Why is this acceptable in an accredited casino?

[LRDell]

Bank wires are basically instantaneous transfers from one financial institution to another. There may be a hour or two delay while it goes through the clearinghouse, but always same day. Even if a bank wire is coming from another country, it should be within 1 - 2 days. I know it can happen because in a recently settled dispute with an accredited casino, they wired the agreed amount to my bank and it was there the next day.

So even if a casino is not in the US, why is it acceptable for a bank wire withdrawal to take "5 to 15 business days" to arrive at my bank. The casino shall remain nameless at this point because I don't have any other issues with them. But with this particular withdrawal it already "got hung up with our intermediary processors and was delayed, but we have sent it again" (read "we are now starting over again with the 5 to 15 days).

I thought that one of the rules of being an accredited casino was TIMELY payouts. And this time delay is on top of a rediculous $60 up front fee and a warning that intermediary banks might take more out.

Thoughts? Particulary from CM folks who handle accredidation.

 

[chuchu59]

Even if you were located in different countries the wire should take no more than 2 working days provided all the banking info is correct. The fee charged by the clearing house is mandatory but an upfront fee of $60 is unacceptable. OK there are costs involved but I undrstand it should only cost something in the region of $15 and even then it should be somewhat shared between player and casino. In my region the cost of sending a wire to another country is $13USD + $15/25 intermediary fees. Though we should seek an explanation from the casino about the lofty fees and excessively long waiting times for the wires at first glance this does not conform to 'timely payouts'.

 

[dandan]

I started a thread on the same discussion re the ridiculous fees!!!

 

[The Dude]

It is acceptable since this is "par for the course" so to speak. If you are in the States - expect delays and them some. If this is unacceptable for you, then don't play. Either that or move to Europe. Simple as that.

 

[bigjohn]

I think the problem is how much effort the casinos have to go through to get the money to us US players.

All traces of casino involvement have to be thoroughly rinsed off before it can be sent. I would not be surprised if the payment had to go through multiple processors before being sent to the recipient and each middleman wants a cut.

It's a little like a mailman who has one house with a fence around it and an angry dog on patrol, you can't base his accreditation on timely deliveries to that one house. Some casinos seem to do better than others for a while until another one of their way points get shut off then they start experiencing delays and fees.

I don't like to say it but it's probably going to get worse before it get better. The fact is our government is trying to shut off an activity that they see as immoral and to a large degree they have succeeded but, just like prohibition, all they have really done is drive out the good guys.

Any payment problems we are experiencing with accredited casinos are directly caused by our Government.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It is acceptable since this is "par for the course" so to speak. If you are in the States - expect delays and them some. If this is unacceptable for you, then don't play. Either that or move to Europe. Simple as that.

Even here it seems most casinos have reverted to the "middle ages" when it comes to processing withdrawals. One has to remember that this is all electronic processing, no clerks with quill pens writing cheques on parchment, or contacting another department or processor in the chain by carrier pigeon.

The US aside, with the technology available in 2005 the vast majority of MGS casinos could process a withdrawal in 24-48 hours all the way to a players' eWallet account. Now, 2013 technology allows them to complete the task in twice the time. They are "having a laff" at our expense, but there is an implied cartel in the industry where this is something they won't compete aggressively with one another over bar a small few (32Red for example, and some of the larger high street chains).

My bank is very security concious when it comes to electronic transactions, yet I can pay an account (even someone else) I have paid before in about 30 seconds, and a completely new recipient in a few minutes, including the text/call containing the one time verification code to unlock the recipient. This is what banks have achieved with 2013 technology over 2005, when such payments took at least 3 days to reflect in the recipient account, one day SLOWER than the average MGS casino to eWallet timescale.

Players still play in sufficient quantities, so operators not only fail to compete, but regularly add a little here and there to the timescales to see what they can get away with, which currently seems to be 48-72 hours before players start to kick up a fuss.

If players did kick up a stink, we would soon see movement back towards 24 hours, even less, as the "industry standard". It really needs a few major operators to break ranks and compete aggressively on withdrawal timescales, and the others will soon follow suit.

 

[bigjohn]

Even here it seems most casinos have reverted to the "middle ages" when it comes to processing withdrawals. One has to remember that this is all electronic processing, no clerks with quill pens writing cheques on parchment, or contacting another department or processor in the chain by carrier pigeon.

The US aside, with the technology available in 2005 the vast majority of MGS casinos could process a withdrawal in 24-48 hours all the way to a players' eWallet account. Now, 2013 technology allows them to complete the task in twice the time. They are "having a laff" at our expense, but there is an implied cartel in the industry where this is something they won't compete aggressively with one another over bar a small few (32Red for example, and some of the larger high street chains).

My bank is very security concious when it comes to electronic transactions, yet I can pay an account (even someone else) I have paid before in about 30 seconds, and a completely new recipient in a few minutes, including the text/call containing the one time verification code to unlock the recipient. This is what banks have achieved with 2013 technology over 2005, when such payments took at least 3 days to reflect in the recipient account, one day SLOWER than the average MGS casino to eWallet timescale.

Players still play in sufficient quantities, so operators not only fail to compete, but regularly add a little here and there to the timescales to see what they can get away with, which currently seems to be 48-72 hours before players start to kick up a fuss.

If players did kick up a stink, we would soon see movement back towards 24 hours, even less, as the "industry standard". It really needs a few major operators to break ranks and compete aggressively on withdrawal timescales, and the others will soon follow suit.

Agreed there should be virtually no delay in countries that are unrestricted but as Bryan pointed out for players where the government is aggressively fighting these transactions it's a take it or leave it situation. I can get an instant transaction to or from a local business here too.

By my analogy with the mailman, maybe the mailman gives a neighborhood kid a buck to climb the fence and deliver the mail for him. That works good until the kid gets bitten by the dog. The next kid is gonna want 2 bucks because he knows what happened to the first kid. He might even want his friend to help him relay the delivery for another 2 bucks. So now it's 4 bucks and nobody is in a big hurry to go play with the dog!

Where these transactions are unrestricted the best method you have for redress is to vote with your wallet.

 

[maxd]

I think the problem is how much effort the casinos have to go through to get the money to us US players. ... Any payment problems we are experiencing with accredited casinos are directly caused by our Government.

Bang on! These days something like the following is the procedure required by a casino to get money to a player. Let's assume you are the casino. You need to:

- find a processor you have half a reason to trust will not simply take your money and skip away. Not a trivial task by the way.
- transfer a whack of cash to that processor -- typically an amount equal to 7-10 days worth of payouts -- and wait for it to arrive and be credited to your account. This can take up to a week.
- Keep in mind that if you transfer too little you'll just have to repeat the procedure which will, obviously, increase the amount of money you have in limbo and could very well lose if the processor decides to take the money and run. Or,
- if you transfer too much it will set off alarm bells at the DOJ and you'll almost certainly lose it all and burn the processor to boot. Potential down-side loss here is enormous.
- Assuming the money does get through to the processor and appears in your account (in full) then you have to start the process of getting it to the recipient's account wherever that may be. This is another 2-10 days depending on their account provider.

So there you go, 2-20 days depending on the parties involved, circumstances, luck and so forth.

The bottom line is that it it literally the Wild West out there for the casinos, and the players, in terms of moving your money around. And the reason is because the lawmakers have made it so: they have made it a crime for money to be moved legally so obviously that (a) removes any normal processing procedures from the equation, (b) invites the disreputable types to step in for a piece of the action, and (c) makes anything and everything a crap shoot because of what the DOJ may or may not do next.

The end result, unfortunately, is that you should be thankful you are seeing any money at all. Clearly it takes a pretty ballsy operator to get you anything, never mind in a "timely" fashion.

 

[dandan]

No excuse!!! You put money in ... in good faith... you expect to get it back! In a timely fashion... just as fast as they TAKE your money... and give it back ...with NO fees!!!!

 

[Balthazar]

Bang on! These days something like the following is the procedure required to get money to a player:
- find a processor you have half a reason to trust will not simply take your money and skip away. Not a trivial task by the way.

So if what these 3rd party processors do is a form of money laundering, it's no surprise that some of them are rogue. They take the money from the casinos and have to "make it legit" before sending it to the players. The fees involved for the casinos must be astronomical. I have questions (I'm a curious fellow) but I guess a public forum isn't a good place to discuss this.

PS: Maybe this thread should be moved to America the beautiful?

 

[maxd]

Maybe this thread should be moved to America the beautiful?

To limit visibilty? Don't think ATB is any less visible than this forum. Both require that you be a member and signed on in order to view the thread.

And fwiw I don't think "money laundering" is what the processors are doing. More like making deliveries in a hostile environment, like the old days when guys would take the mail by pony through Indian territory.

 

[dandan]

So true... I could ... if I had... much ill-gotten booty... then yes I would launder it in a casino

 

[Mousey]

So if what these 3rd party processors do is a form of money laundering, it's no surprise that some of them are rogue. They take the money from the casinos and have to "make it legit" before sending it to the players. The fees involved for the casinos must be astronomical. I have questions (I'm a curious fellow) but I guess a public forum isn't a good place to discuss this.

PS: Maybe this thread should be moved to America the beautiful?

If you're thinking the DOJ doesn't already know first hand how every detail of the processing scenario works.... go up top and do a search for the word Linwood.

 

[dandan]

or ill-booten gotty?

 

[dandan]

radar!!!

 

[bigjohn]

So if what these 3rd party processors do is a form of money laundering, it's no surprise that some of them are rogue. They take the money from the casinos and have to "make it legit" before sending it to the players. The fees involved for the casinos must be astronomical. I have questions (I'm a curious fellow) but I guess a public forum isn't a good place to discuss this.

PS: Maybe this thread should be moved to America the beautiful?

I think the watchdogs here in the US know how the processes work but it takes them time figure out who the middlemen are.

The UIGEA forbids US financial institutions from processing transactions they know are associated with on-line gaming. The Feds have to skirt around the main issue because outright outlawing it is a power that was left to the individual States, so if a transaction is 'dressed up' properly it should go through.

There is big difference how much effort different banks put into this. The names of those banks, the names of any processors, or the 'from' info on your check envelope must never be uttered in any forum or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Mousey]

I think the watchdogs here in the US know how the processes work but it takes them time figure out who the middlemen are.

The UIGEA forbids US financial institutions from processing transactions they know are associated with on-line gaming. The Feds have to skirt around the main issue because outright outlawing it is a power that was left to the individual States, so if a transaction is 'dressed up' properly it should go through.

There is big difference how much effort different banks put into this. The names of those banks, the names of any processors, or the 'from' info on your check envelope must never be uttered in any forum or anywhere else for that matter.

Maybe... we don't want to make it easy for them... but.... do you think the feds don't have people playing (and cashing out) at all the major softwares that accept USA players?

 

[bigjohn]

Maybe... we don't want to make it easy for them... but.... do you think the feds don't have people playing (and cashing out) at all the major softwares that accept USA players?

I wouldn't be surprised if they did although that might bring in issues of entrapment. I don't think it's at the top of their priority list but I'm sure they will grab any 'low hanging fruit'.

 

[LRDell]

Just sayin

It just seems a little self serving, when I know it can be done in one day. When CM asked a casino to settle an issue with me on a PAB, the funds were in my account the next day. Why can that place do it (although I haven't had a regular withdrawal through them yet), and others take weeks.

Thank you for all the input. Bryan - I think your "it's acceptable because that's the way it is" is kind of like saying it's what the market will bear. I have very limited options - my state is even tighter than the US in general so I have virtually no e wallets available. So what you are basically saying is that if I want to play, this is the price.

 

[Mousey]

I wouldn't be surprised if they did although that might bring in issues of entrapment. I don't think it's at the top of their priority list but I'm sure they will grab any 'low hanging fruit'.

'entrapment'? The DOJ ran Linwood, processing payouts for the casinos and poker rooms for 2 years.... and they did a darn good job, too... we were paid quite speedily during that short time span... LOL This all came out during the Blue Monday shake down. The feds entrap and extort at the drop of a hat and get away with it. They also had agents play at casinos - part of their 'undercover' operation, ya see.

Post UIGEA processing payouts has been the big white elephant in the living room. No one likes it, no one wants it there, no one likes dealing with the crap, but we can't get rid of it.

 

[chuchu59]

Through no fault of their own USA players are already limited to playing at far fewer casinos than previously with a narrow choice of payment methods. Most players accept that there will be delays in receiving payments but the casinos should try to make it hassle-free for them and must not slap them with ludicrous fees such that cannot reasonably be accounted for. To the casual observer it seems like a case of fleecing the hapless lamb so the casino which is an accredited one should at least explain why upfront fees are necessary especially when others like Inetbet and Slotocash dont charge them. Casinos should not give an impression they stand to profit from the introduction of the fees. They should also try to examine ways to speed up their payments to keep up with their rivals to retain this important group of players. If and when online gambling is legalised in the USA these players will not forget in a hurry.

 

[secret2]

NJ , USA apparently, is one state that is legal...Andrew Cuomo, NY seems like he will be a hard nut to crack...but, yes..I will, for one, be a 'customer' that won't forget.

 

[maxd]

It just seems a little self serving, when I know it can be done in one day. When CM asked a casino to settle an issue with me on a PAB, the funds were in my account the next day.

Comparing a special circumstance like that to everyday business is comparing apples and orange sorbet: not the same thing at all.

That said it is quite true that some operators are using the US situation to slow-pay on withdrawals. We flag those situations where we find them and you'd be well advised to avoid the casinos so named, obviously. See the "Not Recommended" item for Lock Casino, for example.

So what you are basically saying is that if I want to play, this is the price.

Yes, under the current circumstances that would be a fair summary of the situation. Was that not made clear by my explanation of where things stand? Or did you just choose not to read it? Seems we've had that problem already recently have we not?

 

[KasinoKing]

The fact is our government is trying to shut off an activity that they see as immoral and to a large degree they have succeeded but, just like prohibition, all they have really done is drive out the good guys.

Let me correct your minor typo there:
"The fact is our government is trying to shut off an activity that they see as impossible to tax and to a large degree they have succeeded ..."

KK

 

[colly]

I can see two sides here- unfotunately for the USA player I can accept that a delay is inevitable due to the governments actions- however there is NO excuse where it is to a "friendly" country. I have also had bankwires take up to 15days (a;though Inetbet's take about 3days) and that is just delays on the casino side- similarly the excuse for neteller to not be instant or at the most 24hours if you work on a we batch payments at the end of the day. Ther is also no excuse for not processing payments on a weekend- especially to ewallets which operate 24/7.

I agree with VWM on this issue- we have all become so accepting through lack of choice or complacency or feeling powerless that we accept this as a standard- it shouldnt be - all times should be in line with the 32red group or inetbet if paying to a non USA jurisdiction- if you are open for deposits and play then you should be open for payouts- while there may be valid reasons on the USA side in other cases it is just delays or a hope that peoople will reverse.

Payment was much faster in years past- reversal times were usually 4hour or at a max 24hours- most casinos would flush (VIP or not) and some used the cancel the deposit methods on cc's.

In terms of customer service this is an industry where service and service times have deteriorated. The only way this will be changed is to vote with your wallets- I try very hard to only play 32red, inet and sloto on weekends and former favourites will get the occasional play on weekends but nowhere near what I used to- I find the temptation to reverse far too strong if I havent got a lot of available funds so the play is almost a waste of time. Even when there is a legitimate reason for not paying on weekends there is NO exscuse not to make the default position of funds not reversible.

Just my 2 cents worth- Reward the casino's that treat you well and cut back on those that delay payments

 

[Stovetopp]

I dont believe the US govt has anything to do with this delay in payments.

Its "good business " practice for Casinos to try and hold your funds as long as possible?

Remember the japanese guy in Vegas who won millions and was at the airpotr ready to fly home? Well the casino sent a limo for him at the airport
offered him a lot of freebies and he returned and lost it all in 2 days

The online casino is no different In the long run they will win so they try to hold you as long as possible I would if I ran an online casino. We in this free country of ours
have very little choice where to play.

Solution! Uninstall as soon as you request a withdrawal. The longer they take to pay , you take just as long to make another deposit I learned the hard way.

Right now I am itching to play but cant as I only play at 2 casinos and am awaiting "processing" I absolutely positively wont cancel a withdrawal. In the meantime
I will play online bridge which I enjoy or keep reading forum listening to the bitch and moan(mostly) and envying those cats from Norway and Sweden who are always posting
those wild wild wild screenshots
My 5 cents worth!!!
"

 

[maxd]

I dont believe the US govt has anything to do with this delay in payments.

So none of what I posted here means anything to you? Nor what Bryan has said? Just curious. I put a fair amount of effort into preparing that post, thought you guys would appreciate knowing what the deal is. If not, could have saved myself the effort I guess.

 

[vinylweatherman]

So none of what I posted here means anything to you? Nor what Bryan has said? Just curious. I put a fair amount of effort into preparing that post, thought you guys would appreciate knowing what the deal is. If not, could have saved myself the effort I guess.

It is the behaviour of a few in using the "US situation" to their own advantage that dents the credibility of the argument that the problems are all caused by the US environment. We have a casino that can't pay a US player and uses the argument that the convoluted US situation is what caused the problem, and then the same casino slow pays a player from the UK and gives them vague and wooly excuses. We know that for a UK player the only delay is on the casino side, so unlike the US situation, we can see something of what is REALLY going on.

Now, how does the US situation force casino B to move from 24 hour pending to 48 hour pending for it's UK players, and also cause them to do away with flushing on request? This has nothing to do with external forces, and is purely down to the casino being greedy in the same way that the banks fought tooth and nail to hang on to the 3 day clearing cycle until the regulators legislated it out of existence. It turned out the banks simply placed our "limbo" money on "overnight deposit" on the financial markets, pocketing the interest that belonged to the customer. Despite this being common knowledge, it took decades to force change because the banks didn't compete on this, it was an "implied cartel" that they could all benefit from, and customers needed banking, so we couldn't vote with our feet.

The same is true of the casino industry, the only way to force change is to quit playing altogether till change happens. The few players that will actually go through with this are not going to get noticed by the industry, so this will never work in forcing change. Like the banks, it is going to need a shove from the regulators. I am hoping that a suitable shove will come along under the new UK regulations, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Stovetopp]

So none of what I posted here means anything to you? Nor what Bryan has said? Just curious. I put a fair amount of effort into preparing that post, thought you guys would appreciate knowing what the deal is. If not, could have saved myself the effort I guess.

Sorry yes what you said meant something/, The US govt has something to do with it indirectly,
First we are a captive audience We cant run to 32 Red for eg

Thre RTG CASINos knows this and exploit it That is what I am trying to say
Do as VMW says vote with your wallet. After all they need your cash to stay in business too

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry yes what you said meant something/, The US govt has something to do with it indirectly,
First we are a captive audience We cant run to 32 Red for eg

Thre RTG CASINos knows this and exploit it That is what I am trying to say
Do as VMW says vote with your wallet. After all they need your cash to stay in business too

Well, with the recent developments in New Jersey, there may be an opportunity for many US players to experience legalised online gambling for the first time. I can't believe these NJ casinos will be allowed to take 5 days to pay, let alone 14 or more. I would expect them to be required to initiate a bank transfer the same day the player requests it, and it being in the players' bank the next day. The unregulated casinos will have to compete against this, and they just can't, but they probably can make some improvements, and entice players with the prospect of not having their activities reported to the IRS.

Next, players in Europe will see US players getting instant withdrawals, and will expect the same of regulated European outfits.

With luck, this will put the rogues out of business as they depend largely on prohibition in the US for their continued survival.

 

[just play]

Well, with the recent developments in New Jersey, there may be an opportunity for many US players to experience legalised online gambling for the first time. I can't believe these NJ casinos will be allowed to take 5 days to pay, let alone 14 or more. I would expect them to be required to initiate a bank transfer the same day the player requests it, and it being in the players' bank the next day. The unregulated casinos will have to compete against this, and they just can't, but they probably can make some improvements, and entice players with the prospect of not having their activities reported to the IRS.

I know this is a bit different, but it's still online gambling...my hubby and father both bet on greyhounds (I have gotten into horses, but haven't won anything, nothing new there, lmao) when they cashout, they can only do it by check, I believe, and it comes in a week or less.

But I agree, I think when US gets online it will be immediate pay. No way will we have to wait 5-14 days, there would be an uproar I'd assume.


edit...I forget how long and how we got paid years and years ago? Can someone tell me? My memory is gone.

 

[bpb]

I dont believe the US govt has anything to do with this delay in payments.

Good to know the seizures of FTP/stars funds in 2011, the seizures of CRIS/et al sportsbook funds in 2011, the quicktender debacle, etc never happened. Must have been one hell of an acid trip on my part.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I know this is a bit different, but it's still online gambling...my hubby and father both bet on greyhounds (I have gotten into horses, but haven't won anything, nothing new there, lmao) when they cashout, they can only do it by check, I believe, and it comes in a week or less.

But I agree, I think when US gets online it will be immediate pay. No way will we have to wait 5-14 days, there would be an uproar I'd assume.


edit...I forget how long and how we got paid years and years ago? Can someone tell me? My memory is gone.

Seems odd, given that here in the UK the banks are trying their best to get rid of checks as it costs so much to deal with them vs electronic transfer. Years ago, the UK government ditched the check based system "Girocheque" for the payments of pensions and benefits, and moved to a system of payment by electronic bank transfer. The cost savings were significant, as well as making the system more efficient. It seems the US like their "old fashioned" checks. Maybe this is because banking is done differently with loads of small local banks in remote rural areas that are perhaps not happy with "new fangled" technology like not seeing their money in paper form. There are many here who are unhappy with this new system of money only existing as bits of data, they prefer the feel of hard cash, and handing over their pension book each week to get around £100 in tens and twenties to put in their purses. Mostly, these are the pensioners, but a few others take this view after getting screwed over by the electronic systems and the electronic fraud it breeds.

 

[slotplayer]

Let me correct your minor typo there:
"The fact is our government is trying to shut off an activity that they see as impossible to tax and to a large degree they have succeeded ..."

KK

I always throught the real reason was about sucking billions out of the usa economy.

 

[just play]

VWM...Uh oh, I think I may be wrong...lol...no surprise there.

I just logged into my horse racing site and you can set up to send them money and receive money through your bank. Also, they have many easy ways to deposit, I love it!!! All legal. Nice change from spinning slots.

I will ask hubby when he gets home from work and update if he can use his bank or not for his site.

 

[Mousey]

I know this is a bit different, but it's still online gambling...my hubby and father both bet on greyhounds (I have gotten into horses, but haven't won anything, nothing new there, lmao) when they cashout, they can only do it by check, I believe, and it comes in a week or less.

But I agree, I think when US gets online it will be immediate pay. No way will we have to wait 5-14 days, there would be an uproar I'd assume.


edit...I forget how long and how we got paid years and years ago? Can someone tell me? My memory is gone.

Jumping into the pre-UIGEA WayBack Machine... Hubby & I used Neteller. We each had an account. Do a withdrawal at a good casino (or poker room), everything approved (usually same day) money in Neteller by next day -- at the latest. Places like InetBet and Global Player, it could take all of 10 minutes from withdrawal to money showing up in NT. Move money from NT to bank? No problemo... maybe 3 working days.

Gawd... I do miss it so..... It all seems so far away and foggy now... like a dream.

 

[bpb]

I just logged into my horse racing site and you can set up to send them money and receive money through your bank. Also, they have many easy ways to deposit, I love it!!! All legal. Nice change from spinning slots.

I love how internet gambling on animals with 25%+ vig is just fine and dandy, but poker and slots are the devil.

 

[LRDell]

Special situation?

Max - it's not that we don't read your posts (at least most of the time), but not reading and not agreeing are two different things.

The problem with saying "well, that was a special situation" is that whatever the situation was it proved that a timely bank wire can be done when the casino or casino group chooses to. And it's not like we are saying that they should have all bank wires to us the next day. We recognize that there are some intermediary steps, but two to three weeks?

 

[just play]

Jumping into the pre-UIGEA WayBack Machine... Hubby & I used Neteller. We each had an account. Do a withdrawal at a good casino (or poker room), everything approved (usually same day) money in Neteller by next day -- at the latest. Places like InetBet and Global Player, it could take all of 10 minutes from withdrawal to money showing up in NT. Move money from NT to bank? No problemo... maybe 3 working days.

Gawd... I do miss it so..... It all seems so far away and foggy now... like a dream.

I played before UIGEA also, but never had Neteller. I just deposited with a credit card and withdrew by check I believe. The checks took like 3 days to come.

I miss Quicktender. I used to cashout WAY more often then (it seemed I cashed out like once a week or more) because I could cashout late at night and in the morning the money would be in my QT. I hardly ever used to reverse, compaired to now. (well, when I win that one or two times a year, lol, I am the unluckiest person alive I swear!)

bpb....I love how internet gambling on animals with 25%+ vig is just fine and dandy, but poker and slots are the devil.

I don't get that either?



VWM....I of course was wrong...hahahahaha, are you shocked? Talked to hubby, he can set it up with his bank but didn't want to. So he opts for checks.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I played before UIGEA also, but never had Neteller. I just deposited with a credit card and withdrew by check I believe. The checks took like 3 days to come.

I miss Quicktender. I used to cashout WAY more often then (it seemed I cashed out like once a week or more) because I could cashout late at night and in the morning the money would be in my QT. I hardly ever used to reverse, compaired to now. (well, when I win that one or two times a year, lol, I am the unluckiest person alive I swear!)





I don't get that either?



VWM....I of course was wrong...hahahahaha, are you shocked? Talked to hubby, he can set it up with his bank but didn't want to. So he opts for checks.

Fair enough. Setting it up with his bank may be easier, but it means the bank gets to know a part of his private affairs he may not want them knowing about.

 

[anniemac]

bpb,

Where in the world do you play the horses online that have charges like that? We have a betting site that doesn't charge anything, pays the same odds as the track and pays within 24 hrs. via ACH. The reason that horse racing is legal in the US is because the 'powers that be' like to bet on the ponies or are horse owners.

I loved Quicktender and Payspark. But I am having good results with OKPay.

I have wondered myself if possibly some casinos use the whole US gambling fiasco as an excuse for bad behaviour.

 

[dreamguardian1]

Even if you were located in different countries the wire should take no more than 2 working days provided all the banking info is correct. The fee charged by the clearing house is mandatory but an upfront fee of $60 is unacceptable. OK there are costs involved but I undrstand it should only cost something in the region of $15 and even then it should be somewhat shared between player and casino. In my region the cost of sending a wire to another country is $13USD + $15/25 intermediary fees. Though we should seek an explanation from the casino about the lofty fees and excessively long waiting times for the wires at first glance this does not conform to 'timely payouts'.

Have you seen Bovada's fees for wire transfers. They are some of the highest in the world i think.

 

[maxd]

Max - it's not that we don't read your posts (at least most of the time), but not reading and not agreeing are two different things.

"Not agreeing" can mean one of two things here (afaic):

1. I expressed an opinion which you do not share.
2. I presented some information as fact which you either (a) dispute or (b) doubt the authenticity of.

If you believe it's a #1 situation then I suggest you read again: almost all of what I posted was fact, in other words the situation on the ground today. Of course it is my understanding of that situation but there you go.

If you believe it is a #2 situation, (a) or (b), then I'd challenge you to be specific about which facts are in dispute. I believe I can back any of what I said up with direct evidence from the field.

In other words I don't believe it's about agreeing or disagreeing. I think it's a situation which you either accept the reality you are faced with and respond accordingly, or you deny that reality and ... well, like I have pretty much said already, you're on your own there.

... whatever the situation was it proved that a timely bank wire can be done when the casino or casino group chooses to.

Wrong. What was proved was that the complaint and response process works pretty well with us and this casino and the particular situation you presented at this particular time. I repeat what I said earlier: management response to a crisis (your problem) is not and should not be the same as the regular and typical course of business.

All that was proved in your case was that if circumstances are favourable -- in other words they know you, they agree that you should be paid outside of regular channels, the money is available, and paying you isn't going to bone someone else -- then a special request by that manager can be processed quickly.

AFAICT your basic assuption is that if they did it once for you they should be able to do it all the time for everyone. If I've got that right then I suggest that what you don't know about managing a business, especially in the hostile environment described, is seriously imparing your vision here.

And last but not least you might want to consider the consequeces of being so monumentally dismissive of what the people involved did for you in your particular case. If you ask for help and people make it a priority to resolve your issue and they do so under difficult circumstances then you turn around and imply that they are negligent -- or worse, see the thread title for example -- for not doing it that way every time I wonder how motivated they are going to be to help you next time. Because they are professionals they'll probably do their best to ignore your bad attitude and treat you like anyone else that comes to them with a problem. None too wise on your part though, IMO.

In the end though, whatever, I'm sure you will believe what you want. I get nothing out of trying to enlighten you and none of this is going to change the current situation or how payments are being processed: the guys who are doing their best to get players payed promptly will contunue doing so and the turds that are slow-paying players because they can get away with it will also continue doing so. I recommend you might want to make a distiction between the two but that's up to you. Either way, happy trails!

 

[spintee]

Agreed there should be virtually no delay in countries that are unrestricted but as Bryan pointed out for players where the government is aggressively fighting these transactions it's a take it or leave it situation. I can get an instant transaction to or from a local business here too.

By my analogy with the mailman, maybe the mailman gives a neighborhood kid a buck to climb the fence and deliver the mail for him. That works good until the kid gets bitten by the dog. The next kid is gonna want 2 bucks because he knows what happened to the first kid. He might even want his friend to help him relay the delivery for another 2 bucks. So now it's 4 bucks and nobody is in a big hurry to go play with the dog!

Where these transactions are unrestricted the best method you have for redress is to vote with your wallet.

LOL with the mail man and a few buks,
were in the virtule world now, surley it cannot be that difficult to get a few quid to some1?
are the U.S really that stricked?

 

[MisterBJ]

Maybe... we don't want to make it easy for them... but.... do you think the feds don't have people playing (and cashing out) at all the major softwares that accept USA players?

If my memory services me right. Wasn't the US gov secretly processing some of these online gambling transactions, a couple of years ago?

 

[Mousey]

If my memory services me right. Wasn't the US gov secretly processing some of these online gambling transactions, a couple of years ago?

Yes. Linwood processing ran for at least 2 years. Set up, owned, and run by our own gov - and damn fine processors they were, too. Moved that money between players and casinos real quick. Actually, those 2 years were probably the best we've had it post-UIGEA. LOL