1. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies .This website or its third-party tools use cookies, which are necessary to its functioning and required to achieve the purposes illustrated in the cookie policy.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

Casino Complaint Verification at 32red takes forever

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Warrior91, May 10, 2017.

    May 10, 2017
  1. Warrior91

    Warrior91 Banned User: bogus PAB, PAB abuse PABnoaccred

    Location:
    LONDON
    I won 4000 pounds on 32red and they asked me for documents, I sent them an ID and a bank statement. Then they asked for a tenancy agreement and now they are asking me for proof of how I earned the 50 pounds I used to deposit. This is ridiculous, what can I do to get my account verified and get my money?
     
  2. May 10, 2017
  3. Jd666

    Jd666 RiffRaff CAG mm4

    Occupation:
    Maggot Farmer
    Location:
    Republic Of West Yorkshire
  4. May 10, 2017
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Proof of how you earned just £50 is ridiculous, but the rest is understandable as they need to verify ID, age, and address, although the bank statement should be enough on it's own to verify address provided it has been sent to the current address, and this is shown on the statement.

    If I was asked to prove how I earned a specific £50, I would present a bank statement showing money going in on a regular basis. It's difficult NOT to earn £50 as even out of work benefits would cover this (although it probably wouldn't be a good idea to commit as much as £50 to a single deposit if all one had to live on was JSA).

    The "proof of wealth" is part of the anti money laundering rules, but to use the full force of these for a mere £50 is a bit much.
     
  6. May 10, 2017
  7. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Surprising read, maybe some rules have changed ?

    Played at 32 Red since 2006, loads of deposits, withdrawals (including that hit, you know the TS II, I rarely post :rolleyes:) and as VWM says never asked for any doc's.

    At first I thought it maybe a geo location thing until I spotted your in London. Best advice has already been given, Mark (rep) is top notch and will help if he can.

    Good Luck.

    Ps: Any reasons for delays will be genuine as this casino group are probably THE most trustable on the planet.
     
  8. May 10, 2017
  9. Mark_32Red

    Mark_32Red Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Head of Marketing
    Location:
    32Red Marketing Dpt
    Hi Warrior91,

    Sorry to hear you are having trouble withdrawing your winnings. If you could please PM your username I will get this checked out for you.

    Regards,
    Mark
     
  10. May 11, 2017
  11. Warrior91

    Warrior91 Banned User: bogus PAB, PAB abuse PABnoaccred

    Location:
    LONDON
    Bonus winnings at 32red voided because someone at the address has had an account

    I had my 4000 bonus winnings at 32red voided because someone else has had an account. I just rent a room there and have even given them my tenancy agreement. I don't know what other people who rent rooms in my house do. Is it fair for them to void my bonus winnings?
     
  12. May 11, 2017
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Did you let someone else log into your account and play? Or was it you pretending to be somebody else?

    By the way, please do not cross post. I've merged your two threads into this one.
     
  14. May 11, 2017
  15. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I'm a little confused, are you being accused of having multi accounts in a household? You've submitted a PAB on this, so you know that your complaint might get tossed for posting here. Just an FYI.
     
  16. May 11, 2017
  17. Warrior91

    Warrior91 Banned User: bogus PAB, PAB abuse PABnoaccred

    Location:
    LONDON
    I did not let somebody play for me, nor pretend I am somebody else. How can I know that someone living at my address has already had an account?
     
  18. May 11, 2017
  19. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    How many people live there?
     
  20. May 11, 2017
  21. miso

    miso Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    accountant
    Location:
    Ireland
    Assuming you are genuine, go find your internet provider contract as well. It might help you prove you moved in after the other person's last activity @ 32red from that particular IP. I'm no tech whizz but would assume casino can find it in their logs.
     
  22. May 11, 2017
  23. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    You want to keep all this off the forum as you've PAB'd. Don't post here aside from banal stuff. Or Max will kick it into touch.

    But - I will ask you to PRIVATELY provide answers to Max regarding this:

    It's not unusual in the UK to have many people crammed into HMO's (houses of multiple occupancy) where one property has been split (officially or unofficially) into separately addressed rooms/bedsits or flats.

    So '11 Peasant Crescent' now becomes 'Room/Flat 1, 11 Peasant Crescent' and Room/Flat 2, 11 Peasant Crescent' and so-on. Now this fact will first be recognized by having separate Council Tax bills for each room/flat and/or then cable and utility providers will treat them as separate addresses too resulting in each room/flat having an entitlement to its own separate cable/phone or electricity service. Proof of this and you should be OK as it confirms a separate address. I mean, if you have a conversation with matey who lives in flat 6 and he's boasted of winning a few hundred at 32Red and then a week later you join and have a punt and win, then all cool with both 32Red and us, yes?

    Now on the other hand, if it's one address with separately-let rooms with one Council Tax bill included in the tenancy for that room so you don't get one, and there's only one electricity meter and one phone/cable service then it's a different matter. You'll all share the same WiFi and it then becomes a shared dwelling which is NOT a separate address and would likely breach IP and bonus terms.

    So, if the former, it will be easily proven by your bills and 32Red's due diligence, there may be a delay if the address has been recently split but I'd guess you'd be OK. If the latter, then the terms would likely have been breached. Be patient, 32Red WILL pay you if it checks out to their satisfaction and you can't be associated with another account at that building. Make sure you supply either Max or them with what they ask, but don't tell us on here! :thumbsup:
     
  24. May 11, 2017
  25. Borgie

    Borgie Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Office Manager
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Dunover you are quite brilliant ! Excellent reply
     
  26. May 11, 2017
  27. Warrior91

    Warrior91 Banned User: bogus PAB, PAB abuse PABnoaccred

    Location:
    LONDON
    Ten people.
     
  28. May 11, 2017
  29. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    It's certainly not uncommon here, or illegal, to rent out rooms in your home. It's what I do, and it's expected by most tenants that the owner (or tenant), provides cable and internet. As long as I don't rent out more than 3 units besides mine, and there's a common entrance and facilities. It's been something that has concerned me since I've started playing online. Fortunately I've either had tenants that did not use internet, or were compliant in agreeing that they would inform me if they wished to open casino accounts to make sure that it was not somewhere I played, or that it would be requested. I've asked, and never been answered, if someone did so without my knowledge, as the original household account could I be subject to closure and/or winnings denied.

    But if I myself did not gamble online, I would have no idea to say anything to tenants.

    If the sign-up times are significantly different, the first being before your move-in date, I would think that the "household" changed, especially if the other roomer has since moved on and therefore not even still residing at the address, if there is anywhere to give an honest player the benefit of the doubt, it would be 32Red.

    I think the fact that they even requested your tenancy agreement rather than an immediate void says something for their integrity, and that they are open to considering your interests and not only their own.

    If a player reads the terms and conditions, and lives in a shared arrangement, it would be wise to ask if anyone has signed up previously. You should also open your casino accounts at your own home, and not from a cafe or wi-fi hotspot, or a hotel because you are bored.

    If you live in a college dorm, you should just forget it.
     
  30. May 12, 2017
  31. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Since the OP lives in London, what matters here is "Have they been treated fairly" under UK consumer protection laws. I doubt it would be considered "fair" for individuals renting a room in a HMO to be aware of whether or not other tenants also played at a specific casino, indeed, it would be illegal for them to even seek this information and for anyone to give it to them without the consent of the other party. To be "fair", a term must be one that the consumer has the power to obey or break through their own actions. It cannot be one where their own contract is governed by the independent actions of a third party with a separate contract with the company. If my power was cut off because my neighbour didn't pay his bill or fiddled the meter the supplier would be in trouble from the regulator.

    This is a long standing problem with the online casino industry, they have a fantasy ideal world where every adult lives in their own home, and there is no such things as HMOs or houses converted to flats with a shared communal post box. However, in the real world such living arrangements are common, yet nowhere are players clearly warned that their living arrangements mean that they cannot play at the casino with confidence. The fact that this isn't an even bigger issue is down to the small probability that in a group of 10 adults, 2 or more will end up playing at the SAME online casino. However, the restricted choice due to the recent UK regulations, the advertising, and the fact that we are a nation of gamblers, increases the odds of such coincidences.

    It's time the industry dragged itself into the real world and accepted that such living arrangements not only exist, but are increasingly common in a country with a severe housing shortage. It would be better and fairer to not give out any bonuses until people living in such arrangements are able to furnish satisfactory evidence that they are acting independently of each other as separate households, rather than confiscate large wins after the fact and risk falling foul of UK consumer protection laws in the process. This could be achieved by setting the system so that it does not automatically process a bonus claim from what appears to be a second account in a single household as indicated by the information collected via the IP address and PC until the account has been manually checked and verified as a genuine different individual acting independently.
     
  32. May 12, 2017
  33. syrus2

    syrus2 Banned User - repetitive trollish behavior

    Occupation:
    truk driver
    Location:
    Netherlands


    excellent post , as usual.

    On another note, what has been suggested in the last part of your post, (going by the fact that casino deals with 100/1000 player per day)
    Amount of extra time and not to mention extra cost which has to be coverd by casino.
    That's gonna be a very difficult and costly exercise ,imo.

    I think part of problem is also caused by lack of knowledge of the player OR in the worst scenario, player does'nt do his homework very well.

    Once a player is moving/change his mail address/change his IP address and stuff like that, might not be such a bad idea to get in contact with casino. inform them before he start to play there.(and this in order to get in writing permission from casino).
     
  34. May 12, 2017
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It wouldn't be fair (in terms of consumer protection law) to expect the consumer to understand the inner workings of a business. All that matters is the terms and conditions shown on the site, and whether they comply with the laws governing how consumer contracts should be made. These laws also govern whether or not particular types of terms and conditions are legal for a business to impose on a consumer. The basis of this law is that the consumer is simply an ordinary person, whereas the other side of the contract is a business with access to it's own legal team. In addition, these types of contracts are not negotiated by parties of roughly equal standing, they are imposed by the party that has a team of lawyers on the party that may only have GCSE's and little in the way of legal training.

    If the terms require the customer to know whether or not another person in a different household has previously taken up an offer, and that they will not be told this up front if they don't manage to find out, but will have the contract voided ONLY when this works in favour of the business, but it will stand where voiding it is in favour of the consumer, there is a significant risk that this will be deemed an "unfair consumer contract term", which will result in that term being struck out.

    We are in a state of flux here in the UK. Last year, an investigation was launched because it was felt that what had become "standard industry practice" for online casinos was resulting in widespread breaches of consumer protection law. We seem to be seeing the first results of these investigations and consultations. BGO got fined £300,000 for another "standard industry practice", which was that as far as casinos were concerned, they could not reasonably be expected to police their affiliates as robustly as they would police their own in house marketing team. Unfortunately, the UKGC disagreed, and fined BGO for allowing affiliates to spam prospective players with misleading advertising.

    There is a downside though. I expect that casinos will have little choice but to ditch the big welcome bonus in order to remain compliant with UK consumer laws. Almost all the problems like this are down to the fact that new players get by far the most generous bonuses, yet being new players means the casino knows next to nothing about them, their playing style, and even whether they are a worthwhile catch for the business long term.
    If there wasn't a welcome bonus issue involved, there would be no need for casinos to worry about players in HMOs, students, Neteller, etc. It would be a case of verifying ID for anti money laundering purposes and age verification, and then it wouldn't matter how many players lived at the same house, or stayed in the same student accommodation, so long as they had been ID and age verified and they were using "clean" money that was theirs.

    Telling existing casinos your change of address doesn't help in this situation, as this was a new account from the current address.


    There is an HMO on my block of terraced houses. You wouldn't know it by looking at it though, as it still has the one address for the house, and all the mail ends up in the hallway. The tenants would all be using the same internet modem, probably Virgin given the area.

    The only time there might be a noticeable difference is if a house was divided into self contained flats, rather than being an HMO of rooms and shared facilities. This would lead to the Post Office allocating separate addresses for each flat, such as "Flat 1, 32 Red Avenue, Bonusville". Some councils collect council tax on HMOs via the landlord, so this would lead to a single council tax bill for all tenants.

    There is nothing in casino terms and conditions that spells out to prospective players that certain living arrangements would mean they should avoid playing altogether, or should contact the casino before hand for special clearance to play in spite of their living arrangements. If it's not in the terms, it's not something that consumers can be expected to do and still be treated fairly.
     
  36. May 12, 2017
  37. syrus2

    syrus2 Banned User - repetitive trollish behavior

    Occupation:
    truk driver
    Location:
    Netherlands

    change of address means change of IP address.
    believe it or not, there are enough hunters with multiple accounts who actually are able to forge a proof of address to approve a new IP address in order to use the bonus twice. ( do'nt ask me how , please ).

    A player is supposed to report a new IP address. And that not only in the sance of play more comfortabl /avoide the problems ,, also to use it for any possible conflicts due to the payment with casino in future.
    I can assure you, a simple confirmation from casino (a mail) would help him alot either in court OR in case he take his chances w starting an ADR process.

    As for consumer protection law In UK, I'm not familiar with context of it.
    I don't know wethear this law stands above players legal obligations under civil law and will survive the Court (during players conflict with casino), OR not.
    If that's the case, then I am agree with you.

    There are different laws and each law is authorized and responsible for decisions within its own legal limit.
    For example, it is possible that some of the national laws are in conflict with international provisions. ( in some cases ).
    well, In this case international law and regulations is guaranteed and the one who decides what the final outcome gonna be.

    It is a nasty topic which can be very frustrating an at the same time very interesting.
    After 6 years study of law and dealing with it daily on my work, still, I have trouble to figure it out sometimes and gonna have to dig under the sand to find my way out.

    anyhow , Cheers for replay and info bud.
    Very interesting and informative post.

    Not always agree with you :), but still, it's a great pleasure to read your posts !!:thumbsup:
     
  38. May 12, 2017
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Since we use dynamic IP address allocation, there is no way players can know that their ISP has changed their address because it can happen at random, even mid session. Even if they could, the casinos could not cope with the sheer volume of IP address changes from it's player base.

    The real weakness is the internet itself. We SHOULD have static IP addresses so that they are similar to our postal address, and only changed when we change to a new ISP. Users would know that their IP address had changed because being a static address, it would have the same weight as a postal address in terms of identifying a user, and we are all used to the need to inform people when we move house if we still want to receive our post.

    The problems with security of proof of address is the relentless pursuit of the "paperless society" by governments keen to show their environmental credentials. However, digital bills are not as secure as paper ones, and even paper ones are not as secure as they once were because companies have moved away from using bespoke headed and watermarked paper and now use generic printer paper that anyone can buy, and generic printers that again anyone can buy. It's not that hard therefore to fake a bill from, say, British Gas, but this leaves the casinos with a serious problem. Many of these bills are genuine from genuine players, but they can't tell them apart from the fakes without referring to other information. The danger of course is that genuine players who have not broken the terms will be treated as though they have, and this is where casinos can wind up in conflict with consumer protection laws.

    Since all these bonus hunters are targeting the sign up bonus, it's demise would largely eliminate the "trade" of bonus hunter. Casinos are stuck because they have yet to come up with a replacement for the sign up bonus that is equally as effective a lure for bringing in new customers. Whatever replaces the SUB, it needs to be structured such that bonus hunters can't make money from it by signing up purely for the welcome offer and then moving on. For this, players will have to learn to be patient, and accept that the biggest rewards at the casino come when they have patronised the place for a while, and that such loyalty will always be more rewarding than continually jumping from one welcome offer to the next.
     

Share This Page