Resolved Tropica Casino not paying £7k

[Zodiac]

I always ask myself why responsible managers only give an reaction if the child has already fallen into the fountain ?

Why can't they decide reasonable or correct if one try to mediate ?

If they would do, we would have some problems and troubles less. Personally it makes no fun to criticize a casino or reporting bad about.

What is going around in the heads of these owners to lead a casino ? They will earn money at any cost on this ways ?

I'm always honest what i write and i know that it gives always two sides regarded and to understand.

A single player has no chance to deal with a casino, we all know that. The only way that you have available is, to report in prestigious communities, and when partners are involved, to set them on a blacklist.

Anyway, i believe for both sides it's not easy to decide. We also don't know who is sitting on the other side and write if we not know these persons personally.

How i already wrote, i don't like to post all the correspondence between the VIP Support Agent Tracy and me. It makes no sence, because it stated all the same. Support Agents will always write what they was told by their managers.

There was only three mails from Dieter.

Normally i don't want to publish all correspondence, because i also think how Nifty said that some things should remain confidential. But sometimes you will unfortunately be obliged to publish it.

I believe also that some of these casinos forgotten what for influence we can have. For us it's not important to refrain money from partners if we know that they treat players bad or have bad terms&conditions.

Decency and fairness should be stand also in this business on first place.

 

[skiny]

You mean it isn't tarnished already

It's good advice Chu, and I'm going to take it.

It probably won't be popular, but I'm used to that

I disagree. You have no control over who contacts you but you do control what you do with the information. If a casino or anyone related to a casino sends someone private information about a forum member the fault lies entirely on the casino. Not making that information public is the honorable thing to do and not making exceptions shows integrity.

I still have a problem with casinos contacting forum members about other forum members. I don't hold other forum members to the same standards that I hold casinos. I have no agreement with other forum members. If forum members talk about each other behind each other's backs it might not be a very nice thing to do and is probably quite often not the most accurate way to gain information but people will be people. Casinos are an entirely different story. Casinos should not be contacting forum members about their players. In my opinion it's a breach of trust and again not the best way to gain accurate information. A decision might be made based on this information which is nothing more than hearsay. And if forum members contact a casino and ask questions about other forum members they should be politely told to mind their business.

I really only come here for the debates and to make some jokes when something strikes me as funny. I leave the casino/player issues up to Bryan and the mods. My opinion usually doesn't hold much sway anyway. lol

Besides, I find life a lot simpler when I stay out of everyone else's personal business.

 

[mrmark21]

How are things fairing at GG Towersoft?

 

[towersoft]

How are things fairing at GG Towersoft?

I am probably being stupid but what's GG?

 

[MisterBJ]

I am probably being stupid but what's GG?

Gambling Grumbles another Players Advocate Site.

 

[towersoft]

Gambling Grumbles another Players Advocate Site.

As I said.... Being stupid! Not heard anything from them, got the initial email then Tropica contacted me via pm here. Not heard anything this week though.

 

[vinylweatherman]

As I said.... Being stupid! Not heard anything from them, got the initial email then Tropica contacted me via pm here. Not heard anything this week though.

Probably making sure they get their story right. Bad enough looking stupid on one site, but doing so on two is worse. That's two rogue pits to climb out of.

At Gambling Grumbles they would get a "sad face" award for a bad outcome, but unlike here, everything is public about the outcome and reasons/excuses given. They can also get a "sad face" award for ignoring an issue, but it would buy them some time.

Saving that 7K is going to end up being very expensive for them.

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Duwayne,

Glad to see you back here - and I hope we can resolve this issue since it seems to be getting strewn about. Even though this isue has been run through the mill in this thread, I'll be willing to accept a PAB from the member.

@towersoft, please read the PAB FAQs and submit one at your earliest convenience. Thank you.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

.
[*] I have to end on this point: One regular poster here (you will know who you are) - You were operating 2 accounts and we proved that to you. You had linked accounts at several Rival casinos and were taking up multiple bonuses at each. We did not punish you or embarrass you with the proof here on the forum; we simply bonus banned the 2nd account and allowed you to continuing playing with bonuses, yet you have made multiple posts against Tropica since then in an effort to tarnish our reputation. It will be appreciated if you file a PAB or a PM, if you feel you were hard done by in any way. I will gladly try to understand your reasoning.
[/LIST]

If there is a member posting BS then I need to know about this. You can PM me if you'd like.

End note - the casino rep only explained some things about this issue to Nifty. Just like you would if you met up in a bar or something. It was merely an explanation of what has been posted already from the player and management in this thread. There was no private information divulged or anything sensitive to that matter.

Also their listing is "Not Recommended" (not Rogue) because of the support on crack response. (see the listing itself here). If the casino support had properly trained staff and management, they wouldn't find themselves in this situation. I hope that the support issue is rectified post-haste. No support should be responding like that.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Duwayne,

Glad to see you back here - and I hope we can resolve this issue since it seems to be getting strewn about. Even though this isue has been run through the mill in this thread, I'll be willing to accept a PAB from the member.

@towersoft, please read the PAB FAQs and submit one at your earliest convenience. Thank you.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/



If there is a member posting BS then I need to know about this. You can PM me if you'd like.

End note - the casino rep only explained some things about this issue to Nifty. Just like you would if you met up in a bar or something. It was merely an explanation of what has been posted already from the player and management in this thread. There was no private information divulged or anything sensitive to that matter.

Also their listing is "Not Recommended" (not Rogue) because of the support on crack response. (see the listing itself here). If the casino support had properly trained staff and management, they wouldn't find themselves in this situation. I hope that the support issue is rectified post-haste. No support should be responding like that.

This is all very well, but why has this unnamed person who tried multiaccounting ONLY had the duplicate closed, but has been allowed to carry on playing on one, despite having had this proven 100%, and pouring "poison" about the casino on here, yet at the same time, the OP, who has NOT proven to have been multi accounting, had their winnings confiscated altogether.

How about the OP being treated the same as this unnamed bullshitter, and being allowed to carry on playing on one Tropica account despite some negative postings here, with any other accounts that appear to be his also being closed (same treatment again as the unnamed bullshitter).

I have a suspicion, the bullshitter is losing, and so is being allowed to play on. Could be a different story if they get a big win though, so whoever you are, RUN from Rival whilst you can, you are actually screwing each other over, even if you think you have them fooled.

 

[Refilliates Casinos]

Hi Duwayne,

Glad to see you back here - and I hope we can resolve this issue since it seems to be getting strewn about. Even though this isue has been run through the mill in this thread, I'll be willing to accept a PAB from the member.

@towersoft, please read the PAB FAQs and submit one at your earliest convenience. Thank you.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/



If there is a member posting BS then I need to know about this. You can PM me if you'd like.

End note - the casino rep only explained some things about this issue to Nifty. Just like you would if you met up in a bar or something. It was merely an explanation of what has been posted already from the player and management in this thread. There was no private information divulged or anything sensitive to that matter.

Also their listing is "Not Recommended" (not Rogue) because of the support on crack response. (see the listing itself here). If the casino support had properly trained staff and management, they wouldn't find themselves in this situation. I hope that the support issue is rectified post-haste. No support should be responding like that.

Hi Bryan,

Thank you for this.

There is no need for a PAB as it has been decided to pay the balance on the account. Payment should be made today.

We have been unable to find the support email that was quoted in this thread. I have never seen anyone from our support replying in that manner and I am hoping the OP can send me the tracking information on the mail via PM so we can see if it came from our local support staff or our central support staff. I apologise that a mail of that nature was sent and we will get to the bottom of it. As all customer mails are copied to management, I find it hard to believe that any staff member would still be employed after sending a mail like that.

I will report all posts as per your PM.

Regards,
Duwayne

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Bryan,

Thank you for this.

There is no need for a PAB as it has been decided to pay the balance on the account. Payment should be made today.

We have been unable to find the support email that was quoted in this thread. I have never seen anyone from our support replying in that manner and I am hoping the OP can send me the tracking information on the mail via PM so we can see if it came from our local support staff or our central support staff. I apologise that a mail of that nature was sent and we will get to the bottom of it. As all customer mails are copied to management, I find it hard to believe that any staff member would still be employed after sending a mail like that. I will report all posts as per your PM.

Regards,
Duwayne

I am pleased the right thing was done in the end, but this is not the first time we have seen an unprofessional reply from Rival support, so clearly there is no real threat to their employment when it happens.

Whether it came from local or central CS is not the concern of the customer. If anything, it illustrates WHY it has been so hard for Rival casinos to convince Bryan that they should be allowed to become accredited. The standards for accreditation have to be met 24/7, not merely in office hours when the in house teams are on duty.

The OP should send the full email to the rep so that it can be traced, even if only to convince them that relying on Rival to provide front line CS to their customers is a bad idea. If it did come from the central team, it might explain why no trace of this can be found locally by Tropica.

In the end, it cost 7K still. It could have cost the same 7K weeks ago, but with none of this spilling out into the forum, and of course no "CS torching the crack pipe" report and movement towards the pit.

If anything, without this incident, Bryan may have moved further along the path of reconsidering the absolute ban on any Rival casino becoming accredited, and moved to how Kasino King tries to differentiate between the well meaning and rogue white labels on his site.

Given that new owners have just taken over, they could have hit the ground running by resolving this incident right away. The ownership change may also explain the inability to find the offending email that started this off, as this was under the previous ownership. The records, like the others, are probably held at Rival.

 

[chuchu59]

Duwayne,

Sometimes its not all's well that ends well. Tropica and other Rivals are fast gaining notoriety for refusal to pay legitimate winnings. In the past, one would certainly be paid albeit a bit slowly by Rival casinos except for Rivals under the stewardship of a guy using John as his handle in this forum. Now, few would take the risk. Its a pity as many simply adore the software.

 

[Balthazar]

Hi Bryan,

Thank you for this.

There is no need for a PAB as it has been decided to pay the balance on the account. Payment should be made today.

We have been unable to find the support email that was quoted in this thread. I have never seen anyone from our support replying in that manner and I am hoping the OP can send me the tracking information on the mail via PM so we can see if it came from our local support staff or our central support staff. I apologise that a mail of that nature was sent and we will get to the bottom of it. As all customer mails are copied to management, I find it hard to believe that any staff member would still be employed after sending a mail like that.

I will report all posts as per your PM.

Regards,
Duwayne

Any non-Rival casino here want to offer this guy a job? He deserves so much better.

 

[Casinomeister]

At the moment, I'm waiting for the OP to forward me the emails he received from the customer support center. Like the Tropica rep mentioned, they don't have record of these emails.

I've sent a PM this morning to the OP asking him to send these to me.

 

[Mouche12]

towersoft, I am so happy for you! Finally you'll get paid your winnings, enjoy them!

 

[maphesto]

I very much get the impression that they are being run by a group of guys from the pub or something. It is so unprofessional it is laughable.

When i read Nifty's, Duwayne's and Bryan's posts I wonder if Tropica for a certain time was run by people who now are out of the picture? Did these people hide their email records? Or do Duwayne suggest that the OP is lying?

I want to add that many of the things in OP:s first post was in live chat, do casinos always save those logs?

 

[Casinomeister]

From what I understand, the email records in the back end at Rival cannot be deleted. As for the chat records, I'm not sure, but I would guess that the same rules would apply.

I'm hoping that the following can or cannot be confirmed:

...We have also been advised by Rival that you are an advantage player
with a history of abuse. Please take a moment to explain your history at
all Rivals to us.

Kindly keep all correspondence in writing so that we have a written
record in the event this matter needs to be escalated.

Regards,
Tropica Security

...Added to this, we have confirmation from Rival that you are not a
genuine player. You simply play big till you win and then you cash out
and move on. While we understand winning is what all players go for, it
is cause for concern when we know we will not get a chance to win some
of our winnings back.

 

[dunover]

From what I understand, the email records in the back end at Rival cannot be deleted. As for the chat records, I'm not sure, but I would guess that the same rules would apply.

I'm hoping that the following can or cannot be confirmed:

The thing is, I can hardly see them admitting to the latter paragraph if they can avoid it, it's so ridiculous.

 

[towersoft]

I would like to confirm that £2500 has been credited to my Neteller account so far. All I can say is thanks to everyone!

I have forwarded the emails to Bryan and if you want them as well Duwayne please pm me an address I can forward them too. I stand by my original post and as I said earlier in this thread I am happy to let Bryan access my gmail account and see the conversations if necessary.

 

[Refilliates Casinos]

From what I understand, the email records in the back end at Rival cannot be deleted. As for the chat records, I'm not sure, but I would guess that the same rules would apply.

I'm hoping that the following can or cannot be confirmed:

Hi Bryan,

As per the PM sent re this matter, we really need the header information of the mail that was sent with those replies. I have confirmed with Rival that no one is able to delete or edit mails that have been received sent via Casino Controller.

I have personally gone through the last 1,000 emails sent by our support teams to see if I can spot any "angry" staff members and despite some grammar / language issues, I was unable to find anyone writing anything remotely close to the mail the OP received. The staff know that if a player makes threats to post on a Forum, then it needs to go to management and that is what happened here.

Some background: When a player sends in an email or Live Chat, it is automatically logged on the their account. Mails are replied to from the back-office which is called Casino Controller. Everything is therefore kept electronically and the only way this could have happened is if someone did something underhanded. It is a shame if it was sent via another source or if it was fabricated to drum up support.

I am logging off now. Thanks to everyone for the PMs and support and apologies for this rather long, drawn out issue.

Have a good evening,
Duwayne

 

[dunover]

The thing with this is, that the ridiculous paragraph was clearly constructed by someone not a natural English speaker. It contains comical errors of case which would be hard for a natural English speaker to falsify. I'm only an observer here, but I would place my money on the OP being veracious. If your CS didn't issue the chat then what are we supposed to believe? A malicious comedian has intercepted live chat? I see Tropica stuck between the a rock and a hard place. They desire to rectify and appease the OP, given the publicity, but at the same time get clear of responsibility for the nonsensical CS conversations. The cash and w/d issue can later be viewed as a one-off incident which was resolved in favour of the player; the yoke of the cretinous CS chat will stick round their necks longer and mean potential new players wondering what little forest clearing somewhere in the tropics (no pun) their operation or CS is actually based in.
I believe they are stalling on this - they have sufficient time to compare this style of typing and prose with those who they know work as CS agents or did at the time. Like handwriting, people's style of prose is unique.

 

[chayton]

Finally got a chance to read this whole thread - I'm glad to see that the OP is finally starting to get paid. I'm wondering though if Bryan would be willing to take a PAB on Zodiac's player? Or has that been sorted out already?

 

[Refilliates Casinos]

The thing with this is, that the ridiculous paragraph was clearly constructed by someone not a natural English speaker. It contains comical errors of case which would be hard for a natural English speaker to falsify. I'm only an observer here, but I would place my money on the OP being veracious. If your CS didn't issue the chat then what are we supposed to believe? A malicious comedian has intercepted live chat? I see Tropica stuck between the a rock and a hard place. They desire to rectify and appease the OP, given the publicity, but at the same time get clear of responsibility for the nonsensical CS conversations. The cash and w/d issue can later be viewed as a one-off incident which was resolved in favour of the player; the yoke of the cretinous CS chat will stick round their necks longer and mean potential new players wondering what little forest clearing somewhere in the tropics (no pun) their operation or CS is actually based in.
I believe they are stalling on this - they have sufficient time to compare this style of typing and prose with those who they know work as CS agents or did at the time. Like handwriting, people's style of prose is unique.

Hi,

We have 24 support agents and expecting us to compare each agents "style" to determine who the sender was is a task I am not willing to do. For the record: publicity was never a determining factor in resolving the query. We have always been on the NOT RECOMMENDED list, so remaining there would not have changed anything.

I will end off by saying that there would be no benefit to us in not finding the sender. I am however saying that none of our agents show any signs of aggression in their past week's work. They are all doing a pretty good job from what I saw yesterday.

Regards,
Duwayne

 

[maphesto]

I am reading this thread over and over, trying to see the whole picture. This Dieter guy, is it this one that Bryan mentioned here?

I am in contact with the new operator who has taken over Duwayne's account. He's wondering why they are in the Not Recommended section - it's because of the OP's "support on crack" episode - and now the new one with the Martingale system being applied to a game other than Roulette (wtf?).

Now, it seems like the new guy is out of the picture, Duwayne is back operating his own CM account again.

However, this is strange:

I have been on a short break while Tropica undergoes a change of ownership.

Myself and Dieter are working on this matter. Please be patient while we gather all the information needed for a resolution.

• No "bribes" were offered to anyone and Zodiac should post the mail Dieter sent to him last week along with all the mails he sent to Tracy and Dieter so that you have all the information you need.
  

Zodiac posted this evidence:

My name is Dieter and I am one of the owners of Tropica Casino.

May I please ask that you refrain from mailing Tracy or Duwayne in this
matter and that you deal with me directly? It is not very gentlemanly of
you to speak in that manner to a lady or anyone for that matter.

Now, I have read all mails and while I understand your point about the
terms not been clear enough for you on the website (for which I
apologise), I have to state that Tracy is also correct in her advice
relayed to you.

There was no cashout here, so to say we took the player's money is not
accurate as we don't know if would have lost it all. Added to this, he
has a shady history at Rival casinos and is not a good player for any
business. If you were making money at Tropica (or another casino), you
would be losing commission when you really shouldn't be.

Now, I am a fair person and I will credit his account with €500 on
condition that you agree to show some common courtesy towards Tropica
and Rival. You will stop threatening us and other Rival casinos and you
will stop been a bully online. It is not professional and neither of us
will benefit from it.

I would like to see more traffic coming from your sites and am happy to
work with you in that regard.

Let me know if you are able to put aside differences so we may work
together.

Regards,
Dieter

After this was posted, Tropica decided to pay the player. And now Tropica want the emails sent to the player. I might be way out of line when I suggest that this Dieter guy sent those emails and covered his tracks.

If it is so, I hope that Tropica can be honest and tell us about it. I am not an English native speaker, I can't compare text and see if Dieter's text is the same type as the ones in the emails.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi,

We have 24 support agents and expecting us to compare each agents "style" to determine who the sender was is a task I am not willing to do. For the record: publicity was never a determining factor in resolving the query. We have always been on the NOT RECOMMENDED list, so remaining there would not have changed anything.

I will end off by saying that there would be no benefit to us in not finding the sender. I am however saying that none of our agents show any signs of aggression in their past week's work. They are all doing a pretty good job from what I saw yesterday.

Regards,
Duwayne

I am getting confused.

When the new owners first got involved, there were "no records" of the details surrounding this incident as it occurred under the old owners. Rival and Rival alone had these records, and they would have to be sent by them to the new owners of Tropica.

Now, you are saying that not having records of the offending email is proof that this was never sent by one of your agents by official means (casino controller). Since this took place under the old owners, it should be obvious that the most likely reason for not being able to find the offending emails is that they are also not on the current record, but as data from the old owners held at Rival, assuming they keep everything when an operator hands back it's skin.

You also said that your support is a mix between your own team and Rival central support. This offending email looks like the work of Rival central support, which presumably is a large pool of agents serving many Rival white labels. The emails were also sent in January, so reviewing the "last week" of your CS records is obviously not going to spot them, nor any CS agent that was "angry" back in January.

My confusion stems from the fact that you seem to have all the pertinent information at your fingertips, yet a while back most of this information was no longer held locally, and you had to wait for Rival to dig it out and send it, and they didn't appear to be in any hurry to do so.

Despite the claim that the player threatened to post on a forum, this must have stemmed from the casino doing something that the OP felt was wrong FIRST, such as non-payment.

I think the trigger for this was the non-payment for vague reasons not associated with any breach of the terms, followed by telling the player his money had been summarily confiscated and the case closed, alongside which these odd claims appeared to have been emailed by employees of Tropica and/or Rival.

Of interest too are the nature of the threats made by the OP, since you bring it up, so as well as evidence from the OP of these emails, along with headers, we also need evidence of the threats made by the OP to the casino as they may breach CM membership rules.

Given that Tropica is regulated in a jurisdiction that has no effective player complaints handling process, PAB has been blanket disqualified for all Rival white labels, and Tropica had reached it's final decision, the OP's options were severely limited, and there was no obvious "private" process available for an independent review of the case.

If the emails are thought to have nothing to do with Rival, what was the REAL reason for non-payment.

It does seem odd that after sticking to their guns for 3 months, the day Bryan posted that the rules had been waived and he would accept a PAB, Tropica did a total U-Turn and announced the player would be paid in full. It gives the impression that Tropica did not want this going through PAB where it would have it's own side reviewed just as thoroughly as the player's side. Could be coincidence, but we are talking the same day in a period of about 90 for the independent reaching of decisions that seem closely connected.