Nifty29
Dormant account
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
As far as I am concerned the 'other angle' in this story is the potential of casinos to lie and cheat to Bryan and Max and falsify evidence about player fraud when the reality is they have made some kind of promotional blunder that has resulted in the players winning far too much. Certainly this has happened at least twice in my recollection, once with an MG group and once with RTG (not Virtual). It's fair to say players did lose substantial amounts in both cases. These are two instances where tighter regulation and more scrutiny of casino behaviour would have produced far different conclusions since many players were aware of what had caused the losses in both situations. And ofcourse it had nothing whatsoever to do with fraud.
The problem is when these events happen Bryan and Max get a lot of blame from players when they have been cheated themselves. They get put in an impossible position. I think it's really unfair they should have to do all these PAB's.
Obviously player fraud is far bigger as a proportion but denial of legitimate winnings by casinos does go on too.
Nifty it is good to hear your experiences of 14 years without incident. However peering into my crystal ball my guess is you most likely play at just a few places and probably don't take too many bonuses. Yes you claim to have 14 years experience but if you just play at a handful of places for small stakes I consider that much vess valuable experience than a player who has played a wide variety of casinos at both small and larger stakes. I mean no disrespect but if your casino experience is quite limited then your input to this discussion will be by the same token limited.
As for a solution I do have a couple of ideas. One is that the casinos could do a lot more by way of 'know your customer'. Most of us have Skype now and they could harness that in some way. I for one would not mind more detailed identification processes in the least. If banks and insurance companies can use credit reference agencies and do their due dilligence professionally why can't casinos make more effort?
Another one that would help is more setups like eCogra. The problem with eCogra is not that it is bad at it's job but that it is supposed to be a player advocate yet they never communicate with the player community. Why they don't even have a rep on here or a newsletter going out to players is beyond me. Very odd indeed. But I think that model could work and if MG and Playtech helped fund a credible advocacy service it would be a good step forward. It doesn't mean the PAB service here would end, just that some of the heat would get taken out of the whole thing.
Lastly the biggest problem with the PAB model is when the casino pulls out of the PAB process - usually when they have a massive problem (Betfair I'm talking to you). Recently Mansion have done the same. This is a bad flaw in the PAB model and again I don't see what Bryan and Max can do on their own. In both these cases if there had been a Playtech funded body with real powers they wouldn't be able to get away with this.
At the end of the day all this is going to cost money but I don't see why the software companies, affiliates and players can't all be charged to provide a beefed up dispute resolution service. Maybe players could pay a small levy when they join a casino. I know I would be happy to.
None of this is meant as a criticism of Bryan and Max btw who do run a great service. I just think it's time the industry grew up.
Believe in better!
How would you know how many casinos I have played and for what stakes? Certainly nowhere near enough to make outrageous claims like "my input is limited". What a joke.
The reason that I have never been accused of any wrongdoing at any casino in 14 years is that I haven't DONE anything WRONG. I used to take bonuses almost exclusively, and play at more casinos that you've had hot dinners. My play is different the past few years, but most of those years it was very widespread. I did NOT play each bonus to the cent, NOR did I play restricted games, NOR did I take a bonus that I didn't completely understand.....and I certainly did NOT create multiple accounts or otherwise abuse bonuses.....but hey, what do I know??.
What you just did was make a judgement without possessing ALL the facts (well in this case you had none), which is a fantastic example of what happens when members take up the cause of a fraudster who has been caught out VIA the PAB process. These people scream about not seeing the evidence, and that it means they must be innocent because the casino is afraid to release it to public scrutiny. Members make ill-considered statements or guesses/assumptions like you just did and bring the integrity of Bryan, Max and the process into question without proper basis, or only hearing one side of the story.
Your post has done much to highlight what the REAL problem with the PAB process....that is, that some members don't respect it and don't put any faith in their host here. If they are more inclined to believe blow-in Billy over something/someone with a decade long track record of helping legitimate players, then the question begs - why do they even come here at all??