When blowing 2K is a good thing!

[steinhaug]

I was reading up on the bonus-whores thread, and desided to check out All Slots Casino with their 300% promotion since I hadn't used that one. So I did what I shouldn't do - I installed the casino and deposited 50 Euro.

I do not know what this post really should be about, but it sure as hell is a typical scenario when playing at the online casino, since things turn quite fast. So the possible moral of this little story is :

1. If you win 1-2K stop playing, withdraw and flush it. Watch a movie while the withdrawal is pending. Wait a day or two so other people can loose money - read : fill up the payout table again.

If you manage to do this, this post is not for you and you might aswell stop reading, if you for some reason find yourself returning to a casino later same day after winning, after telling yourself that you are satisfied - keep on reading!

For me this became a cheap 50 euro lesson!

So what happened was I started out, playing what I know and where to win, and after a few hours I was from 200 Euro up in 2000 Euro. This is infact very good I might add. I needed to wager 4000 to meet the promotion rules, and at the point I was up in 2049 Euro to be correct my calculations told me I had wagered 7340 - So I was well over and ready to cash out!

Wonderful - 50 euro to 2049 euro! Thats almost 2000 euro in winnings!

So I went for the withdrawal, and chose 1850 Euro so I had some left for playing later. But then I see that CFT, or refunds by Visa (refunds to the account you last deposited from) - which is my preferred method which for example both Spin Palace and 32Red has - was not here? Bummer! I therefore sendt an email to the people at the All Slots Casino asking them what to do with the withdrawal and if they had this method.

And here comes the problem - and hopefully someone can see a lesson here...

As most of us know by know, I'm a cronic obsessive gambling addict, or whatever you want to call it. I have a real hard time stopping, so for me catching this break felt real good I must say! It almost was like the winds of cosmos was breathing wind in my sails again, it was as if it was a good thing reinstalling the casino. But still, the money was in the casino and not in my bank account, I needed to withdraw...

2 1/2 hours later, still no email. I checked the webpage and no instant chat either. So I do the very stupid thing and start playing low wagering on Harveys.. We know that tune, and we know what the next part of the post will be... Attached you find the details for this session while I waited for the support to respond to my email.

Chart explernation
To explain the chart, SLOT is the slot, BET is the amount wagered on the spin, SPINS is number of times played, WAGER is then spins x bet, and WIN is the total amount won. The % is the result, where 100% is 100% payout, meaning I didnt loose or win anything. Red numbers are loosing, green numers are winning more than 50% of the wagered amount (Meaning starting with 100 and ending with 150). Finally you have totals in grey, and a total balance on the slot.

By the way, the chart is compiled by a little PHP script I wrote. PM me if you want it to do your own calculations from the playcheck. It's very handy in calculating the odds here and there, since I won't be playing more online gaming I don't need to protect my stats script either,

From 2.000 to 0 Euro in a 1.000 spins

As you see this session quickly shrank my 2049 euros down to nothing, which is of no surprise and it only costed me 50 euro out of my pocket. Its kinda obvious that MG was in eating mode in this session, or I might be out of luck - whatever the reasons here are something to remember :

Repeat : If you win 1-2K stop playing, withdraw and flush it. Watch a movie while the withdrawal is pending. I have done this so many times earlier, and I have startet playing later the same day only to experience a typical session as the one attached. I might be superstitious - but If you had your share of luck - keep it, dont stretch it!

My conclusion about online gambling!
For gambling addicts, like me again (I'm not proud of it, but it's important to mention it as it's people like me this information is ment for, so I hope I can help someone with this), online gambling in it's current state is far to dangerous. There are especially 2 reasons why I would say that a compulsive gambler must stay away from online gambling!

1. When you win money, you don't get them out in time, so a little mistake means you loose all your winnings. In time this means that you are loosing all the time, even the times you are winning!
2. As mentioned in my other thread, not keeping track of your deposits, you are infact able to dig a x2 - x10 (depening on deposit method) larger grave than intended... This might sound like a cool idea, but if you are planning to stay on this planet for a longer period than later tonight, it's a pretty messed up idea! Infact, the online casinoes should be penalized for this!

Lets look more into point 2 here, as I would like to add something here. This weekend we had a little vacation, and I filled up my Visa and used it alot, I kept track of all the purchases however and kept all reciepts. This was on friday, saturday and sunday that the card was used. Today it's monday and I checked the account this morning, every purchase was already visible on my account... Now how the heck does the casino need 7 days for something everyone else has fixed in 1 day? We know that answer and it pisses me off!

What this boils down to is :
The claim for the money is done instantly, however the money are not taken until you have had time to wager them atleast one more time.
When you withdrawal, there is a long wait before you get your money, and in many casinoes you need to look at your money from 1-2 days before they are accually processed, so that you can wait more days for them to arrive. (Which in the whole process you can with the click of a button reverse and loose them).

Where is the gambler's edge? All edges here seems to go to the casino! Even the promo-money have a 20xWager attached to it, so there aswell we have an edge for the casino!

So as a gambling addict I recommend all gamblers to use the landbased Casino for the following reasons :

1. You actively need to mover your ass to get there, you need to atleast do some preperation, meaning you don't go there everyday - and that is a good thing.
2. At the casino, you can buy beer and enjoy a cigarette (If your the smoking kind), you can enjoy conversation and look at other people play.
3. If playing table games, it's a heck of a lot more entertaining with real people surrounding you. Poker for example also "works" alot better when seeing the faces of the other players.
4. When you are playing, you have the money in your pocket, you insert them manually - and with this you have a pretty good feeling of how much money you are wagering. Online gambling could easily (as in my case) become plaing with numbers, where $40 equals 40SEK, and there folks - we have a big problem!
5. When you win, you get the money instantly! No delays, no pending, no papers needs to be faxed, you dont need to play for another hour since you havnt played enough yet... Point is - you get the money back in your hand! You now can start over at point 2.
6. Your probably drunk by now, and need to get home and sleep, remember that hamburger on the way!

Finally, I would like to say that MG has done a great job with the new games - Moonshine and Isis, real cool games. And I wish that I hadnt put so much at stake online, and that I had more control over my gambling, and that I accually could wait for a day or two without having to logon and waste the winnings... I wish for a lot of thing infact, but at the end of the day - I got myself a cheap learning lesson out of this and probably should send flowers to All Slots Casino. I know the tune of the song i missed... And here it is:

It's all a cliche for people like me
Remember the last casino I tested before I desided to uninstall was Roxy Palace, mentioned in the 5K thread. Where I started with 200 euro, and stopped at 1300. I cashed out 1000, but the 72 hour pending killed me. I couldnt wait, so I had to keep going, made the 300 become 900 - lost the 900, reversed the 1000 and lost them aswell. Deposited a fresh 100 more, lost them and there you go. Going from 1100 in winnings, to infact 1700 in winnings - ending with 300 in loss... Stupid stupid! Then we installi All Slots Casino, starting with 50, stopping at 2050 Euro - can't withdraw, need help, dont get help, start wagering again, loose it all.

But what if I got a response by email, what if I infact got my 2000 Euro out of the casino!

I would see the money back in my account and I would be very happy, I would have prooven for myself that I infact can play online and I can win aswell. I would then be ready to deposit a new 500 euro into the casino, I like having 500 to work on. I do not know how those would go, but if we jump 1 month into time - I'm sure that I would have lost much more than the 1950 I had in winnings! Or, I would win and win, I would probably believe I was king of the hill and do a "How to blow 10K" thread instead, so I believe it was a good thing that I infact lost the 2000 Euroes!

Infact - I feel great about it!

 

[steinhaug]

By the way, for those interested - here are the stats for the first session which won me the 2000 euroes. I'm sure some of you would like this more than the session above,

 

[steinhaug]

And here are both sessions in same stats. Total loss 50 + 150 in bonus + 10 from loyalty bonus, i made a 1000 loyalty points from the spins below.

Enjoy.

 

[spearmaster]

Thanks for that, Kimss - very interesting read!

I too recommend getting out when you hit certain levels that you set for yourself (for me, it's every $500). Trouble is, the last four weeks I have not hit that ONCE The month before, I could do that quite easily...

 

[managra]

Oh, Kimss, what a crazy guy you are! . I have told you before, true gamblers play to lose and you . . . well, . . .ahum . . . i think you get the picture . . .
I haven't the time to sift through all your charts and long posts but i did look at the chart how you won the $2K. You won by placing measly $2.25 bets!!! Okay, you still had WRs to go through (that's why i hate playing for bonuses)but in your shoes, i would have figured out a worse case scenario of how much of the $2k i would have to give back if every game would turn pretty cold on me.

Anyway, the thing is you look for all sorts of bloody excuses to keep on playing so that you can . . . L O S E . I know Allslots quite well, it's my favorite casino (but when i have a bit of luck there i stay away from it for at least a week; ditto with any other casino where i had some luck). I often call them on the phone if i have a question. They are very polite and helpful. They nowadays flush withdrawals within 6 hours!!!

So, kimss, stop giving all these reasons why you lost $2k. Please don't title threads "when blowing $2K is a good thing " . Blowing $2k is awful unless you had donated it to a poor soul such as me; i would have been playing a looooong time with that.

 

[Johnny Empire]

And the short version of kimss's post:

As most of us know by know, I'm a cronic obsessive gambling addict.

So stop playing. Cancel your internet connection, it's not like anyone really needs one.

 

[silcnlayc]

Truly sorry about your gambling problem.

The best thing you can do is to uninstall all casinos, but before then, you might want to impose a self ban with all the ones you have accounts with if you feel the need. (Just a suggestion)

Most will honor this request and close your account and refuse you any more play at them, and if you feel the urge to play, then you will have to go to the trouble of going to a land based one which will help slow you down some if this is in fact what you want.

 

[steinhaug]

I too recommend getting out when you hit certain levels that you set for yourself (for me, it's every $500). Trouble is, the last four weeks I have not hit that ONCE The month before, I could do that quite easily...

In my case, I am able to gain 500 credits almost wherever i Play, atleast 3/4 times looking at my stats for march 2006 (Not counting Riverbelle, and start with 500 credits) - but I just can't seem to stop. If you look at the session I won, and if you had looked at my other stats from the other casinoes you would quickly see a trend where the machines have good payouts - believe it or not. This means that if the machine has something to give, there are certain bets that will give you the payout within the first 10-20 spins. And again - there is no point in winning 1K today, 1K tomorrow and so - when you loose your head and loose 5K one night... Or when you win 1K and cant wait for the pending hours...

On the other hand, if you plaing below the $1 marker, winning 500 is pretty darn hard! When wagering $9 it's pretty darn easy... But you can't play for more than 30 minutes, since your luck will run out. And might I add, I've learned there are tactics that give better payouts on the different machines aswell.

Looking at Ladies Nite today - there was some stupid wagering from me. I should have stopped after 50 spins naturally, since statistically based on over 200K of wagering this rarely will give you a good win - and as you see I ended up with almost 900 credits in loss today on that machine, very stupid. Tomorrow however, I would say that depositing 150 credits and going 5.4 on Ladies would most likely give me freespins, and the freespins would probably give around 500. Also Tally Ho would most likely pay out tomorrow, since today gave nothing. Then again, we are talking 5.4 and 9 spinning here. There is some sort of system in this madness, believe me - but when you cant call it quits, there really isn't any point in going on...

If you look at Harveys, also based on over 200K worth of wagering, the only wager you accually win money are on $25 wagering... Which is kinda scary... So you better choose wisely the times you try 20-30 spins on $25, but when it hits you could get great wins - or you could get $80 as I got one time... Put it in other words, you can't win 5K wagering $5 (I'd sure love to see a screenshot of it), atleast you cant have positive expectations of winning it. With $25 you have positive expectations of winning atleast $2000, but you better not use 300 spins to get the bonus... On Spin Palace I was down over 5K historically on Harveys, until I had some luck when doing some $25 spins which gave a $3500 payout, some days later I had a $1000 win on $25 and then I pretty much evened out those ods. Loaded is also a very hard machine to win on it seems, so basically I would say don't play on Harveys and Loaded,

 

[steinhaug]

Oh, Kimss, what a crazy guy you are! . I have told you before, true gamblers play to lose and you . . . well, . . .ahum . . . i think you get the picture . . .

Hehe, I get it - man do I get it,

I haven't the time to sift through all your charts and long posts but i did look at the chart how you won the $2K. You won by placing measly $2.25 bets!!!

Not entirely true, there are alot of $9 and even some $18 in there, and not all $5 are 25 lines x 2,

Anyway, the thing is you look for all sorts of bloody excuses to keep on playing so that you can . . . L O S E .

Very true, and it is the point of my post.

I know Allslots quite well, it's my favorite casino (but when i have a bit of luck there i stay away from it for at least a week; ditto with any other casino where i had some luck). I often call them on the phone if i have a question. They are very polite and helpful. They nowadays flush withdrawals within 6 hours!!!

The only problem was that it was my first withdrawal here, so no withdrawal history was in place... So I needed some help, I should have called them but playing abit "secretly" in the house it's never a good idea jumping to the phone for the whole family to hear you. But you are right, we are talking excuses again,

Please don't title threads "when blowing $2K is a good thing " . Blowing $2k is awful unless you had donated it to a poor soul such as me; i would have been playing a looooong time with that.

Hehe, it's a bad title - but it's true for me. I infact think it was all good! I choose to look at it "casino-argument", I only lost 50 Euro...

By the way, I still havnt gotten a reply from All Slots Casino - it has gone over 6 hours now, so they could easily improve their support. But that doesnt matter anymore, If I feel the urge next time, Ill give you a hundred dollars instead, this way I will fell much better, you will feel much better - and I will only loose a 100 dollars,

So stop playing. Cancel your internet connection, it's not like anyone really needs one.

I work in a internet company, developing web-applications, so I guess canceling my internet connection is out of the question, But stop playing, oh yes, I'm still working on it - hopefully I learned my lessen by some twisted logic.

The best thing you can do is to uninstall all casinos, but before then, you might want to impose a self ban with all the ones you have accounts with if you feel the need.

I have alreadu done this, but today - after spending to much time in this forum nurishing my gambling needs, I tipped over and did a promo run, which the whole world now knows were went, I look at this as a little self-therapy in public, After all, you people in here are the best people to comment me, since you all have some sort of connection with gambling. Some of you are happy gamblers, and some of you are in to deep - but you all have in common that you know what gambling is, is you all understand me much better that Average Joe which doesnt gamble.

I know I gamble like an idiot, and especially online - but I'm starting to atleast understand what the reasons are why I tend to mess up online, since I dont't do it on the landbased casino. I have nothing against the online casinos, their fun to play in and you can win alot of money, but people like me need to face the facts here and there and understand why we play differently online and landbased.

The day online casinos can charge the money directly, and a withdrawal is done instantly aswell - then we have a good system which I can use, but not this system. I remember some years ago, they did it even better. You deposited $500, and if you withdrew $500 within the 24 hours they canceled the Visa deposit - so your account would never bve charged!

Now - I wonder why they don't do that anymore...

 

[managra]

Kimss, i hope my previous post in this thread didn't offend you. It wasn't my intention. I just find it so sad that an intelligent guy like you can't have the discipline to play slots just as a fun entertainment. You seem to NEED, for emotional/psychological reasons, those big wins and then things go to hell.
We all know that when we have a lucky session, it gives a great high and it's hard to quit. You just need to set limits for yourself at which point you will withdraw no matter what. Also limit the amount of time you play per week, since luck is a scarce commodity in casinos. Good luck to you and to all of us really

EDIT: Just as i submitted this post, i noticed your lengthy reply. Great minds think alike, we just bet differently Since you are not living alone, can't you get the support from someone in your family to tell you when to call it quits? Besides setting limits when to quit, you also need to find out how quickly a casino flush payments and how good their phone support is. I remember playing at Roxy, got a half decent result, wanted to withdraw but learned that they don't process payments over the weekend, so i continued to play with nothing left to withdraw eventually. This probably happens to a lot of people. So, avoid playing at casinos on days when you know they won't process payment.

 

[caruso]

Sorry, but I see nothing meritorious in any of this at this point. You are an admitted (that's good at least) gambling addict who'd uninstalled all casinos. However, you're still hanging out at Casinomeister, confronted with "winner screenshots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and "heeeeeey come play our coooooooool January/February/March/April/May/June/July etc ad inf / nauseum slot comp guys!!!!!!!" threads at every turn, you've gone back on your "word", reinstalled a casino and lost another 50 euros.

Now you've posted another thread saying busting 2000 euros is a good thing.

Sorry, I'm not convinced. How many more?

At this point I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but I'll say it anyway:

STOP GAMBLING. If you have ANY control at all in this department, GET OUT NOW. Dump the casinos, get all gambling sites out your favourites menu and GET OUT.

If you want to stay involved in gambling, volunteer for a gamcare type organisation and help others to REALLY quit. All you're doing here is fuelling your addiction and earning the undying gratitude of a bunch of businesses who really do not need your money.

 

[cheekymonkey]

ouch!

been there - done that, got the t-shirt etc etc etc.

really pisses me off to hear stories like this, MG slots are virtually impossible to win with

im starting to think the only way to win on them is to play the progressives and just hope you hit - all the others are just cash guzzlers

vul kimss

 

[Pinababy69]

The best thing you can do is to uninstall all casinos, but before then, you might want to impose a self ban with all the ones you have accounts with if you feel the need. (Just a suggestion)

Most will honor this request and close your account and refuse you any more play at them, and if you feel the urge to play, then you will have to go to the trouble of going to a land based one which will help slow you down some if this is in fact what you want.

That is the best advice in this thread....and much as I hate to admit it, Caruso is right. You have a serious problem, by your own admission. You need to take some steps to get back some control before your life starts circling the drain.

Don't just write to the casinos requesting your accounts to be closed. Be very specific....tell them that you have a serious problem, and that under no circumstances do you wish to be allowed to play any longer. You need to do this ASAP.

You are obviously looking for some advice or help, that's why you are posting this stuff here. I think you have been given some great advice by more than one person.

 

[jetset]

I'm with Caruso on this one, too - I don't like the way this is all going.

QUOTE: STOP GAMBLING. If you have ANY control at all in this department, GET OUT NOW. Dump the casinos, get all gambling sites out your favourites menu and GET OUT.

If you want to stay involved in gambling, volunteer for a gamcare type organisation and help others to REALLY quit. All you're doing here is fuelling your addiction and earning the undying gratitude of a bunch of businesses who really do not need your money. UNQUOTE

 

[winbig]

I have to agree on this too. Join a compulsive gamblers support group. Something. Here's a kickstart:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Groups for Norway

I guess I was sort of lucky. I started when I was 21 (Thanks sis!)...Won $300 my first time out, which was pure luck, and went from there. 5 years later, I had about $30k racked up in CC's. Good thing I never got sued nor wages garnished, or I'd be in worse shape than I am now (just bad credit and can't get a card anywhere).

Sure, I'm playing with fire nowdays I guess, but I have it under control. No more gambling with rent money, food money..you get the idea. I just see that's where it's leading with you unless you stop now. Don't say it won't happen, because it can, and will. I've been there.

I think back now and wish I would have maxed out credit cards to stick that $30k in Microsoft stock!!! (I think it was $10/share then)....I'd be a multimillionare by now and would consider opening my own online casino! LOL

Anyways, hindsight is 20/20.

This post wasn't to bash you or anything, but maybe a wakeup call? Nip the problem in the bud.

 

[winbig]

really pisses me off to hear stories like this, MG slots are virtually impossible to win with

im starting to think the only way to win on them is to play the progressives and just hope you hit - all the others are just cash guzzlers

vul kimss

I'm sure you meant the best with this, but there's a deeper problem here ps: Progressives can be cash guzzlers too...

 

[cheekymonkey]

(just bad credit and can't get a card anywhere)

thats probably a good thing though winbig

 

[winbig]

thats probably a good thing though winbig

You've got that right. I'm just lucky that there's a 'statute of limitations' on how long CC debt can stay on your credit report. It's 7 years. After that, by law, they have to REMOVE it.

err...at least in the USA it's like that. Not sure about other countries.


Before we get into a debate about acking up credit cards without the ability to pay, then filing bankruptcy, the USA has since passed _very_ strict laws on what you can and can't file against for bankruptcy...making it even harder for you to write off CC debt.

 

[cheekymonkey]

I'm sure you meant the best with this, but there's a deeper problem here ps: Progressives can be cash guzzlers too...

definitely winbig yes - i dont really know where i was going with that point

hmmmmm........well i do, but maybe save it for another thread!!!

 

[cheekymonkey]

You've got that right. I'm just lucky that there's a 'statute of limitations' on how long CC debt can stay on your credit report. It's 7 years. After that, by law, they have to REMOVE it.

err...at least in the USA it's like that. Not sure about other countries.

i think its 6 here in the UK - i cant really remember

 

[tim5ny]

Damn! the guy stumbled and fell a couple of times while trying to get things right. Scolding him like "Mother Superior" is no way to treat an intelligent adult. Any type of addict in the thros of withdrawl rarely makes it out clean on the first attempt, but sometimes needs to go back and feel the pain again.... maybe even several times before it gets through and sticks. Also, wheather he's gambling or not, I'm sure that he's developed friendships and aquaintances on this forum that he'd rather not throw away just because his casino accounts are closed, so to require that he cut off all ties to this forum also is putting quite a heavy burden on somebody who's attempting to make a major change in his way of thinking and living. I found his recent posts to be quite interesting and a hard slice of reality. Winning and receiving the 2k would have only started the viscious cycle again, but winning and re-losing the 2k only reaffirms to him that he just cannot control himself when he's under the spell of gambling. A lesson well learned and a confirmation that he's made the right move.

 

[liquidsoap]

Good to see you Cheeky.

Now for my opinion, when i first started gambling online almost 2 years ago, it seemed like all i did was get my $50 dollar deposit up to $200, then blow it playing higher, back then it was easy to win on slots for some reason. Some times id get lucky and Thunderstruck would yeild me a grand or so maybe.

But I think that spoiled me. Back then I would never blank out in under an hour, I could play days if not weeks on a single deposit. Man do I wish i still had those days, back then all I wanted was to win big, seeing how easy it was to get to $200, figured it would be just as easy to get to 10 K.

Now It seems like MG's payouts have gone down dramatically, the only other casino's I play that arent MG's are Sci Fi and Inetbet which Ive done good at Sci Fi almost all the time, and Inetbet was just for bonuses, to get more out of a small deposit.

Right now I am looking at the Vegas Splendido's payout reports for January 2006, it says total games 94.70%!
Now do the casino's really have it that bad that they cant make it higher it just seems like greed to me. Correct me if I am wrong but I seem to remeber it being like 97% at some point, the casino's arent hurting for money, now why does the payout percentage have to be so low.

Now i look at September 2005 report which was the last report Vegas Splendido had, by the way I never really looked at this until today, this thread got me curious. But it said total games 95.99%!

Now how the ^*#$ can random softare with a fixed payout percentage go down like that thats a 1.29% decrease in a few month span.

Now curse me for saying this but I will look at a Grand Prive casino that I have happened to get a nice snail mail bonus on that I wasnt going to let goto waste's payout percentage.

Price WaterHouse Coopers reports Casino Grand Bay at 95.91% in January, now correct me if I am wrong, shouldnt all casino's have realitivley the same payout percentage as the other, if they are the same software provider??


Now here is where it gets really interesting!
Phoenician Casino has a little record of its Payout percentage going, in Febuarary 2005, Phoenician total game payout percentage was 98.79, and there poker games payed out at more then 100%.

That is about the same payout percentage as most land based casino's.

Back in the day, online casino's would be fun. Play all day when its miserable outside, maybe lose a few bucks, or make a few.

Now it seems that, play for 20 minutes betting .45, and you lose you shirt tale.

And now its got me really peved off!

And the sad thing is its not only more depressing now, but its more addictive when you are losing.

MG and other's, go back to the 99% payout days, you are still making money, and I am sure I will still provide you with my hard earned Cash.

I mean you got these dang promotions, sorry bellerock~ but your promo is a perfect example. O spend this and deposit that, and you get points to bid on special prizes, how about you stop spending our losing on that and make the payout percentages a bit higher, it will make me happier and just about all the online gambling world.

But come on its not even gambling anymore its just losing.
This is what greed has brought to the world.

Man I dont see how you do it John Steed, I need a drink.

edit: sorry if this thread is a bit off topic, but I had to get it out

 

[Pinababy69]

Scolding him like "Mother Superior" is no way to treat an intelligent adult.

Also, whether he's gambling or not, I'm sure that he's developed friendships and aquaintances on this forum that he'd rather not throw away just because his casino accounts are closed, so to require that he cut off all ties to this forum also is putting quite a heavy burden on somebody who's attempting to make a major change in his way of thinking and living.

Sure hope you weren't referring to me with that Mother Superior quote? You of all people should know better than that. I just worry about people who are this deep into it.

As to the friendships developed, I absolutely agree. If I stopped gambling tomorrow, I'd still come to Casinomeister. I couldn't stay away from all you wonderful people. And it can be a support group of sorts, at least we understand and can sympathize, and I think we've all gained some insight into ourselves the last month or so with all these threads relating to gambling and it's pitfalls. I sure didn't mean to preach at anyone, and if it came across that way, I apologize. I just hate to see people throw their lives away, when they've already admitted they have a problem, and the solution is right there. They just need to reach out and grab it.

 

[cheekymonkey]

Good to see you Cheeky.

Now for my opinion, when i first started gambling online almost 2 years ago, it seemed like all i did was get my $50 dollar deposit up to $200, then blow it playing higher, back then it was easy to win on slots for some reason. Some times id get lucky and Thunderstruck would yeild me a grand or so maybe.

But I think that spoiled me. Back then I would never blank out in under an hour, I could play days if not weeks on a single deposit. Man do I wish i still had those days, back then all I wanted was to win big, seeing how easy it was to get to $200, figured it would be just as easy to get to 10 K.

Now It seems like MG's payouts have gone down dramatically, the only other casino's I play that arent MG's are Sci Fi and Inetbet which Ive done good at Sci Fi almost all the time, and Inetbet was just for bonuses, to get more out of a small deposit.

Right now I am looking at the Vegas Splendido's payout reports for January 2006, it says total games 94.70%!
Now do the casino's really have it that bad that they cant make it higher it just seems like greed to me. Correct me if I am wrong but I seem to remeber it being like 97% at some point, the casino's arent hurting for money, now why does the payout percentage have to be so low.

Now i look at September 2005 report which was the last report Vegas Splendido had, by the way I never really looked at this until today, this thread got me curious. But it said total games 95.99%!

Now how the ^*#$ can random softare with a fixed payout percentage go down like that thats a 1.29% decrease in a few month span.

Now curse me for saying this but I will look at a Grand Prive casino that I have happened to get a nice snail mail bonus on that I wasnt going to let goto waste's payout percentage.

Price WaterHouse Coopers reports Casino Grand Bay at 95.91% in January, now correct me if I am wrong, shouldnt all casino's have realitivley the same payout percentage as the other, if they are the same software provider??


Now here is where it gets really interesting!
Phoenician Casino has a little record of its Payout percentage going, in Febuarary 2005, Phoenician total game payout percentage was 98.79, and there poker games payed out at more then 100%.

That is about the same payout percentage as most land based casino's.

Back in the day, online casino's would be fun. Play all day when its miserable outside, maybe lose a few bucks, or make a few.

Now it seems that, play for 20 minutes betting .45, and you lose you shirt tale.

And now its got me really peved off!

And the sad thing is its not only more depressing now, but its more addictive when you are losing.

MG and other's, go back to the 99% payout days, you are still making money, and I am sure I will still provide you with my hard earned Cash.

I mean you got these dang promotions, sorry bellerock~ but your promo is a perfect example. O spend this and deposit that, and you get points to bid on special prizes, how about you stop spending our losing on that and make the payout percentages a bit higher, it will make me happier and just about all the online gambling world.

But come on its not even gambling anymore its just losing.
This is what greed has brought to the world.

Man I dont see how you do it John Steed, I need a drink.

edit: sorry if this thread is a bit off topic, but I had to get it out

hi liquidsoap

why does this sound so familiar!!??!!

MG certainly know what they are doing with reference to their software - my brother frequently visits GA and there is a guy that used to work for MG that goes too!! - believe this or not, but this guy, ironically, became addicted to the software that he (well 'he' being him and the rest of his colleagues) actually wrote!! but, he has INSISTED that the RNG that the sofware uses is 'random' BUT they (being MG) can possibly turn down/up the payout percentages not to an individual person/account but as a whole - a slight reassurance for you all paranoid players

apparently all MG casinos link to 1 MG server - i dont know how true this is, but i intend to meet this guy to try and find out more information

i will keep you informed...

 

[tim5ny]

Sure hope you weren't referring to me with that Mother Superior quote? You of all people should know better than that. I just worry about people who are this deep into it.

Hey Lisa! You just reminded me of old song from the 80's I believe!

It's called "Paranoia will Destroy ya!

 

[Pinababy69]

Hey Lisa! You just reminded me of old song from the 80's I believe!

It's called "Paranoia will Destroy ya!

You're that old??? And I am not paranoid!! Yes, you are....no, I'm not.

 

[Pinababy69]

Hey Tim...only two posts to go, woo hoo!! 1000 here ya come. Now where's Simmo with that "ban" button?

 

[tim5ny]

You're that old??? And I am not paranoid!! Yes, you are....no, I'm not.

I think you're confused with Schizophrenia... which reminds me of a poem!

Roses are red, violets are blue, Im a Schizophrenic, and so am I!

 

[spearmaster]

You guys are being way too harsh on kimss.

First of all, the net loss was $50.

Secondly, none of you recognized the fact that the post is very long, quite detailed, and even has useful advice in it. All you can focus on is the fact that kimss "admits" to be a chronic gambler.

I think Kim was exaggerating a bit for the sake of making the read more interesting. Chronic or not, a compulsive gambler would:

a. Probably not have been able to put together such a detailed explanation or post - especially because they would have been too depressed to do so

b. Probably lost way more than $50 net.

I was going to ask people to lighten up earlier but after managra's second post I thought the tide was changing. Obviously I was wrong.

So now I'm going to do it.

Lighten up, people. Let's not all jump on this bandwagon too soon. Give kimss some credit for those posts...

 

[managra]

I just hate to see people throw their lives away, when they've already admitted they have a problem, and the solution is right there. They just need to reach out and grab it.

Who doesn't have a problem? Who doesn't have some sort of addiction? Kimss has come to realize that he has a tough time quitting when he wins big. I credit him with enough intelligence to deal with it sooner or later. It isn't like he has orchestrated a major heist of the Central Bank of Norway in order to finance his Thunderstruck addiction.

 

[steinhaug]

Sorry, I'm not convinced. How many more?

Ouch! But you are very right, let's hope there is no more of theese slips,

Don't just write to the casinos requesting your accounts to be closed. Be very specific....tell them that you have a serious problem, and that under no circumstances do you wish to be allowed to play any longer. You need to do this ASAP.

And especially this part :

and that under no circumstances do you wish to be allowed to play any longer

I havn't gone this far in the emails to them, but at this point in my online career I'm quite sure you are right. I just need to let those words sink for a while, They are hard words to consume for a gambler.

I have to agree on this too. Join a compulsive gamblers support group. Something. Here's a kickstart:

Jepp, this is very true. Been there before infact, but maby it's time to hit the decks again. Problem is I would then need to quit the landbased casino aswell, and I don't have the "can't stop, must gamble away all the money" problem there... You can't very much attend to AA-meetings when you are drinking in the weekends...

So it's a pickle at the moment for me, thats why I thought I might control myself and get some wisdom from you people which I have. (But I failed myself by loosing control). I really enjoy the conversation with you, even If it might be a little "Casinomeister-off-topic", hehe.

But thanks for great advice winbig72!

Sure, I'm playing with fire nowdays I guess, but I have it under control. No more gambling with rent money, food money..you get the idea. I just see that's where it's leading with you unless you stop now. Don't say it won't happen, because it can, and will. I've been there.

And many times the "no-food-money" is infact food money, just that you trade that Steak with a hamburger instead, if yoy know what I mean. But regarding your notes, I havnt been gambling away all funds lately, not even in the 5K thread - I know when I must stop so that I can pay the rent and still get food in the table, but surely that night I didn't stop until I met that limit... And believe me, I'm gonna work hard as hell getting those 5K and the other 20K back from this years "joy-ride".

I've been wanting a 42" Plasma TV, when I win I'll buy one... How ironic, and stupid might I add, I could have had 5 Plasmas this year alone if I didnt install any MG casinoes...

Also when I blew the 2K for this post, the problem boils down to that I havn't visualized the 2000 Euro in hard cash, I havnt got a feeling of what they are worth, so it's easy just throwing them away. Man - this cashless society is bad when it comes to gambling for people like me... Ouch!

You've got that right. I'm just lucky that there's a 'statute of limitations' on how long CC debt can stay on your credit report. It's 7 years. After that, by law, they have to REMOVE it.

err...at least in the USA it's like that. Not sure about other countries.

i think its 6 here in the UK - i cant really remember

It's even worse in Norway. The debt in general will stick for 10 years, but if the debt has any value it's "renewed" for another 10 years and they can keep doing this. Meanwhile you get your pretty marks which prevents you from getting loands or basically any support. I notice it's even worse for the swedish, since they are not able to do a little thing as rent a car if they have a "payment mark" or what you call it... I was not only surprised, I got the chills when I heard it... But it's true!

I sure didn't mean to preach at anyone, and if it came across that way, I apologize. I just hate to see people throw their lives away, when they've already admitted they have a problem, and the solution is right there. They just need to reach out and grab it.

I have no problems getting advice, good or bad, spot on or besides target. I respect all comments made to my posts, and read though them carefully all as one. I would also like to add that your point regarding it's so annoying seeing people do dumb things when the answer is in front of them. Hehe, you feel annoyed seeing me doing the same mistakes, think of how I feel doing them, hehe. Some of us are slow learners in some fields, this field is going very slow for me. Im used to being succesful in other fields, but this gamble part I just can't get to work, seems it defies all my business logic!

So, Buhu! on me, hehe.

It isn't like he has orchestrated a major heist of the Central Bank of Norway in order to finance his Thunderstruck addiction.

To be honest I killed those plans some 8 years ago,

Thanks for all your support people, I really appretiate it!

 

[steinhaug]

I felt I needed a clean respons on this one.

but sometimes needs to go back and feel the pain again.... maybe even several times before it gets through and sticks

Let's hope I'm not sadomasochistic,

I'm sure that he's developed friendships and aquaintances on this forum that he'd rather not throw away just because his casino accounts are closed

I sure would like to think so, I feel I have gotten to know quite a few in here, some better than others which I thank you all for. Looking at the gambling part, we are all in this together!

but winning and re-losing the 2k only reaffirms to him that he just cannot control himself when he's under the spell of gambling. A lesson well learned and a confirmation that he's made the right move.

The painful truth people like me needs to be aware of. Thanks again and a thumbs up on your final words, that I'm on the right move with an extra lesson in my travelpack!

 

[steinhaug]

...alot on statistics and payout...

I do have my 2 cents on this which I would like to add. The Casino's could easily make the payout higher and still have a lot of winnings in return. But you are very focused on the mathematical payout. What you should be thinking of is the payout we are not being shown, the cashout - or on real slots, the physical payout. Let me explain :

Normal slots with a payout of say 95% would usually have a physical payout of around 40-50%. This means for every $100 you stick it, you only get $40-$50 back in the long run, even if the machine pays 95%. When the machine has eaten $100.000 only $40.000 - $50.000 has been cached out - however the payout will still much likely be on 95%, could even be 99,99% depending on how the reels and payout sheme is buildt.

We all know that a 1000 spins on $9 with 95% payout and you loose $450, so basically the machines are tweaked to give lots of small winnings so that you get alot of spins. Look at Harveys, this machine is very keen on giving low payouts all the time so that the payout is boosted on every spin... When spinning on Harveys your are usually winning on every spin, or as I would like to say - you are loosing on every spin.

I would love to see the physical payout MG (cashout) are operating with, and not the "fairytale" % which are presented all the time. I would suspect that MG are down or maby below the 40% in the cashouts, someone proove me wrong!

 

[gfkostas]

From 50 to 2000 and then zero

At any rate, kimss when you arguing with your problems all you get is your problems. Head to the other direction. When the student is ready the teacher appears. Obviously you ain't ready yet to see the 'teachers' who are all over you but humbleness and acceptance of the situation is noted so you are on a good road. I still don't agree that a true gambler is gambling to lose. That's silly. A true gambler for me goes to the casino doubles his money and walks away by giving 5% to the first homeless on the street who believes that his alone neglected, and spend the rest of the winnings to buy a gift for himself or the other half or go out dinner or trip with his friends. With other words DO something with the money not give them back. You will find more 'joy' which will last in doing what am saying rather than in gambling them back. Detach from money. I've tried these things and I know it 'works' especially for us who are/were psychologically unbalanced.
Looks like 'god' will work with me not for me all you have to do is give 'god' a commision of your winnings and they will come back tenfold. That's what I do at least and it has never failed me. My wallet agrees

 

[spearmaster]

Great post gfkostas!

I believe in tithing too. Give 10% of your earnings to me or Meister and we will sprinkle mojo over you forever

 

[Let_It_Ride]

Hi kimss

another thought provoking post and I would like to thank you because you've helped me

Let me explain, in so many ways when it comes to gambling I'm just like you and can relate to so many of the things you write about. For eg when you posted about losing 5K I'd just lost 5k a few weeks earlier it was good to know I was not alone, yesterday I had a 2K cashout which I reversed and also lost. Your post about 5K really made me see sense and ever since then I had been playing and cashing out the odd 100 here and there and had build a nice roll of 1.2K until yesterday when I blew it all plus another 2k all the good work undone in a few hours. So again great timing you lastest post has given me a slap in the face and made me realise time to slow down, I say slow down because I'm not ready to stop just yet and don't think I want to, gambling in in my blood!

It doesn't matter how many people shout it or say it gently with an arm around our shoulders to join GA, The only ppl who can decide is us and we will when we are ready.

I love this forum, because it helps to keep me away from the online casinos and the ppl here are great. I went to bed yesterday just after reading your post and decided today was going to be different, no gambling, I'm going to spend time with my son and enjoy the sunshine.

Kimss once again thanks and lets help each other out, if you feel the need to gamble PM me first and I too will give you a cold slap in the face

Let It Ride...

 

[gfkostas]

Great post gfkostas!

I believe in tithing too. Give 10% of your earnings to me or Meister and we will sprinkle mojo over you forever

 

[caruso]

I would love to see the physical payout MG (cashout) are operating with, and not the "fairytale" % which are presented all the time. I would suspect that MG are down or maby below the 40% in the cashouts, someone proove me wrong!

I'm confused here, because you already showed you understood "payout percent" concept:

We all know that a 1000 spins on $9 with 95% payout and you loose $450.

A 95% payout percent can equate to a 0% physical payout. If they're all playing slots, all they need do is wager their deposits 20 times to achieve 0% cashout. I doubt there's any "fairytale %", for no reason other than it'd be unnecessary.

 

[steinhaug]

I'm confused here, because you already showed you understood "payout percent" concept:

I know this by knowing people who run the slots, and I know that they are operating with two percentages. One is the "nice one", the payout percent which in many ways are hyped. What we should be looking at is the cashout, or the physical payout as they call it.

The reason why this is important is that you can simplify it like this :
If you deposit $100, and on the last $1 you win $100, you are back on square one and would probably keep going. At this time the payout is 100% and you already owe the slot $5. Then on the last $1 you win $50, on the last $1 you win $50. By this time you have wagered $200 and won $200 - you now ow the slot $10 since the payout should only be 95%.

Here comes my point, if you look at a machine like Harveys, this machine is very good at releasing small wins all the time - meaning just by doing a spin you already got 40% payout. You often get those two scatters with 200% payout, it's practically eating you alive without you noticing. Some machines are tweaked to do this, I suspect harveys is exeptional on it, so that after loosing $500 in an hour and you get a win on $250 you cant complain, since this is probably 95% payout. However - as you see the 95% payout here equals below 50% physical payout.

Other machines doesn't release so many small wins, which means that you get a better payout when the machine releases a win. This has been discussed many times regarding the MG, that the payout is very low compared with landbased machines, so that you don't withdraw the money but keep spinning and eventually loose all in hope of getting a good win. This is in my opinion proof that the machines are tweaked to releasing small wins all the time to drain the physical payout, while maintaining a high public payout for the customers...

As an example, landbased machines usually give you from 100x on the bonus, while MG is more like 30x - still MG has 95% payout, and the landbased aswell - but they are tweaked differently.

Hope it was easier to understand what I'm talking about, it's easy getting confused with all the numbers here,

 

[soflat]

I know this by knowing people who run the slots, and I know that they are operating with two percentages. One is the "nice one", the payout percent which in many ways are hyped. What we should be looking at is the cashout, or the physical payout as they call it.

There is only one payback percentage programmed in to the machine, which is typically 90-95%.

The other percentage, the physical percentage as you call it, is user programmed. If you play until you are broke, then you gave yourself 0% payback. Someone who quits will have a percentage between zero and the actual machine's payback.

The small and big wins just determine the machine's variance.

 

[steinhaug]

If you play until you are broke, then you gave yourself 0% payback.

Sure, but we are looking for the big picture on the machine, not one persons subjective cashout.

The small and big wins just determine the machine's variance.

"Machine's variance", that was the term I was lacking in my english vocabulary. My point is that this variance is quite different from machine to machine, and tweaking this can result in a "enjoyful" gameplay which leads to a very low cashout based on 100.000 spins as an example. A machine which has fewer but higher wins, will result in a higher cashout which in turn will for me be a more enjoyful machine to wager at since I know that if I'm lucky on this one I can win some money. The machine I was referring to is a well known machine for norwegian gamblers some years ago, "The Admiral". Originally a casino machine which was imported to Norway. This machine had a payout on 95% they always was quick to inform, but I recall the times I stood besides them while emptying the machine looking at the stats inside the machine, it it usually was around 40% on that machine.

My point is, and it seems that I'm the only one here being very interested in it, is that for me the 95% payout doesnt really matter much if 75% of all the wins are 2x and 5x the bet - eating me alive. If a machine has a physical payout - or cashout if you will - on 40% that tells me : If the person infront of me looses $1000, I have positive expectations of winning $400.

 

[soflat]

My point is, and it seems that I'm the only one here being very interested in it, is that for me the 95% payout doesnt really matter much if 75% of all the wins are 2x and 5x the bet - eating me alive. If a machine has a physical payout - or cashout if you will - on 40% that tells me : If the person infront of me looses $1000, I have positive expectations of winning $400.

You can never have a positive expectation on a slot machine. They are programmed to win a certain percentage for the house.

As for the physical payout you refer to, I suspect most people would keep playing down to zero on a machine that gives a lot of small wins. But many would cashout on more volatile machines when they hit a nice jackpot. I have no idea if that would effect the 'physical payout' though (presumably the folks who hit a jackpot would come back and try again later, and lose).

 

[steinhaug]

You can never have a positive expectation on a slot machine. They are programmed to win a certain percentage for the house.

True, but in my years as a gambler, I have been convinced that if a person looses say 5000 on 9x5, I have positive expectations of winning 500-1000 on 9x1. I rarely miss on that one, so I don't agree with you.

Looking at the "random" aspect, I don't agree much with that either, as there are obvious differencies on x1 and x5. It might be random, sure, but there is a very different variance on x1 and x5 - if that would be the terminology.

I have no idea if that would effect the 'physical payout'

I for one am sure it does. Maby Zoozie has some thoughts on this one, he seems to be a stats-o-maniac when it comes to numbers.

 

[GrandMaster]

True, but in my years as a gambler, I have been convinced that if a person looses say 5000 on 9x5, I have positive expectations of winning 500-1000 on 9x1. I rarely miss on that one, so I don't agree with you.

I don't think you are in the position to make such pronouncements.

 

[steinhaug]

I don't think you are in the position to make such pronouncements.

Hehe, thats probably true, but often I'm the guy loosing the 5000 not paying to much attention to a sloppy 500. (By the way 500 equals $60-$70).

I did an experiment two weeks ago on the local casino, after an argument with one of the people workiong at the casino. I usually visit the casino and wager 9x3, 9x5 and 20x2, 15x3 and so, never playing 9x1 and such. This usually means that I get home after having lost 5000-6000 (At times also loosing 10.000 - 15.000, depending on the adrenaline rush of the nite, and account balance). Only 1 time in 2 years did I get home with 15.000, which again is not a very good win since the starting point is usually ~7500. OK, once I doubled the money.

However, my girlfriend usually wagers 9x1 and 5x1 - and gets out break even or a few 100 ahead. Some weeks ago we visited, twice - and I did my experiment. I was only wagering 5x1, 9x1 and 15x1 at most. Both times I got out ahead, not big winnings but around 2000 ahead, after paying for drinks , food and taxi. We sat there playing 2 people for around 10 hours both nights. That is 40 hours of spinning - and comming out ahead...

To me this is a very clear indicator that the variance or what you call it, are tweaked so that high rollers like me, who are doomed anyway, will loose all the time. And -> People that still are in controll, will have a very positive experience winning all the time, sonner or later falling into the high roller pit and loose all... But at that time it doesnt matter since you are chasing losses.

Sure, I'm in no position to say anything, however I have almost 15 years of experience in the field. My problem isn't winning - but stopping... The end result is the same however. Usually the big losses that kills the nite can be traced back to one or two machines, and again - those are not the times going for the positive expectation for 500...

 

[Reef]

no offense OP, but I would recommend GA to you.

I also can't help but chuckle when people mention or show me martingale system on slots. At least play blackjack where you have a better chance of staying alive.

 

[bb1webs]

I remind you the above circumstances only come into play when a player wins a large amount, and then decides to cash it out. I can tell you with some certainty that in more cases than not; players will turn around and give back the majority of what they won, regardless of its amount. I have seen this happen time and again, so I know its true. I attain this phenomenon, or from my point of view its a phenomenon,.. to the fact that most players go into a casino with a set amount they have decided will be the most they will lose, and they will stop when that amount is gone. But they don't seem to have a cap at the other end of the spectrum. No amount is too much when it comes to winning. So once they get way up, they start betting larger amounts and before long they've given it back to the casino. Or in the really lucky cases, walk away from the casino very, very much richer than they had started.

And I think that is extremely healthy way to gamble. People are saying, "this is an entertainment I am entering into: and I am willing to pay this amount ... for whatever amount of excitement I am lucky enough to have it carry me. If that means I am able to reach a point where I am making bets that would turn Donny Trump's head,... all the better!!! Then I damn sure got my money's worth!".

To me, that is as healthy as it gets. But back to my point. If you take into consideration how rare it is that a person cashes in on a truly large amount... you begin to see how it is possible that there may just be a hell of a lot more unscrupulous casinos out there, than does anybody really know,... or care to admit.

quote from an ebook I wrote

Assuming you're truly seeking help ... via already are admitting (or calling yourself) an addict then if you really mean it and are not just doing as I sometimes will do and call myself "fat" in order to keep myself curbing an otherwise out of control appetite (and btw I'm only lovably plump ) to make it POSSIBLE for me to still be able to eat without every bite being a serious mistake ...

then you definitely should cut your losses (so to speak) and get away from gambling.

and sorry to say but I disagree with others here and think that you should sever all avenues that remind you of gambling including old friends ...

I speak from a time when I was heavy into the drug scene (by my standards, certainly far from others) and every time I ran into friends who were my old "party buddies" ... I was jonesing. They just reminded me of some damn good times (but times I'd spend otherwise if I had it to do over .... I think )

well you get where I'm going with that.

I am inclined to lean towards Spear's assumptions (or what I perceived them to be) for the very reasons Spear stated ... however what really matters is that if YOU think you're an addict then by all means take action to take back control of your life.

so if the problem is gambling then I see little benefit in hanging out around other gamblers .... with the exception perhaps of being a sponsor at GA or something like that where you could see you're having a positive effect towards things by staying around the gambling life.

Otherwise my friend: cut the chains that you've bound yourself with and move on towards finding something that gives you as much interest and pleasure as gambling but that doesn't have the financial and mental burden that gambling will always have accompany it.

ps.

sorry to anyone whom I've disagreed with and appreciate the fact that we can disagree in a civil manner and then move on without luggage

 

[bb1webs]

PS.

If you didn't read it between the lines in my above post in the quoted section: every gambler should have a limit set for wins every time they enter a session.

That amount can be adjusted if you reach the high end but just as it is adjusted: so should your loss limit be adjusted.

in other words if you started out expecting to lose $100; and turn it into $1000.... which is $100 more than you'd set for a win cap: then you adjust accordingly and set your new win cap at $2000 .... but your loss limit is now set to never allow yourself to go below .... $600

and saying you don't have the self control to make yourself quit at that low limit is a load of crap!

if I had a gun to your loved one's head (and you believed I was serious) and I gave you $200 : said go to the casino be home by 10 pm with at least $100 of that ... or else:

And I can assure all but the most despicable persons reading this: that yes: you too... would show up at ten min to ten with $120 in your pocket. well with $100 anyway ....

its all a matter of how bad you want it.



note: by win cap I don't mean you can't win more than that amount; but it is rather a schedule so that you know when to adjust your "most I am willing to lose" amount.

 

[paul02085]

I agree with the folks who recommend staying completely away from gambling. I consider it the same as smoking. Recently i have quit smoking after being totally addicted to it for 30 years (When drinking i would sometimes have 3 or 4 cigs lit at one time ).

I have not smoked one in 4 months and like i have told friends and family if i smoke one i might as well smoke 1000. In other words i cannot stop once started. I think some have that same issue with gambling so i would say stay away from it totally.

Good luck!

 

[Daffy]

In the process of scooping up my chips at a crap table once, I asked the stickman where the cashier's cage was..."We don't have one", he said with a smile.

It's hard to gamble on any budget if you can't/won't cashin sporadically...

I'll spare you the guidelines...win this...cash that...etc...

Figure out a comfortable budget and stick to it...win or lose.

How sad to eat a burger while the casino eats your steak.

Good luck,

the dUck