Question What kinda slots do this?

[dunover]

That's another good point that I've thought about myself.

How many actual spins validate the RTP?

What? Say we spin 10,000 spins and our (Personal) RTP is around 60-70%, then we complain, will we still have our software supporters say, "Well you need to spin alot more than that to justify your 60-70% statement; try spinning another 50,000 and see what your RTP is"?

I reckon between 5,000 and 10,000 spins is enough to determine whether a slot's RTP is accurate enough or not (IMO).

Don't get me wrong, this thread isn't a NetEnt bashing thread. I like NetEnt games alot, but it's just that some of the games RTP is no where near good enough over a period of spins to say that there's a fair return.

Just now I've had another 600 spins and it's paid back 65%.

I think it's time to stay away from this slot, and not complain about it and just stick to slots like Thief & Secret of the Stones. These 2 have paid back with a good RTP, and in all honesty Thief has paid me back with over 100% RTP.

So It's my fault really, I guess

Firstly, TFTUT is a newer NetBent slot. See my screenshot where I got 15 spins with 4 scatters and got 0.45 X stake! Only 1 has been posted of a win in excess of 1k x stake, where it was also a 15 spin trigger and the Turd got flushed. On 10 freespins I've never seen it flushed. There is a new term coined on here called 'netent variance' which has made the newer releases almost impossible to gain big cashouts on. The usual pattern is a slight raise on deposit, say up to 20% or no raise. Next, your balance will experience death by 1000 cuts. You will then hit 'the point of no recovery' whereby you are 250+ stake down on your deposit. Then you will probably get a 100-300x stake win, at best restoring you to marginally up, but more likely down. Repeat and lose.

Secondly, you won't see TRTP from 5-10000 spins and if your opinion is that you WILL you should stop now - it's possible but not likely. On here, several people have used a speed-cheat to play over a million spins on several slots, especially MG ones. You actually hit near enough the exact stated TRTP on several hundred thousand spins. Most players will never attain that on a single slot on a single site, and the software providers and the casinos know it. Even if the players did, the casinos would still have made their 4-5%. These experiments, including the ones me and others did on DoA show how very rare the big hits are.

Your last sentence bemoans a bad return of 60% on one game but boasts over 100% on others! What do expect? >100% on all of them?? Overall, equate you PLAYER return from the casino, and you'll see it's much nearer 95% RTP, even just by amalgamating the examples you gave.

You can't win all the time, especially on newer Netbent games.

 

[gagamel]

Well, that's fantastic. Because you agree with Nifty, that makes me an idiot, and an insulting one. Brilliant.

Looking at it from my point of view, it looks like you and Nifty are the ones doing the insulting because I feel NetEnts RTP is BS, but whatever man. You are entitled to your opinion.

I'm the idiot, because Nifty knows absolutely everything about slots and variance, and everyone else is clueless.

Tell me this, who is the male and who is the female in you and Nifty's relationship?

Sometimes I feel like a butterfly then I`m the female.
And sometimes I feel like a worm, then I`m the male.

5000 spins is nothing. With 5000 spins you can`t tell anything. You need more than 1 million spins to see anything about your RTP.
We have some threats here at the forums.

I have my best winnings with NetEnt games and my badest losses with MG.

Just as an example, I didn`t play MG for a long time. Now I`m playing these games at videoslots and they are friendly to me. 13000 spins in the last week and my RTP is about 95%. If I play longer my RTP can change to 150% or to 50% in the next week.
But I`m sure if I play 5 million spins at one game I hit the TRTP very near.

PS: I played two weeks ago TS and had within 250 spins a RTP of 9%.

Cheers

 

[Chipkin9]

Firstly, TFTUT is a newer NetBent slot. See my screenshot where I got 15 spins with 4 scatters and got 0.45 X stake! Only 1 has been posted of a win in excess of 1k x stake, where it was also a 15 spin trigger and the Turd got flushed. On 10 freespins I've never seen it flushed. There is a new term coined on here called 'netent variance' which has made the newer releases almost impossible to gain big cashouts on. The usual pattern is a slight raise on deposit, say up to 20% or no raise. Next, your balance will experience death by 1000 cuts. You will then hit 'the point of no recovery' whereby you are 250+ stake down on your deposit. Then you will probably get a 100-300x stake win, at best restoring you to marginally up, but more likely down. Repeat and lose.

Secondly, you won't see TRTP from 5-10000 spins and if your opinion is that you WILL you should stop now - it's possible but not likely. On here, several people have used a speed-cheat to play over a million spins on several slots, especially MG ones. You actually hit near enough the exact stated TRTP on several hundred thousand spins. Most players will never attain that on a single slot on a single site, and the software providers and the casinos know it. Even if the players did, the casinos would still have made their 4-5%. These experiments, including the ones me and others did on DoA show how very rare the big hits are.

Your last sentence bemoans a bad return of 60% on one game but boasts over 100% on others! What do expect? >100% on all of them?? Overall, equate you PLAYER return from the casino, and you'll see it's much nearer 95% RTP, even just by amalgamating the examples you gave.

You can't win all the time, especially on newer Netbent games.

Thanks for your reply.

I understand you completely.

I guess one way of saying it would be "What you win on one slot, you will give away on another"

 

[john39]

My 2 cents is its payback on the life of the machine not by individuals players, but I think that's what everyone just said

So you may have someone hit the top prize one day and that will average out all the other wins higher

 

[suzecat]

My 2 cents is its payback on the life of the machine not by individuals players, but I think that's what everyone just said

So you may have someone hit the top prize one day and that will average out all the other wins higher

No way around it ...... the house always wins.

 

[john39]

No way around it ...... the house always wins.

True but players can win a big progressive and make them a life long winner as well, as long as they do not get back and lose it all

 

[Casinomeister]

Just a friendly reminder to please keep things civil - no insulting insinuations and name calling. Thank you.

 

[spoton]

PS: Mr. Expert. Since you know an awful lot about variance and "how slots work", then maybe you can share with us all (Without avoiding the question), How many spins should a player make before a determination about the RTP is made? 10, 50, 100 Thousand?

It really depends on the slot, dont it? Lets say you win 3 million on Mega Fortune(min bet) and keep on playing. Then you need to play pretty many million spins to get down to under 100% RTP

 

[gagamel]

Sorry, but you are an insulting idiot.
Nifty knows a lot about slots and you know nothing.

Cheers

Apologise for my bad behaviour. Will never happen again.

 

[dizze]

Hi!

Just spent some time on Cash for the Blasted Leeches (Creature from the Black Lagoon).

I've played this slot a good few times now, and have had between 100x & 300 Total Bet on 3 occasions (Beginners Luck). All-in-all though this sot consistently continues to be very poor.

I've just spun (again) over 600 spins. I've got the bonus 3 times in this time. One bonus paid me 30x Total Bet, the other 30x Total Bet, and the last paid me half a bet. LMAO.

I'm down over 200x total bet in these 600 spins. I mean "What sort of slot do this"?. Where's the 95% + payback everyone speaks about?

I don't care for variance arguments tbh. In all the times I've played this slot, my return is around 40-45% (Except the 3 times I've won 100+).

I guess I'm the gullible one for continuing to play these slot suckers on the basis that I'm bound to get a return soon.

The freespins bonus on this slot is very poor. NetEnt know suckers like me will play to the feature and hope for a hit. But it's not even worthwhile wasting your money on this slot for such low payouts on the freespins. DOA & Reel Steal are the same

"I'll be the bait for it". True on so many occasions.

Still a better slot than "Take Ma Cash Again", but still very poor.

Think I'll be avoiding NetEnt "Mid variance" slots for a while.

Just quit gambling, if you cant get it in your head that you need atleast 100,000 spins to assess the payback, then dont play

 

[Nate]

Hi,

Insulting members and telling them to shut up will fast track you to be banned! Relax, take it easy and learn from the members here - many are seasoned players

To answer your question - NetEnt Slots do this - Mostly the newer Slots. I assure you that the designers didn't have your wallet in mind when they created the paytables. They are some of the worst paying slots to hit the internet. CFTBL is an awesome game but can deplete a balance in no time. Same goes for Wild Water.

You need to understand that they are a different breed of slots and like Dunover alluded to, if you don't get ahead early - you have a slim chance of a good recovery. There are more blank spins on the paytable than you can imagine.

I have tried to stay away from the new slots. I really enjoy playing them but I alway regret my session afterwards. My last two sessions playing CFTBL and Wild Water have left me with a total RTP of 60% and a net loss of a few thousand. Will I recover - Probably not. IMPO lower your bets if you actually want to play them because when they go cold, trust me they can be really vile.

Nate

 

[plasticnote]

I think most new netent slots really can not be called slots, imo they are AWP.

Here comes the different part between netent slots and AWP: in AWP if you keep doing cash injection, you may see jackpot. in new netent slots, it will pays a bit and take it back, so on ... until you reach an acceptable RTP... and make sure you will never win...

Recently, I start questioning the design of "netent variance" - and the ethnic of designers... I just hope MG and other slots companies will never hire these people...

 

[Nate]

I think most new netent slots really can not be called slots, imo they are AWP.

Here comes the different part between netent slots and AWP: in AWP if you keep doing cash injection, you may see jackpot. in new netent slots, it will pays a bit and take it back, so on ... until you reach an acceptable RTP... and make sure you will never win...

Recently, I start questioning the design of "netent variance" - and the ethnic of designers... I just hope MG and other slots companies will never hire these people...

I don't think they are AWP's mate - But i can tell you that the design is to curb incremental betting to a large extent. The hits are spread out well enough so that when you hit in a bad session, its almost never enough for you to recover.

Those that enter the game at the right time will be fortunate to hit the odd 100x or upwards but the decent hits are also lowered by lots of micro wins. NetEnt are geniuses at developing eye candy and really horrible paying slots. At this moment they are unrivalled in bad payouts on the newer games.

I know that you are a long session aka 'give it a chance' type of player. I also will rough it out as I don't expect a hit soon and will try a few 1000 spins to really get a true reflection. I genuinely feel that the longer you play their newer slots, the more you are in for a mega loss. In essence, you cant run it for a few 1000 spins and hope for a biggie like on DOA or IR or BDBA, its not going to happen and if you do hit you will rarely break even or go ahead.

I think its important to understand this as the slots cater for a different type of player. Id say its a player that goes 100 spins on it every odd day.

I have seen CFTBL dish out a RTP of 35% one day then 60% the next (Total RTP for all plays in the casino). If you are one of the players on that day or the next, you could lose your house chasing a recovery if you were playing on those days - especially on larger bets. The losses will be insane.

As always, I believe the Slots are random but wins are heavily spread out. CFTBL is an excellent example of losing 50, then winning 30 - rinse and repeat. If you don't get a biggie in there early - Good luck on winning.

I know this is a long winded post but I have been playing these and other games a lot and I can only tell you that my BIGGEST losses are on ALL off NetEnts new slots. Not IR, not Playboy, not DOA - Slots like Twinspin, Wild Water, CFTBL and even Starbust - its fucking insane.

Nate

 

[Dinahnana]

I don't think they are AWP's mate - But i can tell you that the design is to curb incremental betting to a large extent. The hits are spread out well enough so that when you hit in a bad session, its almost never enough for you to recover.

Those that enter the game at the right time will be fortunate to hit the odd 100x or upwards but the decent hits are also lowered by lots of micro wins. NetEnt are geniuses at developing eye candy and really horrible paying slots. At this moment they are unrivalled in bad payouts on the newer games.

I know that you are a long session aka 'give it a chance' type of player. I also will rough it out as I don't expect a hit soon and will try a few 1000 spins to really get a true reflection. I genuinely feel that the longer you play their newer slots, the more you are in for a mega loss. In essence, you cant run it for a few 1000 spins and hope for a biggie like on DOA or IR or BDBA, its not going to happen and if you do hit you will rarely break even or go ahead.

I think its important to understand this as the slots cater for a different type of player. Id say its a player that goes 100 spins on it every odd day.

I have seen CFTBL dish out a RTP of 35% one day then 60% the next (Total RTP for all plays in the casino). If you are one of the players on that day or the next, you could lose your house chasing a recovery if you were playing on those days - especially on larger bets. The losses will be insane.

As always, I believe the Slots are random but wins are heavily spread out. CFTBL is an excellent example of losing 50, then winning 30 - rinse and repeat. If you don't get a biggie in there early - Good luck on winning.

I know this is a long winded post but I have been playing these and other games a lot and I can only tell you that my BIGGEST losses are on ALL off NetEnts new slots. Not IR, not Playboy, not DOA - Slots like Twinspin, Wild Water, CFTBL and even Starbust - its fucking insane.

Nate

Thanks Nate, I think you have explained the newer Netbent slots perfectly. I tried Faliens (Aliens) at BGO earlier on in the week and achieved an impressive 39% rtp in 110 spins or so without even one bonus round. I did get the feeling that I could have been there all day and it wouldn't have gotten better. So I think the lesson here with the newer Netent slots is to leave if the slot is dead for the first 50-100 spins because if you don't your bankroll will go poof

 

[plasticnote]

I don't think they are AWP's mate - But i can tell you that the design is to curb incremental betting to a large extent. The hits are spread out well enough so that when you hit in a bad session, its almost never enough for you to recover.

Those that enter the game at the right time will be fortunate to hit the odd 100x or upwards but the decent hits are also lowered by lots of micro wins. NetEnt are geniuses at developing eye candy and really horrible paying slots. At this moment they are unrivalled in bad payouts on the newer games.

I know that you are a long session aka 'give it a chance' type of player. I also will rough it out as I don't expect a hit soon and will try a few 1000 spins to really get a true reflection. I genuinely feel that the longer you play their newer slots, the more you are in for a mega loss. In essence, you cant run it for a few 1000 spins and hope for a biggie like on DOA or IR or BDBA, its not going to happen and if you do hit you will rarely break even or go ahead.

I think its important to understand this as the slots cater for a different type of player. Id say its a player that goes 100 spins on it every odd day.

I have seen CFTBL dish out a RTP of 35% one day then 60% the next (Total RTP for all plays in the casino). If you are one of the players on that day or the next, you could lose your house chasing a recovery if you were playing on those days - especially on larger bets. The losses will be insane.

As always, I believe the Slots are random but wins are heavily spread out. CFTBL is an excellent example of losing 50, then winning 30 - rinse and repeat. If you don't get a biggie in there early - Good luck on winning.

I know this is a long winded post but I have been playing these and other games a lot and I can only tell you that my BIGGEST losses are on ALL off NetEnts new slots. Not IR, not Playboy, not DOA - Slots like Twinspin, Wild Water, CFTBL and even Starbust - its fucking insane.

Nate

thanks Nate for the detailed analysis on netent slots. Last month, I read many members here talking this CFTBL. And decide to rough it up. So I played 4 weeks on this slots, for roughly 50K spins... sadly, I was beating the dead horse... By the end, I felt I was going crazy...

Before my impulsive nature got me and lose too much to it, I closed all my newly opened netent accounts today...

The only slots worth playing on netent slots, as you said, is DOA. this maybe the reason why netent makes this slots spinning so slow...

 

[Nate]

thanks Nate for the detailed analysis on netent slots. Last month, I read many members here talking this CFTBL. And decide to rough it up. So I played 4 weeks on this slots, for roughly 50K spins... sadly, I was beating the dead horse... By the end, I felt I was going crazy...

Before my impulsive nature got me and lose too much to it, I closed all my newly opened netent accounts today...

The only slots worth playing on netent slots, as you said, is DOA. this maybe the reason why netent makes this slots spinning so slow...

Yeah - I think a lot of people underestimate the new slots. They have potential but although you will have long dry spells, it is far from what you COULD hit on BDBA, IR, DOA etc, Not worth your money mate.

Good Luck.

Nate

 

[KasinoKing]

After reading the latest posts on this thread I decided to have another go on the "Turd" to see if it's REALLY that bad...
Deposited €150, set it to my favourite €1.40 spins on autoplay and went to get a glass of wine...
Came back to see I had won 10 free-spins - but also that my balance had been more than doubled during my trip to the fridge!
Have no idea what exactly happened on my 7th spin - but I guess I must have hit a LOAD of sticky wilds, and I do know it returned over bet x135!

The free-spins had hit 11 spins later, and despite getting to the second stage about half way through (wilds expanding to the left) for only my 3rd time ever, I still failed to get a really decent result from free-spins.
Will keep on trying... for a bit longer

 

[Nate]

WTG - Most of them play that way - you either hit it early or chase your losses from there on. I have on the odd occassion hit a decent one after losing under 100x stake. They are rare in any event. BUt a win is a win and never to be frowned upon.

Nate

 

[KasinoKing]

WTG - Most of them play that way - you either hit it early or chase your losses from there on. I have on the odd occassion hit a decent one after losing under 100x stake. They are rare in any event. BUT a win is a win and never to be frowned upon.

After the above win I went on a bit of a run; I didn't manage to get free-spins again or any wins over bet x100 (or more than bet x50 come to that) - but I was regularly hitting largish wins in normal spins and so I doubled my bets to €2.80, and then later up to €5/spin...
The run kept going until my bank peaked at over €650!

But once it died - it didn't take very long to claw back my money at €5 a pop - and I eventually dragged myself away on €400.
Still a €250 profit, but also still pretty stupid in hindsight as my profit could have been double that.
(I just WISH I could get hindsight in advance! )

 

[Googobucs]

(I just WISH I could get hindsight in advance! )

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