Some Rival Casinos No Longer Accepting New US Players

[DarkMage]

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As of April 16th, 2011 Rivalpowered.com casinos will not be accepting players from the United States of America. Although no statement has been issued to players a livechat confirmed that new US players are blocked and testing revealed that new players are not able to create an account. All of this seems to be a direct influence by the fact that the Department of Justice has seized 5 online poker domains and now has the online gambling industry in a panic. The 5 poker domains seized are PokerStars, FullTiltPoker, UB.com, Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker.

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[Sloto]

This relates to Rival White Label casinos only.

Ms Sloto

 

[vinylweatherman]

This relates to Rival White Label casinos only.

Ms Sloto

With no official announcement, players are going to assume this means NO Rival casinos are accepting new US players, as this is what is being stated to them when they try to join a white label.

Given that Rival don't take Canadian players, this is going to be bad news for the white labels.

Rival casinos need to make sure that non-US players don't suffer from any fallout, as it would send them the message that the US government have more or less "seized Rival", rather than a few processing companies.

It could be the end for the white labels, as the only Rival casinos still accepting new US players are the independents, and this is where new players are going to go, and many existing players may decide to "jump ship" in favour of these independents, rather than run the risk of continuing to play at casinos that are simply managing their decline.

We may see other casinos running away from the US in the months to come, rather than risk getting caught up in further seizures.

Microgaming may even pull the "level 11" solution for existing players.

This may leave only some RTG and Top Game casinos, not a happy prospect for US players.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Wow this is pretty huge news.

You do have to wonder if Casinos and Sportsbooks will be next and it looks like Rival are taking pre-emptive action.

You do have to wonder if the white labels can survive without US players as I imagine it's the vast majority of their custom.

I hope I'm wrong though as I have a soft spot for Rival and have always liked them.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Is RTG next???

One thing I have picked up on with this case is the allegation that certain companies were making charitable donations to struggling US banks in order to prop them up. If so then this will open up a whole can of worms and it could be the level of corruption has gone up to a high level.

Must admit I have never understood the legailty of the payment processors or the casinos blatently allowing US customers. By that I mean I have never been sure of who is the offending party - the casino, the payment processors or the player? It's totally unclear as to who is in the right and who is in the wrong. That has been the problem all along. The european companies pulled out of the US as they weren't certain about the legality but nothing has ever been proven. As I understood it the 1996 Act made the liability lie with banks and payment processors rather than the casinos themselves.

I wonder if the bigger implication of the seizure of these poker sites is with the payment processors and particularly the banks. If the heat is directed in this area it is going to be extremely difficult for casinos and sportsbooks to function. Which is bad news for RTG.

 

[jetset]

The reported Rival withdrawal is pretty sketchy as far as I can see, and there has so far been no official confirmation.

It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out over the next few days.

Have any Rival affiliates heard anything more concrete on this report?

 

[Dipity]

This will be a stupid question to the majority of you, but how do you know if a Rival Casino is a white label or not? Is there a list somewhere? Or do you just 'know' via some other significant marking within the client software?

 

[DiamondGeezer]

It's not a stupid question no as the structure of Rival is very opaque.

AFAIK I think the relevant casino has to self declare. Most are white labels though and a few are independant.

KasinoKing is a bit of a Rival expert hopefully he can clarify the situation.

 

[Redbush54]

The white labels can be found here https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[lots0]

The reported Rival withdrawal is pretty sketchy as far as I can see, and there has so far been no official confirmation...

I think the post from Sloto is as Official as we are going to get, for a while.

This relates to Rival White Label casinos only.

Rival White lables not takeing US Players.

Rival powered private owned casinos still taking US players.

 

[Redbush54]

It was just confirmed to me by an aff mgr at a white label that at the present time they are no longer accepting new registrations from the US. And an email is being prepared to go out now.

 

[lots0]

I have confirmed that at Sloto (Rival Powered Private Owned) it is business as usual.

 

[KasinoKing]

AFAIK I think the relevant casino has to self declare. Most are white labels though and a few are independant.

KasinoKing is a bit of a Rival expert hopefully he can clarify the situation.

The two SlotoCash casinos, and 3 Box24 ones are definitely independent.
I'm 99% sure Golden Cherry is too - but not quite sure about the 3 Bet Cave group casinos... I will find out.

BTW, I have not had one single e-mail from ANY Rival casino about this USA ban yet, which seems rather odd...

KK

 

[ksech]

Question(s) for anyone/everyone...

If, according to the article I read about the Poker site seizures, the DOJ were going after accounts who had increased international wires for alleged sales of items such as jewelry, music, etc...

Won't some of the casinos who are sending wire transfers in the same way, start to feel threatened and close up shop to US players? And what will it mean to players who have collected casino winnings that have been wired this way? Will the white label Rivals be the leader of closing out US players from their casinos? And will these casinos allow the US player to get funds out before they are locked out of their accounts?

I'm just curious if anyone else has thought of/considered this...

 

[SlotsLover]

yes, potential problem

Yes, I believe this could be a big problem for online casinos and sportsbooks. However, there are so many of them, that I believe (hope) it's very difficult for the DoJ to actually monitor all of them and find out information about all of them. Note in the current indictment, there is a "helper" who actually made deposits to the poker sites and found the fraudelent banks/companies/processors. With the numerous casinos, I believe it will be a bit more difficult for DoJ to bring suit against every one.

As far as RTG is concerned, I don't believe they are directly involved in the money processing which is the main charge in the current indictment. It's a lot more difficult for DoJ to bring suit for "online gaming" as that involves wire act, state rights, discussion of exactly where the gaming is taking place, WTO issues, etc. The current indictment (I read all 80 pgs) does not touch on any of those issues but focuses on the much more easily provable charges of bank fraud etc.

 

[dominique]

I am not so sure it will affect anyone else unless they happen to have used the same processor, which I doubt.

What apparently happened is that this processor (who was making 150,000 a DAY) got greedy and stole millions from these poker rooms.

So they figured they would get even and turned him in when he was in Vegas.

Of course he wanted to avoid going to jail for 30 years and told all he knew about the 3 poker rooms.

Hence the arrests and law suits.

Processor goes free, possibly with millions squirreled away, poker rooms lose the US.

You could make a soap opera from this.

 

[lots0]

Question(s) for anyone/everyone...

If, according to the article I read about the Poker site seizures, the DOJ were going after accounts who had increased international wires for alleged sales of items such as jewelry, music, etc...

The entire Online Poker Financial system was laid out for the feds by a snitch, thats the only reason the DOJ was able to find any of those accounts they are seizing.

The casinos use all kinds of different/separate systems to move money.

The casinos have already been targeted more than once (Neteller leaving the US was about the Casinos, not Poker/ UGIEA was about casinos) So I wouldn't be too worried, at least any more than 'normal'... lol

 

[FreeDomme]

No Dom, the DOJ has been in this business since Staw left Atlanta

I am not so sure it will affect anyone else unless they happen to have used the same processor, which I doubt.

What apparently happened is that this processor (who was making 150,000 a DAY) got greedy and stole millions from these poker rooms.

So they figured they would get even and turned him in when he was in Vegas.

Of course he wanted to avoid going to jail for 30 years and told all he knew about the 3 poker rooms.

Hence the arrests and law suits.

Processor goes free, possibly with millions squirreled away, poker rooms lose the US.

You could make a soap opera from this.

 

[FreeDomme]

No Dom, the DOJ has been in this business since Staw left Atlanta

Time to bring down the Kawnee tribe, because THAT is what is what is really happening.

 

[KasinoKing]

And will these casinos allow the US player to get funds out before they are locked out of their accounts?

Rival white label casinos are NOT locking USA players out of their accounts.
Existing customers can still continue to deposit, play and withdraw as they always have done.
They are just not accepting any NEW players from the US.

However, it would obviously not be wise to leave large amounts of $s in your accounts for long periods of time, just in case; As far as the USA goes, who knows what will happen next?

KK

 

[Brooklyn]

Gotta love the "Land of the unless you are doing something we don't agree with and can't get our money hungry hands on at the moment, we will do whatever it takes to make your online gambling life miserable, Free"

 

[Rhyzz]

I doubt Rival make the kind of money that will be of interest to the FBI. They've gone for the big boys to make a splash, closing down Rival would hardly make a ripple...

 

[ksech]

I doubt Rival make the kind of money that will be of interest to the FBI. They've gone for the big boys to make a splash, closing down Rival would hardly make a ripple...

Hypothetically, if they go for the "little guys" with the intention of putting a scare into the "big guys", do you think the ripple-effect will continue or die out? As far as I can see, the only ones who would be more hurt by US players backing off would be the RTG casinos (since they seem to be the biggest operators open to US players). JMO

 

[Rhyzz]

Hypothetically, if they go for the "little guys" with the intention of putting a scare into the "big guys", do you think the ripple-effect will continue or die out? As far as I can see, the only ones who would be more hurt by US players backing off would be the RTG casinos (since they seem to be the biggest operators open to US players). JMO

I doubt the big boys would be too worried if they went this route because the smaller operators probably don't have the funds to launch a huge legal defence. They're seeking $3billion in fines according to the document posted in the other thread which is fairly significant, easily much more than the net cash of all 4 combined, so they're effectively looking to bankrupt the bigger operators and shut the senior staff down for the foreseable future. The only thing is, most of these guys are based in Costa Rica and Ireland, so how the US intends on bringing them to trial I'm not too sure!

 

[jetset]

One of the DoJ spokespersons revealed that they are working with Interpol in the pursuit of these executives; not sure what the rules of engagement are to get Interpol to assist, especially if there is a jurisdictional debate.

The fact that the charges are centred on bank fraud and deception may be persuasive.

 

[Rhyzz]

One of the DoJ spokespersons revealed that they are working with Interpol in the pursuit of these executives; not sure what the rules of engagement are to get Interpol to assist, especially if there is a jurisdictional debate.

The fact that the charges are centred on bank fraud and deception may be persuasive.

I doubt the Irish government will be too keen to upset a company like FTP, they must be investing millions into tax and employment

 

[vinylweatherman]

The DoJ have quickly gone on public record about this, yet STILL not a peep about EWX, and that was 4 months ago.

I wonder what else has happened that we haven't heard about yet.

Rival may only be stopping new registrations, but this is probably only the start, just as it was when Microgaming stopped accepting new US players, and it turned out to be just the start of a long campaign of attrition that lead to the "grandfathered" players getting less and less at each new move.

Maybe the next step is all existing US players being moved to a single Rival casino designed mainly to manage their decline through "natural wastage" as players left, and were not replaced.

 

[lots0]

I doubt the Irish government will be too keen to upset a company like FTP, they must be investing millions into tax and employment

I also think you Brits also have good reason to be angry. The UGIEA cost the UK a huge amount of money and now I see that poker rooms registered in IoM seems to be a principal target of the DOJ.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I also think you Brits also have good reason to be angry. The UGIEA cost the UK a huge amount of money and now I see that poker rooms registered in IoM seems to be a principal target of the DOJ.

Many Brits are angry that the US got Britain tangled up in their Iraqi adventure, and many believe that this happened because our Labour government were trying too hard to please the Bush administration. The rest of the EU did NOT go in with the original invasion.

It seems the US have some kind of hold over the UK governments, who just don't want to do anything to threaten that "special relationship".

Small countries taking a stand will not make much difference, but if the EU got together and decided to take some "tit for tat" sanctions against the US a difference could be made.

For some reason, the UK is about the ONLY country blocked from viewing YouTube in it's entirety, because we seem to have backed down to the US over copyright issues, yet it seems to be OK for everybody ELSE to view this content, yet the "issues" are the same. This contrasts with the fight Antigua put up; they threatened to retaliate by refusing to enforce US copyright laws against websites set up under Antiguan jurisdiction, which would have meant that the likes of "Pirate bay" could move their servers to Antigua, and become more or less "untouchable".
It's a shame that Antigua had their bluff called by the US, and to my knowledge the threat has not become fact.

The DoJ are really throwing their weight around, so we can only hope they break something they shouldn't have, and find themselves in an international legal mess.

The US have STILL not managed to shut down all this "illegal file sharing", so what makes them think they will ever manage to shut down ALL the "illegal internet gambling" they are going after.

What about ad-supported casinos?

Rather than deposit and withdraw money, US players earn "loyalty points" for viewing content such as adverts, doing surveys, etc. These points are then used as "casino credits", and when the player decides to "withdraw", they are paid in goods or shopping vouchers, thus no actual UIGEA-outlawed transactions take place.

These points could also be earned on purchases over the internet, not the fake ones currently used, but for real goods and services, where these "casino loyalty points" are awarded in the same way that Airmiles can be collected.

Lastly, it can be made possible for peer to peer exchange of these points for goods, services, or even money.

This would not help the high rollers, but many of the low rolling players could get along with this model.

 

[lots0]

Sorry VWM,
Seems I hit sore spot.

I wasn't thinking about all the other political stuff, only online gambling. But I see your point. A lot of us in the States did not want to be involved in that Iraqi 'adventure' either ('adventure' is not the word I would have chosen).

 

[all4greed]

The DoJ have quickly gone on public record about this, yet STILL not a peep about EWX, and that was 4 months ago.

It's 5 months - November 15. Yes I'm counting since it affects me.

 

[Rhyzz]

Didn't the South American countries go to the WTO to contest the ban on gambling by the states? I thought it was still pending but I do remember Antigua threatening to open up the black market trade, like cigarettes and pirated goods like VWM said, the US would be powerless to stop that through fairtrade laws.

It's just a joke, I have a number of acquaintances in the US desperate to play but I don't trust anyone to handle their money, so I encourage them to go to Vegas instead. If only 3Dice had an affiliate program worthy of the effort...

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry VWM,
Seems I hit sore spot.

I wasn't thinking about all the other political stuff, only online gambling. But I see your point. A lot of us in the States did not want to be involved in that Iraqi 'adventure' either ('adventure' is not the word I would have chosen).

It's not all political. The WTO free trade agreement is a joke, since the US treat Britain as "second class" when it comes to viewing such things as pop videos on YouTube. We are blocked, but most other places in the world can view them. YouTube is effectively being censored by big US interests, even though these media are free to view elsewhere, so don't really make money other than through the adverts.

It should be up to the UK government whether sites such as YouTube are censored for us, not the government of the USA.

Even the NEWS is blocked, something that becomes obvious when I can't view some of the links posted by other CM members about interesting items of world news.

Despite this, the US government is DEMANDING that the UK government snoop on our internet use, and fine us for viewing this content by other means that still work.

This is "big business intererests" controlling legislation passed by the US government, and is simply another example of the protectionism that lies behind the onslaught against UK companies that provide a LEGAL service in the jurisdictions they operate from.


"free trade" has to work BOTH ways, but currently it seems the US is "cherry picking" the parts of the WTO agreement that suits them, and complaining when WE don't play ball by allowing free & full access to US businesses in the EU market, even though some of what they sell online is legal in the US, but NOT here in the UK.

Protectionism in the US will cost UK players money, since the operators will make less profit, and thus be unable to carry on giving us decent offers.

I bet when the US brings in regulation for their home grown online operators, they will demand access to the EU markets under these same WTO rules they themselves don't see fit to follow.