Unibet Casino - The Last Bastion of Default RTP in the UK?

[ChopleyIOM]

The thing that slightly irks me about this, I have to be honest, is that when VS started messing around with RTPs a couple of years ago I said here on Casinomeister (many times) and also in my videos, 'Vote with your wallets people, if players accept this 50% increase in the house edge, then the casinos will learn one major lesson from it, namely that their players don't care if they dip their hands furthers into your pockets every time you play'.

I remember all the rebuttals I received:

1) It's only a few providers
2) It's only 2% I won't notice the difference <<<< No, it's a 50% increase in the house edge!
3) I just play the games that only have a single RTP setting
4) There are loads of other casinos to choose from if I need to
5) The perks make up for it

I remember some folks even went out to bat for the casinos, bemoaning how the poor oppressed businesses have more regulation to deal with and how really it's the UKGC's fault and we should be cross with them.

And look where we are now, we're down to, by all accounts, one single casino group that is still UK facing that's running all the top RTPs. Perks have been devastated across the board, more and more providers are offering multiple maths models (it's harder to find providers that don't offer gimped games these days). On top of that I see the consensus has slowly come around to, 'Hey you know what, over time, you really do feel that difference between a 96% and a 94% RTP game. (Which makes sense because, mathematically, a 94% RTP slot will, on average, take your money off you nearly twice as fast a 96% slot.)

Corporations are not your friends, businesses are not your friends, they want your money, and they'll be nice to you as long as you're giving them your money, and if they think they can do anything, anything at all, and get away with it, that will lead to them getting more of your money, they'll do it.

The time to vote with your wallets was two years ago (I stopped playing at VS once the gimping started and I urged others to do the same), the horse is bolted, and there's no point locking the stable door now.

As Hudson famously screams in Aliens - 'Game over man, game over'.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I was one of those that questioned what you were saying and can only apologise for my naivety.

I cant remember my actual quote but I know it was something along the lines of 'the perks make up for it' and maybe even 'its only 2%'.

I didn't know better.

Now I know a little more, I agree with all you have said except that the time has passed for action.

The power is always with the people, the hurdle is getting people involved to do it.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I was one of those that questioned what you were saying and can only apologise for my naivety.

I cant remember my actual quote but I know it was something along the lines of 'the perks make up for it' and maybe even 'its only 2%'.

I didn't know better.

Now I know a little more, I agree with all you have said except that the time has passed for action.

The power is always with the people, the hurdle is getting people involved to do it.

The comment wasn't 'aimed' at you bamber or indeed 'aimed' at anyone, I'm sure people such as yourself thought and said what they did at the time in good faith

Maybe I'm just a bit more cynical when it comes to business/corporate interests when it comes to this sort of thing, plus I've seen how my main hobby of videogames has been utterly corrupted by rapacious corporate greed over the last decade and I could see online slots headed in the same direction once we started down the slippery slope.

That said, if everyone voted with their money today and moved over to Unibet then yes I suppose it could make a difference, they're the last group standing that are paying all the top RTPs, and at the end of the day, if there's no benefit to them as a business for doing that, they'll most likely just say, 'Meh, screw it, may as well lower our RTPs too, the players clearly don't care and will carry on giving us their money anyway'.

 

[dealer wins]

The thing that slightly irks me about this, I have to be honest, is that when VS started messing around with RTPs a couple of years ago I said here on CS (many times) and also in my videos, 'Vote with your wallets people, if players accept this 50% increase in the house edge, then the casinos will learn one major lesson from it, namely that their players don't care if they dip their hands furthers into your pockets every time you play'.

I remember all the rebuttals I received:

1) It's only a few providers
2) It's only 2% I won't notice the difference <<<< No, it's a 50% increase in the house edge!
3) I just play the games that only have a single RTP setting
4) There are loads of other casinos to choose from if I need to
5) The perks make up for it

I remember some folks even went out to bat for the casinos, bemoaning how the poor oppressed businesses have more regulation to deal with and how really it's the UKGC's fault and we should be cross with them.

And look where we are now, we're down to, by all accounts, one single casino group that is still UK facing that's running all the top RTPs. Perks have been devastated across the board, more and more providers are offering multiple maths models (it's harder to find providers that don't offer gimped games these days). On top of that I see the consensus has slowly come around to, 'Hey you know what, over time, you really do feel that difference between a 96% and a 94% RTP game. (Which makes sense because, mathematically, a 94% RTP slot will, on average, take your money off you nearly twice as fast a 96% slot.)

Corporations are not your friends, businesses are not your friends, they want your money, and they'll be nice to you as long as you're giving them your money, and if they think they can do anything, anything at all, and get away with it, that will lead to them getting more of your money, they'll do it.

The time to vote with your wallets was two years ago (I stopped playing at VS once the gimping started and I urged others to do the same), the horse is bolted, and there's no point locking the stable door now.

As Hudson famously screams in Aliens - 'Game over man, game over'.

Brilliant post!! 2% RTP change is huge.

Say you deposit £100 to play slots at £1 a spin. You will get 1666 spins on average instead of 2500 spins.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Brilliant post!! 2% RTP change is huge.

Say you deposit £100 to play slots at £1 a spin. You will get 1666 spins on average instead of 2500 spins.

Yes I've been banging this drum for quite a while now (not like me to bang a drum I know ) - it's really important that folks understand how what looks like a trivial reduction in RTP can have a massive impact on expected playtime.

I covered it very specifically in a video earlier this year (direct timestamped link to the relevant section).

 

[mack341]

If 96% rtp versions are available but all casinos (unibet aside) offer the 94% version, could this not be an issue for the competition and markets people. Different casinos, some huge with lots of money, may be viewed as adopting anti competitive cartel practices.

The rtp display requirements don't help, as really it is the average cost of playing the particular game, to be compared to others - so should not be hidden and time consuming to find.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

In fact @dunover has put that spreadsheet on a page on his site.

Just try putting some numbers in for yourself and see what happens when you drop a game from 96% to 94%.

These are the massive changes that a small reduction in RTP can lead to that dealer wins is referring to above.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[bamberfishcake]

If 96% rtp versions are available but all casinos (unibet aside) offer the 94% version, could this not be an issue for the competition and markets people. Different casinos, some huge with lots of money, may be viewed as adopting anti competitive cartel practices.

The rtp display requirements don't help, as really it is the average cost of playing the particular game, to be compared to others - so should not be hidden and time consuming to find.

I agree Mack, this reminds me of the price-fixing done by utility companies in the UK.

One big difference is that you have to pay for utilities but, of course, gambling you don't have to do.

But then again, it's hardly responsible when dealing with addicts. And a lot of it went on during the pandemic, shameless really.

It would be easier to swallow if it was all above board but I've said it before and ill say it again - the average player thinks they play the same game no matter where they play, and why wouldn't they? It's quite unique, very sneaky and a con.

 

[satchnz]

The thing that slightly irks me about this, I have to be honest, is that when VS started messing around with RTPs a couple of years ago I said here on Casinomeister (many times) and also in my videos, 'Vote with your wallets people, if players accept this 50% increase in the house edge, then the casinos will learn one major lesson from it, namely that their players don't care if they dip their hands furthers into your pockets every time you play'.

I remember all the rebuttals I received:

1) It's only a few providers
2) It's only 2% I won't notice the difference <<<< No, it's a 50% increase in the house edge!
3) I just play the games that only have a single RTP setting
4) There are loads of other casinos to choose from if I need to
5) The perks make up for it

I remember some folks even went out to bat for the casinos, bemoaning how the poor oppressed businesses have more regulation to deal with and how really it's the UKGC's fault and we should be cross with them.

And look where we are now, we're down to, by all accounts, one single casino group that is still UK facing that's running all the top RTPs. Perks have been devastated across the board, more and more providers are offering multiple maths models (it's harder to find providers that don't offer gimped games these days). On top of that I see the consensus has slowly come around to, 'Hey you know what, over time, you really do feel that difference between a 96% and a 94% RTP game. (Which makes sense because, mathematically, a 94% RTP slot will, on average, take your money off you nearly twice as fast a 96% slot.)

Corporations are not your friends, businesses are not your friends, they want your money, and they'll be nice to you as long as you're giving them your money, and if they think they can do anything, anything at all, and get away with it, that will lead to them getting more of your money, they'll do it.

The time to vote with your wallets was two years ago (I stopped playing at VS once the gimping started and I urged others to do the same), the horse is bolted, and there's no point locking the stable door now.

As Hudson famously screams in Aliens - 'Game over man, game over'.

I agree with you. The only issue is the small percentage of players who know what RTP is, or that payback rates can vary for the same slot at different casinos. The effort always needed to be, and still is, to educate people on what RTP is and how it impacts their game time.

 

[goatwack]

Exactly. Most players are in a hurry to press 'Spin' on their favourite games and believe that a reduction in RTP is irrelevant to their 'knowledge' of that game.

Most won't count how many extra spins they had on their deposit, they just know 'roughly' when the bonus is due to come around.

Somehow, somewhere, casinos got wind of this and realized that we don't realize diddly- squat. And of course once that trend started, the casino greed took over. And this is common in other mediums too, as mentioned. A few consumers can defy these changes, but if the blissfully ignorant majority bankroll these companies' practices, it all counts for nowt I'm afraid!

Would love to see the UKGC set what they consider a 'fair' RTP minimum in the 90%s, or prohibit casinos from lowering them within e.g six months etc

And the RTP calculator should be adopted and mandated on every casino homepage as a heads-up to give unwitting players a basic concept of RTP workings. But then I'd also like breakfast in bed every morning followed by a striptease, doesn't mean it's gonna happen

 

[Reelsoffun]

Would love to see the UKGC set what they consider a 'fair' RTP minimum in the 90%s, or prohibit casinos from lowering them within e.g six months etc

They would probably just go with the UK legal default minimum on AWPs and club machines etc 70/72% so I wouldn't ask them squat!

My local LB casino is still around 90% on most their slots and have been years.

 

[satchnz]

But then I'd also like breakfast in bed every morning followed by a striptease, doesn't mean it's gonna happen

Get them to raise the RTPs high enough and you could perhaps make this happen?

 

[Supababe]

In fact @dunover has put that spreadsheet on a page on his site.

Just try putting some numbers in for yourself and see what happens when you drop a game from 96% to 94%.

These are the massive changes that a small reduction in RTP can lead to that dealer wins is referring to above.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

View attachment 159810View attachment 159811

Unibet is my go to casino purely because, for most providers, it shows you an opening screen with rtp, volatility etc before entering the game, which I think is a fantastic way to run a casino. No trawling and digging around through menus to try to find it.

However, it’s been a long, long time since I have seen any higher than 96.7%. But perhaps it’s just my shitty choice of games causing that.

a random side note, does anyone remember many years ago 15+ when video poker was actually greater than 100%? Not that I could figure out the strategy for hitting that return…. Lol

 

[dealer wins]

In fact @dunover has put that spreadsheet on a page on his site.

Just try putting some numbers in for yourself and see what happens when you drop a game from 96% to 94%.

These are the massive changes that a small reduction in RTP can lead to that dealer wins is referring to above.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

View attachment 159810View attachment 159811

Wow my mental arithmetic and rounding is still good to go, even at age 52. I honestly did not use a calculator when posting my figs. Maybe thats why I have made a living arbing for over 19 years now lol

 

[johnnymcc1966]

L and L Casinos playing with Novomatics at 94 nowadays too. Awful stuff. It's my own fault for not checking but I thought it was only Play n Go they reduced the RTPs on. No wonder I barely had a win on a £10 deposit. I got 20 free spins on a Play n Go slot and won 18p. I am seriously considering closing down my LandL accounts now too.

 

[slot_zombie]

L and L Casinos playing with Novomatics at 94 nowadays too. Awful stuff. It's my own fault for not checking but I thought it was only Play n Go they reduced the RTPs on. No wonder I barely had a win on a £10 deposit. I got 20 free spins on a Play n Go slot and won 18p. I am seriously considering closing down my LandL accounts now too.

IGT too.

 

[brianmon]

And any new MGS games, such as BDBA Megaways and Thunderstruck 3 (whatever it's called) at 94%

 

[Supababe]

I’ve seen a red tiger or 2 at 94 recently I think.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Unibet is my go to casino purely because, for most providers, it shows you an opening screen with rtp, volatility etc before entering the game, which I think is a fantastic way to run a casino. No trawling and digging around through menus to try to find it.

However, it’s been a long, long time since I have seen any higher than 96.7%. But perhaps it’s just my shitty choice of games causing that.

a random side note, does anyone remember many years ago 15+ when video poker was actually greater than 100%? Not that I could figure out the strategy for hitting that return…. Lol

3Dice have a full pay Jacks Or Better Video Poker with a 99.54% RTP and the autoplayer plays perfect strategy, you can get a good run on that for your money. I've had three or four Royal Flushes on it over the years.

 

[CasinoNinja]

Gamesys websites have them on max rtp, although it's fairly limited selection compared to other sites.

Bonus is they have their own unique slots though.

 

[dealer wins]

3Dice have a full pay Jacks Or Better Video Poker with a 99.54% RTP and the autoplayer plays perfect strategy, you can get a good run on that for your money. I've had three or four Royal Flushes on it over the years.

View attachment 159985

Blimey with a perfect play autoplay, that really is as good as gets return wise!!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Here's a curious one, there's a new game by Stakelogic at Unibet called 'Joker Drops', they show it as having an RTP of 93.8% and indeed when you launch the game and go to the game rules, that's what it shows. When I moused over the game and saw 93.8% I thought it seemed very low, hence I investigated further.




Go to Stakelogic's website however, and they show the game as having an RTP of 95.8%, so what's going on here then?

 

[dunover]

Here's a curious one, there's a new game by Stakelogic at Unibet called 'Joker Drops', they show it as having an RTP of 93.8% and indeed when you launch the game and go to the game rules, that's what it shows. When I moused over the game and saw 93.8% I thought it seemed very low, hence I investigated further.

View attachment 160164
View attachment 160163

Go to Stakelogic's website however, and they show the game as having an RTP of 95.8%, so what's going on here then?

View attachment 160165

View attachment 160166

Stakelogic, like PnG, Red Tiger, Pragmatic etc. offer a variety of RTP models. Their 'factory' setting is usually 95-96%. Unibet appear to have taken a nerfed one. Developer sites always tend to show their default RTP.

Here for example is their developer game sheet for the one before this, Hero Clash:

I provide here both the lowest and highest maths models they offer, in between there are all the values in 2% increments from 88-98%



AND:

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Cheers dunover, so I guess the question is have Unibet made a mistake here, or have they made a deliberate decision to take a lower maths model of this game?

@Unibet Rep would appreciate your input here.

 

[pinnit2014]

Cheers dunover, so I guess the question is have Unibet made a mistake here, or have they made a deliberate decision to take a lower maths model of this game?

@Unibet Rep would appreciate your input here.

They also have the John Hunter, Bermuda Quest as 93% on the splash page but higher RTP in the actual help file.

Even with Unibet i still check and, whilst they're No 1 in my casino list, they're still a casino whose sole intention is to take my wages