When blowing 2K is a good thing!

[Pinababy69]

Hey Lisa! You just reminded me of old song from the 80's I believe!

It's called "Paranoia will Destroy ya!

You're that old??? And I am not paranoid!! Yes, you are....no, I'm not.

 

[Pinababy69]

Hey Tim...only two posts to go, woo hoo!! 1000 here ya come. Now where's Simmo with that "ban" button?

 

[tim5ny]

You're that old??? And I am not paranoid!! Yes, you are....no, I'm not.

I think you're confused with Schizophrenia... which reminds me of a poem!

Roses are red, violets are blue, Im a Schizophrenic, and so am I!

 

[spearmaster]

You guys are being way too harsh on kimss.

First of all, the net loss was $50.

Secondly, none of you recognized the fact that the post is very long, quite detailed, and even has useful advice in it. All you can focus on is the fact that kimss "admits" to be a chronic gambler.

I think Kim was exaggerating a bit for the sake of making the read more interesting. Chronic or not, a compulsive gambler would:

a. Probably not have been able to put together such a detailed explanation or post - especially because they would have been too depressed to do so

b. Probably lost way more than $50 net.

I was going to ask people to lighten up earlier but after managra's second post I thought the tide was changing. Obviously I was wrong.

So now I'm going to do it.

Lighten up, people. Let's not all jump on this bandwagon too soon. Give kimss some credit for those posts...

 

[managra]

I just hate to see people throw their lives away, when they've already admitted they have a problem, and the solution is right there. They just need to reach out and grab it.

Who doesn't have a problem? Who doesn't have some sort of addiction? Kimss has come to realize that he has a tough time quitting when he wins big. I credit him with enough intelligence to deal with it sooner or later. It isn't like he has orchestrated a major heist of the Central Bank of Norway in order to finance his Thunderstruck addiction.

 

[steinhaug]

Sorry, I'm not convinced. How many more?

Ouch! But you are very right, let's hope there is no more of theese slips,

Don't just write to the casinos requesting your accounts to be closed. Be very specific....tell them that you have a serious problem, and that under no circumstances do you wish to be allowed to play any longer. You need to do this ASAP.

And especially this part :

and that under no circumstances do you wish to be allowed to play any longer

I havn't gone this far in the emails to them, but at this point in my online career I'm quite sure you are right. I just need to let those words sink for a while, They are hard words to consume for a gambler.

I have to agree on this too. Join a compulsive gamblers support group. Something. Here's a kickstart:

Jepp, this is very true. Been there before infact, but maby it's time to hit the decks again. Problem is I would then need to quit the landbased casino aswell, and I don't have the "can't stop, must gamble away all the money" problem there... You can't very much attend to AA-meetings when you are drinking in the weekends...

So it's a pickle at the moment for me, thats why I thought I might control myself and get some wisdom from you people which I have. (But I failed myself by loosing control). I really enjoy the conversation with you, even If it might be a little "Casinomeister-off-topic", hehe.

But thanks for great advice winbig72!

Sure, I'm playing with fire nowdays I guess, but I have it under control. No more gambling with rent money, food money..you get the idea. I just see that's where it's leading with you unless you stop now. Don't say it won't happen, because it can, and will. I've been there.

And many times the "no-food-money" is infact food money, just that you trade that Steak with a hamburger instead, if yoy know what I mean. But regarding your notes, I havnt been gambling away all funds lately, not even in the 5K thread - I know when I must stop so that I can pay the rent and still get food in the table, but surely that night I didn't stop until I met that limit... And believe me, I'm gonna work hard as hell getting those 5K and the other 20K back from this years "joy-ride".

I've been wanting a 42" Plasma TV, when I win I'll buy one... How ironic, and stupid might I add, I could have had 5 Plasmas this year alone if I didnt install any MG casinoes...

Also when I blew the 2K for this post, the problem boils down to that I havn't visualized the 2000 Euro in hard cash, I havnt got a feeling of what they are worth, so it's easy just throwing them away. Man - this cashless society is bad when it comes to gambling for people like me... Ouch!

You've got that right. I'm just lucky that there's a 'statute of limitations' on how long CC debt can stay on your credit report. It's 7 years. After that, by law, they have to REMOVE it.

err...at least in the USA it's like that. Not sure about other countries.

i think its 6 here in the UK - i cant really remember

It's even worse in Norway. The debt in general will stick for 10 years, but if the debt has any value it's "renewed" for another 10 years and they can keep doing this. Meanwhile you get your pretty marks which prevents you from getting loands or basically any support. I notice it's even worse for the swedish, since they are not able to do a little thing as rent a car if they have a "payment mark" or what you call it... I was not only surprised, I got the chills when I heard it... But it's true!

I sure didn't mean to preach at anyone, and if it came across that way, I apologize. I just hate to see people throw their lives away, when they've already admitted they have a problem, and the solution is right there. They just need to reach out and grab it.

I have no problems getting advice, good or bad, spot on or besides target. I respect all comments made to my posts, and read though them carefully all as one. I would also like to add that your point regarding it's so annoying seeing people do dumb things when the answer is in front of them. Hehe, you feel annoyed seeing me doing the same mistakes, think of how I feel doing them, hehe. Some of us are slow learners in some fields, this field is going very slow for me. Im used to being succesful in other fields, but this gamble part I just can't get to work, seems it defies all my business logic!

So, Buhu! on me, hehe.

It isn't like he has orchestrated a major heist of the Central Bank of Norway in order to finance his Thunderstruck addiction.

To be honest I killed those plans some 8 years ago,

Thanks for all your support people, I really appretiate it!

 

[steinhaug]

I felt I needed a clean respons on this one.

but sometimes needs to go back and feel the pain again.... maybe even several times before it gets through and sticks

Let's hope I'm not sadomasochistic,

I'm sure that he's developed friendships and aquaintances on this forum that he'd rather not throw away just because his casino accounts are closed

I sure would like to think so, I feel I have gotten to know quite a few in here, some better than others which I thank you all for. Looking at the gambling part, we are all in this together!

but winning and re-losing the 2k only reaffirms to him that he just cannot control himself when he's under the spell of gambling. A lesson well learned and a confirmation that he's made the right move.

The painful truth people like me needs to be aware of. Thanks again and a thumbs up on your final words, that I'm on the right move with an extra lesson in my travelpack!

 

[steinhaug]

...alot on statistics and payout...

I do have my 2 cents on this which I would like to add. The Casino's could easily make the payout higher and still have a lot of winnings in return. But you are very focused on the mathematical payout. What you should be thinking of is the payout we are not being shown, the cashout - or on real slots, the physical payout. Let me explain :

Normal slots with a payout of say 95% would usually have a physical payout of around 40-50%. This means for every $100 you stick it, you only get $40-$50 back in the long run, even if the machine pays 95%. When the machine has eaten $100.000 only $40.000 - $50.000 has been cached out - however the payout will still much likely be on 95%, could even be 99,99% depending on how the reels and payout sheme is buildt.

We all know that a 1000 spins on $9 with 95% payout and you loose $450, so basically the machines are tweaked to give lots of small winnings so that you get alot of spins. Look at Harveys, this machine is very keen on giving low payouts all the time so that the payout is boosted on every spin... When spinning on Harveys your are usually winning on every spin, or as I would like to say - you are loosing on every spin.

I would love to see the physical payout MG (cashout) are operating with, and not the "fairytale" % which are presented all the time. I would suspect that MG are down or maby below the 40% in the cashouts, someone proove me wrong!

 

[gfkostas]

From 50 to 2000 and then zero

At any rate, kimss when you arguing with your problems all you get is your problems. Head to the other direction. When the student is ready the teacher appears. Obviously you ain't ready yet to see the 'teachers' who are all over you but humbleness and acceptance of the situation is noted so you are on a good road. I still don't agree that a true gambler is gambling to lose. That's silly. A true gambler for me goes to the casino doubles his money and walks away by giving 5% to the first homeless on the street who believes that his alone neglected, and spend the rest of the winnings to buy a gift for himself or the other half or go out dinner or trip with his friends. With other words DO something with the money not give them back. You will find more 'joy' which will last in doing what am saying rather than in gambling them back. Detach from money. I've tried these things and I know it 'works' especially for us who are/were psychologically unbalanced.
Looks like 'god' will work with me not for me all you have to do is give 'god' a commision of your winnings and they will come back tenfold. That's what I do at least and it has never failed me. My wallet agrees

 

[spearmaster]

Great post gfkostas!

I believe in tithing too. Give 10% of your earnings to me or Meister and we will sprinkle mojo over you forever

 

[Let_It_Ride]

Hi kimss

another thought provoking post and I would like to thank you because you've helped me

Let me explain, in so many ways when it comes to gambling I'm just like you and can relate to so many of the things you write about. For eg when you posted about losing 5K I'd just lost 5k a few weeks earlier it was good to know I was not alone, yesterday I had a 2K cashout which I reversed and also lost. Your post about 5K really made me see sense and ever since then I had been playing and cashing out the odd 100 here and there and had build a nice roll of 1.2K until yesterday when I blew it all plus another 2k all the good work undone in a few hours. So again great timing you lastest post has given me a slap in the face and made me realise time to slow down, I say slow down because I'm not ready to stop just yet and don't think I want to, gambling in in my blood!

It doesn't matter how many people shout it or say it gently with an arm around our shoulders to join GA, The only ppl who can decide is us and we will when we are ready.

I love this forum, because it helps to keep me away from the online casinos and the ppl here are great. I went to bed yesterday just after reading your post and decided today was going to be different, no gambling, I'm going to spend time with my son and enjoy the sunshine.

Kimss once again thanks and lets help each other out, if you feel the need to gamble PM me first and I too will give you a cold slap in the face

Let It Ride...

 

[gfkostas]

Great post gfkostas!

I believe in tithing too. Give 10% of your earnings to me or Meister and we will sprinkle mojo over you forever

 

[caruso]

I would love to see the physical payout MG (cashout) are operating with, and not the "fairytale" % which are presented all the time. I would suspect that MG are down or maby below the 40% in the cashouts, someone proove me wrong!

I'm confused here, because you already showed you understood "payout percent" concept:

We all know that a 1000 spins on $9 with 95% payout and you loose $450.

A 95% payout percent can equate to a 0% physical payout. If they're all playing slots, all they need do is wager their deposits 20 times to achieve 0% cashout. I doubt there's any "fairytale %", for no reason other than it'd be unnecessary.

 

[steinhaug]

I'm confused here, because you already showed you understood "payout percent" concept:

I know this by knowing people who run the slots, and I know that they are operating with two percentages. One is the "nice one", the payout percent which in many ways are hyped. What we should be looking at is the cashout, or the physical payout as they call it.

The reason why this is important is that you can simplify it like this :
If you deposit $100, and on the last $1 you win $100, you are back on square one and would probably keep going. At this time the payout is 100% and you already owe the slot $5. Then on the last $1 you win $50, on the last $1 you win $50. By this time you have wagered $200 and won $200 - you now ow the slot $10 since the payout should only be 95%.

Here comes my point, if you look at a machine like Harveys, this machine is very good at releasing small wins all the time - meaning just by doing a spin you already got 40% payout. You often get those two scatters with 200% payout, it's practically eating you alive without you noticing. Some machines are tweaked to do this, I suspect harveys is exeptional on it, so that after loosing $500 in an hour and you get a win on $250 you cant complain, since this is probably 95% payout. However - as you see the 95% payout here equals below 50% physical payout.

Other machines doesn't release so many small wins, which means that you get a better payout when the machine releases a win. This has been discussed many times regarding the MG, that the payout is very low compared with landbased machines, so that you don't withdraw the money but keep spinning and eventually loose all in hope of getting a good win. This is in my opinion proof that the machines are tweaked to releasing small wins all the time to drain the physical payout, while maintaining a high public payout for the customers...

As an example, landbased machines usually give you from 100x on the bonus, while MG is more like 30x - still MG has 95% payout, and the landbased aswell - but they are tweaked differently.

Hope it was easier to understand what I'm talking about, it's easy getting confused with all the numbers here,

 

[soflat]

I know this by knowing people who run the slots, and I know that they are operating with two percentages. One is the "nice one", the payout percent which in many ways are hyped. What we should be looking at is the cashout, or the physical payout as they call it.

There is only one payback percentage programmed in to the machine, which is typically 90-95%.

The other percentage, the physical percentage as you call it, is user programmed. If you play until you are broke, then you gave yourself 0% payback. Someone who quits will have a percentage between zero and the actual machine's payback.

The small and big wins just determine the machine's variance.

 

[steinhaug]

If you play until you are broke, then you gave yourself 0% payback.

Sure, but we are looking for the big picture on the machine, not one persons subjective cashout.

The small and big wins just determine the machine's variance.

"Machine's variance", that was the term I was lacking in my english vocabulary. My point is that this variance is quite different from machine to machine, and tweaking this can result in a "enjoyful" gameplay which leads to a very low cashout based on 100.000 spins as an example. A machine which has fewer but higher wins, will result in a higher cashout which in turn will for me be a more enjoyful machine to wager at since I know that if I'm lucky on this one I can win some money. The machine I was referring to is a well known machine for norwegian gamblers some years ago, "The Admiral". Originally a casino machine which was imported to Norway. This machine had a payout on 95% they always was quick to inform, but I recall the times I stood besides them while emptying the machine looking at the stats inside the machine, it it usually was around 40% on that machine.

My point is, and it seems that I'm the only one here being very interested in it, is that for me the 95% payout doesnt really matter much if 75% of all the wins are 2x and 5x the bet - eating me alive. If a machine has a physical payout - or cashout if you will - on 40% that tells me : If the person infront of me looses $1000, I have positive expectations of winning $400.

 

[soflat]

My point is, and it seems that I'm the only one here being very interested in it, is that for me the 95% payout doesnt really matter much if 75% of all the wins are 2x and 5x the bet - eating me alive. If a machine has a physical payout - or cashout if you will - on 40% that tells me : If the person infront of me looses $1000, I have positive expectations of winning $400.

You can never have a positive expectation on a slot machine. They are programmed to win a certain percentage for the house.

As for the physical payout you refer to, I suspect most people would keep playing down to zero on a machine that gives a lot of small wins. But many would cashout on more volatile machines when they hit a nice jackpot. I have no idea if that would effect the 'physical payout' though (presumably the folks who hit a jackpot would come back and try again later, and lose).

 

[steinhaug]

You can never have a positive expectation on a slot machine. They are programmed to win a certain percentage for the house.

True, but in my years as a gambler, I have been convinced that if a person looses say 5000 on 9x5, I have positive expectations of winning 500-1000 on 9x1. I rarely miss on that one, so I don't agree with you.

Looking at the "random" aspect, I don't agree much with that either, as there are obvious differencies on x1 and x5. It might be random, sure, but there is a very different variance on x1 and x5 - if that would be the terminology.

I have no idea if that would effect the 'physical payout'

I for one am sure it does. Maby Zoozie has some thoughts on this one, he seems to be a stats-o-maniac when it comes to numbers.

 

[GrandMaster]

True, but in my years as a gambler, I have been convinced that if a person looses say 5000 on 9x5, I have positive expectations of winning 500-1000 on 9x1. I rarely miss on that one, so I don't agree with you.

I don't think you are in the position to make such pronouncements.

 

[steinhaug]

I don't think you are in the position to make such pronouncements.

Hehe, thats probably true, but often I'm the guy loosing the 5000 not paying to much attention to a sloppy 500. (By the way 500 equals $60-$70).

I did an experiment two weeks ago on the local casino, after an argument with one of the people workiong at the casino. I usually visit the casino and wager 9x3, 9x5 and 20x2, 15x3 and so, never playing 9x1 and such. This usually means that I get home after having lost 5000-6000 (At times also loosing 10.000 - 15.000, depending on the adrenaline rush of the nite, and account balance). Only 1 time in 2 years did I get home with 15.000, which again is not a very good win since the starting point is usually ~7500. OK, once I doubled the money.

However, my girlfriend usually wagers 9x1 and 5x1 - and gets out break even or a few 100 ahead. Some weeks ago we visited, twice - and I did my experiment. I was only wagering 5x1, 9x1 and 15x1 at most. Both times I got out ahead, not big winnings but around 2000 ahead, after paying for drinks , food and taxi. We sat there playing 2 people for around 10 hours both nights. That is 40 hours of spinning - and comming out ahead...

To me this is a very clear indicator that the variance or what you call it, are tweaked so that high rollers like me, who are doomed anyway, will loose all the time. And -> People that still are in controll, will have a very positive experience winning all the time, sonner or later falling into the high roller pit and loose all... But at that time it doesnt matter since you are chasing losses.

Sure, I'm in no position to say anything, however I have almost 15 years of experience in the field. My problem isn't winning - but stopping... The end result is the same however. Usually the big losses that kills the nite can be traced back to one or two machines, and again - those are not the times going for the positive expectation for 500...

 

[Reef]

no offense OP, but I would recommend GA to you.

I also can't help but chuckle when people mention or show me martingale system on slots. At least play blackjack where you have a better chance of staying alive.

 

[bb1webs]

I remind you the above circumstances only come into play when a player wins a large amount, and then decides to cash it out. I can tell you with some certainty that in more cases than not; players will turn around and give back the majority of what they won, regardless of its amount. I have seen this happen time and again, so I know its true. I attain this phenomenon, or from my point of view its a phenomenon,.. to the fact that most players go into a casino with a set amount they have decided will be the most they will lose, and they will stop when that amount is gone. But they don't seem to have a cap at the other end of the spectrum. No amount is too much when it comes to winning. So once they get way up, they start betting larger amounts and before long they've given it back to the casino. Or in the really lucky cases, walk away from the casino very, very much richer than they had started.

And I think that is extremely healthy way to gamble. People are saying, "this is an entertainment I am entering into: and I am willing to pay this amount ... for whatever amount of excitement I am lucky enough to have it carry me. If that means I am able to reach a point where I am making bets that would turn Donny Trump's head,... all the better!!! Then I damn sure got my money's worth!".

To me, that is as healthy as it gets. But back to my point. If you take into consideration how rare it is that a person cashes in on a truly large amount... you begin to see how it is possible that there may just be a hell of a lot more unscrupulous casinos out there, than does anybody really know,... or care to admit.

quote from an ebook I wrote

Assuming you're truly seeking help ... via already are admitting (or calling yourself) an addict then if you really mean it and are not just doing as I sometimes will do and call myself "fat" in order to keep myself curbing an otherwise out of control appetite (and btw I'm only lovably plump ) to make it POSSIBLE for me to still be able to eat without every bite being a serious mistake ...

then you definitely should cut your losses (so to speak) and get away from gambling.

and sorry to say but I disagree with others here and think that you should sever all avenues that remind you of gambling including old friends ...

I speak from a time when I was heavy into the drug scene (by my standards, certainly far from others) and every time I ran into friends who were my old "party buddies" ... I was jonesing. They just reminded me of some damn good times (but times I'd spend otherwise if I had it to do over .... I think )

well you get where I'm going with that.

I am inclined to lean towards Spear's assumptions (or what I perceived them to be) for the very reasons Spear stated ... however what really matters is that if YOU think you're an addict then by all means take action to take back control of your life.

so if the problem is gambling then I see little benefit in hanging out around other gamblers .... with the exception perhaps of being a sponsor at GA or something like that where you could see you're having a positive effect towards things by staying around the gambling life.

Otherwise my friend: cut the chains that you've bound yourself with and move on towards finding something that gives you as much interest and pleasure as gambling but that doesn't have the financial and mental burden that gambling will always have accompany it.

ps.

sorry to anyone whom I've disagreed with and appreciate the fact that we can disagree in a civil manner and then move on without luggage

 

[bb1webs]

PS.

If you didn't read it between the lines in my above post in the quoted section: every gambler should have a limit set for wins every time they enter a session.

That amount can be adjusted if you reach the high end but just as it is adjusted: so should your loss limit be adjusted.

in other words if you started out expecting to lose $100; and turn it into $1000.... which is $100 more than you'd set for a win cap: then you adjust accordingly and set your new win cap at $2000 .... but your loss limit is now set to never allow yourself to go below .... $600

and saying you don't have the self control to make yourself quit at that low limit is a load of crap!

if I had a gun to your loved one's head (and you believed I was serious) and I gave you $200 : said go to the casino be home by 10 pm with at least $100 of that ... or else:

And I can assure all but the most despicable persons reading this: that yes: you too... would show up at ten min to ten with $120 in your pocket. well with $100 anyway ....

its all a matter of how bad you want it.



note: by win cap I don't mean you can't win more than that amount; but it is rather a schedule so that you know when to adjust your "most I am willing to lose" amount.

 

[paul02085]

I agree with the folks who recommend staying completely away from gambling. I consider it the same as smoking. Recently i have quit smoking after being totally addicted to it for 30 years (When drinking i would sometimes have 3 or 4 cigs lit at one time ).

I have not smoked one in 4 months and like i have told friends and family if i smoke one i might as well smoke 1000. In other words i cannot stop once started. I think some have that same issue with gambling so i would say stay away from it totally.

Good luck!

 

[Daffy]

In the process of scooping up my chips at a crap table once, I asked the stickman where the cashier's cage was..."We don't have one", he said with a smile.

It's hard to gamble on any budget if you can't/won't cashin sporadically...

I'll spare you the guidelines...win this...cash that...etc...

Figure out a comfortable budget and stick to it...win or lose.

How sad to eat a burger while the casino eats your steak.

Good luck,

the dUck