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Well Here Are The Pirates Logs!!!

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Pirateofc21, Mar 8, 2004.

    Mar 8, 2004
  1. Pirateofc21

    Pirateofc21 Dormant account

    On the Sea.
    I know there has been a tremendous amount of curiosity and even speculation about how I play Caribbean 21. To that end Ive managed to put a deal together with Dean Michaels from the Phoenician casino.

    Dean has agreed to publish my player logs from my play at the Phoenician Casino. You can find all of this information at this website that Dean has set up for me at: You must register/login in order to see the link. and I will receive100% of the commission from the website.

    I still play with the Phoenician and they do offer playing limits of $200 per hand for Caribbean 21 and have instant neteller withdrawals.

  2. Mar 8, 2004
  3. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Interesting. You only took insurance once in about 2000 hands. I guess that is not the way you make money at this game.
  4. Mar 8, 2004
  5. ftg

    ftg Banned User - bogus claim - violation of <a href="

    Amazing. I copy the logs to Excel and do some calculations. I believe you were doing a "go for the hill" strategy, and you are lucky that most of the time, you achieve your target.

    I doubt anyone can achieve that with MG table games. Whenever you run for the hill for one or two steps, you will see the CLIFF suddenly in front of you......

    But anyway, I think this thread should be moved to promotion?
  6. Mar 8, 2004
  7. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    I don't see no stinkin' robots there.
  8. Mar 8, 2004
  9. Pirateofc21

    Pirateofc21 Dormant account

    On the Sea.

    Robots? We don't need no stinkin' robots! AAARRRGGGhh!
  10. Mar 8, 2004
  11. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Casino apologist
    So: did you get Bryan Bailey's permission to post this piece of affiliate spam? I doubt it.

    I didn't realize you were headed for the affiliate business on the back of your successful resolution. While I'm glad it turned out as it did, I'm very much opposed to this kind of profiteering and I withdraw all my support.

    Your play logs were of interest insofar as they would have been proof that there was nothing untoward about your play as Hampton claimed was the case; they are NOT of any interest in ANY other sense. There is no way that these logs can assist any other person in turning a 99.81% game into a 100%+ game. They are nothing but a list of random events. To claim - or to implicitly claim - otherwise is deceiptful, and disrespectful to the players who supported you.

    And this is now the SECOND time Phonecian have tried a bit of profiteering from this episode. I've certainly now consigned them to the bottom of the RTG pile. I would urge others to see this for what it is and do likewise.
  12. Mar 8, 2004
  13. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    caruso, imo you're being a bit harsh here..... the play logs are kinda of interest cuz there was such a hassle in even getting them.. so to see them that they are (of course) legit is kinda nice. and given Phoenician's comps, the game IS 100%+ return (just barely). And the Pirate DID win 1.3 MILLION..... there are gonna be those who are curious how he played, the game logs show that.

    Phoenician imo has every right to partner with Pirate to turn this ugly event into something that benefits both Pirate AND Phoenician (a casino which paid pirate right away from the get go and didn't try any other nosense). I don't see any need to consign Phoenician to the bottom of the RTG pile with the likes of Warren Cloud, virtual casino and the previous Hamptons management as well as oh so many others.
  14. Mar 8, 2004
  15. EvilEye

    EvilEye Dormant account

    Not really.

    I happen to be a programmer ( as I read you are ) and from following your posts it is my conclusion you were running a bot of some sort.

    For example..

    Well not really, in fact its the other way around. A casino would only see buttons pushed, whether by mouse or by keyboard. It would too much bandwidth to send every mouse cursor movement. But just to log the button pushed and the time would take 4 bytes maybe less per hit ( 2 bytes for the button pushed, 2 bytes for the time ). It would look something like this:

    TIME 17:14:23 BUTTON 1
    TIME 17:16:16 BUTTON 2
    TIME 17:20:45 BUTTON 1
    TIME 17:21:38 BUTTON 3

    They wouldnt keep track of whether it was pushed by the mouse cursor or the enter key ( or whatever key you push it with ).

    HOWEVER, a bot WOULD use the keyboard, why? Because of desync or lag which might make the mouse cursor not be where it needs to be which could throw the whole program off. No, instead a bot would use keyboard commands ( if possible ) since it is a lot easier.

    Now on the flip side a human would use a mouse, since it can be all too easy to hit the wrong button on a keyboard especially after hitting the same keys time after time. Would you want to lose 100$ because you hit the wrong button? I wouldnt. A mouse is much easier and safer.

    Now of course using a program to gamble for you is no use unless you have an edge of some kind. And no doubt if you can turn 400$ into 70K you have an edge of some kind. HOW? I have no idea but one thing my experience has taught me is that no program is hacker proof. Its impossible, especially when someone has the program on their computer and they have the time to run packet sniffers and observe program behaviour. In fact there are many groups on the web that share information on program security flaws, im sure there are a few for online casinos.

    However the point remains that I would not run a bot for hours if I knew it was going to lose money, all I need is an edge over 50% and given enough time I could turn 400$ into 70K.

    I also find this quote a bit strange:

    ports of course are what your computer uses to send information to other computers, could be just a coincedence, but still perked my ears up ( or eyes as it were ).

    And of course there is a the tapes, where Pirate offers to sell his bot for 3 figures or something, well I dont think "baiting the casino" really rides with me. Its obvious the casino had checked his button hitting patterns and found they were a little too timed to be human, they no doubt suspected something, but since they offered to pay him for the program its my guess they werent quite sure where he got his edge.

    Well anyway, it doesnt matter much to me, I'm no friend of casinos either, pitty you couldnt keep your mouth shut there pirate, now im sure your blacklisted.
  16. Mar 8, 2004
  17. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    evileye, you obvioulsy just signed up today and.... well, obviously didn't read everything. pirate iddn't use a bot. there was no bot. the game is statistically sound, so even if there had been a bot, it would have ended up losing all the same. rtg also concluded that the game was secure and their servers were ofcourse secure. i sugest you take that evil eye of yours and go over everything once again because it sounds a bit ... conceieted that you can come on here day one wave your hands and say yep he wasusing a bot after thousands (i'm sure) of manhours have been spent going over this case. that and his logs are finally available, you could take a few seconds and see for yourself that the timing was anything but "robot" like. good grief.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
  18. Mar 8, 2004
  19. Pirateofc21

    Pirateofc21 Dormant account

    On the Sea.
    None for you

    Then there be no Rum for you lad, now off the plank with ya!
  20. Mar 8, 2004
  21. EvilEye

    EvilEye Dormant account

    Calm down gamblinboi.

    Yes I did just sign up here. I have been viewing these forums for about a month now and really never expected to post here. I thought I would offer my insight, since I found a few things about Pirate21 suspicious thats all. And it seems most people here are ignorant to how programs / bots work.

    I cannot view the logs right now they seem to be down, but I will take a look when I can. If I am wrong I'll say so.
  22. Mar 8, 2004
  23. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    yea most people are ignortant of how bots/software/programs/internet/packets/protocols/ etc etc work... thankfully i'm not the only one that's looked at this stuff and has a degree in engineering in that field. say, what programming languages do you know? what's your educational background, pray tell?

    it kinda riles me up that you come on here and start making wild claims and accusations......... that well, have already been made, and dispelled, blown apart even.. Pirate has been cleared, RTG software cleared the game and their servers, it really doesn't serve any purpose for you to go shooting your mouth off about this stuff without going through it all the way, not to mention a BIT late..

    Someones gotta stand up for Pirate, 'sides I heard he ran into some $$$ recently and maybe one day i could use a favor too LOL
  24. Mar 8, 2004
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Hi evileye,

    And welcome to the forum!

    You may be biting off more than you can chew here, since many of the members here are bot savvy. Me thinks you may be chasing funny bunnies with this one.

    Also, I know for a fact that Rich Katz (AKA Ron Levin) tricked the Pirate over the phone about his robot use. My connections in this case are far deep and wide; don't underestimate my knowing allness. And I'm still keeping tabs on some of these things, if you catch my drift....

    Ain't this all water under the bridge anyway??
  26. Mar 8, 2004
  27. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    that's whatI had thought, funny bunnies.. not those words, but water under the bridge. i like funny bunnies tho, good one.
  28. Mar 8, 2004
  29. EvilEye

    EvilEye Dormant account

    LOL, maybe I should kiss his ass too...

    Well I have 10 years of exp in C and ASM.

    Didnt meant to imply you all were newbies, but cmon, its not like it can't be done people. Kinda strange he says he did all his playing with the keyboard though? Maybe its just me.

    Anyway I dont care really, I hope he soaks them for all their worth, just pointing some things out ;) Maybe I'm wrong.
  30. Mar 8, 2004
  31. bethug

    bethug Banned User - Winner of the "<a href="http://www.c

    Pirateofc21, do you use any other software beside rtg.
    What you think about playtec software?
  32. Mar 8, 2004
  33. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate

    You seem to miss the point entirely. The whole point is that no one PROVED that a bot was used, not even close. Just looking at the timing from the logs that were posted are pretty indicative of the fact that a bot probably wasn't used.

    Some of us are not ignorant of how bots are programmed. Some of us actually program bots for other uses, such as retrieving information.

    Hampton's assertion was nothing more than total bullshit. They were the ones who brought up "mouse movements" in the first place.

    And frankly, I know a lot of players who use the keyboards because they are more accurate - and faster - using the keyboard than when they are using the mouse. You can relate that to people hitting the buttons on slot machines instead of pulling the handle if you like. But I don't pull handles unless I think I'm going to be luckier... LOL...

    You wouldn't believe how many wrong clicks I made using the mouse just the other day playing the same damn game. I guarantee you that I would have made far less mistakes using the keypad. I can only presume that you don't gamble much online.

    No one is saying that it's NOT possible to program a bot to play. If I had enough expertise at low-level languages, I might actually do something like that - but my experience is with high-level languages and I presume you know how much of a pain in the rear it is to program bots in those languages especially if you are monitoring ports, sniffing packets, screen-scraping, etc.

    Caruso -

    Get real. Just how many people do you think are going to sign up for Phoenician through those links? It's not like MSNBC is going to post that link anywhere... sheesh... and I for one wanted to see the logs just to get an idea of how he plays.

    Notwithstanding that Phoenician obviously had the Pirate's support on this, the only real issue is whether or not Casinomeister cares about the link or not.

    I wasn't a big fan of Phoenician at the beginning - no question about that. In fact I'm still not convinced that the "pirate" mailing wasn't intentional - if anything I thought it was tacky.

    But there is no question that a lot of people want to see how the Pirate plays Caribbean 21, guess whether or not he was using a bot, etc. And since the primary content of that site is just that - logs - with a few Phoenician ads tacked on, I think there's nothing really wrong with that - it's not like you need to sign up with Phoenician in order to view the logs. Who's to say that it wasn't Pirate's idea in the first place?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
  34. Mar 8, 2004
  35. jyde

    jyde Dormant account

    Evileye - noone but Hampton (you) really cares if a robot was used. So we don't really care if you believe you also can detect one from reading his posts. The only reason why Hampton (you) found it interesting was because they (you) had some outdated terms left over from the old UG software.

    It's funny you seem to share the suspicions of the Hampton ex-manager. He also freaked out when he read this
    Pirates are usually on ships and they sometime visit ports. Would it have been less likely a robot was used if he had said he was in search for harbours?

    EvilEye - could you please explain why it would be so terrible IF a robot had been used on this negative EV game?
  36. Mar 8, 2004
  37. EvilEye

    EvilEye Dormant account

    LOL, Jyde I have no affiliation with hampton. And no I dont care if he used a bot, or even if he cheated. Just voicing a suspicion I have based on his posts and what I know about programming. Spearmaster seems to disagree about using keystrokes instead of the mouse, maybe hes right, I dont know.

    Well actually if the house edge is still the same it wouldnt matter, he would still lose money. But if someone found a way a player could have a small edge, even .01%, then running a bot a million times would make a profit.

    Again, dont freak out. I dont pretend to know anything about this but what I read here, maybe im wrong.
  38. Mar 8, 2004
  39. jyde

    jyde Dormant account

    Most softwarepackages support keystrokes instead of mouse. Experienced gamblers (and Spearmaster) seem to prefer the keyboard.

    Speculations. How would you get and edge? If the software was flawed and this was what made the Pirate win, RTG could have saved a lot of money by admitting it, voiding his win and pay him a nice sum to shut up. Some of the other casinos would have had to be compensated - but it would still be a lot less than what I assume they paid the Pirate in the end. It's no big deal. Noone really expects online casinos to be random anyway :p

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