The murder (?) of a Iranian terrorist

[Harry_BKK]

Coward Mr T preparing himself to commit more war crimes.

 

[goatwack]

I'm being swayed more every day by Trump's winning personality

 

[dionysus]

I'm being swayed more every day by Trump's winning personality

you misspelled 'whining'

 

[mack341]

This is a very complex area, however the majority, if not all, of the terror attacks in the west are committed by muslims following the sunni form of islam, this general is from the shia branch, and the two don't get on in general terms, isis call the shia infidels and have no issue killing them.

Most muslims worldwide are sunni including the taleban and isis, who both follow the extreme version of the religion which has it's origins in saudia arabia, our ally. [Hence their practice of beheading 'convicted criminals' in the street]

The saying 'live by the sword. die by the sword' maybe apt for this man if he had a major role in terrorism. I have read that he had a role in the promotion of use of improvised explosive devices.. in iraq and afghanistan to kill and maim troops, but it could be other groups had a role in that, bearing in mind the border and links between pakistan and the taliban.

IMO It's too easy for govt's to make up stuff post event for justification, most of the press/media won't challenge it, so there's no real chance of being caught out lying or exaggerating.

I'm not convinced by Trump's claim 'we did this to prevent a war', he's just reading somebody else's words unconvincingly to my ears.

 

[samdog21]

hey iran, north Korea , they been pulling on us balls for year's bound to happen Iran has nuclear power says only for energy use they have agreements. bullshit they got nukes. and so close to Israel the us allies that general was a killer like Osama took 10years but they got him took him out to sea and dumped him so these freaks could not make a martyr out him. the usa every body knows if they wanted to could blow any country to shit with out blinking an eye. these fucks just like to see how far they can yank the yank chain.

 

[mariafbb]

Well I think the thread title is the key here. Murder.

What limits should be set for targeted killings by governments (in foreign countries)? Should these be scrutinised at all? Or should we just blindly accept what a US goverment (in this case) tells us?

In general, the legal principle is that assassinations are prohibited. The US government have argued many times in the past that their targeted killing policy is lawful and they are not assassinations (if we define assassinations as "the killing of an individual or group of individuals for purely political or ideological reasons").

The usual justifications for this policy are either a non international armed conflict (NIAC) (no jus ad bellum analysis needed since it is automatically satisfied), self defence, the law enforcement paradigm or any combination of them.

Targeted killings are a form of preemption. And the US goverment is using mostly self defence argument in a time of war to justify them. But it's rather disturbing that this policy seems to be a preferred one these days instead of it being the last option.

Rather than focusing on who was killed, I'd rather focus on the legality of the action. And in this respect, a number of these so called targeted killings lack the needed threshold that should be achieved when killing people.

tho I get your point, a very well made one and I was watching the news and they have the same questions as you do.
and of course it is important who was killed. like what do you mean ?
US's drones killed thousands innocent civilians in strikes that killed hot shots bosses from ISIS and other nut crackers in the Middle East. Nobody talked then about WW III. Nobody was alert then. Now they do. So I guess I would focus on who was killed too.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I said when Trump was made president he was a war puppet. I believe his controversy is part of the illusion and he will become a historical scapegoat.

Yes, there will be a war I am afraid to say. The worlds emerging economies are taking from Americas pot and the only way to upset the flow is war.

They have done it before and they will do it again.

I also think Boris is the UK's version. I dont think politics has ever been so farcical and when the politicians control the media, meaning they control the farce, it doesnt bode well for a stable or peaceful future.

 

[ternur]

tho I get your point, a very well made one and I was watching the news and they have the same questions as you do.
and of course it is important who was killed. like what do you mean ?
US's drones killed thousands innocent civilians in strikes that killed hot shots bosses from ISIS and other nut crackers in the Middle East. Nobody talked then about WW III. Nobody was alert then. Now they do. So I guess I would focus on who was killed too.

I was trying to point out, that many times the (often illegal) act of a state actor (US here) is whitewashed by saying "oh he was a bad one, deserved to be killed". Much like the collateral victims are disregarded for the sake of a greater goal in those situations you mentioned.

But that does not justify murder. Especially when the act is done by a government preaching the rule of law and democracy to the rest of the world. I don't buy the over streched US narrative of "anything goes in the name of self defence".

I was making a general point re: legality (and morality) rather than talking about this particular assassination. In that sense, and in this case, focusing on the target should not be the main point.

 

[mariafbb]

there are

I was trying to point out, that many times the (often illegal) act of a state actor (US here) is whitewashed by saying "oh he was a bad one, deserved to be killed". Much like the collateral victims are disregarded for the sake of a greater goal in those situations you mentioned.

But that does not justify murder. Especially when the act is done by a government preaching the rule of law and democracy to the rest of the world. I don't buy the over streched US narrative of "anything goes in the name of self defence".

I was making a general point re: legality (and morality) rather than talking about this particular assassination. In that sense, and in this case, focusing on the target should not be the main point.

agree tenur.
there are just so many things that complicates the whole thing and it't just the aftermath.
and the whole point of the strike was so that the world gets distracted , Trump gets re-elected and that's about it. we can discuss until the Bonanza hits 30000x about it, but it's just this demented individual who is doing whatever the fuck the wants with this world, regardless the consequences so he can stay in power and show off to the world what a big guy he is.

 

[Lemon]

Fuck him. You live by the sword etc...

 

[bamberfishcake]

Fuck him. You live by the sword etc...

Problem is i dont think the UK government will take that attitude. Im afraid that we may die by the same sword.

 

[EkJR]

More chance of a Monopoly Megaways big win than a full scale conflict here.

 

[bamberfishcake]

More chance of a Monopoly Megaways big win than a full scale conflict here.

I dont think we will ever see a full scale conflict. Not a WW3 as such. I cannot see a benefit for any nation with military might of significance or for mankind.

Americas business is in war though and war also upsets financial markets. Through every catastrophe there is financial opportunity.

I dont think you will see Russian soldeirs on the ground against UK or China or Koreans or Americans etc fighting it out in the streets but there is tension and the powers that be are grappling with each other every day for their share of greed.

The pot is not big enough for everyone to have solid gold toilets and Bentleys, thats a fact.

 

[mariafbb]

I dont think we will ever see a full scale conflict. Not a WW3 as such. I cannot see a benefit for any nation with military might of significance or for mankind.

Americas business is in war though and war also upsets financial markets. Through every catastrophe there is financial opportunity.

I dont think you will see Russian soldeirs on the ground against UK or China or Koreans or Americans etc fighting it out in the streets but there is tension and the powers that be are grappling with each other every day for their share of greed.

The pot is not big enough for everyone to have solid gold toilets and Bentleys, thats a fact.

I tend to agree with you.
there is just a small pice of puzzle.
unfortunately in play is the guy in the White House , in charge to weight all of this stuff before sending strikes , what's good for the world, what's not. Short term, long term. This guy is considering himself , his power on top of all that first. that what he consider and will forever consider first when making decisions. It's like Trump First ( him, his beliefs, his army , his guns, his stock market ) , America second. The rest of the world can suck it. And he showed this time and time again,
so that's my only concern.


tho I do hope cooler heads will prevail and things will slow down in the next few years regarding the conflict with Iran

 

[EkJR]

I dont think we will ever see a full scale conflict. Not a WW3 as such. I cannot see a benefit for any nation with military might of significance or for mankind.

Americas business is in war though and war also upsets financial markets. Through every catastrophe there is financial opportunity.

I dont think you will see Russian soldeirs on the ground against UK or China or Koreans or Americans etc fighting it out in the streets but there is tension and the powers that be are grappling with each other every day for their share of greed.

The pot is not big enough for everyone to have solid gold toilets and Bentleys, thats a fact.

I do agree here totally. Lockheed Martin, BAE shares have gone up a fair bit already since this happened. Must be time to test some new weaponry.

 

[SteveBr]

My kids keep asking me if there is going to be a “World War” over this. They keep seeing WW3 memes on TikTok and Instagram and are understandably worried about what it all means.

There is no way there will be a global conflict over this. If any conflict it will be local in scale and confined to the Middle East. I suspect the Strait of Hormuz could get pretty hot. The Iranians can’t really do anything about the US save for rattling a few sabres and authorising more small scale attacks against US interests in Iraq and elsewhere.

The killing will enrage many Muslims and no doubt there will be an increase in low scale/high impact terrorist attacks, but ultimately they are screwed if they think they can make the US “pay” for what they have done.

The US military might is on a scale never before seen in the history of the world. There is no country or alliance of countries even remotely close to being able to take them on. Putin knows this and Xi Jinpin knows this. Sure, cyber warfare will play a significant part in any conflict, but the US won’t be slouching in that respect either.

They didn’t assassinate Soleimani because he was planning attacks or similar, they did it because they can. It will help Trump solidify his support in this election year, it will help the Military Industrial Complex make even more money and it also sends a message to their enemies of what’s likely to happen if you go against their interests.

The next few weeks and months are going to be very interesting, that’s for sure.

 

[bamberfishcake]

My kids keep asking me if there is going to be a “World War” over this

The reality is that the people who are pulling the strings of all nations need not worry like this and their kids need not worry as ours do. I have not taken my kids into London yet and would love to. I am only 40 minutes away.

The terror attacks hit the tourist areas not the private security manned areas of the rich so there is little consequence for anybody but the common man in the West (pardon the dated expression ladies).

They didn’t assassinate Soleimani because he was planning attacks or similar, they did it because they can. It will help Trump solidify his support in this election year, it will help the Military Industrial Complex make even more money and it also sends a message to their enemies of what’s likely to happen if you go against their interests.

Amen to that. Are they still wrangling for control of oil in that area also?

 

[dealer wins]

I think "Murder" is the wrong word here, more like Justice for all his innocent victims!

 

[mack341]

Trump says US ready to strike 52 Iranian sites if Tehran attacks - bbc

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and from his twitter

The United States just spent Two Trillion Dollars on Military Equipment. We are the biggest and by far the BEST in the World! If Iran attacks an American Base, or any American, we will be sending some of that brand new beautiful equipment their way...and without hesitation!

....Iran has been nothing but problems for many years. Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!

-------

This is a tinderbox situation, with layed out conditions/ a red line so open to a 'false flag' set-up attack he's made himself a hostage to fortune, but would he green light a major military operation this close to an election ? Boots on the ground definitely no, but bombing from the air very possibly...

Trump's already toxic to many eyes, and it doesn't bother him, it looks like he'll be happy to carry the can to get this attack under way [dreamed and thought about for many years by the likes of john bolton and lindsey graham]. It's as though he's no longer in control now, the rhetoric on his twitter is basically to 'post justify' a coming conflict, but I hope not.

 

[Steviedoo]

interesting article in the Atlantic

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[shadow123]

Been waiting for Trump to do something really stoopid ever since he was elected, now is his time.
Why is it always the old people who endanger peace, suppose they have less to lose if it goes
pear shaped but can they really be that selfish.

 

[goatwack]

Good job Trumpy. Now Iraq wants to expel U.S troops on its soil, and communication with the U.S government to be criminalized!

Hello ISIS 2.0

 

[Harry_BKK]

In some way, Mr T reminds me of Napoleon Bonaparte. Threaten everyone around you with destruction, fight economic and military wars with anyone you can think of and become a megalomaniac until reality gets the better of you.

This is what he said last night about bombing cultural sites, which is a war crime:

"They're allowed to kill our people, they're allowed to torture and maim our people, they're allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people, and we're not allowed to touch their cultural sites? It doesn't work that way."

and regarding Iraq after their parliament voted for all foreign troops to leave the country.

"If they do ask us to leave, if we don't do it in a very friendly basis, we will charge them sanctions like they've never seen before ever. It'll make Iranian sanctions look somewhat tame."

Just like Napoleon, Mr T thinks he rules the world forever. It is true that the US has indeed done that since WWII (started actually after WWI which led to the Great Depression) simply because they stayed out of it until the very end. They did though supply weapons to both sides, yes indeed, and accepted payments in gold only. By the end of WWII, the US held the vast majority of gold in its vaults, which led then in 1944 to the Bretton-Woods system. The idea of the US was that they keep the gold from all those countries as no one had the money to pay the US to get it back.

The US dollar was then linked to the gold reserves and thus the US became the only country which is allowed to print money without limits and the US dollar the world reserve currency. When Bretton Woods was cancelled, countries kept the US dollar as reserve currency (according to the latest from the IMF 61% of world money is held in US$) and also left most of the gold in the US.

That, together with the fact that the US did not have to rebuild a country after WWII, is the main reason for the US dominance we have today.

However, you only need one nutcase like Mr T (aka the US Napoleon) to overdo everything and open economic and military fronts everywhere in the world to weaken that power. If not contained at some point, it will eventually lead to the end of world dominance as countries will reach breaking point where they will start retaliating in ways they see fit.

As I see it now, Mr T is convinced he can do whatever he wants, no matter the laws, no matter if treaties were signed (Napoleon and Spain are a good example), no matter anything really. He is simply a coward who has been able to be a bully all his life, first because his father gave him millions (some $1B they say which he lost in 10 years ), then Roy Cohn, etc. Now he is at the helm of the most powerful army and country and he knows no bounds.

What makes it all worse is that I see a good chance for him being reelected in November. US people are that mad, stupid and power-hungry themselves (well, a good portion). I have read extensively in the forums over the last days and I was flabbergasted at the boasting from most posters. They are totally proud for what Mr T has done. You often read stuff that sounds like: "we are invincible, anyone against us will and must be obliterated". Now, you think this would happen in right-wing fringe forums, no, this was e.g. on Yahoo, Bloomberg and Reuters.

In some twisted way, I wish Mr T to be reelected as it will probably lead to the end of US dominance because another four years will be enough to alienate everyone and worse for the US, countries and people will look to become less dependent on anything made in and by the US. One good example is Huawei, they now develop their own OS platform. Let them finish it and Google will start losing its dominant role. Or the Petro-Yuan the Chinese government introduced, still just a peripheral role but give it another 4 years of Mr T's nonsense and it might not be that peripheral then.

Time will tell, but it sure is some mess and all that thanks to a second-rate real estate braggart from NY.

P.S. Hitler was the next perfect example of a nutcase, seems like the world has or needs one every century. Mr T is surely one his way to become that for the 21st century.

 

[dionysus]

jinkies; long read
will scour later
a few points - in posts, in red

In some way, Mr T reminds me of Napoleon Bonaparte. Threaten everyone around you with destruction, fight economic and military wars with anyone you can think of and become a megalomaniac until reality gets the better of you.

This is what he said last night about bombing cultural sites, which is a war crime:

"They're allowed to kill our people, they're allowed to torture and maim our people, they're allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people, and we're not allowed to touch their cultural sites? It doesn't work that way."

and regarding Iraq after their parliament voted for all foreign troops to leave the country.

"If they do ask us to leave, if we don't do it in a very friendly basis, we will charge them sanctions like they've never seen before ever. It'll make Iranian sanctions look somewhat tame."

Just like Napoleon, Mr T thinks he rules the world forever. It is true that the US has indeed done that since WWII (started actually after WWI which led to the Great Depression) simply because they stayed out of it until the very end. They did though supply weapons to both sides, yes indeed, and accepted payments in gold only. By the end of WWII, the US held the vast majority of gold in its vaults, which led then in 1944 to the Bretton-Woods system. The idea of the US was that they keep the gold from all those countries as no one had the money to pay the US to get it back.

Granted, the US was.....was the preeminent world power

The US dollar was then linked to the gold reserves and thus the US became the only country which is allowed to print money without limits and the US dollar the world reserve currency. When Bretton Woods was cancelled, countries kept the US dollar as reserve currency (according to the latest from the IMF 61% of world money is held in US$) and also left most of the gold in the US.

That, together with the fact that the US did not have to rebuild a country after WWII, is the main reason for the US dominance we have today.

However, you only need one nutcase like Mr T (aka the US Napoleon) to overdo everything and open economic and military fronts everywhere in the world to weaken that power. If not contained at some point, it will eventually lead to the end of world dominance as countries will reach breaking point where they will start retaliating in ways they see fit.

to first point in red...one man can and will undo generations of 'power' and 'respect'

As I see it now, Mr T is convinced he can do whatever he wants, no matter the laws, no matter if treaties were signed (Napoleon and Spain are a good example), no matter anything really. He is simply a coward who has been able to be a bully all his life, first because his father gave him millions (some $1B they say which he lost in 10 years ), then Roy Cohn, etc. Now he is at the helm of the most powerful army and country and he knows no bounds.

until he's taken to task - even dullards wont bow to a dictatorhip given enough introspection and time

What makes it all worse is that I see a good chance for him being reelected in November. US people are that mad, stupid and power-hungry themselves (well, a good portion). I have read extensively in the forums over the last days and I was flabbergasted at the boasting from most posters. They are totally proud for what Mr T has done. You often read stuff that sounds like: "we are invincible, anyone against us will and must be obliterated". Now, you think this would happen in right-wing fringe forums, no, this was e.g. on Yahoo, Bloomberg and Reuters.

but for neighbours, again, will take him to task

In some twisted way, I wish Mr T to be reelected as it will probably lead to the end of US dominance because another four years will be enough to alienate everyone and worse for the US, countries and people will look to become less dependent on anything made in and by the US. One good example is Huawei, they now develop their own OS platform. Let them finish it and Google will start losing its dominant role. Or the Petro-Yuan the Chinese government introduced, still just a peripheral role but give it another 4 years of Mr T's nonsense and it might not be that peripheral then.

Time will tell, but it sure is some mess and all that thanks to a second-rate real estate braggart from NY.

P.S. Hitler was the next perfect example of a nutcase, seems like the world has or needs one every century. Mr T is surely one his way to become that for the 21st century.

I very, very rarely post in political threads...however, it's well leaked into Canadian - by dint of belief or proximity - security

FTY in-posts are essentially agreed upon points

 

[JohnSnow]

I'm Iranian and I can tell you this much.. this was an act of war. This general was the reason ISIS couldn't win in Iraq and Syria. America is about 100x times more powerful but hey have started a war that they cannot possibly win. They could even nuke the whole country in one go and still lose.

How long has America been in Iraq? How is he Taliban doing these days after over a decade of American intervention? Iranians are now again United while it was heading the opposite way. Iran is declared a terrorist state? When was the last time you encountered a iranian extremist who blew himself up in the name of whatever God? Never...

How many Saudi nationalist were in the 9-11 attacks? And who is America's biggest Ally in the middle East next to Israel? Calling Soleimani a terrorist while without him ISIS would be thriving in Iraq and Syria now. That is the reason why millions of people were in tears yesterday. This guy has saved many iranian lives in the Iraq Iran war while almost the whole world including Europe and the US were giving arms to Saddam like candy to battle Iran.

Iranian government is corrupt but not as much as the warmongers in the US. I love American people, however I hate your government and all the lies and propaganda they spread and this is coming from someone that doesn't even agree with the government of Iran in many many things. Trump has gone too far and he didn't think about the consequences, you are not fighting a war against a country anymore.