

[Nifty29]

What changes i would like to see in the terms is to take out this dreadfull 3 deposit:s before withdrawal, because it makes no sense at all. If the casino wishes to protect it self against fraud etc, they should ask for more documents.

It seems to me that some kind of change has been made to the terms, i think its even worse now.

Here are a few things that seem odd.
"The online casino industry is aware of the free bonus abuse phenomenon and is in the process of establishing a black list for casino players categorized under these criteria. "

"However, the maximum withdrawal amount will be determined based on the player's VIP level.
* VIP Bronze - Withdrawal Limits $200-$500; Regular withdrawal limit is $200. Complete a total of 5 deposits or more throughout the week and your limit will be increased to $500.
* VIP Silver -- Withdrawal limits $500 - $1000; Regular withdrawal limit is $500. Complete a total of 5 deposits or more throughout the week and your withdrawal limit will be increased to $1000.
* VIP Gold -- Withdrawal limit up to $2500. "

Jesus. 200 paid per week. What casino is this? They do not like winners. Here is a scenario. I win 2500$ after depositing 13 times. Im entitled to be paid 1000$ a week. I request, and get the first 1000$. Then i still have 1500$ remaining, but the next week i have not done those 13 deposits, so my withdrawal limit is taken to back to 200$, so now i wait for 7 more weeks to get paid the rest.

Really seems im right, because this is what i read
"- Casino players with no deposits made within the last 10 days are subject to free bonus money rules and free bonus payout rules."

Wow, that is mindblowingly pathetic isn't it?

IMO it is rogue behaviour.

Anybody who deposits here has some kangaroos loose in the top paddock.

 

[maphesto]

Players at RichCasino may ask not to receive bonuses as well. I'm asking them to add it to their T&C so it is 100% clear to all.

Well! Let´s switch brand again then. It seems like ALL sites ran by Winward group are affected.

I found this at Vics Bingo:

All deposits made in Vics Bingo are credited with deposit bonuses. The deposit bonus varies depending on the number of deposits made to the account, the amount of each deposit and the specials specified in either our online bingo promotions page, the current page you are reading and/or by Management. Deposit Bonuses are part of the Vics Bingo Policy and the player cannot resign to them or to the wagering requirements derived from them.

This was that proof I needed! You say that players can ask for the bonus to be removed, well...

Lets continue, this is from Instant Bingo. Different words, but it´s pretty clear that you can´t get the deposit bonus to be removed.

When you make a deposit on Instant Bingo, your account will be credited with a deposit bonus. The deposit bonus depends on the number of deposits you made to your account, on the amount of money you deposited each time and on the specials specified in either our online bingo schedule page , the current page you are reading and/or by Management. Deposit Bonuses are part of the Instant Bingo Policy and the player cannot decline them or the wagering requirements that derive from them.

You cannot decline them!!!

Are you trying to fool the readers/members here at Casinomeisters forum that players can have the bonus boney removed just to make your brands to look less rogue? I have showed you the printed!

These are rogue T&C:s.

 

[Nifty29]

Where's Vinylweatherman when you need a "GOTCHA"

 

[vinylweatherman]

Where's Vinylweatherman when you need a "GOTCHA"

When the hole is so deep that you can't climb out, what's the point of any further digging


This is an alliance between Winward and Top Game - it could hardly get any worse

These is now a set of terms that requires a continuing series of pointless deposits, not just the three initially mentioned. Each deposit presents an opportunity to screw the player.

What could happen is predictable.


Player wins big, so keeps deposting 5 times a week just so that he can receive it at $1000 per week instead of $200. That's 5 chances to slip in a bonus and stall the process, and an opportunity to pull the 10x max cashout for deposits under $249 simply by interpreting the rule to apply to only the latest deposit, even if this is into a non-zero balance. To avoid this, the 5 deposits would have to be $250 each, BUT can only be withdrawn at the rate of $1000 a week. Players will NEVER be able to withdraw any substantial wins under this set of rules.

 

[MissMD]

Revenue Giants

maphesto, Vics Bingo and Instant Bingo have different rules than Winward and Rich. Please do not mix the brands.
On my previous post I did not refer to all the brands we promote as having the exact same rules.

Besides, some of the comments here are are very offensive. This is not the way to welcome representative who tries to hear your voice and help.

Therefore, I would just like to finish by saying that the actual two issues on this thread of: Demian39 and met1959 were both solved.

Demian39: "Hello Malci, good news, as of today the funds were in my account. Its been a long road to get this but ultimately Winward finally came through on their end. Thanks Malci for all your help.

Sincerely,"

met1959:
"It came this am missmd"

Which is the reason I came here in the first place- to help.

If anyone has an individual case with any of the brands we promote at Revenue Giants, I'll be very happy to assist privately.
please PM or email me at malci (at) revenuegiants.com

Also, if you wish to discuss or suggest improvement, you are welcome to contact me at any time.

Have a nice week,
Malci

 

[vinylweatherman]

maphesto, Vics Bingo and Instant Bingo have different rules than Winward and Rich. Please do not mix the brands.
On my previous post I did not refer to all the brands we promote as having the exact same rules.

Besides, some of the comments here are are very offensive. This is not the way to welcome representative who tries to hear your voice and help.

Therefore, I would just like to finish by saying that the actual two issues on this thread of: Demian39 and met1959 were both solved.

Demian39: "Hello Malci, good news, as of today the funds were in my account. Its been a long road to get this but ultimately Winward finally came through on their end. Thanks Malci for all your help.

Sincerely,"

met1959:
"It came this am missmd"

Which is the reason I came here in the first place- to help.

If anyone has an individual case with any of the brands we promote at Revenue Giants, I'll be very happy to assist privately.
please PM or email me at malci (at) revenuegiants.com

Also, if you wish to discuss or suggest improvement, you are welcome to contact me at any time.

Have a nice week,
Malci

NO brands should REQUIRE players to take bonuses and get tied into convoluted rules. If the product cannot be fair if players just play with their own money, there has to be something wrong with the way it operates.

By your own admission therefore, in these brands the bonuses are a trap by DESIGN, and are therefore an attempt to screw the player dressed up as a "perk".

ALL brands need to ditch the current rules and start again from scratch. This time, making sure the rules are fair, consistent, and easy to understand.

Top Game has such a bad reputation that fairness has to be SEEN, not taken on trust. Top Game operators have to build trust from the bottom up, and ensure that players are treated fairly and consistently. After a year or two of this, Top Game can grow to be as trusted as any other US facing software brand. An additional benefit would be the steady removal of Top Game operations from the various blacklists, and hence an increase in their promotion by the more reputable affiliates.

 

[The Dude]

Hi all,

Just a polite reminder to keep the debate civil. Malci is here to assist whoever needs assisting. Don't beat her up. She's a really nice person, and if you've had the pleasure of meeting her, I'm sure you would change your tone. In other words, don't get personal - keep it professional and balanced. Thank you.

Rich casino was a sister casino to Aztecasino (which is in the rogue pit). The property was sold to the Winward group, so it's been removed from the rogue pit. Aztecasino is still there.

 

[KasinoKing]

ALL brands need to ditch the current rules and start again from scratch. This time, making sure the rules are fair, consistent, and easy to understand.

Totally agree - that would by far be the best solution.

KK

 

[kavaman]

I hear that malci is trying to help, and maybe some comments here have been a bit out of line, but the problem still remains that winward has some pretty seriously predatory terms. Have to deposit 10 times a week to get paid 1000$ a week. Atleast thats how i interpret the t&c. I hope voice here can be heard and the whole rules can be rewritten in a better way. Making players deposit several times each week, and then have cs take out the automatic bonus on each deposit out of the players account is really not the really nice way to treat players.

 

[MissMD]

Revenue Giants

Thank you Casinomeister for your kind post.:notworthy

Guys, I am looking into every single comment and suggestion on this thread and I already reported all to the specific brands.

To rewrite the entire T&C I honestly don't think will happen, but I can assure you that all your comments were heard and I was promised that they will make a change.

I cannot guarantee exactly what will be changed, but I will update you shortly with more details.

Regards, Malci

 

[kavaman]

Thanks malci. Keep us posted.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thank you Casinomeister for your kind post.:notworthy

Guys, I am looking into every single comment and suggestion on this thread and I already reported all to the specific brands.

To rewrite the entire T&C I honestly don't think will happen, but I can assure you that all your comments were heard and I was promised that they will make a change.

I cannot guarantee exactly what will be changed, but I will update you shortly with more details.

Regards, Malci

Well, at least proof read any changes as a whole with the terms, rather than on their own, so that you don't end up with contradictions between the unchanged and changed terms, which often happens when there is a piecemeal approach to changing terms and conditions.

 

[Seventh777]

On the 21st feb 2012 I deposit $100 get the boner

Sounds like my kind of bonus .

 

[pmutts]

The Shame about TopGame!

I have stated this before in other threads. It is truly ashamed that TopGame only does business with crooks at worst--I guess rogues are generally crooked and have no ethical code whatsoever.

I really like some of their slots and the platform has so much potential. Their Video Poker would be okay if it did not auto-hold cards seemingly at random. For example, it may hold the ACE of spades for you but not hold the Jack of Spades, or it may hold the ace and not hold a pair of jacks! Of course you can click on the cards to hold them the way you want but it definitely make it much easier for a skilled player to make a mistake (I have made several). For the completely inexperienced player, this would seemingly be nothing more than a trap to have the player play at 100% house advantage. I asked the Reps and Rome, Diamond VIP, and Rialto if there was any way to disable this feature and the answer was no.

Before I realized playing at TopGame sites (at least for me) was always a very poor choice. I realize there may be a few operators out there who are not complete scumbags but why should I take the chance.

The standard terms about limiting your win to 10x any deposit under $249 boggles my mind. I consider myself to be a "high roller" but I would NEVER play under those terms.

The software seems to be relatively fair and random. I have had some great runs there. It is getting paid that proves difficult to impossible.

I don't get it. I don't understand why anyone would play there and I don't understand why they, the TopGame people and their licensees won't just do business on the up and up. Don't they understand that they could make a killing in the US market if they would just operate in a professional and ethical way?

 

[MissMD]

Revenue Giants Reply

Hello Eveybody,

Just a quick post to say I'm still on it and will update you shortly.

pmutts, I am sorry you feel this way about TopGame, I can tell you that since we started promoting TopGame's sites we are very pleased with their high level of games and professionalism. Both affiliates and players expressed their satisfaction about the sites and the games (at least those we promote not sure about the rest ;-) )

I also have good relation with TopGame they are a great group of dedicated and creative people. Therefore, I took the liberty to share your feedback with them and they told me they will check into it. I'll update you on it as well.

Hope you all had a nice Easter/Passover.

Regards, Malci

 

[Diane]

Hello Eveybody,

Just a quick post to say I'm still on it and will update you shortly.

pmutts, I am sorry you feel this way about TopGame, I can tell you that since we started promoting TopGame's sites we are very pleased with their high level of games and professionalism. Both affiliates and players expressed their satisfaction about the sites and the games (at least those we promote not sure about the rest ;-) )

I also have good relation with TopGame they are a great group of dedicated and creative people. Therefore, I took the liberty to share your feedback with them and they told me they will check into it. I'll update you on it as well.

Hope you all had a nice Easter/Passover.

Regards, Malci

Malci -
Thanks for being the intermediary as needed. I do agree with pmutts on the Video Poker. There is no rhyme or reason to the cards that are 'auto-held" for you. Players must be verrrrrrrry careful to check every single time. It does appear to be deceitful - the way it is right now.

Diane

 

[Nifty29]

Hello Eveybody,

Just a quick post to say I'm still on it and will update you shortly.

pmutts, I am sorry you feel this way about TopGame, I can tell you that since we started promoting TopGame's sites we are very pleased with their high level of games and professionalism. Both affiliates and players expressed their satisfaction about the sites and the games (at least those we promote not sure about the rest ;-) )

I also have good relation with TopGame they are a great group of dedicated and creative people. Therefore, I took the liberty to share your feedback with them and they told me they will check into it. I'll update you on it as well.

Hope you all had a nice Easter/Passover.

Regards, Malci

Missmd,

With all due respect, this is not the kind of forum where one can gild the lily.

Everyone knows here that Top Game/Rome are NOT a great group. The forum is full of complaints from DISsatisfied players who have been ripped off or slow paid to the point of almost giving up.

Top Game will NEVER EVER be in the top 10 providers.....for many reasons, not the least of which are:

1. Cheating video poker autoplay (nothing you or anyone can say will convince any intelligent person that holding incorrect cards is not cheating.....it must be deliberate, as it could have been changed in seconds but hasn't...it brings in too much money after all)

2. Max cashout restrictions on BONUS FREE deposits....this has to be the most offensive anti-player terms I've seen in 15 years. Any affiliate that promotes any casino that employs these tactics should be named and shamed and be placed on a rogue affiliate list (which is long overdue IMO).

I'll say it again....any member who plays at these casinos is taking a HUGE risk.

 

[MissMD]

Revenue Giants

Thank you Diane for letting me know about it and for being so kind, I promise to update you on their reply.

Nifty29,

In your post you mentioned "TopGame/ Rome", I don't promote Rome so I don't think its ethical or relevant to discuss a competitor here on this thread. However, I do work with TopGame for few years now and I'm proud to promote their brands. I can tell you that they are a decent group of people and they work very hard on developing exciting games and top notch casino software. Indeed one of the best 10 providers on my opinion and I promoted many software providers in the past 6 years as an affiliate and an affiliate manager.

Regarding your comment about " Cheating video poker autoplay (nothing you or anyone can say will convince any intelligent person that holding incorrect cards is not cheating.....it must be deliberate, as it could have been changed in seconds but hasn't...it brings in too much money after all)"

An intelligent person shall understand that a casino software add auto hold only when the system recognize a good hand. It should be clear that TopGame developed an auto hold card to give the player the best possible chance where he can maximize his profit and eventually win. It recommend the cards with most likelihood to win. In fact I am not aware of any casino software who will hold wrong cards to confuse the player and to make him lose on purpose.

I do understand pmutts's concerns that some professional players wish not to have the option for the system to hold any cards for them. And to be honest I quite agree with this concern as well. There should be an option either to use auto hold or not.

And regarding the max cash out restrictions, isn't it the brand who decides it and not the software provider?

Cheers, Malci

 

[Nifty29]

Thank you Diane for letting me know about it and for being so kind, I promise to update you on their reply.

Nifty29,

In your post you mentioned "TopGame/ Rome", I don't promote Rome so I don't think its ethical or relevant to discuss a competitor here on this thread. However, I do work with TopGame for few years now and I'm proud to promote their brands. I can tell you that they are a decent group of people and they work very hard on developing exciting games and top notch casino software. Indeed one of the best 10 providers on my opinion and I promoted many software providers in the past 6 years as an affiliate and an affiliate manager.

Regarding your comment about " Cheating video poker autoplay (nothing you or anyone can say will convince any intelligent person that holding incorrect cards is not cheating.....it must be deliberate, as it could have been changed in seconds but hasn't...it brings in too much money after all)"

An intelligent person shall understand that a casino software add auto hold only when the system recognize a good hand. It should be clear that TopGame developed an auto hold card to give the player the best possible chance where he can maximize his profit and eventually win. It recommend the cards with most likelihood to win. In fact I am not aware of any casino software who will hold wrong cards to confuse the player and to make him lose on purpose.

I do understand pmutts's concerns that some professional players wish not to have the option for the system to hold any cards for them. And to be honest I quite agree with this concern as well. There should be an option either to use auto hold or not.

And regarding the max cash out restrictions, isn't it the brand who decides it and not the software provider?

Cheers, Malci

Thankyou for your response Malci.

I know you're doing your best to paint Top Game in a good light, but the "we are only the software provider" excuse really is getting old. Everyone knows that it is Top Game that designs the games, and hence the autohold. Members here aren't saying they don't want autohold per se, just that the one you employ CHEATS.....there's no other way to describe an autohold that doesn't hold the best cards, which is not always a pair or 3oak in deuces wild for example. I'll give TG the benefit of the doubt that they didn't realize it was happening before....but they sure do NOW, and the complete failure to address it, and the denial that the problem even exists, is just another red flag to add to dozens of others.

The max cashout seems to apply to all TG casinos I have seen.....a bit of a coincidence don't you think? Again, using the provider "defense" is a cop out....TG could stamp out this disgraceful confiscation of bonus-free winnings tomorrow if they chose to, but it would also mean potentially less profit for the operators, which means your software is less attractive.

It seems your heart is in the right place, but you're among some very savvy players here who can see through BS in a heartbeat.

TG might be in your top ten, but they have zero chance of ever becoming a major player whilst these shady practices are allowed to continue. Personally, I dont care how hard the TG people work, given that it seems all their time is spent developing new ways to fleece players.

 

[max1mike]

took me less than 5 minutes to hit this auto-hold beauty...

 

[maphesto]

Malci!

Are your Revenue Giants brands connected to goldencasinoclub, gocasinoclub or crazyslotsclub? Those former bcp-casinos I mean.