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Question What kinda slots do this?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Chipkin9, May 8, 2014.

    May 8, 2014
  1. Chipkin9

    Chipkin9 I'm not a Senior

    Occupation:
    Between Jobs
    Location:
    Tyrone, Ireland
    Hi!

    Just spent some time on Cash for the Blasted Leeches (Creature from the Black Lagoon).

    I've played this slot a good few times now, and have had between 100x & 300 Total Bet on 3 occasions (Beginners Luck). All-in-all though this sot consistently continues to be very poor.

    I've just spun (again) over 600 spins. I've got the bonus 3 times in this time. One bonus paid me 30x Total Bet, the other 30x Total Bet, and the last paid me half a bet. LMAO.

    I'm down over 200x total bet in these 600 spins. I mean "What sort of slot do this"?. Where's the 95% + payback everyone speaks about?

    I don't care for variance arguments tbh. In all the times I've played this slot, my return is around 40-45% (Except the 3 times I've won 100+).

    I guess I'm the gullible one for continuing to play these slot suckers on the basis that I'm bound to get a return soon.

    The freespins bonus on this slot is very poor. NetEnt know suckers like me will play to the feature and hope for a hit. But it's not even worthwhile wasting your money on this slot for such low payouts on the freespins. DOA & Reel Steal are the same

    "I'll be the bait for it". True on so many occasions.

    Still a better slot than "Take Ma Cash Again", but still very poor.

    Think I'll be avoiding NetEnt "Mid variance" slots for a while.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  2. May 8, 2014
  3. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    To quote Dunover Netbent does this:D
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. May 8, 2014
  5. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    If you're not interested in variance discussions, then you're not interested in really hearing about how slots work.

    So, there's no point in me explaining it. Except to say that RTP means return to player not return to THE player I.e. it has nothing to do with personal results, but rather how much of the total amount wagered on that game by everyone is returned to the player as"wins" (not cashouts).
     
    6 people like this.
  6. May 8, 2014
  7. Chipkin9

    Chipkin9 I'm not a Senior

    Occupation:
    Between Jobs
    Location:
    Tyrone, Ireland
    I actually know what variance is btw and how "they work".

    By your response, I gather that the RTP is what the 1 thousand + players wagered amount is; distributed amongst those 1 thousand + players by 95% of the total amount wagered.

    For example, I wager £$€1000 and lose it all, player 2 will end up winning £$€ 950 of it, I know that is a very loose way of describing it, but not in any way an inaccurate way of describing it.

    I have always suspected that that was the way RTP worked, but had always hoped that it was RETURN BACK (If you get me :) to player, like you said.

    But still, I guess if I'm not happy with the return back I can always stop playing it :)

    I won't though, because I'm a sucker and will still play in the hope that some day I am player 2 :D

    PS: I would like to thank those who have responded so far, but don't know how, any help guys?

    Thanks!
     
  8. May 8, 2014
  9. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    RTP is the "long term" return to player (and it's also theoretical) so it's leveraged over millions of spins. You could easily be 50/60/70% away from that over a sample of 600 spins. Obviously the higher the variance of a game the more likely the fluctuations will be higher.

    Also another way of thinking about it. If say you played the lowest variance slot possible, you would do 100 spins at $1 and you'll win $95. You then use your winnings to do 95 spins at $1 and you'll end up with around $91 etc etc. So you'll still lose, just more slowly and with absolutely no fun involved whatsoever :D
     
  10. May 8, 2014
  11. Chipkin9

    Chipkin9 I'm not a Senior

    Occupation:
    Between Jobs
    Location:
    Tyrone, Ireland
    HaHa.

    That much is obvious.

    If I couldn't do Maths or Calculate very well then I wouldn't be doing Slots :)

    The reason I am is because I can do both :)

    Not only that alone, but I have also hit some nice wins online, and believe that online sots are far better than "Live" slots (They are the ones in the pub or chippy). They pay better and are more exhilarating.

    I do understand variance, I really do. But when you study your own statistics in games you've played, you learn more about what games pay-out better for you and what games don't; and CFTBL is one of those that don't (For me), unfortunately. Another is "Take Ma Cash Again", woudn'r play this slot with YOUR money :D

    I guess the point of my thread is to stick to the games that play well for you and avoid the ones that don't. Ones that will eat over 100x your stake without any kind of decent win aren't worth it IMO.
     
  12. May 8, 2014
  13. mathsboy1975

    mathsboy1975 Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    software engineer
    Location:
    UK London
    The problem with your statement here is that variance is the thing that describes what you see. If you really don't care for variance arguments, then perhaps you would prefer slot providers to design the ultimate ZERO variance slot. That way you will get you your 0.95 x stake. Problem is that it will happen EVERY spin and not be very entertaining....
     
  14. May 8, 2014
  15. mathsboy1975

    mathsboy1975 Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    software engineer
    Location:
    UK London
    If you really DO understand variance, then you must also understand that it is entirely within the realms of probability that you could go 500 spins and lose on EVERY spin. This is the nature of random processes. To be honest, 100 spins is a drop in the ocean when it comes to assessing how good a session you have.
     
  16. May 8, 2014
  17. Lincolnuk

    Lincolnuk Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Company owner
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Also worth remembering that a lot of Netent slots are based on the newer version of the RNG. This version makes the variance on them painfully high. Althou i know the variance and return is based over a lot longer period but for example out of 7 days it may only pay over 50-60% on 1 day, but that day the return % could well be in the silly levels 200% + .

    Makes them harsh to play but awsome to play when they go on a streak run.

    Unsure if they return what they say 95% ish but that we will never know unless someone as a mole
     
  18. May 8, 2014
  19. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    DoA is old, still the variance is painfully high. Infact, I've worse losing streaks at DoA than CFTBL. I am ahead at both those two machines, but I have easier to let go of the latter because I always leave it when a receive wilds which don't give wins. At DoA it's hard to let go because mostly the feeling is that it will pay. Probably because those double paying scatters fool me.

    As said before, we all have our play style and it's based on feelings.
     
  20. May 8, 2014
  21. quber

    quber Senior Member

    Occupation:
    spy
    Location:
    Europe

    I doubt the RNG has changed as that would require full testing and accreditation by the licensing authorities, a lot of cost for nothing.

    The variance of a machine is not determined by the RNG but by the reel layouts and paytables, add more symbols and make the payouts lower and you have a lower variance machine, lots of low wins often instead of high wins rarely.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. May 8, 2014
  23. Lincolnuk

    Lincolnuk Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Company owner
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Im just going on A weekly Gambling column we get in one of our rags here in the UK. But there was a article also on the net about a year ago about planned updates been made. And whiles i understand your point on RNG and it not determine the variance to a degree RNG and the program of the slot has to work with each over to achieve a Variance.

    Whiles a big player and have been for many years i do still bring in the old saying of how true is the RNG. after all if they was completly Random and dictated the reel outcome without Variance factored into them we would get slots paying 5-10% over its term and slots paying 200-300% over time.

    Not a post to get slammed about but just my honest thought,
     
  24. May 8, 2014
  25. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    IF it's any consolation - sounds like you are doing a LOT better on that slot than I ever have! :(

    You will be awarded the presigious "Thanks" button below other people's posts, after you have made 10 posts yourself.


    It is clear from that statement that you do not fully understand how slots work.

    The TRTP (Theoretical RTP) is calculated over infinite spins.
    Just as the RTP of totally random Single-Zero Roulette is 97.3%, determined by the wheel layout, the pay-out schedule and simple maths, a totally random slot also has a calculable TRTP determined by the reel-layouts, the paytable and slightly more complicated (but still basic principle) maths.

    KK
     
    4 people like this.
  26. May 8, 2014
  27. plasticnote

    plasticnote Senior Member

    Occupation:
    trader
    Location:
    Australia
    actually you have done much better. i have had total 200+ features on it, 1 time 4 scatters and got 10 extract spins twice. still i am waiting my 200x win...
     
  28. May 8, 2014
  29. rshkrn

    rshkrn Senior Member

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    Asia
    I've mentioned this somewhere before....

    you want to know and validate the RTP of a slot...............you start to spin right now.... for say the next 10 years for 12 hrs a day

    I'd say that would be an acceptable amount of spins and you just might get close to the actual RTP......

    every other data is toooooooo small to be even considered
     
  30. May 9, 2014
  31. Chipkin9

    Chipkin9 I'm not a Senior

    Occupation:
    Between Jobs
    Location:
    Tyrone, Ireland
    That's another good point that I've thought about myself.

    How many actual spins validate the RTP?

    What? Say we spin 10,000 spins and our (Personal) RTP is around 60-70%, then we complain, will we still have our software supporters say, "Well you need to spin alot more than that to justify your 60-70% statement; try spinning another 50,000 and see what your RTP is"?

    I reckon between 5,000 and 10,000 spins is enough to determine whether a slot's RTP is accurate enough or not (IMO).

    Don't get me wrong, this thread isn't a NetEnt bashing thread. I like NetEnt games alot, but it's just that some of the games RTP is no where near good enough over a period of spins to say that there's a fair return.

    Just now I've had another 600 spins and it's paid back 65%.

    I think it's time to stay away from this slot, and not complain about it and just stick to slots like Thief & Secret of the Stones. These 2 have paid back with a good RTP, and in all honesty Thief has paid me back with over 100% RTP.

    So It's my fault really, I guess :)
     
  32. May 9, 2014
  33. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    All slots are the same, I have spent over ten yrs on machines to try to figure the shit t. I am gona attach a screen shot from todays play, It gave me x6 free spins to total 90 spins, I have nether had this b4 in my life and it was with a bonus, It does make you think, Outcome was £53 on 27p spins
     

    Attached Files:

  34. May 9, 2014
  35. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Personally, I think you highly over-estimate your knowledge of how slots "work".

    That is, you keep saying that you know how variance works etc, but then you say things like you do above which just show that you know very little.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with not having a lot of knowledge about something. Nothing at all. I just respect someone who actually says that upfront and doesn't reply to people helping them to understand with "yes I know that" etc etc.

    Plenty of members, including myself, are willing to help you understand. You might learn something from asking questions and absorbing the information.

    In the case of TRTP, try multiplying your spin number by 100+ and you are approaching the realm of assessing the TRTP of a slot.
     
  36. May 9, 2014
  37. Chipkin9

    Chipkin9 I'm not a Senior

    Occupation:
    Between Jobs
    Location:
    Tyrone, Ireland
    Please don't patronize Mr. Know it all.

    Don't come here criticizing my knowledge of variance. A drop-out High-schooler could learn what variance is. "You over estimate you knowledge of how slots work".

    Are you Random Number Generator or slot engineer? Well then, shut up, because you know nothing either.

    I think you over estimate how much YOU know about variance!

    Like I said. Over a period of 5,000 thousand spins, a player (Like me or you) should be able to calculate if the RTP is accurate or not. In the case of TCFTBL, the RTP is WAAAAAY off. I don't know how much luck you've had with this slot, or if you're a NetEnt stooge, but the variance is off, and a high schooler could tell you this!

    And for the record I've probably been around the slot scene as long as you have and HAVE had over 20,000 spins on this slot, and my RTP is still between 45-50%, now you tell me that is accurate slot scripting.

    Please don't come here to insult me because you disagree with my posts. Come here respectfully and disagree.

    PS: Mr. Expert. Since you know an awful lot about variance and "how slots work", then maybe you can share with us all (Without avoiding the question), How many spins should a player make before a determination about the RTP is made? 10, 50, 100 Thousand?

    That shouldn't be unanswerable to you. Since you know everything.
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. May 9, 2014
  39. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    Is the variance off? :cool:

    Don't let him fool you, he doesn't know everything! What he does know though, is how to connect with newbs in a really good way! :thumbsup:

    ;):D

    P.S. If the variance is off you should lose around 5% on every bet you make. Click spin on a 0.20 bet and have 0.19 in return on every bet...
     
    1 person likes this.

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