William Hill go even lower on RTP

[pinnit2014]

Oh poor casinos... How they manage to survive with only 4% House edge...

Just building it up to give you your 2000x bonanza win

 

[mack341]

I noticed their usual weekend 10% of your losses back was now restricted to your play on 1 game. So I think they must be 'reaping' the awards from the rtp cuts and the website changes they've so far brought in.

 

[pinnit2014]

Yeah, they go through periods were offers are good for 3 months and then Sky/Coral level garbage for the next 6

 

[ESCJAMIE]

I've not even won any spins in 52 days?

Always an X

Not that i'm bitter...

I have a friend who wins almost every day 5 fs, there is for sure somthing on our accounts to stop us winning on that spinner

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Nauses me up every time I see their fucking irritating adverts on the tv or hear them on the radio,

Greedy c**ts

 

[gonzo fonso]

yeah i agree with all your coments guys,im sure 888.com have something to do with william hill ?

 

[Siohmy]

Just makes it easier not to play. May be in the minority along with others on here but will not play any site which has most slots on lower or lowest setting. If that means I eventually pretty much stop altogether then that’s not a bad thing to be honest even though I can more than afford what I play.
Only MrQ’s, All British and, at a push, Grosvenor (many PlaynGo’s still at max, although book of dead at 94%).
It always sticks in the throat when SkyVegas boast about being the biggest online casino whilst, at the same time, being the biggest rip off.

 

[slot_zombie]

I can walk into their Brick and Mortar betting shops and get a marginally higher RTP.

Just makes it easier not to play. May be in the minority along with others on here but will not play any site which has most slots on lower or lowest setting. If that means I eventually pretty much stop altogether then that’s not a bad thing to be honest even though I can more than afford what I play.
Only MrQ’s, All British and, at a push, Grosvenor (many PlaynGo’s still at max, although book of dead at 94%).
It always sticks in the throat when SkyVegas boast about being the biggest online casino whilst, at the same time, being the biggest rip off.

Nope, haven't played one spin on a reduced RTP slot - ever - and never will. Not going to keep banging the offshore drum but can't beat it.

Mr Q for me onshore.

Also make an exception for Lottomart as decent site and rep, even though a lot of RTP is lowered, I use them mostly for my BTG sessions and avoid the lowered RTP games. But that backfired over the weekend as Mark's Golden Catch proceeded to execute a 170 quid low rolling deposit with nary a flicker. Must have been fishing in depleted European waters ?

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Golden Catch is a truly terrible game tbf.

 

[onelastspintowinbig]

Must have been fishing in depleted European waters ?

a spanish player caught all the 500x fish at the weekend.....

 

[ricky]

I noticed their usual weekend 10% of your losses back was now restricted to your play on 1 game. So I think they must be 'reaping' the awards from the rtp cuts and the website changes they've so far brought in.

they used to give back 10% of not only your deposit but the bonus too if you got one

i remember being a vip there when they would give out 15%...would get 30% of deposit back

 

[jasonuk]

Another day, and another provider... this time SG (now Light and Wonder) offering 89.75% RTP on Action Bank Cash Shot.

At least the promotions will take the sting out of it, right? Well the long-standing 10% weekend cashback promotion has ended, the weekly buy-in bonus (15xB on selected 92-94% slots) has gone missing, the bingo and poker promotions are missing after being merged into the Vegas tab, and in one case a £7500 slot battle promotion was voided retroactively - possibly due to them breaking the promotion hub to honour the queen and not getting the expected number of players?

We’re just letting you know that we’ve paused our Battle of the Apex Predators Slots Battle.

What happens next?

We are looking to rerun this at a later date, where any stakes already made on the qualifying games during the initial promotional period will count towards the overall totals.

At what point do we stop calling it "gambling"?

 

[ESCJAMIE]

Its coming to a point where land based casinos have higher RTP then online somthing I thought would never happen

 

[slot_zombie]

Even Videoslots have it on 94%! Can go to 96%, at which point it probably becomes vaguely playable, albeit probably still quite an unpleasant pay profile and clunky reels/interface, as only SG/Light and Wonder can pull off.

 

[slot_zombie]

Not specifically about William Hill, but I heard that Elk are pushing for a maximum 94% maths model (see their upcoming Avalon Gold slot).

Soon be time to pack in, I think.

 

[jasonuk]

Now I understand why SG rebranded to Light and Wonder... Subbuteo Star Striker (slot) on William Hill at 88.88% ?

We expected the drop from 96-97 to 94-95 would open the floodgates... after many years of 95-96 being "the standard", some operators having blown through 94, 92, 91 and now 90 - it was only three weeks ago I mentioned Action Bank at 89.75%!

We noted the anomaly that online casinos were already offering lower RTPs than their physical counterparts, we're now passing FOBTs (which seem to be around 86-93% depending on stake?) and nearly at pub AWP randoms offering better percentages? What a joke ?

 

[Lucky Loser]

This is shocking. Please vote with your wallet to dissuade this type of profiteering behaviour. Just pure corporate greed. They rely on mug punters and will stretch it as far as they can.

 

[satchnz]

Avoid Elk slots too. They (currently) only offer one RTP version of their slots and this has been 94% for more recent releases.

 

[megadam]

Avoid Elk slots too. They (currently) only offer one RTP version of their slots and this has been 94% for more recent releases.

Actually ELK with the latest 94% releases offer them in what can only play as hot garbage 87% lmao.

 

[satchnz]

Actually ELK with the latest 94% releases offer them in what can only play as hot garbage 87% lmao.

Sorry, are you saying that Elk have 87% versions of their games or the 94%ers play like the are set at 87%?

 

[megadam]

Sorry, are you saying that Elk have 87% versions of their games or the 94%ers play like the are set at 87%?

Sorry meant to say their recent releases that have a top end 94% RTP like Buffalo Toro and Dropz actually have two RTP settings. 94% and 87%.

 

[satchnz]

Sorry meant to say their recent releases that have a top end 94% RTP like Buffalo Toro and Dropz actually have two RTP settings. 94% and 87%.

Which casinos are they at 87%?

 

[09237653]

Mr Green rocking 91% png games now, not that I even played them at 94%.

 

[anddi32]

Has anyone noticed that new BTG's RTP is less than default somewhere?

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

It’s very simple, just play at places where the game of your choice is on the highest RTP.

If you play at sites knowing full well your playing a reduced RTP version of a game you can play elsewhere at max RTP, then you are simply fuelling the fire.

It’s utter madness.

Maybe one day the so called ‘honest and genuine’ affiliates can point this out to the clueys they target who don’t have a scoobies.

Until the word spreads and people vote with their wallets it’s just gonna get worse.

If only we had some kind of governing body here in uk that would step up and make a minimum RTP a law so that players money could go further rather than worrying about auto play and quick spins.

Do we honestly think that if 95% was made the absolute minimum by the UKGC the likes of Hills, Sky, Uni, lads, corals, paddy etc etc would remove them all???? Of course they wouldn’t, they’d be shouting from the roof tops who put them back up to the max first and start a bidding war on promotional stuff to get you playing at their respective sites.

Until then, don’t give a coin to any of these greedy assholes running stuff on horse shit RTP.

 

[goatwack]

Easier said than done, as most will want to continue playing their favourite games, sometimes ones they've played a fair while, and feel they can still glean some form of enjoyment out of them.

Those new to slotting won't know any different, and will think this is the way it is, and so the cycle never quite ends....

But you'd think that at some point, the games will hit such dire levels of return that most will think of it as a wasted venture, and rather do anything than slotting, no matter how shiny the graphics, and I think it'll get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

For that to happen, the casinos will have to let it die a death, until there's hardly anyone left playing, or the whole thing's crashed. After which of course they'll fill the void they helped create by throwing out the high RTPs in order to get the advantage over their competitors in some brave new world!

All that's happening before us is a blatant pisstake by developers and casinos as they push RTP to the lowest levels they can, and because they're still being enabled to do so. Fact is the industry's in its death-throes, and will eventually reset, maybe even taking a slightly different form.

If punters want to abide by these RTP cullings and support being ripped off before that happens, I guess that's down to each individual player, so long as they're aware they're being used because the casinos can ......

It doesn't bode well, and with RTP making lowrollers essentially extinct, there'll be scores of people wanting to attain any form of 'winning', which may result in replicating outlandish bet sizes, creating a new set of gamblers out of their depth. How's that for Responsible Gambling, eh UKGC, eh casinos, eh developers

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Fair points. But I do think RTP awareness is on the rise.

Let’s petition the UKGC as it seems 30 odd people who were gambling addicts can get auto spins banned. So maybe a few hundred can make them take note of the daylight robbery going on.

Do you think the head honchos know what RTP stands for??

 

[goatwack]

They most certainly are witless clowns......but I don't believe any small band of gamblers lobbied to have the likes of Autospins removed, and even if they had, the numbers would be negligible.

Because then that would stand to reason a larger contingent of gamblers could state 'the removal of Autospins is harmful to punters!', and have it reinstated. And before you know it, it becomes like a bloody yo-yo!

The saddest part is that the decision makers are non-gamblers and are treating gambling as a pestilence that needs to be neutered, to the point it becomes 'not gambling, really', and with each passing month it becomes more clear that these decisions aren't gambling- oriented, but something else.

Also the reason why they sit idly as Rome burns, because either they genuinely couldn't care less about some gambler's 'feelings', or they want the whole thing so undesirable that soon no one will want to touch slotting with a Bonanza-shaped bargepole.

And of course never ones to miss a trick, casinos and developers know the game's up and are pushing the limits with one last hurrah, via these borderline theft RTP reductions....

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

I’m sure I remember seeing maybe a Chopley Or Daz ‘bonanza’ Slayer G video that looked into how they made the decision to remove autos and indeed it was based on some questions they put to a very small number of addicts.

 

[goatwack]

It was a False Flag operation!!

Only joshing, I'm not that crazy

Even so, further proof that they base decisions affecting millions on a throwaway questionnaire, if even genuine (uh-oh), and further illustrating their lack of gambler-related knowledge.

In no universe, or any multiverses or parallel dimensions is there any legitimate proof that Autospins adversely affect gamblers. So until the current overseers are replaced with someone worth their salt, we could be in for a long wait!

(and shit RTPs)

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Talking of hills they’ve just today slapped a bag a month net deposit limit on my account.

Bang goes my chance of a feature on Tyrant King Megaways on min stake then ffs.

Wankers.

 

[goatwack]

Just suspend your disbelief and think of it as a sort of player protection

 

[jasonuk]

Sorry meant to say their recent releases that have a top end 94% RTP like Buffalo Toro and Dropz actually have two RTP settings. 94% and 87%.

Some slot data aggregation sites are flagging Dropz as both 87% and 94% so that information seems plausible - although Elk haven't indicated that on their B2B marketing . However, not finding much reference (yet) to Buffalo Toro being 87% - so would be curious if you've seen it in the wild?

I’m sure I remember seeing maybe a Chopley Or Daz ‘bonanza’ Slayer G video that looked into how they made the decision to remove autos and indeed it was based on some questions they put to a very small number of addicts.

Someone at the UKGC clearly had an agenda, because the data mentioned in the

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doesn't really support the conclusion - even with the loaded questions about auto-play in the gamcare survey of 33 people - half to two thirds agreed... not far off the percentage using autoplay in the first place! Of course it'll contribute to something if you use it... that doesn't necessarily mean it's the cause.

I could have seen a justification to reduce to 50 spins, or banning pragmatic's ultra-mega-turbo spins (which was the main issue, and got blocked anyway with the 2.5s rule) - but there was a lot of positive data that was straight up ignored in the summary - auto-play users tended to stake smaller (but play longer - which comes to another of their crusades, banning "simultaneous play across multiple products" or gambling not being the primary activity e.g. slots + youtube), some players used auto-play for managing their play, auto-play spins can be slower than casual play, and the elephant in the room that is accessibility support... something that still hasn't been fixed to this day.

 

[Luckyscouser45]

Talking of hills they’ve just today slapped a bag a month net deposit limit on my account.

Bang goes my chance of a feature on Tyrant King Megaways on min stake then ffs.

Wankers.

William Hill are very strange lately. I had a stuck game round On chilli heat megways so went onto chat and the next day got a blackmail type email saying more or less if I go back onto chat they'll restrict me, I didn't reply then a few days later I got another email saying they had put a £150 loss limit on account and restricted all promotions included the shitty bonus drop. Funny thing is they didn't put a limit when i was down on the site for years but the one month I was up by £1.6k they restrict me and add loss limits. Complete scum

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Seems a lot of the ‘UK’ and indeed other bookie sites are slapping random deposit limit/loss limits on people.

They must know something is coming…..

Which is concerning.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I’m sure I remember seeing maybe a Chopley Or Daz ‘bonanza’ Slayer G video that looked into how they made the decision to remove autos and indeed it was based on some questions they put to a very small number of addicts.

Yes I made a video analysing the UKGC's appalling reasoning behind the autoplay decision, it was flawed beyond belief, below the level you'd expect of a first year university student. Their consultation and their conclusions from it were horseshit.

Once I get through all the reuploads of fruit machine emulation content on my new channel, I have a plan to reupload into a new playlist called 'Degsy's Choice Online Cuts' some of the better online slots stuff - this would be one of those videos I think.

As for RTP lowering I've been banging this drum for years, ever since VS first started shaving a percentage point or two off their RTPs.

Unibet Casino - The Last Bastion of Default RTP in the UK? - Page 3 - Casinomeister Forum

 

[jasonuk]

Not seen an email yet, but Playtech slots are now 3-5% lower as well on WH... seems like Playtech finally caved to operator pressure and started releasing multiple math models? (historically they'd release multiple games with different graphics)

 

[Mr_Slot5]

They most certainly are witless clowns......but I don't believe any small band of gamblers lobbied to have the likes of Autospins removed, and even if they had, the numbers would be negligible.

Because then that would stand to reason a larger contingent of gamblers could state 'the removal of Autospins is harmful to punters!', and have it reinstated. And before you know it, it becomes like a bloody yo-yo!

The saddest part is that the decision makers are non-gamblers and are treating gambling as a pestilence that needs to be neutered, to the point it becomes 'not gambling, really', and with each passing month it becomes more clear that these decisions aren't gambling- oriented, but something else.

Also the reason why they sit idly as Rome burns, because either they genuinely couldn't care less about some gambler's 'feelings', or they want the whole thing so undesirable that soon no one will want to touch slotting with a Bonanza-shaped bargepole.

And of course never ones to miss a trick, casinos and developers know the game's up and are pushing the limits with one last hurrah, via these borderline theft RTP reductions....

Are we heading towards a scenario where we're ultimately strong armed into signing up and playing at a government owned and approved online casino if we want hassle free gameplay? Is that the end game here I wonder?

I think the same thing happens in a couple of other countries as the banks reject withdrawals from other casinos. The game choice and pay out speed tends to be sub par at these type of places from what I've been told.

 

[mack341]

Not sure if this has been covered, but book of dead [with slightly different looking scatters] at WH is now 91.5%

I think we've now gone past the stage where the phrase 'when the fun stops, stop' means anything, as the fun doesn't even start on a HV slot of such low rtp.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

If anyone knowingly plays a slot on anything other than max RTP then they get what they deserve.

Hopefully those not in the know will get clued up at some point and banish these disgusting RTP’s to the scrap heap.

I’m sure this site and all the other affiliates that peddle this filth will be letting their ‘customers’ know in due course.

After all, they have their best interest at heart.

 

[goatwack]

I'm just wondering at what point your average newbie slotter will realise they're being had. Because if they'd shorn off 5% with the games of say 2012-14, there'd come a point where I'd think there's not terribly much fun to be had, and bin it off there and then.

Also curious to see how much lower these slots can go, including the aforementioned bastardised re-skins of games some have played for aeons.

Or simply at what point anyone is expected to be enticed by waiting 1000 spins on games like BoD to drop the free spins, when one of its main draws was its fairly high bonus frequency. Watching Js and badly drawn scarabs repetitiously churn out 0.5x wins isn't what's likely to draw them into slotting....

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I don't see how a company as big as William hill needs to drop the RTPs so low?

 

[goatwack]

I think they're doing it because everyone else is doing it, i.e because they can.

I stopped believing casinos' spiel in regards to overheads and rising costs a while back. What's more likely is that they're all trying to see how far they can push things before players generally stop partaking. One last hurrah before regulated online gambling becomes unplayable....

 

[Lemon]

I don't see how a company as big as William hill needs to drop the RTPs so low?

Pressure on the bean-counters from greedy investors and shareholders. 91.5% RTP is an absolute disgrace but WH get away with it because they're a well-known brand via chain LBOs and have the financial clout to be able to use TV advertising to establish their online offering in the mind of prospective new players who don't know about or understand how RTP% works. If you're a household name you'll be a default choice.

They don't care about players though; they're just greedy cunts grabbing everything they can. There should be a rule in the new Gambling Act (whenever it arrives) whereby the RTP% of a slot is stated on the loading screen. Players will soon start to see the difference across sites and may decide to shop around.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Or a rule that 95% is absolute min.

 

[justdoit]

I play in William hill only in DOA and DOA2 both are max RTP

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

A prime example of complete nonsense, and the danger of having your own help files.

 

[justdoit]

A prime example of complete nonsense, and the danger of having your own help files.View attachment 174624View attachment 174625

I check on game both DOA says 96%, every casino gets wrong RTP when they tape their own one, same WHG Pokerstars all they miss inform

I double check it is 96RTP

 

[jasonuk]

They don't care about players though; they're just greedy cunts grabbing everything they can. There should be a rule in the new Gambling Act (whenever it arrives) whereby the RTP% of a slot is stated on the loading screen. Players will soon start to see the difference across sites and may decide to shop around.

It wouldn't require a new Gambling Act, it would be part of the technical specifications updated by the UKGC periodically (which is where the mandatory 2.5s spin speed came in, and broke a lot of games in the process). There was a period where some providers (including bigger names like blueprint) included the RTP on the loading screen, alas the pressure was too much and that rarely happens anymore.

I would say it's between this and the "max bet" button for the biggest question mark in terms of player protection - because it's far too easy to blame bad luck, players unaware they are being duped into playing a different game when those "required emails" go out with broken links, mazes of menus and the like which does nothing to alert players. Similarly reminds me of one streamer affiliate that once said "I don't care about the RTPs" shortly followed by "remember to check out the weekend booster" - yep, don't care about the 2-4% RTP drop, but shouts loudly about the 1% rakeback... jog on!

A prime example of complete nonsense, and the danger of having your own help files.

As exhibited by the award-winning Responsible Gambling operator who got fined £17m on the same day - funny how that got swept under the carpet despite being in breach for many months after a "planned migration" was used as cover to cull RTPs by 2%...

 

[TheAddict]

Note to William hill and their shady false advertising. Liverpool to beat Nottingham Forest at 1/1 is NOT epic value if Joe Gomez is playing.