- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Location
- England
They got away with the last one aswell!!
William Hill go even lower on RTP
- Thread starter Siohmy
- Start date
Wondering what RTP is? Find out here at Casinomeister
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Location
- UK
Meanwhile, in an "offshore jurisdiction"....
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Location
- UK
With the best of intentions! RTP on the fly.. how could it be anything other than a benign force for good? ?
- Joined
- May 10, 2014
- Location
- UK
It talks about eRTP increasing with rank, so I reckon it's a tiered stakeback program on top - for the low low price of one billion dollars ? wagered you can reach the rank of Legend and I guess unlock your "99.88% RTP" on a couple of games.
Maybe that's where WH got their RTP numbers from... they just mixed it up so it was 88% instead. The way things are going, we won't have to worry about that as we'd be lucky to get a tenner on the horses ?
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2021
- Location
- Over here
We’re talking about their “in-house” games here. So the likes of Plinko and other dice and mine sweeper type games. Do many people really play such games anyway?
- Joined
- May 10, 2014
- Location
- UK
Roll up! Roll up! Get your very small tweaks to your slots here...
If you click through, it doesn't tell you what has changed (yet again, although the astute will see "rtp-changes" in the URL) - but at least it reassures you that "Don’t worry, you can still play all their great games and head off on your next adventure." on the next 40+ slots to hit the chopping block...
We've already discussed Playtech, and having not seen received any previous announcements that list is far from complete - dozens of slots rather than two. The rest is the usual folly, 94-96% games now 92-93%.
If you click through, it doesn't tell you what has changed (yet again, although the astute will see "rtp-changes" in the URL) - but at least it reassures you that "Don’t worry, you can still play all their great games and head off on your next adventure." on the next 40+ slots to hit the chopping block...
We've already discussed Playtech, and having not seen received any previous announcements that list is far from complete - dozens of slots rather than two. The rest is the usual folly, 94-96% games now 92-93%.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2017
- Location
- UK / Switzerland
'Every so often we instruct our beancounters to review our collection of slots and make some very small tweaks then we contact the studios directly and ask them to provide lower RTPs for some of their games.'
'You can still play all their great games, like Reel King and Fishin’ Pots of Gold, at William Hill Vegas,where your next adventure awaits but your money won't last as long because we're greedy. Give us your fucking money - we've got swimming-pools to heat and skiing holidays to book.'
'Here at William Hill we want your money to last for less time than you're used to (when sat in the fucking barbers!), in the hope you spend more money than you intended to...'
...AND IT'S SWEEEEET CAROLIIIINE! DO-DO-DOOO! GOOD TIMES NEVER ETC...
Cunts.
'You can still play all their great games, like Reel King and Fishin’ Pots of Gold, at William Hill Vegas,
'Here at William Hill we want your money to last for less time than you're used to (when sat in the fucking barbers!), in the hope you spend more money than you intended to...'
...AND IT'S SWEEEEET CAROLIIIINE! DO-DO-DOOO! GOOD TIMES NEVER ETC...
Cunts.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Location
- England
Strike gold given away 10.5 million tho apparently.
Honestly just wish all these sites that offer all the shitty promotions would just shelve the lot and offer highest RTP.
Pretty much like 365.
Honestly just wish all these sites that offer all the shitty promotions would just shelve the lot and offer highest RTP.
Pretty much like 365.
- Joined
- May 6, 2019
- Location
- North West
Yeah I saw that. 10.5 million given away…but how many players do they have on their books and how long has the promotion been running? Not that impressive when you think about it.
Even less impressive when you think how much they’ve likely saved with reduced RTPs
- Joined
- May 10, 2014
- Location
- UK
I believe it's been running since February 2022, and continued to absorb other promotions into it - e.g. "Strike Gold Spotlight" would have previously been a standalone prize draw.
It's one of those where the devil is in the detail:
- a large part of the £10.5m came in the first few months - the previous £5m banner had been around for a while.
- initially it was in addition to other promotions, but now mostly instead of other promotions
- the rampant RTP cuts - easy to fund a temporary 1% kickback when imposing a permanent 2-8% RTP cut
- the daily prize pool is undisclosed - apart from stating "There are multiple prizes of £1, £2, £5, £10, £20 and a single prize of £5,000 each day." - so it's unclear if the prize pool is £5.1k, 7k, 10k, 15k etc
Much like past results are irrelevant to a random game of chance, past rewards are irrelevant to the current landscape!
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2013
- Location
- Kent
Heres a pic of good old BOD, running the max % rtp version at Playgrande casino. It says the same at Jonnyjackpot, so I assume it's the combined rtp over all their connected sites for those 2 time periods. That's a hell of a lot of spins, on one of the most popular games out there, seemingy over all their casinos. Only thing I can think of that might possibly explain it is there is that there must be a lot of other mugs who also play it on 1 line.
This pic below is Pimped, also running the max 96.5% rtp version, I never get on with it on 1 line but was gonna do 100 spins, csuse I'm that bloody bored.
This pic below is Pimped, also running the max 96.5% rtp version, I never get on with it on 1 line but was gonna do 100 spins, csuse I'm that bloody bored.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Location
- England
Book of dead is due.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Location
- UK
Is it due on Casiplay UK, 87% RTP?
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Location
- England
You play the game on anything less than top RTP , then you get what you deserve.
People should stop adding petrol to the fire.
As a side note……………… Book of dead is shit anyway.
People should stop adding petrol to the fire.
As a side note……………… Book of dead is shit anyway.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2013
- Location
- Kent
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2021
- Location
- Over here
Adding to this, anyone that plays Elk recent releases is condoning the release of new slots at lower max RTPs (94% in the case of Elk). Disgusting.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
- Location
- K2-18B
fkers they banned me after 5 years holding account fk them
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2017
- Location
- UK / Switzerland
Play it out for a 5000x and if it takes too long simply play it back round...
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
I was playing thunderstruck 2 at virgin games and I thought that's odd as the 'you've unlocked this achievement' messages were popping up when you get different types of wins, I was sure I had gone through all that and fully opened up all the bonus rounds as well.
Lo and behold when the three scatters landed all my bonus progress had been reset, that led me to think they've changed the 'version' of the game, so found the help file and yes they had switched to the 94% rtp.
Then I went on immortal romance to check that out, all my bonus progress was again lost and reset but this time the help file said the game's rtp was still 96.4%?
Could they make a mistake with this I wondered, so I played out the bonus and closed the game! The only confidence I have is if the rtp is mentioned on a loading screen or in the game's own paytable info etc...ukgc will have zero comprehension of this, no doubt, the wild goose chase you have to perform, I think these external help files have sure become more in use since rtp chopping took off.
Lo and behold when the three scatters landed all my bonus progress had been reset, that led me to think they've changed the 'version' of the game, so found the help file and yes they had switched to the 94% rtp.
Then I went on immortal romance to check that out, all my bonus progress was again lost and reset but this time the help file said the game's rtp was still 96.4%?
Could they make a mistake with this I wondered, so I played out the bonus and closed the game! The only confidence I have is if the rtp is mentioned on a loading screen or in the game's own paytable info etc...ukgc will have zero comprehension of this, no doubt, the wild goose chase you have to perform, I think these external help files have sure become more in use since rtp chopping took off.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Location
- England
Gotta love a re-wrap.
OliverCooper
Full Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2022
- Location
- Canberra
A little more and they will remove the RTP altogether and prescribe "With God's help"?
- Joined
- May 10, 2014
- Location
- UK
They've already removed the entertainment part... that's why their tagline is "beyond entertainment" ?
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Location
- England
Not long ago they were doing £200 bonus with 10x wagering that you could use on blackjack!!
Then 888 stepped in…….
Wankers.
Then 888 stepped in…….
Wankers.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
- Location
- K2-18B
fker no more £1 win ?
OliverCooper
Full Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2022
- Location
- Canberra
hahaha I didn't think it would happen So soon, they don't waste time, they don't even have time to entertain ?
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
Two games I played recently Avalon and thunderstruck 2 at ladbrokes are 96.5% rtp versions according to the help files, I hadn't played ts2 there for ages since they moved to the 94% version, funny enough my progress on unlocking the bonus rounds was still intact. Unlike at virgin where it was reset after a rtp version change.
[I got two very decent recovery wins as well in bonus rounds respectively on both games, whereas 94% games give no encouragement to play in my experience, dead as a doornail]
If coral/ladbrokes are returning to better rtp versions they should make some noise about it.
I think I need to learn how to do that google 'console' trick which shows you the rtp version in live time, anyone got a handy link to that explanation of how you do that... IIRC might be one of Chopley's threads?
[I got two very decent recovery wins as well in bonus rounds respectively on both games, whereas 94% games give no encouragement to play in my experience, dead as a doornail]
If coral/ladbrokes are returning to better rtp versions they should make some noise about it.
I think I need to learn how to do that google 'console' trick which shows you the rtp version in live time, anyone got a handy link to that explanation of how you do that... IIRC might be one of Chopley's threads?
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2018
- Location
- UK
The various Gala Coral sites are all creeping back to 96% slots of late. It’s good.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Location
- UK
Wonder if they saw a drop off in play on lowered RTP? They wouldn't do anything for the player's benefit I'm sure.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Location
- England
They put the prags back up a while back. Seems odd they didn’t shout about it.
Mack I believe the rtp check was for play n go slots only??
Mack I believe the rtp check was for play n go slots only??
- Joined
- May 6, 2019
- Location
- North West
To be fair to them, they were also the only set of casinos I have seen to date try to get people to defend the gambling industry against the draconian rules of the UKGC. 'the player's panel' or something like that was the name of the initiative whereby they wanted slots players to have input...I presume so they could present the findings to the UKGC.
Fair play to them I say.
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
I only tried 2 microgaming titles and was relying on the external help page you access via the game, surprised me and I stuck TS2 cautiously on 30/60p, it played okay although took about 400 spins to get the 1st bonus. Plays very smooth as well so I think Micro must've polished up their html version with updates. As it was very wonky before.
I can't get PnG to play on my old pc unless I use firefox browser so wasn't aware they'd also been changed back to full fat. That would be good news microgaming classics and the PnG catalogue they have back to 96%.
Would beat william hill into a cocked hat, their slots site is pretty useless to me, I can't bring up a full A-Z slots page, and I want to collate a favourites list of 96% games. So dead or alive 2 but not 1.
I'm on there atm, and am going to look for pink elephants [or pk2] as I recall it is still 96%.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
- Location
- K2-18B
I have account with partycasino for over 4-5 years now, they are same group gala coral ladbrokes, last month I won over 5500 and I was keep wining from small deposit like £100-£200 cash out £2000-£3000 funny they change my lost limit right away £200pm, now they asking more doc if I want bigger loss limit pm, I stop playing there they all ready start sending me emails we dont see you playing other bs, all casinos are the same now when you start wining they find the way to block you from wining
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2017
- Location
- England
Play n go haven’t been changed back to 96% they’re still on the 94%
It’s the Pragmatics they’ve changed back.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
- Location
- K2-18B
only popular games like book of dead are 96
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2013
- Location
- Kent
BOD and its lower rtp can fo. Play it when bored with spare change from the poker account at 94% on betfair, 1line/2p, over a peroiod of 3 months, rack up some 300 hours for it to roll in 1x 750xstake and 2x 400stake.
Give it a flutter at WHG with the odd fiver, accumulate no morethan 15 hours , playing 96% 2p/1line, in exchange for 2x 750x and 1x 1000x hits.
Each s**t PnG.
Give it a flutter at WHG with the odd fiver, accumulate no morethan 15 hours , playing 96% 2p/1line, in exchange for 2x 750x and 1x 1000x hits.
Each s**t PnG.
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
Ah sorry I misread the previous post regarding the check only working on PnG, thought it was too good to be true that ladbrokes would bring back 96% on those!
- Joined
- May 10, 2014
- Location
- UK
It might be November, but WH have got their Scrooge hat on already with another round of RTP cuts in the coming weeks... curiously they're not trying to hide it this time so I wonder if WH have been warned for their previous conduct given they are surprisingly candid this time around:
Given 96% was one of the features, no... no I can't enjoy all of the fantastic features ?.
Clicking through and we actually get clear, concise and useful information ? - no broken web of hyperlinks or cryptic "small tweaks" (well almost none - they do say "small changes" in the email title ? ) but a clean table with the current RTP, the "updated" (lowered) RTP, and the date the butchering will occur:
Once again, those that haven't been nerfed to 94% previously are going straight to 92% - so more than double the house edge in some cases. I anticipate we'll be getting another list of removals soon enough...
Given 96% was one of the features, no... no I can't enjoy all of the fantastic features ?.
Clicking through and we actually get clear, concise and useful information ? - no broken web of hyperlinks or cryptic "small tweaks" (well almost none - they do say "small changes" in the email title ? ) but a clean table with the current RTP, the "updated" (lowered) RTP, and the date the butchering will occur:
| Game Name | Current RTP | Updated RTP | Date of Change |
| Big Bass Bonanza | 94.02% | 92% | 09/11/2023 |
| John Hunter and the Book of Tut™ | 96.50% | 92.07% | 09/11/2023 |
| Gold Digger™ | 96% | 92% | 16/11/2023 |
| Scrooge Megaways™ | 95.98% | 92% | 16/11/2023 |
| Tempered Steel | 94% | 90.50% | 16/11/2023 |
| Eye of Persia 2 | 94% | 90.50% | 16/11/2023 |
| Fishin Frenzy The Big Catch | 95.32% | 92% | 23/11/2023 |
| Eye of Horus | 96.31% | 92% | 23/11/2023 |
| King Kong Cash Go Bananas JPK | 93% + JP | 92% | 30/11/2023 |
| William Hill Megaways™ | 93.50% + JP | 92% | 30/11/2023 |
| Hyper Star™ | 94.10% | 92.06% | 07/12/2023 |
| 25000 Talons | 94.03% | 92.09% | 07/12/2023 |
| Shamrock Holmes Megaways™ | 94.03% | 92.01% | 07/12/2023 |
| Book of Oz | 96.31% | 91.99% | 07/12/2023 |
| Luck O' The Irish Fortune Play 2 | 95.38% | 92% | 07/12/2023 |
| Fishin Frenzy | 96.12% | 92% | 07/12/2023 |
| Fishin Frenzy Megaways™ | 95.02% | 92% | 07/12/2023 |
| The Goonies: Hey You Guys!™ | 93% | 92% | 07/12/2023 |
| Chicago Gold | 94.20% | 92.10% | 14/12/2023 |
| Goldaur Guardians | 96.36% | 92.00% | 14/12/2023 |
| 7s Deluxe | 95.25% | 92% | 14/12/2023 |
| Bison Rising Megaways™ | 96.50% | 92% | 14/12/2023 |
| Eye of Horus Megaways™ | 95.49% | 92% | 14/12/2023 |
Once again, those that haven't been nerfed to 94% previously are going straight to 92% - so more than double the house edge in some cases. I anticipate we'll be getting another list of removals soon enough...
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- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Holy shit! They wonder why they are losing business to the Crypto sites...jesus
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2017
- Location
- UK / Switzerland
90.50% on a couple of them as well. William Hill really are fucking dreadful aren't they? They must be run purely by bean-counters, constantly looking to cut stuff away to save a few quid.
For standard games, I'd consider anything sub-94% nigh-on unplayable anyway.
Your average lowroller is going to glean diddly-squat from these iterations, and it seems like the concept of low-frills, budget slotting is being ousted, as the games are so High-Variance and sessions pivot towards big hits (unlikely) or shameful, quick bust-outs.
Great going there UKGC, you're fostering a new generation of tilt-gamblers
I'd commend William Hill for their stunning and brave disclosure of these ripoff changes, but with some of these reductions totalling almost four percent, it's clear who they wish to bear the brunt of their financial mishaps. And yet, there'll be those that play these games regardless.
Still not sure as to designers' indifference in all this, for as long as they keep providing mangled versions of their slots, at the request of casinos, then it just becomes a vicious cycle and terminal death loop.
Software developers' games should be released in one state, without the enabled antics that these casinos seem to thrive on presently. Wishful thinking perhaps, but the death rattle for UK slotting's already been sounded
Your average lowroller is going to glean diddly-squat from these iterations, and it seems like the concept of low-frills, budget slotting is being ousted, as the games are so High-Variance and sessions pivot towards big hits (unlikely) or shameful, quick bust-outs.
Great going there UKGC, you're fostering a new generation of tilt-gamblers
I'd commend William Hill for their stunning and brave disclosure of these ripoff changes, but with some of these reductions totalling almost four percent, it's clear who they wish to bear the brunt of their financial mishaps. And yet, there'll be those that play these games regardless.
Still not sure as to designers' indifference in all this, for as long as they keep providing mangled versions of their slots, at the request of casinos, then it just becomes a vicious cycle and terminal death loop.
Software developers' games should be released in one state, without the enabled antics that these casinos seem to thrive on presently. Wishful thinking perhaps, but the death rattle for UK slotting's already been sounded
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
So inflation at WH has been 100%+ over the last 2 years combined. For the rest of us it's been about 17%. Greedflation.
If they were selling Rolos your tube would have gone from 10 sweets to 5. If it were beer your pint would have become a half or a pint at 2.5% ABV not 5%. If they were selling 'fun' then...
Nevermind Scrooge, Shylock would be ashamed of them.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2006
- Location
- Europe
Exactly. +1
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
I wonder how many times they've emailed btg/evolution about the availability of a tighter version of bonanza 
- Joined
- May 10, 2014
- Location
- UK
It feels like that was part of the plan:
- Convert from reel-based slots (which can be verified by a technically competent end user) to scripted or "scratch card" slots (which cannot)
- Adjust the behaviour however you like - in terms of pumping up the volatility, the frequency of "just missed" actions (because it's no longer reel-based, so it's not considered deceptive under the rules) and other tricks to satisfy the zombie-like salivation for potential.
- Then start cutting the RTP on the sly - as much as we berate the UKGC, that one change has avoided some serious issues... in an alternative universe we would be having those conspiracy-style discussions about how slots have "changed", with little to no hard evidence beyond our wallets draining faster. Especially when operators claim it's the same game... when it isn't
I suspect they've been leaned on given the previous updates I received made no mention of RTP except for the occasional stray reference in URL addresses, and one a couple of years back went to a webpage with a labyrinth of links that didn't work.
We used to see providers offer multiple games (clones apart from the RTP) as a way around this in the past - but the UKGC really should have doubled down on the RTP visibility part and made it front and centre on every game...Software developers' games should be released in one state, without the enabled antics that these casinos seem to thrive on presently. Wishful thinking perhaps, but the death rattle for UK slotting's already been sounded
It certainly exists - I believe they use 86% forI wonder how many times they've emailed btg/evolution about the availability of a tighter version of bonanza
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2021
- Location
- Over here
Great analogies. I wish the masses understood this…
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2014
- Location
- stockport
The fact is that your average slots punter doesn't know what rtp is. If they did, then this wouldn't be happening at one of the biggest Bookmakers in the uk
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Location
- IOM
I really tried to push this angle on my previous YT channel (and here at CM too) back when VS first started dropping from 96% to 94%, to try and get people to understand that it wasn't just a case of 'I won't notice 2%' but a 50% increase in the house edge with ruinous long term consequences for the player across every measurable metric - and that they should vote with their wallets, not that it was within my power to particularly influence anything, but I did my best.
I showed statistics and everything, 'This is what, on average, it will do your playtime', expected wagering at lower RTPs, and so on.
94% was bad enough, 92%, for online, is larceny, I can walk down to my local pub and play random games on the digicabs set to 94%!
- Joined
- May 22, 2013
- Location
- Cumbria
I assume the indifference is because the providers also make more from lower RTP games.Still not sure as to designers' indifference in all this, for as long as they keep providing mangled versions of their slots, at the request of casinos, then it just becomes a vicious cycle and terminal death loop.
AFAIK, the slot providers are paid a percentage of the house edge. I don't know exactly what that percentage is. But for argument's sake, let's say it's 10%
A 96% game turning over £100,000 at a particular casino would give a profit of £4,000. At 10% commission, the provider would be paid £400, leaving £3,600 for the casino.
A 94% game turning over £100,000 at a particular casino would give a profit of £6,000. At 10% commission, the provider would be paid £600, leaving £5,400 for the casino.
A 92% game turning over £100,000 at a particular casino would give a profit of £8,000. At 10% commission, the provider would be paid £800, leaving £7,200 for the casino.
At 92% that's double the profit for both the casino AND the provider.
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
Yep. Half the spins on average as the RTP spin calculator demostrates for a 100-credit deposit:
Or in other words 1238 less chances to hit maximum win, features, jackpots etc.
Wondering what RTP is? Find out here at Casinomeister
