Summer break for Max

[The Dude]

Max will be out until next Monday (the 27th), so just a heads up he won't be processing any PABs, posting warnings, reading PMs or emails. If you need anything, you can always contact me

 

[Mousey]

Good for him. Have a great time, Max!

 

[Nifty29]

Have a great vacation Max!

 

[rainmaker]

Have a great vacation Maxy!

Well deserved

 

[butterflyboogie]

Have fun Max-a-Million

 

[rockycatt]

enjoy your vacation max

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Have a good sunny one Max

 

[chayton]

Hope you have a good vacation Max!

 

[incrediblestuff]

Same here Max!

Have a good one, maybe see if you can become a master brewer: perhaps go on adventure in the deep jungle to scout for the "ultimate" bean!

 

[jetset]

Well deserved break, Max - perhaps to somewhere a little cooler than Paris?

 

[P.V.]

Well deserved break, Max - perhaps to somewhere a little cooler than Paris?

I believe Max said he was staying home and taking care of things he hasn't had time to do.

Hope he stays off the net, enjoys the break!

 

[ultra100]

Well deserved
Have a great one!

 

[Seventh777]

Enjoy your well earned break max .

 

[ksech]

Hope you get some well deserved rest from all us crazies! Enjoy your time off, you'll be missed!

Kim

 

[BingoT]

Have a great vacation Max & Enjoy.
~T~

 

[maxd]

... perhaps to somewhere a little cooler than Paris?

Yeah, the 40C weather wasn't exactly what we had in mind. Paris wilts in weather like that (humidity, etc). I remember back on the Canadian Prairies as a kid 40C was a warm day but no biggie. Then again everything was dry as dust and a glass of water would evaporate in an afternoon.

Anyway, I'm back! I don't think I knew how much I needed a break and I really soaked it up. Had a great week, made much-welcome progress on some of my pet projects.

And yes, thanks, I am now well and seriously into the home-roasting of coffee beans, even started supplying some of my friends here in the city with the results of my efforts. It's very difficult to find single-origin, high-grade dark-roasted beans here in Paris -- the coffee geeks here seem to think that anything darker than cinnamon-coloured is for heathens -- so I guess the demand for custom roasts is none too surprising. And I now make coffee about six different ways if you can believe it! In fact a little gift from a friend has been a great recent addition: an Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) . If you don't mind a bit of messing about when it comes to making your caffeinated brew I highly recommend the thing. Between that and a good home-roast it's hands down the best cup of coffee I've ever had.

 

[jetset]

Good to see you back!

On the coffee front, I have to say (as someone who has not progressed beyond the cartridge-fuelled Nespresso machines lol) that I am impressed

 

[P.V.]

Starbucks, where I live just recently added Clover brewing but I can't tell a big difference other than price. It's higher priced for the clover.

Being cheaper for a regular cup of black coffee, that's how I drink it vs. their new clover brewing method I'm sticking with the regular brew for now.

The Clover® brewing system uses innovative Vacuum-Press™ technology to create your cup right in front of you. You watch as a stainless steel filter lowers into the brew chamber. Hot water is added at a precise temperature to brew your coffee for an ideal length of time.

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I'm a coffee lover!

 

[maxd]

Thanks for the replies guys, good to be back.

Call me cynical but it looks to me like "Clover Brewing" is a euphemism for "lay off the baristas". No machine on earth can match a skilled barista because there are too many skill-based variables involved: coffee = origin, freshness, grind, tamped or no, etc. ; water = amount, temperature, pour time, etc. ; brewing = steep time, stir or no stir, pressure (where applicable), degree of extraction, etc. Under ideal conditions a machine may approximate a decent barista but change any one of the variables and the machine is spitting out swill. And trust me, the variables are always changing, and so they should. Anyway the key point is that the machine can't taste which is what good coffee, no matter how you prepare it, is about.

I feel about coffee the way many people feel about wine: it is roughly 95% the art of taste and preparation and 5% the science of making. Not too many serious wine people I know or have met would suggest that wine made in automated machine is the real thing. Same deal with coffee. The origin and preparation of the raw beans is an art and is critical to the end result. Ditto the roasting. Ditto the preparation. And all this requires skill to do and judge. Skills machines don't have or care about, and it shows.

Starbucks may want to entrust all that to a machine but I reckon that's because Starbucks has something to gain by doing so. I don't do Starbucks now and I have my serious doubts that their machine is going to change that. FWIW most people can't produce a proper shot of espresso from a machine either so it's nothing against this particular machine, it's just that the best cup of coffee and/or espresso and fully automated machines are pretty much mutually incompatible. No offence to your Nespresso machine Jetset, I know that it serves its purpose, but ... well, I reckon you know where I'm coming from too.

No thanks, I'll brew my own, or visit a coffee shop where the baristas know their beans.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I now take my Mum each year to Norwich to see what remains of her sibling family. We have stopped at a few service & rest stops selling Starbucks, which my Mum considers to be "dishwater". She prefers the "instant" variety over the grossly overpriced Starbucks experience. I will have to see whether this new "Clover" system can impress her, but I doubt it. In the interests of science, I will treat her from my winnings as she will walk away upon seeing an even more ridiculous price than usual.

I have noticed that the machines always advise users to buy the specific cartridges made for it, so this must be how they attempt to control the variables such that most users can't tell the difference. It would be rather expensive to hire a live in Barista for one's coffee needs

 

[maxd]

It would be rather expensive to hire a live in Barista for one's coffee needs

True, but find a good coffee shop and their creation will cost you a buck or two. Or three, whatever.

Or you could learn to do it yourself. You can brew a seriously good cup of coffee with nothing more than good beans ($5-7 for 250 grams), a $20 hand grinder and a $5 microfilter. And a coffee cup. Or spring $30 for the Aeropress and you're into the gourmet coffee league (still need that grinder though). It's just a matter of whether you can be bothered, the entry costs and skills required are not prohibitive. The results are light-years better than anything you'll ever get at Tarpucks, no matter how much you pay.

 

[vinylweatherman]

True, but find a good coffee shop and their creation will cost you a buck or two. Or three, whatever.

Or you could learn to do it yourself. You can brew a seriously good cup of coffee nothing more than good beans ($5-7 for 250 grams), a $20 hand grinder and a $5 microfilter. And a coffee cup. Or spring $30 for the Aeropress and you're into the gourmet coffee league (still need that grinder though). It's just a matter of whether you can be bothered, the entry costs and skills required are not prohibitive. The results are light-years better than anything you'll ever get at Tarpucks, no matter how much you pay.

How does the Aeropress compare with the more usual cafetierre?

My mum buys ready ground beans and uses a cafetierre, and considers her efforts better by far than Starbucks. I have an in-car kettle, but it takes 15 minutes to boil, almost as long as the wait at Starbucks on a busy day. I presume grinding the beans and using straight away is better than buying ready ground.

 

[maxd]

How does the Aeropress compare with the more usual cafetierre?

If you mean a сafetière à piston -- aka French Press -- then you might find the following worthwhile:

Why AeroPress is not a French Press

The difference between French Press and AeroPress lies in both the filtering and in the time the water is in contact with the water. Using a French Press, the coffee soaks in water for three minutes. This will extract more acidity from the coffee.⁂ Also, the French Press doesn’t use pressure as a brewing method. The AeroPress uses pressure to force the water through a filter after only a short time in contact with the coffee. This extracts more of the oils in the coffee, ensuring lots of taste and aroma, but lower acidity and less bitterness.

When you’re done pressing the water through the AeroPress, the ground coffee is no longer in contact with the finished product. Using a French Press, the filter is merely used to divide the coffee grounds and the coffee. However, they are still in the same container.

So, an AeroPress is more effective than a French Press in extracting only the good taste and not the bitterness and acidity from the coffee.

⁂ And caffeine: the longer coffee grounds are in contact with water the more caffeine is extracted and ends up in the cup. This is one of the reasons why proper espresso is -- believe it or not -- comparatively low in caffeine. It is also why percolated coffee, for example, is outrageously high in caffeine.

This was lifted from an article entitled "AeroPress - Smooth coffee in 30 seconds" (

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).

FWIW I have and have used a French Press for years. It does make good coffee but IMO the Aeropress stuff is noticeably richer and smoother. But then again I do use fresh-ground coffee -- as in I grind it myself minutes before brewing -- without exception. FYI ground Arabica coffee goes stale in 24 hours, so store-bought blends use Robusta beans to compensate since Robusta beans are much higher in caffeine and noticeably lower in the complex oils that give Arabica beans their great taste spectrum.

In other words if you're using pre-ground supermarket coffee then you've already made a boat-load of compromises in terms of the coffee you drink: you can never get a top-grade cup of coffee out of that stuff no matter what you do to it. To refer back to the wine analogy we're talking the difference between a good vintage wine and factory stuff from a gallon box. Drinkable? Your call, but never gourmet quality. I suspect the Aeropress would still make a better brew from supermarket pre-ground but how much better is a guess. I won't be buying supermarket coffee in order to find out.

And in case you are wondering, yes, I am a coffee snob, or at least an amateur coffee gormand. No one buys green beans, sorts them, roasts them himself, waits while they age a day or so, and grinds just enough to brew a single cup of turkish or Aeropress or whatever using only low-mineral spring water would pretend to be anything else. Then again, I get to drink better coffee than most of the leaders of the world so ... snob I am and happy to enjoy the fruits of my labours. The beauty of it is that if you want you can be serious about coffee for small money and a bit of effort. It's actually very easy, if you can be arsed. If not, rock on, enjoy your brew of choice!

 

[vinylweatherman]

If you mean a сafetière à piston -- aka French Press -- then you might find the following worthwhile:


⁂ And caffeine: the longer coffee grounds are in contact with water the more caffeine is extracted and ends up in the cup. This is one of the reasons why proper espresso is -- believe it or not -- comparatively low in caffeine. It is also why percolated coffee, for example, is outrageously high in caffeine.

This was lifted from an article entitled "AeroPress - Smooth coffee in 30 seconds" (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

).

FWIW I have and have used a French Press for years. It does make good coffee but IMO the Aeropress stuff is noticeably richer and smoother. But then again I do use fresh-ground coffee -- as in I grind it myself minutes before brewing -- without exception. FYI ground Arabica coffee goes stale in 24 hours, so store-bought blends use Robusta beans to compensate since Robusta beans are much higher in caffeine and noticeably lower in the complex oils that give Arabica beans their great taste spectrum.

In other words if you're using pre-ground supermarket coffee then you've already made a boat-load of compromises in terms of the coffee you drink: you can never get a top-grade cup of coffee out of that stuff no matter what you do to it. To refer back to the wine analogy we're talking the difference between a good vintage wine and factory stuff from a gallon box. Drinkable? Your call, but never gourmet quality. I suspect the Aeropress would still make a better brew from supermarket pre-ground but how much better is a guess. I won't be buying supermarket coffee in order to find out.

And in case you are wondering, yes, I am a coffee snob, or at least an amateur coffee gormand. No one buys green beans, sorts them, roasts them himself, waits while they age a day or so, and grinds just enough to brew a single cup of turkish or Aeropress or whatever using only low-mineral spring water would pretend to be anything else. Then again, I get to drink better coffee than most of the leaders of the world so ... snob I am and happy to enjoy the fruits of my labours. The beauty of it is that if you want you can be serious about coffee for small money and a bit of effort. It's actually very easy, if you can be arsed. If not, rock on, enjoy your brew of choice!

I will show this to my mum. She has been making far more compromises than she thinks, no wonder she often ends up with a "dud" brew using supermarket ground beans and her "French press". She keeps the ground beans in the freezer, and says this slows down their degredation. Good tip, or Tesco bullshit?


It would seem that getting roast, but not pre-ground, beans and a grinder would give a better start, and an Aeropress a better finish. I can SERIOUSLY impress her next month


PS - It's not like I can't afford an Aeropress and a grinder - see winner screenshots


Where to get it might be the problem here in the UK. I have only ever seen the French Press, and when out, "posh" coffee is still served in one brought to the table. What seems to be wrong with Starbucks is bitterness and acidity. They use a high pressure steam/water mix to brew their coffee pretty fast.

The best Motorway coffee I have tasted (this is, of course, relative, and probably the WORST coffee someone from the continent has ever tasted) came from one of the smaller operators, Roadchef, and only at one site. They got taken over and ruined by one of the bigger ones, and their coffee is now just as bad as everywhere else.

When I am driving, I prefer a decent amount of caffine in my coffee, but acidity is a problem as it can make it taste bad and even upset my stomach. I could always take a pro-plus with a low caffeine quality coffee though.

I am driving my Mum to Norwich this coming Sunday to drop her off, and then coming back home. Two weeks later, I fetch her back. She gave up driving a while ago, and gave me her car. In exchange, I agreed to help her get to places not served by decent public transport links. In this case, she doesn't fancy the struggle to cross London with 2 weeks worth of luggage. If there was a direct train, she would have taken that instead.

 

[Jasminebed]

That Aeropress looks like a nifty pot. Reviews are overwhelmingly positive at Amazon, and it's not pricy.

Do you use the paper filters or did you purchase one of the reusable metal disks? The disks will let more of the oils into the coffee.

I'm no coffee snob, and certainly no fan of starbucks. But freshly ground beans make a world of difference with even a supermarket brand of whole bean coffee and an automatic drip coffee pot.

 

[vinylweatherman]

That Aeropress looks like a nifty pot. Reviews are overwhelmingly positive at Amazon, and it's not pricy.

Do you use the paper filters or did you purchase one of the reusable metal disks? The disks will let more of the oils into the coffee.

I'm no coffee snob, and certainly no fan of starbucks. But freshly ground beans make a world of difference with even a supermarket brand of whole bean coffee and an automatic drip coffee pot.

I had a quick look, and it seems this is one point where it performs less well than the French press. There also seems to be an inverted method, where you hold it upside down in order to get the oils that float to the top the first thing that goes through the filter (it looks fiddly, and potentially very messy).

The metal disks may be the best compromise in this respect, better than one blogger's suggestion to buy FDA grade polyester and cut it into the right shape (hopefully).

It seems opinions are divided, some preferring more oils even though there will be more bitterness and "fines", and others preferring the less bitter and clear coffee from the Aeropress, even though less of the oils make it through.

I bet someone is now looking at combining the best parts of both methods into a new device, maybe the "French Aeropress"

 

[maxd]

Ok, in no particular order:

• storing coffee in the freezer is kind of okay in the short term, definitely bad news over the long stretch. Thing is moisture kills coffee beans and grounds, and moving something in and out of the freezer creates moisture so ... if we're talking a day or two then the damage may be minimal ... but what's the point because (assuming we're talking whole beans) the coffee doesn't die off that quickly anyway (fresh-roasted beans are good for about 10 days before they start to fade badly). If we're talking in and out of the freezer over many days or even weeks then you're just killing your coffee faster and more thoroughly than it would perish if you left it in a sealed container in a dark cupboard. So overall the freezer thing is probably a waste of time, coffee and money. I used to do it with whole beans, I don't do it any more. Your call.
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• Amazon (US, UK, Germany, wherever) is a good source for the Aeropress. Generally good prices too, should be around US$25-35 though prices vary widely.
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• I use the metal filter in the Aeropress because I detest paper filters in general and you can't get organic/bleach-free filters for the Aeropress (yet). There are two metal Aeropress filters available, Standard and Fine. I have both and prefer the Fine, perhaps because it let's me use a finer grind of coffee and shorter steep times. FWIW, I get very little or no bitterness and no fines (sludge) when I use a fine grind (slightly finer than espresso grind if that helps you any).
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• I have no proof but I'd say you get more of the "oils" out of your coffee in the Aeropress than you do a French Press, but not enormously so. I think the key here is that the Aeropress process is under some pressure, the French Press not really so. In truth coffee "oils" are the flavour in coffee and since my Aeropress coffee tastes better than my French Press coffee I'm claiming you get more of the tasty stuff ("oils") with Aeropress than French Press. That said the French Press -- with fresh coffee and good water -- is still a pretty damn good way to make coffee so I'm not poo-pooing it by any means.
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• More on paper VS metal filters: paper absorbs oil; coffee oils = coffee flavour; metal does not absorb oils so I'm guessing I get more of my flavour/oils with the metal filter than the paper. That said, one of the best coffee guys on the planet (Tom at
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  ) has said he doesn't like the metal Aeropress filter and uses the papers. Not sure which metal filter he used, I suspect it was the Standard one since the Fine only recently became available, but I'm guessing.
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• Aeropress inverted or no? I've done it both ways, vaguely prefer the inverted method. It is a little more fiddly but so are the buttons on my pants and I manage them okay so what the hell. In practice it's what you feel better doing and what suits your coffee rituals that counts, the real difference between the two methods is hair-splitting and quibbling over minutia if you ask me. FWIW, Tom at Sweet Maria's doesn't like the look of the inverted method either.
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• Speaking of Tom at Sweet Maria's, he has pictures and a video or two on the Aeropress. Links are on this page:
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  Don't sweat what Tom says about the "old" VS the "new" Aeropresses. Turns out they switched over in 2009 so all the old stock is almost certainly long gone. Ask me if you want to know the full and gory details (I spend a few days researching it and ... anyway, I received mine and everything was fine).
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• Bitterness in coffee comes from over-extraction which is a function of grind, steep time and water temperature. If you use a courser grind you can use longer steep times, finer grind use shorter steep time. I go for finer grinds and shorter steep times because that also yields less caffeine, hence my preference for the Fine filter in the Aeropress. Water temp seems best around 175 F or 85ish C. Hotter will increase the likelihood of over-extraction, cooler will give you under-extraction = weaker coffee and wasted yummy coffee flavour.
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• In general I'd say what most people don't know or don't understand about coffee "oils" would fill volumes. Everyone talks like an expert but most know bugger all, they're just repeating some crap they heard which sounds good to them and is now their new coffee gospel. The bottom line is how it tastes in the cup and feels in your belly. Whatever your coffee source and method of delivery you should experiment and see what's best for you given the gear you use. Everything else is theoretical BS. Coffee geeks, including me, are like any other geek: they'll pontificate until your arms fall off if you let them. Listen for a bit, learn what you think you need, then show them the hand. If you need more later just ask. Trust me, they'll keep talking.
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• I'm pretty adamant about fresh-ground coffee being the only way to go. Great, but what grinder? There are hundreds out there, costing anything from a tenner to ... hundreds, so what to choose? It's easy: if you're making a single cup or shot a few times a day I'd say go for a good hand grinder. The Porlex Mini and the Porlex Tall are superb little pieces of kit and deserve to be given serious consideration. I love them because they'll grind for anything from percolator (course) to turkish (super-fine, like dust), they are sturdy as hell and they're relatively inexpensive. I've had several "quality" hand grinders over the years, including a couple of the famous "box" grinders from Zassenhaus, and ... my Zass is now a spice grinder and I'm happy with that. In my opinion the modern fit-to-purpose coffee grinders like Porlex and (from what I hear) Hario have eclipsed the old traditionals like Zass, etc, particularly in terms of being able to grind super fine -- "turkish" grind -- and produce a more consistent grind. FYI here's the Porlex at Sweet Maria's:
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  . No offence to Tom/SM but here in Europe I found it for about $30 with a little judicious shopping around on the web. However ...
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• If you brew for the family and/or friends then you'll want a grinder that can efficiently handle more volume. As far as hand grinders go I understand that Hario is a good brand though they won't do turkish grind and a few of their models are supposedly duds. That said both the Porlex and Hario are manual grinders so if that turns you off then go for something electric. I've had a few electrics, liked none, junked them all in the end. But then I can afford to grind by hand because it's only me I'm grinding for (my wife hates coffee though she likes the smell, fortunately). As far as top-end electrics go -- and we're talking 100s of US$ here -- I'd say ... read the next item.
  .
• Looking for some kind of coffee gear but have no idea where to start? I'd say check out what Tom@Sweet Maria recommends (again,
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  ). If it's hardware you're looking for go to the Coffee Merch section of the site. I've followed a number of his recommendations on various things and he hasn't steered me wrong yet, I'd trust whatever he has to say on the subject of coffee or coffee gear.
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• There are a number of exceptional coffee-talk forums you can check out if you're into that whole scene. I like coffeegeek.com, toomuchcoffee.com, and coffeeforums.co.uk but doubtless there are others. Google is your friend however mind-numbingly verbose and unfocused it may be.
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• Speaking of web shopping, there are a number of superb coffee suppliers on the web if you don't have access to a good local roaster (or can't be arsed). The US, UK and Australia are particularly well endowed in this regard, as are the Netherlands, Norway and Germany from what I can tell. Don't assume that mail order is a bad way to go, it's often not at all true. Look for a supplier that roasts __when__ you order and ships same-day. Fresh-roasted coffee needs to "breath" for a day or two anyway -- most coffee tastes weird and flat if it hasn't rested for 24-72 hours -- so the shipping time is not wasted time. I've used Peet's in the US, excellent stuff, and if I was still there would order from Sweet Maria's in a heartbeat. In the UK I've had superb roasted beans from coffeebeanshopltd.co.uk; I understand Rave Coffee, Has Beans and others are equally good but watch out for shipping costs because they vary widely and can become insane. Here on the continent I've ordered green beans from ongebrand.nl and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. As to roasters here in Paris there are many fine establishments and I liked their stuff so much -- almost universally under-roasted IMHO -- I started ordering green beans and roasting my own.

 

[Nifty29]

PS - It's not like I can't afford an Aeropress and a grinder -see winner screenshots

Couldn't help yourself could ya?

It would be nice if occasionally you'd not brag about your "wins". It doesn't make it any bigger you know.....otherwise those " enlarge it" spammers would be on to it.

It's interesting to note you're a coffee expert too.....you learn something every day.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Couldn't help yourself could ya?

It would be nice if occasionally you'd not brag about your "wins". It doesn't make it any bigger you know.....otherwise those " enlarge it" spammers would be on to it.

It's interesting to note you're a coffee expert too.....you learn something every day.

I only do it to rattle your cage

You will be overjoyed to know that I have had an about turn in luck recently, and it has started going back the other way. An inability to find the cashout button at a peak or two didn't help either I am having my mouse serviced today to ensure it happens less often. I am using my gambling 4 button Rat as stand in

One doesn't need to be a coffee expert to know that Starbucks are not very good.

 

[colly]

Well deserved break, Max - perhaps to somewhere a little cooler than Paris?

Warmth AND Paris- sounds like heaven to me (and Paris is so classic its always cool!!)
Wherever you are going enjoy it and relax!

 

[Jasminebed]

Gotta plug this family owned business. I lived upstairs from them for 3 years, and they were the first roasting coffee in my town. Although the website says over twenty years, it's now closer to thirty, as I know it preceded my pregnancy, now 28 years ago. My personal favourite is Mr. Cooke's Special Blend. Canadian Shipping only.

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[Nifty29]

Fantastic read Max.

I'm gettin' me one of them thar aeropresses.

Tell me....how do you have your coffee? Milk? Sugar? Alcohol? (My sister makes a great coffee with frangelico liqueur and cream).

I'm always interested in New uses for coffee. I recently discovered the superb taste of chocolate coated coffee beans!

 

[maxd]

....how do you have your coffee?

Black. Always black, though if you've got an Italian place that knows their beans it's hard to beat espresso con panne (that's an espresso shot with a dollop of whipped cream).

 

[vinylweatherman]

Fantastic read Max.

I'm gettin' me one of them thar aeropresses.

Tell me....how do you have your coffee? Milk? Sugar? Alcohol? (My sister makes a great coffee with frangelico liqueur and cream).

I'm always interested in New uses for coffee. I recently discovered the superb taste of chocolate coated coffee beans!

Shove it up your ass?


No, I'm actually being serious

The "coffee enema" is being offered by many "alternative medicine" clinics as a way to detoxify the bowel, and thus the whole body. Taking coffee this way costs even more than taking it via the usual route at a Starbucks.

Traditional medics say at best it does nothing, and at worst it can be dangerous.

 

[maxd]

Nifty, VWM ... WTF? If you want to peck at each other please piss off and do it elsewhere. Jeez! You're ruining a good coffee buzz.

 

[Jasminebed]

Oh, coffee is my "secret ingredient" for pot roast. Just replace the water with regular brewed coffee and you will have rich dark gravy that tastes nothing like coffee at all.

For the best pot roast, place your roast on a rack in a pot, and keep the liquid simmering under the roast, adding more water as needed.

I do mine stovetop, although the oven works fine too.

 

[maxd]

Oh, coffee is my "secret ingredient" for pot roast. Just replace the water with regular brewed coffee and you will have rich dark gravy that tastes nothing like coffee at all.

Wow, never heard that one before! Don't imagine you need a special blend for that, eh? Sadly, as a vegetarian I will never have the opportunity to try such a tantalising creation. Oh the sacrifices we make.

 

[The Dude]

Off to the attic with ye