William Hill issues

[Lady Soitaire]

Hi everyone

I have a problem with William Hill. It has happened a few times. But this time, I decided to capture screen shots. Here's the situation.

I like Solitaire and play on William Hill's Vegas Solitaire game. The game gets 'stuck'. I relaunch the game. The 'stuck' game comes up. But if I try to proceed playing the game, it comes up with an 'error' prompt and the game closes.

They say they are checking the case, but as in previous cases, nothing is actually done.

What can I do in this instance? What advice would Casinomeister give?

P.S. I find it amazing! They have appalling customer service and their live chat is horrible. It's even more amazing, since I am a very good patron of William Hill. I guess they don't really care about their clients. So, I am very happy to show everyone how conniving they can be.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi everyone

I have a problem with William Hill. It has happened a few times. But this time, I decided to capture screen shots. Here's the situation.

I like Solitaire and play on William Hill's Vegas Solitaire game. The game gets 'stuck'. I relaunch the game. The 'stuck' game comes up. But if I try to proceed playing the game, it comes up with an 'error' prompt and the game closes.

They say they are checking the case, but as in previous cases, nothing is actually done.

What can I do in this instance? What advice would Casinomeister give?

P.S. I find it amazing! They have appalling customer service and their live chat is horrible. It's even more amazing, since I am a very good patron of William Hill. I guess they don't really care about their clients. So, I am very happy to show everyone how conniving they can be.

Maybe become a good patron of somewhere else, William Hill clearly don't value your custom.

Often, quitting being a good patron gets the attention of operators, and they will sometimes send out a "come back, what did we do wrong" email. This is your chance to tell them.

There must be other operators with the same or similar solitaire game, and who will take the issue more seriously that William Hill.

As for the "Casinomeister Process", there is the Pitch a Bitch service for when things can't be solved between player and casino. William Hill seem too big to care about becoming accredited here, but it seems a PAB can be accepted under the "one free shot rule". To the top of the forum, second row of tabs, at the end is "Pitch a Bitch FAQ". This will tell you how the "Casinomeister Process" works, and what you need to do.

In the mean time, don't play any more at Will Hill until this issue has been resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Hi all,

I did wonder why I had trouble logging in. I called myself "Soitaire", instead of "Solitaire"

Anyway..... here's the update.

With William Hill's Vegas 3-card draw, you can take your time and play, keeping track of the cards that have come up. Just like in normal 3-card Solitaire. You get three 'rounds' per game. I was about to win, cards were all in place for the final 'round'.

What happens? The game crashed. It shouldn't take long to fix this. But days later, nothing is happening.

I complained to them. What did William Hill live chat say? They threatened to block my account.

So, I don't think a "PAB" will help. Very disappointing. But like Vinyl says, I will take my custom elsewhere. And..... I will make sure I annoy and bug them until I feel satisfied

P.S. Should I make a dedicated webpage and put up all screen shots there? AM seriously considering this.....

 

[KasinoKing]

P.S. Should I make a dedicated webpage and put up all screen shots there? AM seriously considering this.....

Waste of time IMHO.
I think submitting a PAB would be a much more fruitful use of your time and I would urge you to go that route.

I like to play Solitaire too (don't know why - cos it usually sucks!); I like the 3Dice Vegas Version (3 cards drawn). Grand Virtual is another software I have played, but I didn't like theirs as much, even though they keep all the drawn cards viewable in a little strip across the top of the playing screen.

Welcome to the forum!
KK

 

[Jasminebed]

I would try the PAB service as KK recommends.

I too enjoy Solitaire, and play at 3Dice. Bet sizes run from 52 cents to $52, although VIPs silver and above may ask to have limits raised. I play at other major accredited software providers (Playtech, MG, RTG, NetEnt) and I'm not aware of any of them offering Solitaire.

Games count at 100% there for bonus wagering and comp points.

 

[The Dude]

I don't think a PAB is necessary. We have a casino rep here that hopefully can look into this.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

I'll PM him to draw his attention to this thread.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Hi lady solitaire: i would definitely switch to 3dice too, you seem to like solitaire and that is offered there, they have very nice graphics but more importantly, their customer service is top notch, they would surely take care of you
Besides that there is a very entertaining chat function ^^

 

[sapit222]

Try to talk with the casino rep first. Otherwise do a PAB as some suggest.

Ive played at William Hill Casino for a few years & its mostly been good.
This last year the support has become veeeeery slow though...
Withdrawing from them has always been a bit slow, 3-5 days with Moneybookers, but i can live with that.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Try to talk with the casino rep first. Otherwise do a PAB as some suggest.

Ive played at William Hill Casino for a few years & its mostly been good.
This last year the support has become veeeeery slow though...
Withdrawing from them has always been a bit slow, 3-5 days with Moneybookers, but i can live with that.

I don't play on William Hill Casino. It's mostly Vegas and sometimes, when I am not travelling and have free time, Poker tournaments. You might want to check re. Skrill withdrawals. 3-5 days is very long. Usually, when I put in a withdrawal (from the willhill.com site) via Skrill/Moneybookers, it is effected in 6 hours or so.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

I would try the PAB service as KK recommends.

I too enjoy Solitaire, and play at 3Dice. Bet sizes run from 52 cents to $52, although VIPs silver and above may ask to have limits raised. I play at other major accredited software providers (Playtech, MG, RTG, NetEnt) and I'm not aware of any of them offering Solitaire.

Games count at 100% there for bonus wagering and comp points.

Thanks for this. I will Google and look at this 3Dice.

In my case above, it was a £52 game. The thing I like about William Hill is... the varied nature of bets, e.g. there is also a 60 pound game, 70, 80, 90 and 104. I've even played a £260 game. The last time it "crashed", I remember it being a £260 game, but I left it, emailed support (numerous times), and it somehow "fixed itself" (and then support saying, "no problem"). On other occasions, I was playing smaller amounts, e.g. £26, £20.8 or less. Leaving it a few days, it "reset" itself, but I clearly remember, with the funds gone.

It really is odd, as in how the game "crashes" just when I am about to win. What's even more odd? Their "attitude" and appalling customer service. The same old nonsense of "escalated to technical team or management", then game resets a few days later and giving me lies. Especially when I have been with them for a number of years.

This time, I am not keeping quiet. I intend to voice my disgust. I am so fed up that I've resorted to annoying them (including profanity, unfortunately). There's nothing better than having a webpage or FB page or Youtube clip go viral, especially as I have some rather interesting material, like screen shots and videos showing the game crashing

 

[KasinoKing]

I don't play on William Hill Casino...

Hi everyone

I have a problem with William Hill. It has happened a few times. But this time, I decided to capture screen shots. Here's the situation...

I'm confused now!

KK
PS: If you send a PM to CM (that's CasinoMeister) I'm sure he can correct the spelling of your user name, if you wish.

 

[The Dude]

Thanks for this. I will Google and look at this 3Dice.

Or you can read our review here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/

This time, I am not keeping quiet. I intend to voice my disgust. I am so fed up that I've resorted to annoying them (including profanity, unfortunately). There's nothing better than having a webpage or FB page or Youtube clip go viral, especially as I have some rather interesting material, like screen shots and videos showing the game crashing

I would not recommend abusing their support staff with profanity. You won't receive any help that way.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

I'm confused now!

KK
PS: If you send a PM to CM (that's CasinoMeister) I'm sure he can correct the spelling of your user name, if you wish.

Hi KK

Oh, please let me explain. On William Hill, you play Vegas Solitaire from the willhill.com page (Vegas tab). There's no need to download anything. Withdrawals are quick.

William Hill Casino is a separate software that you download. I assume this is what Sapit222 meant. 3-5 days is unusually long, especially since it only takes 6 hours from willhill.com. I don't know about William Hill Casino, as I don't play on it (a lot of negative reviews). Then again, I don't really play on Casinos, just Vegas.

P.S I see Casinomeister.com has very nice things to say about 3Dice

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Or you can read our review here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/



I would not recommend abusing their support staff with profanity. You won't receive any help that way.

Absolutely - I agree

Saying that, in my case, from experience of having this very same issue Vegas Solitaire happen in the past and William Hill's "method of solving", I am 100% sure that nothing will be done. This time, I am not accepting their nonsense though.

You see, it's very easy to suss them out. I am really annoying them But they are not closing my account. Why? It's clear that they know me to be a valuable customer. They want me to play. But..... by not solving the issue at hand (they will do their usual "reset game" like previously), do they not see that this time, I have given up on them?

It's time to have some fun and "return the favour", i.e. annoy them, demoralise their staff, etc. It's only fair. I vividly remember, on a previous issue, one of them even accused of "rigging" their Vegas Solitaire software. LOL! How is this even possible? Wish I saved that live chat. Let's see if they like being on the receiving end of name-calling

 

[wigan rl]

I play here quite a bit and never had a problem live chat always helpful

On the withdrawal if i put a request in i get it the day after at 3pm on the dot don't ask me why but not complaining

 

[Lady Soitaire]

I play here quite a bit and never had a problem live chat always helpful

On the withdrawal if i put a request in i get it the day after at 3pm on the dot don't ask me why but not complaining

William Hill withdrawal is good (for me at least). It's everything else that's horrible.

I suppose you never had a 'major' problem. Live chat is only good for minor things that they can fix.

Take this Solitaire crash issue. I know for a fact that nothing will be done. Why I say this? I know William Hill well by now. So, live chat says it will be fixed in no longer then 24 hours. It's now days. Then, they will come back, after a week or so (when they have deleted the game), to say that there is no problem. That they can't see any pending or 'stuck' game. In the mean time, live chat will give nonsensical answers. This is their MO. As the saying goes..... once bitten, twice shy (though it's more than twice).

More details:

There was even one occasion, where I asked as to why I have yet to receive some Vegas Cashback bonus. This offer was sent via the Willhill.com site, so you can see this message when you log in. But..... it's deleted when the offer date lapses. Support says..... no such offer. The next week, when I received the same offer, I took screenshots. Guess what they said? It's fake and that they did not send any such offers : So, I left it, still received the weekly Vegas offer, clicked to accept. Weeks later, I asked them the question again. Same nonsense from live chat. Then, I asked them..... "If I am lying and it's fake, why am I getting the bonuses for some weeks"? It's noted as "manual bonus". I asked why not the other weeks? The usual nonsense from live chat that I'm bad and they will block my account. But it's still active now Even given the seriously annoying session I am giving them. So funny

Oh, back to Solitaire. They even accused me of cheating or rigging or smtg. along those lines. If so, wouldn't I be winning? How can one even cheat on Vegas Solitaire? Lol. I have some "magical powers" to "change the cards"? Hence the video clips now

This is why I say "amazing". When they call me things and insult me, I remained patient, despite me being the client (and a very good one at that!). Now, let's see if they like it when I be the annoying one


P.S. So long-winded. My boss tells me that I need to be more concise

 

[wigan rl]

If you log in from the sportsbook side you get messages at the top with all the offers they send via email so open them there next time and take a shot cant argue with that can they

 

[Lady Soitaire]

If you log in from the sportsbook side you get messages at the top with all the offers they send via email so open them there next time and take a shot cant argue with that can they

Indeed The 'envelope' icon between "deposit" and "logout". This is actually what they argued about.

Today, I received an offer from... Vegas Christmas Calendar something. Let's say it expires tomorrow. This message will be automatically deleted. In the past, they used this and replied... "no such offer".

Then, I took all sorts of screenshot, e.g. the screen when you click the 'envelope' to show all your messages, then the particular message in question, etc. Lol! Apparently, it was "fake".

Now, I take video clips (this latest Solitaire issue).

They (in particular, the live chat staff) make me feel like I have been doing something wrong. But I now know that this is not the case at all.

OK then, time to resume being annoying with them

 

[vinylweatherman]

Indeed The 'envelope' icon between "deposit" and "logout". This is actually what they argued about.

Today, I received an offer from... Vegas Christmas Calendar something. Let's say it expires tomorrow. This message will be automatically deleted. In the past, they used this and replied... "no such offer".
Then, I took all sorts of screenshot, e.g. the screen when you click the 'envelope' to show all your messages, then the particular message in question, etc. Lol! Apparently, it was "fake".

Now, I take video clips (this latest Solitaire issue).

They (in particular, the live chat staff) make me feel like I have been doing something wrong. But I now know that this is not the case at all.

OK then, time to resume being annoying with them

This is bordering on rogue, as in "bait and switch". They, or someone higher up, knows damn well the offers were set up, so you are being lied to, but not just once by a CS rep that made a mistake, but repeatedly by a number of CS reps. This goes beyond the odd mistake, and looks more like a policy of covering up the errors where offers are not credited by the software by saying "no such offer" rather than looking into the issue. Even worse is when they start to accuse the player of faking an offer just to get out of doing their job properly and investigating the issue.

I don't see why you would expect any better service from the browser games, it's the same people after all. The best way to "annoy them" is to collate and present your evidence so as to show that this problem exists, and that William Hill are trying to brush this aside rather than address it.

I expect the game reset IS their way of solving the problem. However, since you feel the crash happens when you are about to win, you are not satisfied with a reset, but want the game restored so that you can complete it and win.

If this is traditional solitaire, but for money, it seems that the crash happens after a long session and most of the cards used. Having made it this far, you are bound to feel that a crash at this point is being set through malice in order to void a game you are almost certain to win.

They should be able to retrieve the game logs to determine whether there is some reason for the game to crash, and whether you had already won.

In the mean time, have a look at the alternatives, as even if they fix the game again, it is sure to crash again and annoy you further.

Rather than abuse individual CS reps with profanity, make your screenshots and videos public so that all can see how the problem manifests, and that despite claims of "no problem" from their end, it clearly IS a problem from the players' end.

Maybe someone here will have a suggestion as to what is causing it, and how to fix it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have just had a look at this game, and crashes are the least of your worries.

1 Card RTP - 83%

3 Card RTP - 78%

WTF!!!!

This is truly shocking for an online environment, and is more like the RTP of a fruit machine down the pub.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Why not? Here they are.....

It's 3-card draw. Note that there's one round to go (passes left:1). Two rounds done. I know what the cards are like, because I have been keeping track of them . I know what the remaining 3 unopened cards are . When I go to the final 'pass' or 'round', the first three cards are 9-Spades, 5-Diamonds, 9-D.

But of course, the "logs" are with them, only they have control over the "logs" and they can do whatever they want with the "logs" . I will leave it at this. I wont' say more. I'm sure you can tell what I mean. This is how "they do it". Merely returning the favour

Experience tells me that with William Hill, if they don't sort the issue out within hours, it won't get sorted.

The video clip is something new that I've done for this case. It's basically the same thing. It shows the game coming up, then the error prompt when I click. Motion picture


Additional info:
I can move some card, like dragging 3-C and 2-H under 4-D. When I click at the top, that's when the error comes up. Lol! Seriously, there are all sorts of errors.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Why not? Here they are.....

It's 3-card draw. Note that there's one round to go (passes left:1). Two rounds done. I know what the cards are like, because I have been keeping track of them . I know what the remaining 3 unopened cards are . When I go to the final 'pass' or 'round', the first three cards are 9-Spades, 5-Diamonds, 9-D.

But of course, the "logs" are with them, only they have control over the "logs" and they can do whatever they want with the "logs" . I will leave it at this. I wont' say more. I'm sure you can tell what I mean. This is how "they do it". Merely returning the favour

Experience tells me that with William Hill, if they don't sort the issue out within hours, it won't get sorted.

The video clip is something new that I've done for this case. It's basically the same thing. It shows the game coming up, then the error prompt when I click. Motion picture


Additional info:
I can move some card, like dragging 3-C and 2-H under 4-D. When I click at the top, that's when the error comes up. Lol! Seriously, there are all sorts of errors.

It seems to suggest that you are attempting an illegal move, but it is a rather vague error message. It would not be a "crash" as such if you could click OK and make a valid move.

To prove that this is an error is a matter of showing that the attempted move was within the rules, yet rejected by the software, and that this effectively brings the game to an impasse even though it can be completed within the rules.

I have not seen Solitaire for money before, so cannot be sure that this is a bug, or just a rule that William Hill have that makes the attempted move against the rules.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

It's an issue on their end . I know it. They know it. It is definitely "within the rules". Why? The move I want to make is to get to the final round/pass by clicking at the top (it's 3-card draw). This generates the error prompt.

I forgot to add. The second screenshot, when I click 'OK' on the error prompt, the game closes.

I wonder why it happens at this late stage in the game? On previous occasions, if I remember correctly, they also happened at such late stages. I "wonder" why? Insinuation much? Merely returning the favour .

My specialty is performance management and organisation. I can "read" people well. I also know "what buttons to push", and when. Useful skills .

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Thank you for the information.

I have spoken with our Customer Service team regarding this matter and they have assured me that there is no outstanding issue in respect to the recent matter which you have raised with them; whilst there may have been an issue with the game which you were playing at the time we believe this to have been due to connectivity issues with your computer however there are no monies currently outstanding which are due to be credited to your account.

This is the feedback I have received.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Let me tell you all what the problem is.

As you can see, the message from the William Hill rep says it's "an error on my end". Apparently, customer service says this

This is how the error can be solved. In the two screenshots. You can see a red button called "collect winnings and end game". By clicking on this, I will only get back 6cards*£4 per cards. This is a direct result of the fault on their end. This happens when I am about to win.

William Hill know this to be true. So, why the con?

I see it being two-fold. Firstly, I am sure that VEgas Solitaire is rigged. Secondly, I am sure I am being cheated by CS staff, simply because I didn't bother to raise previous issues.

As expected, to cover their cheating nature, they now say that they have closed my account.

But I challenge them to go to the game. They can easily log on and get to my game. I challenge them to click on the red button. When they do this, they will get back £24 pounds to correspond to 6 cards. I ask... why am I not allowed to finish the game? Why am I unable to continue to the final pass?

You have the answer from them as.... "It's a connectivity error on my end".

This time, as I wanted it to happen, the closed my account, ONLY because I made this public.

To re-cap,

1. The William Hill rep on here is as useless as CS. They know that they can easily click on the red button, and I will get back £24 (corresponding to the 6 cards on top). If they don't know this, they are just useless then.

2. But they know all these things. I am pretty sure this is an internal CS scam.

3. It's amazing how it's always the customer's fault. This time the excuse is "connectivity". I am not owed anything. But as I have proven above, this is not at all true


P.S. When they go to my game, click on the red button ans get back £24, I think we all know what they will then say. Oh, yes there's just that that's outstanding. You don't get a third and final pass. Some new nonsense will come up. Let's see if they take up my challenge. Come on William Hill Vegas, go to my Solitaire game, click on the red collect button. Collect the £24. Then, explain why you say that there is no outstanding £. Also, then explain why I am not allowed a final pass (game crashed? lol). Finally, explain why you resort to more lies, i.e. connectivity problem.

After years playing with you, being insulted and being on the receiving end of insinuations, I decide to return the favour and you feel offended? So funny

P.P.S. Your loss I can spend my money elsewhere. No shortage of other places. But..... you can't really say the same about high stakes players like me, can you?

P.P.P.S How to I upload a video clip?

 

[The Dude]

Admin note: thread name change

Changed the thread title to William Hill issues since this has relatively nothing to do with Casinomeister.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This is the feedback I have received.

Sounds like BS, they are guessing. A connectivity issue is easily fixed, and certainly doesn't change the outcome of a game. If this were merely a connectivity issue, you would be able to reconnect and complete the game. If not, they would see an incomplete game at their end, but they claim they can see nothing.

I have connectivity issues with Microgaming, and it can result in a stuck game. Solving the issue is easy, reconnect to the casino server, reopen the game, and finish - simples

The same should work here, yet it doesn't.


...and what about this earlier response:-

Oh, back to Solitaire. They even accused me of cheating or rigging or smtg. along those lines.

Yet another bullshit indicator. They have only used this bland explanation about connectivity issues when you didn't buy the above BS, and carried on complaining. They then threatened to close your account. This does not show a good faith attempt on their part to investigate and solve the issue, but instead a campaign designed to bully you into accepting the results of the malfunction and allowing them to let the current configuration that caused it stand.

It does look more and more like a coding error that hits on the third pass only when you have almost completed the game on the second, hence only occurs when you are on the verge of winning outright.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Thank you for the information.

I have spoken with our Customer Service team regarding this matter and they have assured me that there is no outstanding issue in respect to the recent matter which you have raised with them; whilst there may have been an issue with the game which you were playing at the time we believe this to have been due to connectivity issues with your computer however there are no monies currently outstanding which are due to be credited to your account.

Hi Vinyl,

I knew what the issue was from the outset. I was just waiting for William Hill to respond. The above was the response from the rep on CasinoMeister.

This is my challenge to them! Go to my game. Click on the red 'collect' button. £24 will be returned. So... why the lie (above says nothing outstanding)? Since they have "logs" (don't cheat by modifying the logs now ), they can check the card sequence for the final pass/round. What would the result be if I proceed to the final pass (this was when the game crashed)?

The next question. How is it I know their game better than them? I answer. I have suspected this for some time now, I am being scammed by Vegas CS. It's so clear. Why does the game crash at such an 'opportune' time? Like I said, this has happened before, but I didn't bother. This time, I decided to be pro-active. Now that I've made clear for all to see, they are desperately trying to cover their conniving behaviour.

To quote Sherlock Holmes, "When you eliminate the impossibles, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."


P.S. Come on, take up the challenge

P.P.S I am happy to upload clips. But... I am sure they know what to do know. If they are honest, they will take up the challenge. They will raise their hand and say...

"Our mistake, yes, you get back £24."
"But clicking on the red button means ending the game. However, our logs verify everything you say, i.e. if you could proceed to the final pass, you would have won the Solitaire game"

They can do otherwise and try to give a different story. I am then happy to show my clips Not the first time this has happened. You can then see how they have been cheating all along Everyone here can be the judge

 

[Lady Soitaire]

To Casinomeister.com

Please ask them to take up the challenge Are they scared of being found out?

It's OK I forgive them. After all, it's only money And they lose me as a high-stakes player Along with others I know to play on William Hill

They may have 'closed' my account, but they can easily check the game. If they give this "excuse", i.e. account closed and 'stuck' game not available, then we all know the truth. What's that? They didn't bother to do anything for days. The Solitaire game was still 'stuck' when I checked earlier today. But when I make this challenge, all reset? . These people are so funny . They make it so obvious

 

[Lady Soitaire]

The screenshots clearly show £24 winnings so far. How can they say "no returns"? Clicking the red button to end the game would immediately give back £24. But..... why do this when I have a final round/pass, and I know that I am going to win?

So, I ask, what kind of a rep. is this? This William Hill rep. for Casinomeister that is? Isn't this disgraceful? Also, for this rep to use words like "...we believe..." (see post above), does this not clearly indicate that they don't really know what they are doing? And that the reason for not knowing what they are doing is simply because the whole thing is a scam? OK, this last bit is conjecturing, but like I said, returning the favour

Would everyone not agree that this is a blatant attempt to cover up an obvious scam? I pity them


P.S. Facebook page to come When I find time. Maybe Youtube as well. Let's go viral

 

[Lady Soitaire]

They are scared! They have been found out! Run Vegas, run

My Canadian colleague told me about Casinomeister.com. I am so glad to have found this site A big number of us won't play - ever again . On top of that, I am so happy to see that this thread has 500+ views . A lot more now know just what a conniving outfit they really are.

The truth will set you free!

To re-cap (for everyone's benefit):

I have proven that William Hill Vegas is a broken operation. They essentially steal your money, by means of game crashes at opportune times. They then turn the tables and make it as though it's your fault. They have reps that lie, as so clearly indicated by merely my screenshots

Thank you everyone . Work is over, time to head out for a celebratory drink

I feel good What about you?

 

[dionysus]

I feel..indifferent as I dont play there lol

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Good!

Spread the word.


P.S. Just emailed him I have forgiven the William Hill rep. here for his "misrepresentation of the truth". I have also given the winnings (from the screenshot) to charity (i.e. them). My Christmas gift to them . But don't you pity them? I do

 

[vinylweatherman]

Good!

Spread the word.


P.S. Just emailed him I have forgiven the William Hill rep. here for his "misrepresentation of the truth". I have also given the winnings (from the screenshot) to charity (i.e. them). My Christmas gift to them . But don't you pity them? I do

To be scientific, we have to demonstrate that the game crash deprived you of a perfectly valid overall win, and that instead it kept forcing you to take a loss by pressing the "collect now" button prematurely.

In the example shown, could you detail the actual moves you were trying to make, the outcome you would have received, and their validity with respect to the rules of play.

For someone to be able to trigger this error condition independently would be a boost to your evidence. The allegation that this is deliberate cheating would need far more, but you could have enough to prove a "cover up" stance has been adopted rather than a serious attempt to investigate and rectify the issue.

The problem has gone beyond front line CS, yet you are still getting the brush off and vague "might be" guesses as to the cause. They should KNOW 100% whether or not a fault has materially affected the outcome by forcing you to make an unwise move (collecting rather than taking the final pass). It may even be possible to figure this out from the screenshot, we just need to know what all the cards are at that point in time, and the rules will dictate which moves were valid at this stage. A video of the error may be helpful if it shows your cursor movements at the time.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Sure

I relaunch the Solitaire game. It comes up like in the first screenshot. There is only one move to make. Click at the top left (left of the 3-spades and 8-hearts) to open cards / go to the final pass. Clicking here brings up the error prompt seen in the second screenshot. This is the only move to make. It generates the said error.

Me wanting to go to the final pass, clicking at the top left, that was what caused the error. Instead of going to the final pass, it crashed. So, William Hill Vegas, please explain

All I wanted to do is to proceed to the final pass. This means, two passes have been played. So they, as in the cheats at Vegas, can easily show their logs, detailing the cards drawn. It will show that when I go to the final pass, the first three cards will be 9-spades, 5-diamonds and 9-diamonds. Refer back to the screenshots. This means I will be able to open 2 of the final three unopened cards.

Also, note that I have 6 cards "arranged" (top right, the three 2s). This means £24. So, I ask, why is it does the William Hill rep here lie and say that there are no outstanding funds? I am really looking forward to what "reasons" he will give this time

Finally, I do know what all the cards are. When I start a new Solitaire game, I keep track on Notepad, what cards have been drawn, what cards I use to bring down onto the 7 columns, etc. So, the three unopened cards (rightmost columns) are A-hearts, a black jack and K . Of course, I don't know the order of the three unopened cards, but irrespective of which one comes out, I will end up winning the game. I know what the cards are in the final pass. I know that this is a won game. I know that I was cheated, just like in the many previous cases. I know and have proven that the rep. is a liar. I have also proven that this Vegas game is essentially rigged.

In summary:

1. The William Hill rep. says that I am not due anything. This is clearly at odds with the screenshot. If he were to launch the game, he can click "collect now" and get £24. So, I have proven that he is a liar. Of course, they have now blocked access to my account. Not a problem. But they can also easily reset the game and refuse this challenge. When I checked earlier today, the Solitaire game was still 'stuck'.

• From his post, it is clear that they are not sure what the issue is. So, they come up with the "connectivity problem" nonsense. They put the blame on me, as in previous cases. From experience with previous cases, I learnt that clicking "collect" at least returns some funds. Using his words, "I believe that this is a scam. I have proven that he is a liar".

• Despite all their excuses, they have not provided a single log or whatever. You have to wonder why. Now, I also don't really trust them, if they were to show their logs. Given that I have proven them to be liars, I'm sure this is understandable.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

I am 100% sure that this is a scandal within Vegas. And I have brought this to everyone's attention. Now, they are busy trying to hide this fact and "save face". But we all know the truth

Hurray! More than 650 views. I want everyone to know just what sort of cheats they are. And the excuses they come up with! Even Vinyl has said that a "connectivity" problem can be easily fixed and the game carried on from there. I didn't think of that, just wanting them to detail as to why the game crashed at such an "interesting" point

You can cheat some people, all the time. You can also cheat all the people, some of the time. But you can't cheat all the people, all the time. William Hill Vegas, you have been found out! :clap:

 

[vinylweatherman]

It seems the two up cards remaining at the end of the second pass have blocked further progress, the 8 of hearts cannot be moved, and without this, you cannot access the card below, which can be placed. The only option is to request the third pass, or quit for £24. The software is blocking access to this final pass, and instead ruling that the game is over, and no further move is possible.

Is this what the rules say, something along the lines of not being able to take another pass unless all 3 revealed cards have been used, which you can't do because of the 8 of hearts blocking further moves on this pass.

This is narrowing down the circumstances that lead to this error, and it seems to happen regularly when this stage of a game is reached. It looks like programmed rule enforcement, rather than an error, so how come CS and management have not said so directly. Instead, we have vague "maybe a connection error" and even accusing you of hacking /cheating the game.


What we need is someone from the casino to study the screenshot, and explain concisely why the proposed move is illegal under the rules, and that the game has concluded with £24 due.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Vinyl,

Not true. I have been playing this game for years.

The software is not "ruling" anything. It just crashed. If this was the third and final pass, the "passes left" (top left of screenshot) would show PASSES LEFT:0

This Vegas Solitaire game is the same as normal 3-card draw Solitaire. Try it from Your Windows Games.

From the stack, you open three cards (hence 3-card draw). If you can make use of the 3 cards, you do it. If you cannot, you draw another three from the stack. At the end of pass 1 when all the cards in the stack have been opened, you go to pass 2, then pass 3 and game over. It's very simple.

Why is William Hill keeping quiet on this? Why are they cowering from my humble challenge? Ask yourselves this question.

I have been a customer of William Hill since 2006. Lately, I have come to realise that they are cheats. Took me long enough, but like I said, I used to just accept that it was my fault, but I now know that they have been cheating me all these while. It's only when I decided to question them, like on this occasion, then all their lies are coming out in the open.

They know that I have sussed them out. So, right from the outset of this issue, they have given me nonsense.

You have to pity them though. Very sad. Unfortunately, this sort of cheating behaviour cannot go on. Watch this space

REMEMBER: Avoid them like the plague!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have had a quick go in demo mode to see what should happen.

From the above screenshot, it would appear that what should happen at this stage is that the 2 up cards are replaced by the one remaining card from this pass, and that "1 pass left" should then show instead of the face down cards. Instead, you are getting this invalid request error.

The specific conditions shown I could not replicate as I didn't reach a single card remaining face down on the second pass with 2 unusable face up cards. I am also not good enough to even get ONE deuce pile, let alone three. I am not sure how you get the deuce on the top of the 4 piles, as trying to move a deuce there on it's own is not allowed. Illegal moves do not produce error messages, instead the card moves back from where it came to indicate an illegal move.

The invalid request seems to result from clicking on a single remaining face down card at the end of the second pass, which would appear to be a perfectly valid move, and one that worked fine for me in demo mode.


A video of the whole game ending on this error would be most helpful, even if to just prove that it can happen in demo made as well as real money mode (thus validating attempts to replicate the error in demo mode).

 

[Lady Soitaire]

I am not sure how you get the deuce on the top of the 4 piles, as trying to move a deuce there on it's own is not allowed.

Hi hi ,

Have you not played Solitaire before? Under the three 2s, there are three As


When you try the demo, use Notepad to keep track of the cards that have come up.

Here's a good example:
1). There are 24 cards in the stack. Let's say that when you click on the stack to reveal the first three cards, you get 10-s, A and A. You move the two As to the pile.
2). Now, there are 21 cards left in the stack. You click the stack again and get, say 9-d, 9-s and 9-h. You cannot make a move. Remember, you have 10-s from the first three cards (two Aces in pile).
3). Assume that you cannot make another move, even after going through Pass 1 (cards in stack go down to 18, 15...).
4). This give you 22 cards for Pass 2. You following so far?

Then, you click the stack to start Pass 2. Three cards will open at a time.
1). The first three cards are... 10-s, 9-d, 9-s. The next three cards are 9-h, x, x. You follow?
2). At the end of Pass 2, you will have one card left (since you started Pass 2 with 22 cards). OK so far? Makes sense? This is how Solitaire 3-card draw works, whether playing for £ or on Microsoft Games.

Looking at my Notepad file, if I were to go into Pass 3, the first six cards (not telling all) would be (remember 3-card draw):
9-S, 5-d, 9-d
3-d, 10-h, Q-d


I think you can see from the above that this was a guaranteed win. So I ask again..... why did the game crash when I wanted to go into Pass 3? Why did it crash at this stage? Why did it crash when I am guaranteed a win? Why does it always crash when I am guaranteed a win?

Then..... why did the William Hill re. on here tell me blatant lies?

 

[Lady Soitaire]

I don't want to reveal too much information at this stage
Why? Just like how I proved the William Hill rep. here to be a liar, I am challenging William Hill Vegas to come out and prove me wrong. When they come out with their new excuses, I can then prove how they are simply telling more lies I want to keep other material for much later . More fun that way

Think about it. Really think about it. Casinomeister.com is a respected site (from what I've been told). If I don't have a strong and proven case, I am sure the admins here would remove me without hesitation.

I am even happy for the Casinomeister.com admins to have my William Hill username and password. They are neutral and promote fair play. They can log into my account, launch the game, see for themselves, judge for themselves.

Why am I so confident? I am certain sure that this is a cheat by William Hill Vegas. The worst-case scenario is clear. Best-case scenario for William Hill? It's a bug and they are not cheats. But then..... think about it, this has happened before. On so many occasions. That means, they cheated me and gave false responses on those previous occasions. And this occasion as well! Either way, I prove them to be cheats. I prove that their support is useless. I prove that they should be avoided like the plague.

 

[wigan rl]

Lady i think the best course of action is PAB dont post anymore on here and let max? deal with the issue you will get a far better outcome

Good luck

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Hi hi Wigan Good morning

You know, I feel like I am getting the outcome that I want . I am happy


I will now address the nonsensical reason given by William Hill - the one about "connectivity" issues on my end. They seem unsure as to the reason for the problem, but are very quick to blame me for the 'stuck' game problem. It's their MO - first, insult me by insinuating that I am cheating, then blame me for "connectivity" problems.

Here goes.....

(A).
Sometimes, when I am bored in the office, I go to WillHill.com, to the Vegas tab and play Solitaire. I have my own office, but sometimes, my boss just knocks and enters. I will then quickly close the game. We have our discussion. I will get return to the game an hour later, or when I get back home in the evening. Important point here. When I relaunch the game, it comes from William Hill Vegas, there is a yellow progress bar that slides quickly from 0% to 100%, and the game continues from where I left. Funnily enough, it works very well when I do not win the Solitaire game

(B).
You can actually try this. Go to the Vegas page (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) , then select Casino Games, Solitaire is on page 2. Once you have Vegas Solitaire in front of you, launch the demo. You will see the yellow progress bar quickly going from 0% to 100%. This proves that the game comes from the William Hill Vegas "server". Close the game. Disable your WiFi to disconnect your Internet connection. You now cannot open www.bbc.co.uk or any website. Try to launch the Solitaire demo again. You will not be able to do so. This proves that the game comes from them.

(C).
Back to my 'stuck' Solitaire game. As you can see in the screenshots, the game loads from them. I get the yellow progress bar going from 0% to 100%, and the game loads from where it left. Why then, can't it load properly? Why is it giving me an error? Note that as the game is from them, how can I have any control over it? If there is a "connectivity" problem on my end, would it be that the game wouldn't even load in the first place? As proven in (B)? How on earth could it be my fault, when the game, contents and everything comes from them?


Finally, compare (A) and (C). Spot the difference? YES!!! It's only when I am to win the Solitaire game, is there a "problem" and the game gets 'stuck'

I will leave you to draw your own conclusions. If you play on Vegas or the wider William Hill, I will leave you to decide what you must do.....

Have a nice day and have a great weekend


P.S. Just wanted to add that many people are not happy with Starbucks and the likes. Why? The tax issue. What do these people do? They boycott Starbucks.

 

[Nifty29]

Lady i think the best course of action is PAB dont post anymore on here and let max? deal with the issue you will get a far better outcome

Good luck

Well it may be too late, given that she's already called the rep a liar.

She's also stated that the whole thing is a deliberate act of cheating by the casino.

To top it off, she sees it as "fun". Like a game.

It's like she is enjoying every minute and turning the whole thing into a soap opera. Incredibly childish IMO.

None of the above is conducive to settling a dispute.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi hi Wigan Good morning

You know, I feel like I am getting the outcome that I want . I am happy


I will now address the nonsensical reason given by William Hill - the one about "connectivity" issues on my end. They seem unsure as to the reason for the problem, but are very quick to blame me for the 'stuck' game problem. It's their MO - first, insult me by insinuating that I am cheating, then blame me for "connectivity" problems.

Here goes.....

(A).
Sometimes, when I am bored in the office, I go to WillHill.com, to the Vegas tab and play Solitaire. I have my own office, but sometimes, my boss just knocks and enters. I will then quickly close the game. We have our discussion. I will get return to the game an hour later, or when I get back home in the evening. Important point here. When I relaunch the game, it comes from William Hill Vegas, there is a yellow progress bar that slides quickly from 0% to 100%, and the game continues from where I left. Funnily enough, it works very well when I do not win the Solitaire game

(B).
You can actually try this. Go to the Vegas page (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) , then select Casino Games, Solitaire is on page 2. Once you have Vegas Solitaire in front of you, launch the demo. You will see the yellow progress bar quickly going from 0% to 100%. This proves that the game comes from the William Hill Vegas "server". Close the game. Disable your WiFi to disconnect your Internet connection. You now cannot open www.bbc.co.uk or any website. Try to launch the Solitaire demo again. You will not be able to do so. This proves that the game comes from them.

(C).
Back to my 'stuck' Solitaire game. As you can see in the screenshots, the game loads from them. I get the yellow progress bar going from 0% to 100%, and the game loads from where it left. Why then, can't it load properly? Why is it giving me an error? Note that as the game is from them, how can I have any control over it? If there is a "connectivity" problem on my end, would it be that the game wouldn't even load in the first place? As proven in (B)? How on earth could it be my fault, when the game, contents and everything comes from them?


Finally, compare (A) and (C). Spot the difference? YES!!! It's only when I am to win the Solitaire game, is there a "problem" and the game gets 'stuck'

I will leave you to draw your own conclusions. If you play on Vegas or the wider William Hill, I will leave you to decide what you must do.....

Have a nice day and have a great weekend


P.S. Just wanted to add that many people are not happy with Starbucks and the likes. Why? The tax issue. What do these people do? They boycott Starbucks.

Well, this new information should have been revealed from the outset. It gives quite an important insight to the bug that is causing this. Online games are supposed to be robust enough to withstand this type of thing, and restore to the point where play stopped. It would appear that this game has a weakness in that it can be corrupted due to a dodgy internet connection.

Now, the biggest challenge of all for the game comes when you leave it till the evening. This means restoring it on a different PC. The bug probably relates to this, and may even be caused by local cached copies of game content that are loaded during the restoration. This is careless programming on the part of the game developer, as this is a real money game, and NOTHING should be left in the control of the client machine.
William hill probably know about this potential weakness, hence they accuse you of cheating, but won't reveal how they think the problem occurs.

The error might be due to the restored game not matching the game state as stored on the server, so that although the interface shows a valid move, the server says otherwise, hence the error.

The game logs would be a very important factor, as they would show whether the game renders properly when restored both at your office, or home PC.

Browser based games seem much more likely to be prone to this kind of problem than those served to a downloaded client, but there have been a few reports of download client games getting stuck like this. I have even had one myself at an RTG casino.

Rather than closing the game when your boss walks in, what about minimising it instead. He probably knows anyway, but is letting it pass as it doesn't seem to affect your work. He can easily find out as it is a work PC.

If you just play the game at home, you should find you don't encounter this problem.

I don't play solitaire, so didn't know there were Aces under the twos.

I know a kid that does though, so I will get the "Concrete Parachute" onto the case at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Nifty29]

I have just had a look at this game, and crashes are the least of your worries.



WTF!!!!

This is truly shocking for an online environment, and is more like the RTP of a fruit machine down the pub.

Yes, quite so old bean.

Makes you wonder why she is so desperate to turn this into a full on bashfest?

Something doesn't seem right.

One thing I think I can resolve....I think the rep is telling the truth about there being "no outstanding winnings due". Surely, if neither the solitaire was completed, nor the collect button pressed, wouldn't that mean it was an unfinished game? If so, it would explain the lack of winnings outstanding, as the bet has not been resolved.

The OP is clearly hijacking the forum for their own agenda, which is crazy given the horrible RTP of the game. If she is ahead of the game, it must be her that is doing something dodgy.

 

[The Dude]

@ Lady Soltaire

I want to remind you to read our rules about harassment and insulting behavior. William Hill is one of your fellow members and calling him a liar is both aggressive and insulting. We value giving each other respect and common courtesy in this forum. If you've come here primarily to create a torch and pitchfork mob, you have picked the wrong website to do so - and you'll be called out on it. You are posting in the complaints forum - we have rules here; abide by them.

My suggestion for you is to submit a PAB or quit complaining.

I would also suggest using a spell-check when selecting a username. Soltaire is not a word, unless it's your name.

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Yes, quite so old bean.

Makes you wonder why she is so desperate to turn this into a full on bashfest?

Something doesn't seem right.

One thing I think I can resolve....I think the rep is telling the truth about there being "no outstanding winnings due". Surely, if neither the solitaire was completed, nor the collect button pressed, wouldn't that mean it was an unfinished game? If so, it would explain the lack of winnings outstanding, as the bet has not been resolved.

The OP is clearly hijacking the forum for their own agenda, which is crazy given the horrible RTP of the game. If she is ahead of the game, it must be her that is doing something dodgy.

Hi Nifty

Imagine the following:

1. This has happened to you a number of times. You tell them to check.
2. William Hill says you are cheating (this is impossible). You tell them to check.
3. William Hill then says no, you have a connectivity error. You tell them to check.
4. Nothing gets done. The game automatically resets after some time and you are on the receiving end of insults, insinuations and nonsensical replies.
5. It happens again. Same old story. You decide to investigate.
6. You realise the truth, don't care about the gaming operator anymore, just want everyone to know the truth, the crux of the matter

This is essentially the case. I am not hijacking the thread - it is my thread! Yes! I am "bashing" them, as you put it. The reasons are clear!

The William Hill rep. is very quick to throw accusations. I am merely providing very compelling reasons to show that his accusations and reasons are way off the mark. In addition, my compelling reasons clearly show the responses from William Hill are not in the direction of the truth.

I have been playing on William Hill Vegas since 2006. I am definitely "not ahead", as you put it . As William Hill will be able to tell you, £ is not a concern for me . But as I said, I am on a mission to find the truth and get to the bottom of this matter. Think about it. Just spend a quick moment to think about it. Why have I never been shown any logs, not even when this happened on previous occasions?

As Casinomeister pointed out, this is a complaints section. My intentions are clear. They have been clear from the outset. I want to make everyone aware of this recurring problem, this problem that remains unaddressed. As pointed out by some of you, unmodified logs from William Hill would be very useful. There is nothing forthcoming. Never have been. Apart from wild accusations. Like the ones now made by Nifty It is crystal clear that my words are backed with screenshots (I am keeping other material private for now), as well as very sound reasoning that can be repeated on the Solitaire demo game as well as my 'stuck' game.

Re-read the response from the rep. He himself doesn't know what the problem is, but as usual, conveniently puts the blame on me. "Connectivity", he says now. I think my previous long post clearly shows that this is, at best, a wild guess. Would you not prefer answers such as, "Our logs, reproduced here for you...."? Instead of the vague response, "we believe...connectivity...."?


I ask the following questions:

1.
How it it even possible for me to "cheat"? I repeat, I have been a high-stakes player for the past 6-odd years. If I have been cheating, surely I would be winning, all the time This is not the case. If I were cheating, surely William Hill would have banned me years ago. Or even a week ago! (I play Solitaire regularly).

2.
Note their MO pattern and reasons given. It is clear that I am not telling lies, cheating, or anything of that sort. At worst, as Casinomeister pointed out, I am "over-complaining".

3.
Why won't they show any "logs"? Why come up with "reasons" such as "connectivity issue on my end", when they are so clearly unsure of the fault at hand. I must also ask why the game "crashed" and became "stuck" at such an "interesting point".

4.
Nifty comes up with "the game is unresolved". If this is the case, why can't the game relaunch properly, from where it left off? Nifty says that the game is "unfinished". So I ask! Why can't I finish the game? Why can't they "resolve" the game? Or... does "resolving" the game mean a reset?

5.
From 4., why do they give a response stating that "there is nothing outstanding...", and if you were to re-read the post from the William Hill rep., clear indication that the game is over, when as Nifty puts it, the "game is unresolved"?


Finally, please allow me to quote Sherlock Holmes:
"If you remove the impossibles, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

With this in mind, I concur with Nifty's observation - something doesn't seem right!

 

[Lady Soitaire]

Hi Casinomeister

I am sorry. I won't use the word 'liar again .

I wanted to also ask something. Nifty wrote:

If she is ahead of the game, it must be her that is doing something dodgy.

Isn't this not tantamount to "making a false accusation"? Isn't this "aggressive" and "insulting"? Noting the definitive nature of the word "must", isn't this effectively calling someone a "cheat"?

I was just wondering..... It is amazing how Nifty can come to such an "insulting conclusion" without anything solid to back his/her claim. What about... I've just been lucky?

Of course, it is now clear, I am a long-standing player at William Hill. I am not that lucky If I ask them to re-open my account, they will do it immediately I am 100% sure. Why? I am a valuable customer One of me is akin to at least 100 of their average-spending customers. Then, add my friends and colleagues.

Also, you wrote:

posting in the complaints forum - we have rules here; abide by them.
My suggestion for you is to submit a PAB or quit complaining.

Is one not allowed to "complain" in the "complaints forum"? (joking!)


P.S. I will read PAB details and if I have any problems, I will message you to help push me in the right direction in terms of completing it. I am eager to get a "proper response" from them. Irrespective of this, we will never play at William Hill again.

P.P.S. I think it's rather "odd" and definitely unbecoming, your need to lecture me on a username. I am sure that there are 100s of usernames on here that aren't "words", as you put it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Keeping other material private isn't helpful (unless you intend to PAB). You failed to mention a very critical piece of information that would have been very useful in trying to replicate the problem, that of how you would close the game when your boss caught you by surprise, and relaunch it later for completion.

I do not believe the demo game will behave in the same way as a real money game under these conditions, so further tests on the demo version would be pointless.

A real money game that is unfinished has to be resolved so that the player's balance can be updated, and the pending wager on the server completed. There is no reason to resolve a stuck demo game, and in fact it would be impossible to do so where different computers are involved.

To develop my current feelings about the nature of this error after the release of further information as to the circumstances that trigger it:-

What if the discrepancy between server and PC display was that the server considered no further passes were available, but the browser display showed that there was one left. In such a case, the browser would present an activated and clickable deck of cards instead of the "X" symbol. When clicked, a request would be sent to the server to move to the next pass, however the server sees no next pass as being available, so sends back an error, which would explain the "stuck" nature of this game.

This should be "bleedin' obvious" from an analysis of the game logs, and would kill any PAB of yours stone dead. Since you have been tracking the cards, you will know EXACTLY how many passes have been played, whatever the display indicated.

If the above is a fair representation of the bug scenario, you are never going to PAB even though the Meister himself has asked you to. You are only going to continue as before. If you are not going to PAB, you might as well release all of your "secret material". If it is so damning, why not, it will accelerate your published intent to prove that William Hill are liars, cheats, and thieves.