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Vera and John complaint

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by DrRocktor, Feb 26, 2015.

    Feb 26, 2015
  1. DrRocktor

    DrRocktor Dormant account

    Occupation:
    MAKE MONEY
    Location:
    The Moon
    Hi all,

    I am a long time lurker here and currently have an issue with Vera and John casino which I would appreciate input on.

    Basically I made a minimal deposit (£25) on their site forgetting I have previously set up a loss limit (£10 a month). When I went to play I received a loss limit reached message as you would expect. So because I couldnt play the money I withdrew the money back to my account. I took no bonus of any kind when making the deposit and if anything they still made money from me with their ridiculous 2.5% deposit fee.

    Well this morning I received the following email from them....

    Dear *******,
    Thank you for choosing Vera&John!
    Whilst reviewing your withdrawal request we have noticed that the funds you wish to withdraw were deposited but not wagered (played).
    Kindly note that due to our Terms and Conditions and in the interest of genuine game play, you are required to meet our minimum wagering requirement before we may process the withdrawal. Please cancel the withdrawal request and wager the funds.
    You may request to withdraw any winning once the deposited funds have been wagered in full.
    Should you require further information on this matter or have any other queries regarding your account please do not hesitate to contact us.
    We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause but we trust that you appreciate the requirement for maintaining high security standards and fair game play.
    Best Regards,

    M****
    Payments Department
    Vera&John


    As far as I am concerned this is shady practices by them. I feel they are not only promoting problem gambling but they are refusing to enable me to withdraw my own money. The email states I need to wager my own money an unmentioned amount of times before I can have it back. I never come across this before at other places and have withdrawn unplayed deposits several times without incident.

    I really am starting to get to the end of my tether with these online casinos. I have been playing many years online and recently most of them just appear to want to rid of your money any way they possibly can.

    Anyway I thought I would ask peoples input on this and also warn them that this sort of thing can be encountered.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  2. Feb 26, 2015
  3. bruinsdude

    bruinsdude Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Marketing
    Location:
    Canada
    Sounds like they are citing the protocol in place to avoid money laundering plain and simple.

    This case is unique, and probably deserves manual intervention by the banking team, if the amount is as small as you say, they should be able to make an exception to refund your deposit, or any unused potion.

    I fully understand the rule, and why it is in place, but there are always exceptions to the rule under certain circumstances. Have you emailed them to have your case reviewed by a manager?
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Feb 26, 2015
  5. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    .


    Vera&John is an accredited casino and I suggest that you contact their rep:

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/member.php?u=35526

    To prevent money laundering (etc), most casinos require players to wager a deposit at least 1 time.

    It does not matter whether you have claimed a bonus or not.
     
  6. Feb 26, 2015
  7. homerbert

    homerbert I-Gaming Industry Representative webby

    Occupation:
    nothing :)
    Location:
    middle of Europe!
    Just a question in my head :p
    Well, (mama i'm a criminal :D).
    How WR x 1 could stop me from laundering money?
    Really, always thought about such terms.
     
  8. Feb 26, 2015
  9. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Admin warning

    Just a heads up that you are violating our zero tolerance policy concerning posting complaints. I hate being a dick, but you need to abide by the rules which are posted here:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/faq.php?faq=forumrules#faq_posting_complaints

    You need to immediately contact the casino rep - and I would caution using terms to describe their actions as illegal and unethical.

    Did you contact their support about this? If so, what did they say?

    edited to add that I've changed the thread title from "Vera and John illegal and Unethical behaviour". to "...complaint".

    You should read this:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10951
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
    3 people like this.
  10. Feb 26, 2015
  11. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    They are acting responsibly and according to usual terms found everywhere. You already stated it was your fault because you forgot and deposited £25 when you had a loss limit of £10!!
    Frankly to start a thread with those words 'illegal' and 'unethical' is ludicrous when they are behaving anything but.

    As for the bolded piece of your post I find that hard to believe as firstly, casinos in that case should do exactly what VJ did as it's a term found everywhere and secondly, what on earth were you doing depositing and not playing then withdrawing 'several times' before? If I was a casino rep reading that, I'd be very concerned.

    If you are that desperate to retrieve a mere £15 when you could simply wait until next month when the £10 loss-limit reactivates (or one week if you change it now to say £25) perhaps you have issues anyway.
     
  12. Feb 26, 2015
  13. Vera&John

    Vera&John Official Rep for VeraJohn Casino

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi DrRocktor,

    I will check this and will be back asap with a reply. Thanks for your patience.

    All the best
    Rupert
    Vera&John

     
    2 people like this.
  14. Feb 26, 2015
  15. DrRocktor

    DrRocktor Dormant account

    Occupation:
    MAKE MONEY
    Location:
    The Moon
    Hi again.

    I have received an email from Vera and John to say this has now been sorted and I have been refunded my deposit. I apologise for some of the initial terms I used but I was quite angry and shocked about it and was venting more than anything. I have never posted before so admit I has not read the correct procedures/ways of dealing with complaints etc. Now I know.

    I am happy that this was resolved so quickly but I still stand by my thoughts on the issue overall. Despite what Dunover thinks I was telling the truth when I said that I have reversed unplayed deposits several times in the past without any problems at all. I play at many casinos and sometimes when I have a bad run ill put a limit on the account and move somewhere else where I hope to have better luck. It almost serves as a reminder if I go back somewhere that things didnt go so well last time. I am not one of these people that keep records and know where I played and how much etc.

    Also I was quite offended by Dunovers comments suggesting I am desperate for my own £25 back and that I may have issues, that's not what my point was at all. As far as I am concerned it is still my money until it has been gambled. Like I said I did not use a bonus of any kind and if I change my mind and decide not to gamble after making a deposit I should not be tied into a wagering requirement before I am allowed it back.

    I am no expert on money laundering but I wouldn't think trying to launder £25 back into the same account as deposited would be a smart move if I was trying to get away with it. I could understand this rule if it was a significant amount of money, like 5K or something, but not £25. To me this appears to be another casino rule created to encourage play.

    Anyway case closed and I am thankful that the issue was resolved quickly
     
  16. Feb 26, 2015
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I'm glad it was sorted. Sorry for coming down on you somewhat harshly, but the complaints section of the forum has been exploited and abused by countless people. This is why we are sticklers to abiding by the posting protocol of complaints. :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Feb 26, 2015
  19. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    What some players fail to realise, is that every deposit and withdrawal costs the casinos money.

    I don't know the exact figures, but I would think that if you deposited and then withdrew £25 that this would cost the casino around £5 in fees (?)
    By asking you to wager your money x1, it as least gives them a chance to make some money off you to help cover these fees.
    If you wagered £25 once through on a 95% RTP slot, this would theoretically only earn the casino £1.25 = way less than the fees involved.
    If anything, to me this tiny wagering requirement is very generous of the casinos.

    KK
     
    4 people like this.
  20. Feb 26, 2015
  21. b3b44

    b3b44 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    own business
    Location:
    netherlands
    withdrawals under 50€ at vera john €5 fee above 50€ its free and really quick
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Feb 26, 2015
  23. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Well, yes you should be tied to a turnover if you deposit - it's in the terms for pity's sake! There are also terms stating (similar to) "we are not a bank, we don't pay interest on balances or store money". The reason is that the casino isn't a free bank to take and withdraw players' cash when no play has been done, as play is where the casino makes it's 4% average edge on turnover which makes them viable as a business plus pays for player bonuses/incentives etc. Surely you can see why they have this term, and that it's not 'unfair' at all?

    I cannot understand why anyone would 'deposit then change their mind about playing' - surely if someone makes a deposit this means they've set aside some time for a play and the deposit is made at the start of that time - unless of course you're depositing in order to receive a 'today' bonus offer but intend to play later which you didn't.
    Beware that too - you may have gotten away with not playing deposits through before but it will become an issue sooner or later when one pulls you up for it - as indeed VJ did.

    It's not actually 'your money' until it's been gambled once, or in some cases 5x. Those are the terms you deposited under. Bearing in mind it was such a trifling amount, you did seem desperate to get it back when you could have played it in 7 days if you raised your loss limit to £25 OR not raised it and never got to the point of losing £10 in 7 days' time. I suggested what I did because to get annoyed to the point of throwing words like 'illegal' about over £15/25 implies you couldn't afford to lose it in the first place or you had no other funds available so were desperate to retrieve it and deposit where you could play it.

    Anyway, you've had it resolved (good use of discretion by VJ by the way!) and to avoid this in future read the terms - thoroughly.

    P.S. KK posted as I was typing this, we said pretty much the same thing about deposit/WD costs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
    4 people like this.
  24. Feb 26, 2015
  25. DrRocktor

    DrRocktor Dormant account

    Occupation:
    MAKE MONEY
    Location:
    The Moon
    Well Mr T&C's I cant see anything in their terms and conditions which states there is wagering of any kind in such situations. Your rudeness prompted me to have a look and this is all I could find,

    3.20
    Should User attempt to withdraw funds that were deposited but not used for wagering, the account may be closed. Additionally, should these transactions be deemed suspicious, Dumarca will report the activity to the appropriate authority and User may lose the said funds.


    So they may decide to close my account if they deem it to be suspicious. Considering it was only £25 and bearing in mind there was a clear reason I had done it, I wouldn't consider it to be suspicious. Also taking into account the many other successfully played deposits I have made at their casino and no history of making such withdrawals.

    So it does not say a deposit must be staked X1 or X5 or X anything before it can be withdrawn.

    My issue is still the principle of it. There are many instances that someone may decide to not play a deposit. For example what if you added an extra zero onto your deposit and didnt realise depositing 1000 instead of 100. You would want to cancel it and do it correctly. Your saying you should then have to wager that deposit you never wanted to make (a genuine mistake). Such things can be done quite easily with these casinos quick deposit tools nowadays etc.
     
  26. Feb 26, 2015
  27. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    I don't think he was rude at all.
    Just as you thought it was ok to question the casino in the way you did, he must be allowed to question you and your motives.

    No matter what you think of this you will find this rule in every casino you play at. They need it for their own protection.
    Most of them will of course see an honest mistake, but not several, and not every place.
    Always be careful when it comes to using your money at casinos, and you won't run in to any problems.
    At least not this kind of problems :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Feb 26, 2015
  29. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Sorry KK my friend, i am going to by pass the rest of the thread and state my feelings,


    Yes it cost casinos when making a depo an withdraw, Please take into account that they charge for a deposit & a poxy £5 to with draw under £50,
    I myself no that money laundering is a big problem but take it from me if you are charged for things than is a transaction, I do not no how the whole operation works but but how on earth if charging you than there be half responsible for the laundering, (been there done it)

    I only speak to live help today to be old they pass info on, what use is that I do not not, What I can say is that they may have have to pay all the $5 back and the big charge they et for fees in court,
    I do have the the chat recorded and they stated many of things,
    I do not want to sound rude or come across as a knob head, I love you all but comes to a point where 2 wrongs do not make a right one


     
  30. Feb 26, 2015
  31. bigjohn

    bigjohn Meister Member MM PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Swimming Pool Serviceman
    Location:
    Northeast Coastal USA
    Quick question for the OP, how are you playing at Vera John from the US?

    Or have you changed your location (moved) since registering here at CM?
     
    2 people like this.
  32. Feb 26, 2015
  33. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Odd - I thought his location said UK this-morning... :confused:

    KK
     
  34. Feb 26, 2015
  35. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    You and Big John just stole my thunder - I just noticed that too and was about to wade in with pitchfork in both hands...oh well. Says a lot about the OP.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Feb 26, 2015
  37. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall

    Stop grizzling - they've paid you but obviously not to the USA you claim to be located in....

    The way they've worded the terms doesn't need to mention 1x - you've just demonstrated it.

    "Should User attempt to withdraw funds that were deposited but not used for wagering...."

    So reading it logically, if you deposited £25 and had 25 spins at £1 you've then used ALL your deposited funds for wagering so you're covered. All casinos have a similar term.
     
  38. Feb 26, 2015
  39. cncas123

    cncas123 Quit Gambling PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Belfast
    And playing with Sterling? Why wouldnt any casino be suspicious of activity from a banned country using a different currency??????
     
    1 person likes this.

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