Take Note and be warned your MAC is tracked

[dogshead1]

All the usuall same people attempting to discredited the post LMAO!!!!

Actually totally ignoring the evidence and statistical data put forth. This is a very small sample of a huge array of near identical scenario collared by myself and many other including affiliates.
For those that wish to believe there is no capability to track your wins and losses through account name and MAC address are naive.

All your smart phones are social media activity are easily tracked and the algorithms then Spam and filter your feeds tailored to your interests and popular searches discussions and topics. Google ffs and tracking cookies rely on the same shit through tracking cookies so don’t try to tell me and everyone else that’s out theories and suggestions are nonsense.

Secondly moreso. Trying to suggest the Casino does not need to be greedy and developers alike don’t make me laugh. The CEO’s of full tilt Poker before the got brought out by Pokerstars. Ultimate Bet, Smartlive all cheated there customers and all inside staff knew but no whistle blowers as they were all on the payroll earning cherry pie until it went sour. And yet still they were afraid due to the financial power and dark seedy offshore powers the company’s could utilise to quash there cry’s.

Cambridge Analytica UK corporate company founded and funded by ex British intelligence and MPs. Used IP tracking and algorithms combined with fake accounts on all social media for financial gain, media manipulation, fake news and probably helped to steer the Brexit Vote in favour of majority through fake accounts. (Well done for that one by the way).

Moral of this post is every gets greedy and always want a bigger peice if the pie.

Oh and a conspiricy is on a conspiracy if it’s based on factual evidence that some wants to debunk.

Where is the randomness in these 2.5k spins alone over 4 different casinos at different times of the 48 hour period. Split in two 1k+ sessions and near identical and I’ve posted the same results previously after large wins from Bonanza.

By all means not expecting to win every spin but to coincidentally see such a huge drop in RTP and behaviour in the slot and developers slots after large wins and cash outs from an account and MAC address is no coincidence. Wether it’s days hours, minutes or months after your getting the same results. Compensated, tracked and rigged!!!

 

[snorky510238]

What kind of testing would pick up illegal games? If they are running illegal content they are hardly likely to put the casino in front of any decent regulator.

So they are rogue for this reason and it’s common knowledge but nobody shuts them down.

 

[colinsunderland]

All the usuall same people attempting to discredited the post LMAO!!!!

Actually totally ignoring the evidence and statistical data put forth. This is a very small sample of a huge array of near identical scenario collared by myself and many other including affiliates.
For those that wish to believe there is no capability to track your wins and losses through account name and MAC address are naive.

All your smart phones are social media activity are easily tracked and the algorithms then Spam and filter your feeds tailored to your interests and popular searches discussions and topics. Google ffs and tracking cookies rely on the same shit through tracking cookies so don’t try to tell me and everyone else that’s out theories and suggestions are nonsense.

Secondly moreso. Trying to suggest the Casino does not need to be greedy and developers alike don’t make me laugh. The CEO’s of full tilt Poker before the got brought out by Pokerstars. Ultimate Bet, Smartlive all cheated there customers and all inside staff knew but no whistle blowers as they were all on the payroll earning cherry pie until it went sour. And yet still they were afraid due to the financial power and dark seedy offshore powers the company’s could utilise to quash there cry’s.

Cambridge Analytica UK corporate company founded and funded by ex British intelligence and MPs. Used IP tracking and algorithms combined with fake accounts on all social media for financial gain, media manipulation, fake news and probably helped to steer the Brexit Vote in favour of majority through fake accounts. (Well done for that one by the way).

Moral of this post is every gets greedy and always want a bigger peice if the pie.

Oh and a conspiricy is on a conspiracy if it’s based on factual evidence that some wants to debunk.

Where is the randomness in these 2.5k spins alone over 4 different casinos at different times of the 48 hour period. Split in two 1k+ sessions and near identical and I’ve posted the same results previously after large wins from Bonanza.

By all means not expecting to win every spin but to coincidentally see such a huge drop in RTP and behaviour in the slot and developers slots after large wins and cash outs from an account and MAC address is no coincidence. Wether it’s days hours, minutes or months after your getting the same results. Compensated, tracked and rigged!!!

Earlier this year I won £3k on Bonanza at SkyVegas, £4800 at Casumo, £1200 at LeoVegas and £1600 at Videoslots, all over 3 days (single wins). How do you explain that if what you say is true, surely after the £3k at Sky the other wins shouldn't have happened?
I've had numerous large wins on Novo games spread across different casinos within a space of under a week too.

What I find is that, if a game is paying out, it's paying out. Sometimes I'll keep an eye on threads on here and play games that suddenly seem to get a few large win screenshots posted in the space of 24-48 hours, and regularly have won, other times when there isn't any I lose. I don't think swings like that are account specific, just the games balancing out the RTP if anything.

If you are sure you are right, why not show the evidence, do some packet sniffing or something? Or if you are sure your wins/losses are based around your MAC address, then when you win, spoof it and then it will let you win again. Will be a millionaire in no time

 

[goatwack]

Goatyman... Not you as well

Yes there are parts of the industry that are not the best. Yes some casinos could be more transparent. Yes they could be friendlier to players.

But this is the same in every industry in the world - there are car garages that are good .Good service, good prices and don't rip you off. There are also the opposite to that. Eventually people learn and avoid the bad garages and hopefully they go out of business. Casinos are no different. There is bad and good in everything. That's why CM exists... But if you don't even believe the honest people on here then there is very little more we can go for you

I do think you're honest, just that some elements even you aren't privy to. No one can say with 100% certainty the ins & outs of what goes on behind the scenes

And no I'm not talking about some conspiracy based on an underground cabal run by crab people

 

[trancemonkey]

I do think you're honest, just that some elements even you aren't privy to. No one can say with 100% certainty the ins & outs of what goes on behind the scenes

And no I'm not talking about some conspiracy based on an underground cabal run by crab people

I know exactly what goes in to game software...

I admit I don't know what goes in to casino software but then people are saying the games are rigged

 

[trancemonkey]

So they are rogue for this reason and it’s common knowledge but nobody shuts them down.

Well as they are hosted in countries where legislation is lax or non-existant, then it's hard. But you're right they should be

 

[trancemonkey]

All the usuall same people attempting to discredited the post LMAO!!!!

Actually totally ignoring the evidence and statistical data put forth. This is a very small sample of a huge array of near identical scenario collared by myself and many other including affiliates.
For those that wish to believe there is no capability to track your wins and losses through account name and MAC address are naive.

All your smart phones are social media activity are easily tracked and the algorithms then Spam and filter your feeds tailored to your interests and popular searches discussions and topics. Google ffs and tracking cookies rely on the same shit through tracking cookies so don’t try to tell me and everyone else that’s out theories and suggestions are nonsense.

Secondly moreso. Trying to suggest the Casino does not need to be greedy and developers alike don’t make me laugh. The CEO’s of full tilt Poker before the got brought out by Pokerstars. Ultimate Bet, Smartlive all cheated there customers and all inside staff knew but no whistle blowers as they were all on the payroll earning cherry pie until it went sour. And yet still they were afraid due to the financial power and dark seedy offshore powers the company’s could utilise to quash there cry’s.

Cambridge Analytica UK corporate company founded and funded by ex British intelligence and MPs. Used IP tracking and algorithms combined with fake accounts on all social media for financial gain, media manipulation, fake news and probably helped to steer the Brexit Vote in favour of majority through fake accounts. (Well done for that one by the way).

Moral of this post is every gets greedy and always want a bigger peice if the pie.

Oh and a conspiricy is on a conspiracy if it’s based on factual evidence that some wants to debunk.

Where is the randomness in these 2.5k spins alone over 4 different casinos at different times of the 48 hour period. Split in two 1k+ sessions and near identical and I’ve posted the same results previously after large wins from Bonanza.

By all means not expecting to win every spin but to coincidentally see such a huge drop in RTP and behaviour in the slot and developers slots after large wins and cash outs from an account and MAC address is no coincidence. Wether it’s days hours, minutes or months after your getting the same results. Compensated, tracked and rigged!!!

So feel free to post statistical data proving the game is rigged / compensated.... We can't ignore evidence you haven't posted. So feel free to start a thread that is called Hard Evidence Of Rigging and post it.

I'm guessing you won't because unfortunately you're just angry and desperate to find proof where there is none.

And all the usual people debunking your post are the people that know what they are talking about .. whereas sadly you don't.

Now if you can prove statistical proof of these "near identical scenarios" then I will be very interested because I, like many good people in this industry, want to see bad people and companies rooted out and held to account.

Otherwise you're just angry man with no proof other than gut feeling and some data you think proves something that it almost certainly does not.

As for everything else you mention... Yes of course stuff like that is possible. The stuff GCHQ can do is ridiculous. You should never really assume anything is safe.

BUT just because it CAN be done doesn't mean it IS being done. That really is just taking something way to far in order to try and prove something that isn't true.

I look forward to your proof though .. if you provide it, I will quite happily admit you're right.

 

[snorky510238]

Well as they are hosted in countries where legislation is lax or non-existant, then it's hard. But you're right they should be

Doesn’t it tell us something when casinos choose these countries from which to operate. Obviously they don’t just choose them because the weather is nice.

 

[Jono777]

Would explain the odd laggy spin we get.

It actually not lag, it was a cracking result from the server pool, the "lag" is while the server quickly bins it as you won last time

 

[lockinlove]

I am not sure what the big argument is about.

Players finding out recently that certain providers are letting casinos choose their own rtp without transparency. Playngo and now recently pragmatic. So now its impossible BTG or MG are doing this too? And there are members here going all in with defending software providers? Still? Really?






Oh but they def dont track your computer or IP. Trust me I know this cause ive changed ips, computers and even went to a friends house to see if the games would play any different. That doesnt cancel they can track your casino account but they def dont track your IP etc.

I will say that once you get a good hit on bonanza it turns into money sucking mode. Not the usual keep you average base game, but actually slaughtering you. I remember this happening every single time when I was doing my failed 1m spin challenge. Was one of the biggest reasons I quit it actually.

 

[Deeplay]

I am not sure what the big argument is about.

Players finding out recently that certain providers are letting casinos choose their own rtp without transparency. Playngo and now recently pragmatic. So now its impossible BTG or MG are doing this too? And there are members here going all in with defending software providers? Still? Really?






Oh but they def dont track your computer or IP. Trust me I know this cause ive changed ips, computers and even went to a friends house to see if the games would play any different. That doesnt cancel they can track your casino account but they def dont track your IP etc.

I will say that once you get a good hit on bonanza it turns into money sucking mode. Not the usual keep you average base game, but actually slaughtering you. I remember this happening every single time when I was doing my failed 1m spin challenge. Was one of the biggest reasons I quit it actually.

Its actually the other way around. Bonanza is extreme variance with a clever maths model that kicks out small wins during the base game, but over all it sucks and sucks then can drop the mother load , then normal play resumes. And so yes it can seem that its taking it back, but its not, its just your getting the usual game.

Reading this thread I shake my head. Casinos over all make money because they have the house edge on all games period. (apart from the AWPs which VWM emtyied a few years back )
so while most are loosing, some will be winning. The software and the casino dont give a rats ass in the end who wins or who looses because they take the % rake over all. Its a really easy concept that some people seem to struggle to grasp. Casinos dont need to cheat they just need lots of players depositing, and the house edge will take care of the rest.

And honestly with some of the comments here, If I really felt the same about online gaming I would never place another bet ... ever. period.

There is nothing to this tin foil maddness - with legit software and gaming - which is one of the most regulated markets in the EU these days. Especially the UK. Too much in my view. But people need to either accept its random or move on to another vice. ProN has been rigged for decades btw ;_) what you see is often what is NOT happening ..................... but hey thats for another day.

 

[lockinlove]

Its actually the other way around. Bonanza is extreme variance with a clever maths model that kicks out small wins during the base game, but over all it sucks and sucks then can drop the mother load , then normal play resumes. And so yes it can seem that its taking it back, but its not, its just your getting the usually game.

Reading this thread I shake my head. Casinos over all make money because they have the house edge on all games period. (apart from the AWPs which VWM emtyied a few years back )
so while most are loosing, some will be winning. The software and the casino dont give a rats ass in the end who wins or who looses because they take the % rake over all. Its a really easy concept that some people seem to struggle to grasp. Casinos dont need to cheat they just need lots of players depositing, and the house edge will take care of the rest.

And honestly with some of the comments here, If I really felt the same about online gaming I would never place another bet ... ever. period.

There is nothing to this tin foil maddness - with legit software and gaming - which is one of the most regulated markets in the EU these days. Especially the UK. Too much in my view. But people need to either accept its random or move on to another vice. ProN has been rigged for decades btw ;_) what you see is often what is NOT happening ..................... but hey thats for another day.

I really do not find bonanza base game to suck money. When i think of those terms, I think of queen of riches and starquest. Bonanza is well known to be a wager slot. Cant tell you how many dozens of bonuses I cleared on bonanza. I dont know any other base game that keeps you playing so long.

The problem is, what is the houses edge? Is 97% rtp? Is it 91% rtp? Sadly we dont know anymore. And 5-7% difference in rtp will change the way a slot plays and pays dramatically.

Also, the problem is too many people thinking ALL casinos operate like videoslots. Transparent/honest. Sadly, that is not the case. Casinos do care enough to rip people off and find a bigger edge any way they can. This is why we see so many casinos implementing questionable or rogue terms, impossible wager, small weekly cashout limits, encourage reversals, banned games, hidden terms in different sections, long stalled cashouts, lower rtp settings etc. And yes these practices take place amongst alot of the accredited casinos here.

I wish it was the case that casinos are fine with their 3% juice. Sadly, its become a talking point that is just not true.

 

[trancemonkey]

Doesn’t it tell us something when casinos choose these countries from which to operate. Obviously they don’t just choose them because the weather is nice.

Although it is... so that's a benefit

 

[nutnut]

Bit my tongue long enough, I was going to reply before he even posted but I thought give him benefit of the doubt but he proved me right being condescending smug know it all who mocks or dismisses people's opinions like he is judge and jury.

We might be full of shit and totally mental In thinking it tracks us. But to me you're just a monkey in the chain the equilevant to tesco's worker stating we dont sell horse meat when infact people who actually truly control this know the full truth.

No need to reply to me do not wish to discuss anything with you. Just maybe learn to talk to others less patronizing.

 

[trancemonkey]

I really do not find bonanza base game to suck money. When i think of those terms, I think of queen of riches and starquest. Bonanza is well known to be a wager slot. Cant tell you how many dozens of bonuses I cleared on bonanza. I dont know any other base game that keeps you playing so long.

The problem is, what is the houses edge? Is 97% rtp? Is it 91% rtp? Sadly we dont know anymore. And 5-7% difference in rtp will change the way a slot plays and pays dramatically.

Also, the problem is too many people thinking ALL casinos operate like videoslots. Transparent/honest. Sadly, that is not the case. Casinos do care enough to rip people off and find a bigger edge any way they can. This is why we see so many casinos implementing questionable or rogue terms, impossible wager, small weekly cashout limits, encourage reversals, banned games, hidden terms in different sections, long stalled cashouts, lower rtp settings etc. And yes these practices take place amongst alot of the accredited casinos here.

I wish it was the case that casinos are fine with their 3% juice. Sadly, its become a talking point that is just not true.

Yes we do know... for all UKGC games it MUST be shown in the help pages or somewhere on the site. I think the MGA have this rule too but I'm not sure.

So if your shouting non-transparency, that's just not true for everywhere. Don't tar everyone with the same brush....

And also it's not up to the games provider what RTP the game is on... it's up to the casino. So if one casino runs a game at 96% and another runs it at 91%, that is not the fault of the games provider. To say it is is ridiculous...

If someone drives a Audi at 90 on the motorway and someone else has the same model Audi and drives at 70, is it Audis fault both drive at different speeds. No. Audi made the car capable of a range of speeds. It's up to the driver what speed they do...

Honestly this forum just seems like it's becoming even more of a breeding ground for misplaced hatred, conspiracies and a total ignorance of facts and even common sense at times...

It's thoroughly depressing... if you want all the people like me to leave and let this become a plethora of "rigged" stories then fine. We will simply stop being honest and disappear... and I guess some people in here will take that as an admittance they were right all along... but those of us that give a shit only have so much patience with people that refuse to listen.

 

[trancemonkey]

Bit my tongue long enough, I was going to reply before he even posted but I thought give him benefit of the doubt but he proved me right being condescending smug know it all who mocks or dismisses people's opinions like he is judge and jury.

We might be full of shit and totally mental In thinking it tracks us. But to me you're just a monkey in the chain the equilevant to tesco's worker stating we dont sell horse meat when infact people who actually truly control this know the full truth.

No need to reply to me do not wish to discuss anything with you. Just maybe learn to talk to others less patronizing.

Funny - I assume that was aimed at me... you call it patronising when I just tell the truth.

So where am I a smug know it all? I'm a know it all because what... because I tell the truth as I see it and don't listen to BS rumours.

EDIT: removed ranty bit... apologies.

You only listen to people that agree with you? That's not a great way to open your mind is it...

Night

 

[nutnut]

Funny - I assume that was aimed at me... you call it patronising when I just tell the truth.

So where am I a smug know it all? I'm a know it all because what... because I tell the truth as I see it and don't listen to BS rumours.

Fine ... have it your way. As per my post I'm done... you don't know me. You have no idea what I know. I'm a monkey in a chain yeah? Well this monkey is done. Enjoy your conspiracies... it was fun while it lasted.

C-ya!

Didnt realise you was touchy. I will give you one reply.

Yes you work with in the industry but like any industry you cant and dont know everything. We have sports with match fixing at highest level which managers even club owners have no clue about yet you expect us to believe because you work on slot coding you know for sure slot rigging doesn't happen ?

Look at all the dodgy shit that happened with poker so I will never believe some wrong doing doesn't go on at some level. Every aspect of life that involves money has corruption and slotting is no exception.

 

[lockinlove]

Yes we do know... for all UKGC games it MUST be shown in the help pages or somewhere on the site. I think the MGA have this rule too but I'm not sure.

So if your shouting non-transparency, that's just not true for everywhere. Don't tar everyone with the same brush....

And also it's not up to the games provider what RTP the game is on... it's up to the casino. So if one casino runs a game at 96% and another runs it at 91%, that is not the fault of the games provider. To say it is is ridiculous...

If someone drives a Audi at 90 on the motorway and someone else has the same model Audi and drives at 70, is it Audis fault both drive at different speeds. No. Audi made the car capable of a range of speeds. It's up to the driver what speed they do...

Honestly this forum just seems like it's becoming even more of a breeding ground for misplaced hatred, conspiracies and a total ignorance of facts and even common sense at times...

It's thoroughly depressing... if you want all the people like me to leave and let this become a plethora of "rigged" stories then fine. We will simply stop being honest and disappear... and I guess some people in here will take that as an admittance they were right all along... but those of us that give a shit only have so much patience with people that refuse to listen.

It must be shown? Its not.

I didnt paint everyone with the same brush. I actually made that clear when I mentioned transparency when using videoslots as an example.

Slot providers give the casinos the choice to choose their rtp.

No. This forum is a forum with various people, with various minds with various opinions with various thoughts from various places. If that is depressing for you Im sorry to hear that. I love it even though I dont agree with alot of people on here about alot of things. I think its great people are always questioning things. The day we stop is the day we become puppets and robots. I dont want anyone to leave but I think you should stop taking it all so personal and when money is involved there will always be questions and accusations.

 

[slotmaster]

I swear trance is my twin! Welcome to what I have been going through the last 2 weeks or so online (Not so much on this forum). NOOOOOO don't leave I need you to tell me when there is another job opening!

 

[trancemonkey]

It must be shown? Its not.

I didnt paint everyone with the same brush. I actually made that clear when I mentioned transparency when using videoslots as an example.

Slot providers give the casinos the choice to choose their rtp.

No. This forum is a forum with various people, with various minds with various opinions with various thoughts from various places. If that is depressing for you Im sorry to hear that. I love it even though I dont agree with alot of people on here about alot of things. I think its great people are always questioning things. The day we stop is the day we become puppets and robots. I dont want anyone to leave but I think you should stop taking it all so personal and when money is involved there will always be questions and accusations.

Show me one game on one casino with a UKGC licence where the RTP is not shown and I'll happily take it up with the UKGC

 

[Sonict]

As lockinlove is in Canada, that will be hard to prove since we would be playing under the MGA license and thus they wouldn't have to show RTP in the helpfiles if they didn't want to. :/

 

[trancemonkey]

... yet you expect us to believe because you work on slot coding you know for sure slot rigging doesn't happen ?

Look at all the dodgy shit that happened with poker so I will never believe some wrong doing doesn't go on at some level. Every aspect of life that involves money has corruption and slotting is no exception.

I don't expect you to believe the opposite without proof, no.

I have coded games and been a producer for 20 years almost now. I know enough to know that I am 99% sure that no company with a UKGC licence rigs games or casinos.

You can believe what you want to believe but to believe something without evidence is ridiculous.

You know the even I, who knows with utmost certainty it's not rigged, still sometimes sits at my computer playing games thinking "God this feels like it's just gone on the take".

And then I go to work and look at the statistical output of my games and guess what... random games can do just that .. randomly.

This fallacy that random games can't go hot and cold and therefore must be rigged...it's at the heart of all the conspiracies

 

[lockinlove]

Show me one game on one casino with a UKGC licence where the RTP is not shown and I'll happily take it up with the UKGC

slotsmillion was one a few weeks ago until the forum members got on them.I havent checked to see if they changed this.. it wasnt showing on slotsmillion or ladylucks for Canada or UK.

Casino Cruise, sloty, vegas hero are others. I know people got on them about it too so maybe its changed now I havent checked or asked lately. But Its not as common as you think and its funny the ones mostly claiming "oops" just so happens to always be on the low setting

 

[The Dude]

Bit my tongue long enough, I was going to reply before he even posted but I thought give him benefit of the doubt but he proved me right being condescending smug know it all who mocks or dismisses people's opinions like he is judge and jury.

We might be full of shit and totally mental In thinking it tracks us. But to me you're just a monkey in the chain the equilevant to tesco's worker stating we dont sell horse meat when infact people who actually truly control this know the full truth.

No need to reply to me do not wish to discuss anything with you. Just maybe learn to talk to others less patronizing.

If you can't exercise some self control and not resort to personal insults, then this forum is not for you. You have no less than three infractions for troll-like behavior over the past year, and now these are going to be escalated to suspensions. 30 days in the dog house for this one.

Treat your fellow forum members with respect as you would expect them to do so with you.

 

[brianmon]

Show me one game on one casino with a UKGC licence where the RTP is not shown and I'll happily take it up with the UKGC

Well I can't find a list of RTPs at Mr Green (the first, and only site I have looked at ... so far). If there is one, it's not obvious or easy to find.

Obviously most RTP figures will be stated in the Helpfile, with the exception of Microgaming who apparently don't have to declare the RTP in the helpfile or paytables or anywhere else that is 'linked' directly to the game.

 

[dunover]

Bit my tongue long enough, I was going to reply before he even posted but I thought give him benefit of the doubt but he proved me right being condescending smug know it all who mocks or dismisses people's opinions like he is judge and jury.

We might be full of shit and totally mental In thinking it tracks us. But to me you're just a monkey in the chain the equilevant to tesco's worker stating we dont sell horse meat when infact people who actually truly control this know the full truth.

No need to reply to me do not wish to discuss anything with you. Just maybe learn to talk to others less patronizing.

Jeeze. There's none so blind as those that don't want to see. I bet you tried to teach your teachers at school, as there sure was nothing they could teach you.

 

[lockinlove]

Well I can't find a list of RTPs at Mr Green (the first, and only site I have looked at ... so far). If there is one, it's not obvious or easy to find.

Obviously most RTP figures will be stated in the Helpfile, with the exception of Microgaming who apparently don't have to declare the RTP in the helpfile or paytables or anywhere else that is 'linked' directly to the game.

I actually found 1 casino in all the casino ive played in a couple weeks ago actually displayed MG rtp. I was quite impressed. I actually think they might be part of casinocruise group but not sure and havent really looked.

 

[nikantw]

slotsmillion was one a few weeks ago until the forum members got on them.I havent checked to see if they changed this.. it wasnt showing on slotsmillion or ladylucks for Canada or UK.

Casino Cruise, sloty, vegas hero are others. I know people got on them about it too so maybe its changed now I havent checked or asked lately. But Its not as common as you think and its funny the ones mostly claiming "oops" just so happens to always be on the low setting

Well I can't find a list of RTPs at Mr Green (the first, and only site I have looked at ... so far). If there is one, it's not obvious or easy to find.

Obviously most RTP figures will be stated in the Helpfile, with the exception of Microgaming who apparently don't have to declare the RTP in the helpfile or paytables or anywhere else that is 'linked' directly to the game.

Just saw MG added RTP on all help files! Wow!!
Did we made them do it?

 

[trancemonkey]

As lockinlove is in Canada, that will be hard to prove since we would be playing under the MGA license and thus they wouldn't have to show RTP in the helpfiles if they didn't want to. :/

You may well be right...

And there are many many jurisdictions where RTP doesn't have to be shown. And therefore it is not.

The rights and wrongs of this can be discussed in another thread...

 

[trancemonkey]

Just saw MG added RTP on all help files! WoW!!
Did we made them do it?

It's about time...!!

 

[pinnit2014]

Looking forward to the 30 days of Bonanza related misery that Nutnut will have pent up and ready to unleash on to Bonanza thread

 

[trancemonkey]

Well I can't find a list of RTPs at Mr Green (the first, and only site I have looked at ... so far). If there is one, it's not obvious or easy to find.

Obviously most RTP figures will be stated in the Helpfile, with the exception of Microgaming who apparently don't have to declare the RTP in the helpfile or paytables or anywhere else that is 'linked' directly to the game.

Well I didn't mean a page with them on for every game... I meant that within each individual game (and it would appear even MG do it now) it should be displayed and I'll get to see one where that is not the case inside UK.

I'm sure there are bound to be some but in think it's the exception not the norm...

 

[trancemonkey]

Looking forward to the 30 days of Bonanza related misery that Nutnut will have pent up and ready to unleash on to Bonanza thread

I'll be avoiding that then

 

[lockinlove]

yep looks like casino cruise guys smartened up and have mg games rtp listed across their brands. Nice to see

 

[nikantw]

It's about time...!!

Play n Go, since you asked, has a habit on not showing the RTP in the info file if the game is at a lower RTP version.
That was the case at many casinos with UK license, but after we found out they changed it..... I think..... but not outside UK.

Last casino I saw doing that had a nice comp here last month.

 

[lockinlove]

One thing I have learned from this thread is do not play burglin bob and MG named a slot after the games rtp

 

[dogshead1]

@trancemonkey I have posted enough evidence statistically over numerous post this year all showing the same drop in RTP and constant claw back of funds by the slot and developers to prove that all it not right. I’m not angry just educated enough to know that for this to be then manipulation is in place. Only feasible explanation would be tracking you gameplay. Which we have all highlighted can be done and is done via achievements etc on slots like the Immortal Romance etc. So o suggest after all I’ve witnessed this year and I’ve posted stats to prove It that things are being taken further. I:E tracking your MAC address cash outs and withdrawals the whole shabbang. Casinos want to make money not lose and same goes for developers and they also get greedy.

Who’s actually complained to customer support at a casino about RTP being so low after large sample sessions only to be told it will even out to its true RTP in the long run? I have but if it’s random it my never or at lest theoretically level out or else it would not be random. They tell you that because they know is all shady!

 

[Gaz237]

Looking forward to the 30 days of Bonanza related misery that Nutnut will have pent up and ready to unleash on to Bonanza thread

I'm guessing NutNut lost big time on Bonanza tonight and TranceMonkey has just been used to vent on.

 

[snorky510238]

No... the server had to be offsite... not offshore.

Please explain the difference and why this was so.

 

[snorky510238]

This is like writing off the medical industry because the guy you met in an alley stole your kidney.

and we all know nothing untoward ever happens within the NHS don’t we.

 

[Gaz237]

and we all know nothing untoward ever happens within the NHS don’t we.

You might as well blame the state of our NHS on BTG.

Is just as bonkers. as some of your posts.

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

@trancemonkey I have posted enough evidence statistically

I guarantee you have not.

 

[trancemonkey]

@trancemonkey I have posted enough evidence statistically over numerous post this year all showing the same drop in RTP and constant claw back of funds by the slot and developers to prove that all it not right. I’m not angry just educated enough to know that for this to be then manipulation is in place. Only feasible explanation would be tracking you gameplay. Which we have all highlighted can be done and is done via achievements etc on slots like the Immortal Romance etc. So o suggest after all I’ve witnessed this year and I’ve posted stats to prove It that things are being taken further. I:E tracking your MAC address cash outs and withdrawals the whole shabbang. Casinos want to make money not lose and same goes for developers and they also get greedy.

Who’s actually complained to customer support at a casino about RTP being so low after large sample sessions only to be told it will even out to its true RTP in the long run? I have but if it’s random it my never or at lest theoretically level out or else it would not be random. They tell you that because they know is all shady!

No... The only feasible explanation is that big wins are rare and most of the time it's running under its target RTP (as do all games) because the big wins account for a proportion of RTP which is rare.

If you have a 96% slot, and 6% of that RTP is in huge base game wins that happen 1 in 50,000 games, and you have 20% in your feature that happens every 500 spins then most of the time you are playing a 70% slot. . and guess what, that means you're going to lose quickly if you're unlucky.

If you get a feature after 500 spins and get the average win of 100x (20% of 500) then you now have a 90% slot. But you'll need to wait another 49,500 games to get that huge big win of 3,000x to make it up to 96%.

So if a huge win of 3,000x happens every 50,000 games, what do you think the chance is of getting two close together?

It CAN happen but it's statistically very unlikely.

Welcome to statistics.

What you have is proof of random. Not proof of rigged.

 

[trancemonkey]

And no, @dogshead1, they tell you it will even out eventually because that's statistics. That comment in and of itself proves you have zero understanding of slot statistics.

What you actually WANT the game to do (and you don't realise this) is not be random, you want it rigged. Because you don't want the losing period after a big win, but big wins are rare so of course you are more likely not to have a other one and the game is likely to "go on the take".

I used to make compensated games and we would go out of our way to make sure the games DIDN'T go on long losing streaks because we didn't want players to be able to too easily work out the game had paid out.

So the idea that you have somehow proved rigged is laughable. You've actually done the exact opposite and yet you don't realise - because you're adamant you're right and no amount of evidence or knowledge will sway you.

So if you want a grown up debate about statistics and why your data proves random I'm happy to talk to you... in here, another thread or PM me.

 

[Harry_BKK]

And no, @dogshead1, they tell you it will even out eventually because that's statistics. That comment in and of itself proves you have zero understanding of slot statistics.

What you actually WANT the game to do (and you don't realise this) is not be random, you want it rigged. Because you don't want the losing period after a big win, but big wins are rare so of course you are more likely not to have a other one and the game is likely to "go on the take".

I used to make compensated games and we would go out of our way to make sure the games DIDN'T go on long losing streaks because we didn't want players to be able to too easily work out the game had paid out.

So the idea that you have somehow proved rigged is laughable. You've actually done the exact opposite and yet you don't realise - because you're adamant you're right and no amount of evidence or knowledge will sway you.

So if you want a grown up debate about statistics and why your data proves random I'm happy to talk to you... in here, another thread or PM me.

With all due respect trancemonkey and with no allegation of wrongdoing, but I just can't fathom (and probably many others) that in the era where even the slightest fart on the internet is tracked the industry that relies most on psychology, statistics and numbers is not tracking anything, just because of regulations. Regulations have loopholes and ways to circumvent without breaking the rules.

I come back to a few observations which support the argument that sequences are tracked in some way:

- teaser spins - how on earth does a premium symbol which appears once in dozens of spins only, manage to appear 8/10 exactly one spin later
- 2-scatter teasers - same as above
- bonus teaser when the balance is about 10x bet - how can you not have tens and tens of spins at least one bonus teaser and then exactly on the last 10 spins of your balance it suddenly drops in. I paid attention on the free battles at VS. And it never fails on the last few spins, especially when the RTP in the 100 spins was rather low
- a medium win on the last few spins - try e.g. Bonanza, Donuts, Thunderstruck II and a few more. Your balance is mercilessly heading towards zero only to give you a medium win on the last 2 - 5 spins. And after that, it is straight down again to zero. Happens on average 9/10

The fact that it does not happen every time but in the absolute majority, strengthens the argument of tracking since it would be too obvious to have it every time. IMO, the last two I mentioned are psychological tricks to let the player think something might happen very soon, just one more deposit needed.

For the above to happen with such regularity, there has to be some sort of tracking, programming, coding...you name it, I am no expert on that, which in some way does not infringe the regulations.

 

[snorky510238]

You might as well blame the state of our NHS on BTG.

Is just as bonkers. as some of your posts.

If you tell me which posts your having trouble understanding I will break them down into more simple terms for you.

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

With all due respect trancemonkey and with no allegation of wrongdoing, but I just can't fathom (and probably many others) that in the era where even the slightest fart on the internet is tracked the industry that relies most on psychology, statistics and numbers is not tracking anything, just because of regulations. Regulations have loopholes and ways to circumvent without breaking the rules.

I come back to a few observations which support the argument that sequences are tracked in some way:

- teaser spins - how on earth does a premium symbol which appears once in dozens of spins only, manage to appear 8/10 exactly one spin later
- 2-scatter teasers - same as above
- bonus teaser when the balance is about 10x bet - how can you not have tens and tens of spins at least one bonus teaser and then exactly on the last 10 spins of your balance it suddenly drops in. I paid attention on the free battles at VS. And it never fails on the last few spins, especially when the RTP in the 100 spins was rather low
- a medium win on the last few spins - try e.g. Bonanza, Donuts, Thunderstruck II and a few more. Your balance is mercilessly heading towards zero only to give you a medium win on the last 2 - 5 spins. And after that, it is straight down again to zero. Happens on average 9/10

The fact that it does not happen every time but in the absolute majority, strengthens the argument of tracking since it would be too obvious to have it every time. IMO, the last two I mentioned are psychological tricks to let the player think something might happen very soon, just one more deposit needed.

For the above to happen with such regularity, there has to be some sort of tracking, programming, coding...you name it, I am no expert on that, which in some way does not infringe the regulations.

This is primarily confirmation bias with the possible exception of things you've described which don't alter payouts.

For example I'm pretty sure quickspin add in extra scatters to emulate near misses since they sometimes appear directly above a real scatter which would be impossible, however that's just a theory.

With regards to the other observations- we've all noticed the same things; just this last week I've had so many "last minute saves" it beggars belief BUT I've been sure of myself before, often thinking "that session couldn't have been over 25% RTP" only to check and it was 60%, or "that third scatter is showing up 8/10 times the spin after a tease" only to start actually tracking it to find that it's distribution is actually pretty normal.

We all fall prey to our minds seeing patterns where there are none but at the end of the day if you're sure these things are rigged it would not be hard to gather irrefutable data on it instead of just the usual "I won a lot on Bonanza and then no feature for 12,500 spins, that's the third time that's happened in 15 minutes!"

 

[dunover]

People should remember the 'law of large numbers' here. You seem to be expecting prolonged streaks of above-RTP play when in fact these are going to be unusual. Yes, on any INDIVIDUAL spin odds of any particular outcome are the same BUT over the longer term the proposition of getting them in a 'clump' are unlikely

Think the simple coin flip - you know it's the same odds each flip, but nevertheless to set out expecting an event of say 10 consecutive heads is over 1000/1. Say you've already had 10 heads and yes, it's 50-50 to get another next flip as an INDIVIDUAL go, but then think that you're now expecting that to occur in your favour which now puts that string of results at over 2000/1 thus at the outset it was even less likely.

Random slots work in pretty much the same way - if you've had a run of beneficial results (which are relatively rare in terms of possible outcomes) then despite the fact each go is still the same odds to continue seeing over-RTP results becomes a far less likely proposition in the longer term.

So say I am flipping 2 coins (one is Bryan's and one is Max's) and betting heads and am getting a good +50% on Bryan's coin, but losing a bit on Max's - using the arguments I've seen here it's like me saying that Max must've 'rigged' his coin because he or the coin knows that I've been doing well on Bryan's therefore he's 'compensated' it so I lose my winnings back. Ludicrous.

Yes, we all notice these things especially as some have said on Bonanza whereby it tends to take back after decent wins or runs and yes! we all get the foilware out (including myself sometimes) when it happens but at the end of the day it's expected behaviour of the games in question.

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

My favourite example to show people how unintuitive probability can be is the old Monty Hall problem:

Suppose you're on a game show, and you're given the choice of three doors: Behind one door is a car; behind the others, goats. You pick a door, say No. 1, and the host, who knows what's behind the doors, opens another door, say No. 3, which has a goat. He then says to you, "Do you want to pick door No. 2?"

Is it to your advantage to switch your choice?

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

The answer is yes, by the way.