Videoslots source of wealth income etc etc etc

[snorky510238]

I play a lot at one particular land based casino and over the last few years they have asked a few people where they get the money to fund their gambling.They have all been what I would call small gamblers who can easily afford what they spend yet a lot of our eastern friends who are slamming polythene bags containing a 1k down every time the roulette wheel spins are never asked anything that would make them uncomfortable I wonder why?

 

[aceking123]

£1500 quid & the casino should be asking you questions or thats what my partner told me being a old pitboss.

 

[snorky510238]

Yeah I am sure they should but I see some right dodgy guys there and they can't all be earning that kind of money legitimately.I will be honest if someone was throwing 10 to 20k a night my way I wouldn't want to say anything that might discourage them.

 

[gtpaul]

Early days for all these new regs, im sure we will see some horror stories etc.
Maybe it will be tweaked again? who knows.

Re my account at VS, I cant really complain about the RTP, Im ahead after two and a half years and have enjoyed playing.

Just these new implements have made me reconsider the future of online gambling.
Will I comply with their requests? Im undecided, I have many other casinos I play at, lets see what comes through the post now!

Good luck to all, if any of your are ever down in Devon be sure to ping me on here, the cream teas and cider are on me!!

Cheers !!!!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

The UKGC are going to kill the industry with this OTT BS. Asking a player to submit a signed declaration is one thing, but asking them to supply things like wills, estate valuations, letters from a rival casino confirming a win, is going to be seen as a deliberate attempt to avoid paying out, regardless of whether it has come from the casino or the UKGC.

The fact that these requests only seem to come when a player has a big win also adds to the BS because the answer to this source of wealth question is "I just won it from your casino".

It would be far better to impose this duty upon the banks who operate the deposit and withdrawal wallets. Only they can see the bigger picture of whether the player is simply recirculating their funds or routinely injecting fresh funds from sources that seem inconsistent with their status, such as regular cash deposits or fund transfers from hard to verify sources.

In any case, however it is done it has to come with a duty to provide players with the documents that other casinos will be asking for under these new regs. So, if a "certificate of winnings" is going to be a required document, casinos should have a duty to supply one to a player so that it's available to show to another casino.

The observation that high rollers seem to be able to avoid these checks for business reasons such as not upsetting them indicates that this is not simply something that has been imposed by lawmakers without any flexibility being allowed, OR these other casinos are flouting the law in order to placate their key clients.

What seems to have escaped the UKGC's attention is that prior to regulation dodgy casinos have often used documentation as a means to avoid paying winnings after the fact, and players had expected that regulation would curb some of the more bizzarre documentation demands, but if anything they have never been as bizzare as they are now.


The only way to contest an AML issue such as a frozen account is through the courts. This has been confirmed by the old Banking Ombudsman when it comes to customers trying to escalate complaints about arbitrary account closures and frozen funds.

 

[mimi26]

Received a request today for source of wealth for my account, it was basically just a tick box of where money comes from, I have to be honest if they asked for all they have asked the OP here I would close my account and move on, that is way too intrusive.

 

[SpinUk]

But shouldn't you only be requesting it for the purpose of AML regulations if you have SUSPICION that the funds are not legit? Is the casino going to play judge and jury once it has been supplied?

And where in the regulations does it state source of wealth is required for responsible gambling issues?

Im sure some will try. Major issue thats open to massive abuse

 

[SpinUk]

The UKGC are going to kill the industry with this OTT BS. Asking a player to submit a signed declaration is one thing, but asking them to supply things like wills, estate valuations, letters from a rival casino confirming a win, is going to be seen as a deliberate attempt to avoid paying out, regardless of whether it has come from the casino or the UKGC.

The fact that these requests only seem to come when a player has a big win also adds to the BS because the answer to this source of wealth question is "I just won it from your casino".

It would be far better to impose this duty upon the banks who operate the deposit and withdrawal wallets. Only they can see the bigger picture of whether the player is simply recirculating their funds or routinely injecting fresh funds from sources that seem inconsistent with their status, such as regular cash deposits or fund transfers from hard to verify sources.

In any case, however it is done it has to come with a duty to provide players with the documents that other casinos will be asking for under these new regs. So, if a "certificate of winnings" is going to be a required document, casinos should have a duty to supply one to a player so that it's available to show to another casino.

The observation that high rollers seem to be able to avoid these checks for business reasons such as not upsetting them indicates that this is not simply something that has been imposed by lawmakers without any flexibility being allowed, OR these other casinos are flouting the law in order to placate their key clients.

What seems to have escaped the UKGC's attention is that prior to regulation dodgy casinos have often used documentation as a means to avoid paying winnings after the fact, and players had expected that regulation would curb some of the more bizzarre documentation demands, but if anything they have never been as bizzare as they are now.


The only way to contest an AML issue such as a frozen account is through the courts. This has been confirmed by the old Banking Ombudsman when it comes to customers trying to escalate complaints about arbitrary account closures and frozen funds.

It will not come to freezing of funds without a pretty clear cut case.

Positives discovered today: when alls said and done the regulator decides on a confiscation, not the casino. Thats fine by me.

Puzzling: “if its an RG issue player can get amount refunded”. Really? So if upon your investigations it becomes clear that person is heavily in debt, the casino has to refund the deposits?

Going back how far exactly? And by extension, logically a player could proactively approach the casino after a big loss and simply state they should never have been allowed to play and I’ll have all my deposits now back thank you.

If so that is a major, major game changer for the casinos.

 

[SpinUk]

Exactly, if it was truly for AML then it would be done at the fucking deposit stage, not after the fact.
In the future I guess all deposits will be put on hold until you verify your source of wealth.
It's the analogy of closing the stable door after the horse has already bolted.

This. I don’t see any future for the industry if they don’t.

 

[SpinUk]

Videoslots stance on this is that its against the law to talk about it, it isn't they are just making things up so they don't have to answer. MrWild linked to the tipping off law but that doesn't apply here.

Would you want to talk about it if its now become law to reclaim your deposits?

Not really having a good time of it at the moment are they:

1. UKGC enforces tax on uk player income.

2. Banning of card transaction fees.

3. RG moved soley to the responsibility of the Casinos.

Begs the question how much money you guys were making before if you are still able to turn a profit now

 

[quber]

Old / Expired Link The AML doc form the gambling commission website

Page 18 gives some pointers.

 

[colinsunderland]

Would you want to talk about it if its now become law to reclaim your deposits?

It hasn't, but regardless, my questions were AML related only, none had anything to do with the RG side

 

[lockinlove]

The UKGC is actually making things worse with this policy. It is enabling casinos every tool to avoid paying a player. It looks like they are trying too hard to be competent that they actually went too far.

I know if I ever got this request it would be a very easy and quick goodbye.

 

[goatwack]

I think casinos don't have a bloody clue as to what they're being asked to do, hence RG and AML are being morphed to be one and the same.

At the detriment of the bemused player, who's now being branded the next Al Capone no doubt.

 

[gtpaul]

1. 
   mimi26Meister Member
   
   
   Received a request today for source of wealth for my account, it was basically just a tick box of where money comes from, I have to be honest if they asked for all they have asked the OP here I would close my account and move on, that is way too intrusive.
   
   

Hello mimi,

That is what I received about a week before.
I then made a small withdrawal only £50 which I had won from race winnings.

The withdrawal was processed, then later that evening is when the "proof" of wealth dropped in.

This can drop in anytime and more so now after reading some of the latest comments (if you scroll back through this thread you will see my uploaded images)

I am playing at other casinos and as yet only casumo have sent me a "tick box" type declaration.

I will continue to play at all my casinos until I get this "proof" declaration, then I will take a step back until there is some more clarity in this fiasco.

Tc

gtpaul

 

[goatwack]

I take it SoW requests can be requested several times then, as opposed to ye verification of olde.

So in effect casinos can continue to harbour suspicions over your activities even when 'verified'? That should make for some fun and frolics then.....like being asked for the fourth time in two months or something.

Or one could just close their gambling accounts and not give them the satisfaction

 

[gtpaul]

Yes goatwack, a valid point, like I say early days, Im quite sure we will see a barrage of complaints in the coming months as this unravels more.

I would hazard a guess deposits are already well down and some accounts have been closed.

Whos the winners here?

 

[paul7388]

Okay i am a low roller. My deposits are fairly low and i do not deposit every day at VS in fact i have not deposited there this week.

Checking emails there and see i have had one for source of wealth. As it is not really a private email and nothing in it that can not be posted i will post copy of it.

Dear paul,

First of all, we wish to thank you for being a loyal customer at Videoslots.

Videoslots Ltd is a company licenced and regulated in EU. Accordingly with EU's 4th directive, we need to establish the origin of the funds you use to play with at Videoslots. Please complete the online form in your profile for the declaration of your source of wealth. Your deposit and withdrawal options has temporarily been restricted until the form has been completed.

The document can be located under "My Profile" -> "Documents" -> "Source of Wealth Declaration".

We thank you for your cooperation.

Best regards,
Support

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So if i can get asked it is fair to say that there is no triggering amount and just about everyone will be getting same request.

Funny that with amount of money i deposit at William Hill the do not send emails like that.

 

[interlog]

Yep had similar though I can access my account.

What annoys me most is that I did the declaration already at the end of last year. Why was this good enough then but not good enough now? Would like an explanation for it.

Rather annoyed by it to be honest. And what they are asking for in the email is rather very personal information and quite frankly none of their bleeding business if you ask me (I mean, contract of sale of a property? Seriously!!!):

First of all, we wish to thank you for being a loyal customer at Videoslots.

Videoslots Ltd is a company licenced and regulated in EU. Accordingly with EU's 4th directive, we need to establish the source of funds you use to play with at Videoslots.

We need further proof of your source of wealth. Please upload proof of your source of wealth.

Examples of documentation for source of wealth:

Inheritance:
A copy of the will that must include the value of the estate.
A lawyer or notary’s letter on letter headed paper.
A letter from the trustees of an estate that includes the type of asset and respective value.

Sale of property:
Signed letter from a lawyer or a notary on letter headed paper.
Contract of sale.

Employment Income:
Payslips.
Bank statement showing receipt of latest salary income.

Retirement Income:
Pension statement.
Letter from annuity provider.
Bank statement showing receipt of latest pension income and name of provider.

Winnings
Letter from relevant organisation (Lottery headquarters/betting shop/casino).
A certificate of winnings issued by the relevant company or casino. E.g. print screen of the casino account showing winnings.
The case of lottery winnings, a bank statement showing funds deposited by company name; or copies of media coverage (if applicable) as supporting evidence.

Other
Bank statements confirming receipt of such income from identifiable sources, or savings.
A trust deed showing consistent entitlement to income (e.g. as a beneficiary).
Evidence of receipt of a gift.

Any other document evidencing source of wealth.

We thank you for your cooperation.

Best regards,
Support

Looking forward to Dan's answer on this one.

 

[colinsunderland]

It certainly seems requests are being sent out to everyone, which isn't what the act says, in fact I know I read somewhere it should not be used as a data gathering exercise, which is what it's starting to look like at certain casinos.

 

[interlog]

Edit: I can't deposit now, so I am guessing that I can't withdraw either? What is going to happen with the race winnings that I earned on Monday?

 

[interlog]

It certainly seems requests are being sent out to everyone, which isn't what the act says, in fact I know I read somewhere it should not be used as a data gathering exercise, which is what it's starting to look like at certain casinos.

What annoys me tremendously at this moment in time is that I did a declaration last year so they were more than happy to take my deposits and pay me when I won.

Why the additional information? What is the suspicion?

And it certainly does look like these are being sent willy nilly to customers? Perhaps over zealous interpretation of the gambling act? I appreciate this is all new to casinos but it is a sure fire way of pissing off your customers.

 

[colinsunderland]

Edit: I can't deposit now, so I am guessing that I can't withdraw either? What is going to happen with the race winnings that I earned on Monday?

OK, so its under anti money laundering laws, not responsible gaming they are asking for this, which means they must feel you are a high risk of being involved in money laundering. If your style of play hasn't changed, then I would be asking for the reasons they suddenly feel you are a likely money launderer. Even if it had, I would still be asking them

 

[interlog]

OK, so its under anti money laundering laws, not responsible gaming they are asking for this, which means they must feel you are a high risk of being involved in money laundering. If your style of play hasn't changed, then I would be asking for the reasons they suddenly feel you are a likely money launderer. Even if it had, I would still be asking them

So it does:

"This Directive aims to prevent the use of the Union's financial system for the purposes of money laundering and terrorist financing"

Even more pissed off now to be honest.

 

[paul7388]

Okay not deposited at VS much last couple of months. Around xmas is always bad time of year for me.

Since Boxing day deposited £120 in total and actually withdrew more than that. Last deposit was 18th January.

So should have been no need at all to get an email today. Guess it shows they are demanding the info from everyone and it is the only site i use that has asked .

Least it was only a couple of boxes to tick and answer a couple of questions. Will be if they start asking for proof of wages etc. that people will get really pissed of.