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Warning email received from Vera & John

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by steveh35, Jun 20, 2017.

    Jun 20, 2017
  1. steveh35

    steveh35 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    ..
    Location:
    doncaster
    Yesterday I found out that the browser I use, Opera, has a vpn option so I turned this on and didn't bother to turn it off.

    Today I received a warning email from Vera & John that using a vpn is against their t&c's and asking me why my IP address was flicking from UK to Netherlands, mind your own business Vera & John, why are you monitoring my account anyway?

    Anyone else get this warning from any casino, Vera & John really getting on my tits after the promotions/free spins fiasco and now sending me warnings.

    I should point out I went onto Virgin to do the free spins and they just put up a screen saying you are not in a country where you can play so I knew to turn it off why can't Vera & John do same and not send these types of emails.
     
  2. Jun 20, 2017
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is going to get more common as VPNs become part of regular user security as opposed to something users have to actively seek out, install, subscribe to, etc. As VPN is built in to Opera, it isn't something the user has to seek out an install, it's merely a browser option that is no doubt promoted as "for added security". Many users won't understand what exactly a VPN is, and will rely on it being an "added security option", so won't worry too much about whether it's off or on when they are going about their business.

    It's not just VPNs that might cause trouble, other privacy options like the "do not track" in Edge might also cause problems depending on what information casinos use to determine "security flags".

    Casinos should look at what the banks are doing. They use "trusted device" rather than IP address, so the first time a new device is used to access a bank account there is an extra layer of security for the login, followed by the option to "remember this device" for future visits. Whilst it's not particularly well implemented, relying on cookies that for security and privacy reasons are regularly cleared, it's better than relying on IP address as not only are these dynamic for the average user, the increase in the use of mobile devices means that they are going to change more often for a given device.
     
  4. Jun 20, 2017
  5. ReggieMac

    ReggieMac Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Senior Software Developer
    Location:
    UK
    Is it not stated in the T & C's that you cannot use VPN / Proxies? Technically it should not be an issue but for monitoring purposes, as you have found out, it starts all sorts of alarm bells ringing as it messes with geo location & IP blocking.
     
  6. Jun 20, 2017
  7. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Yep, excellent advice. I can understand the casino being weary of people using VPNs, but VPNs are marketed as you said - added security. Many folks use then all the time to keep websites from "spying" on them.

    As a webmaster, I use them daily switching from UK, to US, to Netherlands, etc., testing the functionality and appearance of the website via various countries. I habitually forget to turn it off. :p
     
  8. Jun 20, 2017
  9. onkel

    onkel Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Larnaca, Cyprus, Cyprus
    Well, the issue is not only the use of VPN but that it is actually illegal to play from certain locations. A trusted device would do wonders to protect users, but it would not help the operators one bit wrt following regulations - the trusted devices can be brought to locations where it's not allowed to be used for gambling.

    I'm afraid that the only somewhat convenient and accurate solution for operators to determine a player's location is via IP address, so I don't see the banning of VPN's going away anytime soon :(
     
  10. Jun 20, 2017
  11. steveh35

    steveh35 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    ..
    Location:
    doncaster
    Just put up a display screen like virgin did which said you cannot play in this jurisdiction, don't go sending out emails proclaiming breaking t&c's and demanding to know why.
     
  12. Jun 20, 2017
  13. onkel

    onkel Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Larnaca, Cyprus, Cyprus
    Well, as I understand you were located in the UK (and therefore allowed to play) but the VPN at times gave you a NL IP? What if it was the other way around, that you were in NL but the VPN put you in the UK (and you therefore could play, but wasn't actually allowed)? If the operator notices this and does nothing about it, they are breaking regulations. The display screen would only temporarily block you from play, when your IP was showing as NL, but the rest of the time you'd be allowed to play.
     
  14. Jun 20, 2017
  15. Tirilej

    Tirilej On a Break

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    Why not? Different casinos will handle it differently and I think you need to respect that too.
    If I try to log in at Videoslots from another country my account is immediately closed, and I need to contact them to get it opened again.

    Others are sending emails asking where I am and if it was me playing. They have their rules and their way of handling things. You can't demand them either that they should do as you want them to do :)
     
  16. Jun 20, 2017
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem is that some casinos automatically assume that if a player is using a VPN, they are intentionally trying to defraud the casino. This leads to far worse than an email warning as in this case. It used to be the case that VPN was for "geeks", but in the security arms race the VPN has become one of a number of "enhanced privacy measures", and these are gaining traction as people are learning the sheer level of underhanded data mining that has been going on by websites, and feel the need to protect their privacy.

    The "do not track" features built in to newer browsers could also cause problems for casinos as with the feature switched on, websites can't access some of the information they would normally expect to be able to gather on the visitor. Many users do not understand that their chosen privacy enhancement browser plugin is actually a terms violating VPN, even if they have read the term.

    After all, WTF are "multiple browsers", a term I have seen in the smallprint of some casinos of things you are not allowed to use. It's not explained, but to a layperson it might come across that they can't use Internet Explorer one day and Chrome the next to access their account.

    When it comes to mobile devices the IP address will be in constant flux in any case, and this will be outside the control of the user as they will be relying on public hotspots or mobile phone networks to supply the connections as they travel.

    If being able to tie players down as far as possible to a specific IP address was so important, why did casinos push mobile devices so hard?
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jun 20, 2017
  19. Playford7

    Playford7 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    That's a really good post.
    You have to be without doubt one of the most useful members here for your well informed and well written replies, using logic and facts.
    Your probably more help to people than your given credit for.
    It's people like you whom I hold my membership here so dear.
     
  20. Jun 20, 2017
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I did pick up the member of the year award in 2015.
     
  22. Jun 20, 2017
  23. Playford7

    Playford7 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    Well no need to showboat!.. haha
    but I do appreciate your fully analytical replies. There clearly well thought out and have background knowledge behind what you say.
    As said, kudos.
     
  24. Jun 20, 2017
  25. Playford7

    Playford7 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    And by no way did I mean your totally unappreciated. You may have took out of context my meaning.
     
  26. Jun 21, 2017
  27. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    You should be happy that their security picks this up. Its to deter fraud when people from other countries log into your account in an attempt to commit fraud.
     
  28. Jun 21, 2017
  29. BlaCGaming

    BlaCGaming Experienced Member

    Location:
    Germany
    To be fair, if you travel and end up at these locations, you play games restricted in the UK too, I highly doubt the operator breaks any regulations if the user shows up with an NL IP, its a technical thing. You have an NL IP so you can play this game, whether or not you are actually there, should be of no relevance. I get that you are circumventing geo blocking, but you are doing the same by travelling. Thats my view on it anyway, this does not harm anyone.
     

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