UKGC to bring in pre deposit KYC checks

[Playford7]

I've played at sky Vegas and unibet for years not once have I ever submitted docs for kyc and deposit and withdrawal alot

I’m the same, the huge brands rarely bother you for kyc, automatically done.
I’m slowly shying away from the maltese set ups tbh.
Shame as there’s some great places to spin.

 

[EkJR]

I'm not sure any universal system designed by ukgc is going to be 100% fool proof and at the same time player friendly, and if its not the latter I think there will be a distinct drop in revenue/turnover [maybe 20%+?]

Some of the cases where UKGC have issued fines seem so obvious in terms of the sums of money gambled, that it's head scratching territory that the correct checks weren't made, and so accordingly I think we will now have the ukgc sledge hammer to crack a nut solution.

If a more stringent system is rolled out across the board, requiring customers to email copies of confidential documents like bank statements, then I would personally require enhanced checks for the staff accessing the documents and explicit data retention policies, i.e what happens with my bank statement, is a copy stored electronically at their end or deleted upon successful completion of the kyc/sow etc...

in regards to staff checks I think they are called 'DBS', interestingly on the GOV.uk site it states:

"Enhanced check
An enhanced DBS check is suitable for people working with children or adults in certain circumstances such as those in receipt of healthcare or personal care. An enhanced check is also suitable for a small number of other roles such as taxi licence applications or people working in the Gambling Commission."

I would imagine that the workers within these casinos would be trained on GDPR so that should cover that.

 

[EkJR]

Surely though, if someones son has access to a parents card, then they have access to a DL, bills and would quite easily be able to take a photo of them anyway? Even then, in that situation, most casinos don't ask for KYC until the first withdrawal, so I don't see how electronic would be any different?

I'm just thinking sign ups will reduce by a massive amount if someone signs up and instantly has to send over KYC docs, which then take 3 days to be approved. People sign up as they want to play there and then, not days later. Electronic KYC could be done on sign up, then enhanced using documents at the usual cut of points if casinos want to still use that method.

Has to be electronic KYC really. Not really plausible to ask for documents prior to playing is it? It's the depth of the KYC that will be important. I think the financial assessment needs to be given time to be worked through though. I would have the casinos set an automatic limit until full verification can be completed, safest option.

 

[EkJR]

I've played at sky Vegas and unibet for years not once have I ever submitted docs for kyc and deposit and withdrawal alot

Yeah because they do a soft credit check on you. If any details don't add up they ask for clarification. The way it should be.

 

[Deleted member 49134]

Agree. At WH, and ladbrokes I’ve had massive deposits and withdrawals for years.
Never once a issue.
I’m slowly starting to shy away from the Maltese casinos and the like, not as I can’t or won’t provide what they ask, it’s just I can play elsewhere totally hassle free.

Are you talking about sites not licensed by the UKGC when you refer to 'elsewhere'? I've seen some of these taking UK customers...is it legal to play at them?

 

[EkJR]

It's not legal for them to accept a UK player so no it's not.

But I think he is referring to casinos here that do the electronic KYC.

 

[brianmon]

It's not legal for them to accept a UK player so no it's not.

But I think he is referring to casinos here that do the electronic KYC.

It may not be legal for some casinos, who don't have a UKGC license, to accept UK players.
But there are 100's of casinos who do. Most are dodgy clip-joints, who possibly wouldn't pay any winnings.
But there are some fairly reputable ones, who will accept UK players, and will pay

 

[EkJR]

It may not be legal for some casinos, who don't have a UKGC license, to accept UK players.
But there are 100's of casinos who do. Most are dodgy clip-joints, who possibly wouldn't pay any winnings.
But there are some fairly reputable ones, who will accept UK players, and will pay

It's not legal I can assure you. To operate and accept UK players the casino MUST hold a UK casino licence. If casinos are still doing this without the licence they need to be reported.

 

[MrSim]

It may not be legal for some casinos, who don't have a UKGC license, to accept UK players.
But there are 100's of casinos who do. Most are dodgy clip-joints, who possibly wouldn't pay any winnings.
But there are some fairly reputable ones, who will accept UK players, and will pay

Do you have any example of these reputable ones? I have always been advised to stay away due the to curacao gaming licence?

 

[EkJR]

Do you have any example of these reputable ones? I have always been advised to stay away due the to curacao gaming licence?

None unless they have a UK licence as stated above. This is law in the UK.

 

[brianmon]

None unless they have a UK licence as stated above. This is law in the UK.

Except there isn't a great deal that the UKGC can or will do about it

 

[EkJR]

Well the platforms shouldn't be able to accept UK debit cards for example. There are probably ways round it. They can't do much about it on the ground no but they can communicate it to the gambling authority in question, i.e Cuaraco or Malta for example and insist that measures are taken.

 

[brianmon]

Do you have any example of these reputable ones? I have always been advised to stay away due the to curacao gaming licence?

You might want to ask @KasinoKing. He appears to regularly play at several Rival and RTG casinos, and @ChopleyIOM who will probably, highly recommend 3Dice (who were accredited here, now in the greyzone IIRC, but still a pretty stable outfit)

 

[brianmon]

Well the platforms shouldn't be able to accept UK debit cards for example. There are probably ways round it. They can't do much about it on the ground no but they can communicate it to the gambling authority in question, i.e Cuaraco or Malta for example and insist that measures are taken.

Cards can be used. But Neteller and Skrill etc, can't be used.
The UKGC had Neteller/skrill block any gambling transactions to non-licensed sites.
But they haven't persuaded the banks to do so yet

 

[EkJR]

Cards can be used. But Neteller and Skrill etc, can't be used.
The UKGC had Neteller/skrill block any gambling transactions to non-licensed sites.
But they haven't persuaded the banks to do so yet

Must depend on the bank then. Mines won't work on RBS

 

[Playford7]

No not at all. I won’t play anywhere not ukgc licensed

 

[colinsunderland]

Except there isn't a great deal that the UKGC can or will do about it

My view is, if they are happy to break the law and accept UK players, then what else are they happy to do? Not pay? Dodgy games? etc etc.

 

[mack341]

It is a bit odd how the ukgc seems to be the numero uno regulator, with gibraltar obviously linked to the uk, and also historically malta was under british rule too [1814-1964]. I think it must have been our betting shop's and horse racing bookmakers tradition that meant we've ended up leading the way in the online/remote casino industry regulation.

I wonder why the Eu/commission haven't set up their own, europe wide, gambling commission to rake in some money and bureaucratic power... perhaps they just tell the ukgc what to do in any case, hence all this kyc/sow stuff that looks to be coming our way

 

[EkJR]

My view is, if they are happy to break the law and accept UK players, then what else are they happy to do? Not pay? Dodgy games? etc etc.

Exactly. What casino operator worth it's salt would do this? Baffling. Sure the Cuaraco ones in particular, Gamertech NV and the likes, still do accept UK players but will never pay out. God, I think they have stolen games from Netent and Playson

 

[snorky510238]

As for checking you are who you say you are that’s 100% understandable and necessary but I am failing to see how affordability, sow or similar things of that nature benefits either party. Compulsive gamblers when need be are cunning by nature. They will always find a way or a place to gamble. If it is deemed they cannot afford to gamble with a reputable casino they will simply move to one that isn’t so stringent. A bit like taking a loan. If a reputable organisation with reasonable repayment and interest terms won’t lend them money, they simply move along the chain until they find one that will. Obviously they now have to pay back a much higher amount but they don’t think about that they just want the money. Therefore they will end up playing at some dodgy outfit that is highly unlikely to payout and as it won’t be governed by a recognised organisation there will be nothing they can do. Everybody loses. Along with the fact you can walk into a land based casino or high street bookies and do your nuts, no questions asked this side of things seems completely over the top and I can’t see it’s a means to an end. Having said all that I hope it does come in because it will be that much hassle I will just not be bothered and in the long run I will spend more time on hobbies I have been neglecting.

 

[wobble33]

I had to send in a selfie to casumo, Thats the end of these casinos to me, far too much hassle.

 

[MaltesePlayer]

I had to send in a selfie to casumo, Thats the end of these casinos to me, far too much hassle.

PHIs (or photo holding identification) are common when a casino can't be sure on the identity of a person either due to more than one person living at the same address, age might be potentially suspect for someone on online casinos (say a 80 year old! I've had some so I can vouch they exist,), or even a suspected fraudster owning more than one acc

 

[Deleted member 49134]

Agree. At WH, and ladbrokes I’ve had massive deposits and withdrawals for years.
Never once a issue.
I’m slowly starting to shy away from the Maltese casinos and the like, not as I can’t or won’t provide what they ask, it’s just I can play elsewhere totally hassle free.

It's not legal for them to accept a UK player so no it's not.

But I think he is referring to casinos here that do the electronic KYC.

It may not be legal for some casinos, who don't have a UKGC license, to accept UK players.
But there are 100's of casinos who do. Most are dodgy clip-joints, who possibly wouldn't pay any winnings.
But there are some fairly reputable ones, who will accept UK players, and will pay

It's not legal I can assure you. To operate and accept UK players the casino MUST hold a UK casino licence. If casinos are still doing this without the licence they need to be reported.

Sorry, I was asking whether it's legal for the player to play at casinos that don't have a UKGC license. I'm aware that the casinos are breaking the law if they take UK players without a UK license, but is the player breaking the law if they play at such casinos? I was previously told in a thread about Australia that it's not an offence for players to do the same thing over there, so I assume it's not in the UK..?

 

[EkJR]

Not as far as I'm aware no. Could be wrong, the UKGC rules are vast.

 

[wobble33]

They had my drivers license with photo id so no way they could see i was 80. Also i have only one account, the one that they just opened for me and closed my earlier euro account. I recieved an account in £ better and no conversion rate. No bonuses for uk players just about everywhere, and a pain to get your money out if even though you playing raw deposits! No thank you rather stop playing online as all this BS is a joke.