Slots wagering on table games bonus

[slafs]

I took a bonus at one of the more reputable casinos around and instinctively started playing slots. After a good hit early on I checked how my wagering was doing only to find out that it hadn't gone down at all. Upon further investigation it turned out that it was a table games only bonus with games such as Baccarat, Blackjack and 3CP allowed.

Naturally, I cleared the wagering requrements playing these games and requested a cashout, but just as naturally, my cashout was denied and bonus, winnings and even my deposit was confiscated. Sure, I had broken the T&Cs, but I was nevertheless playing slots when I could have been playing Blackjack, and it didn't even count towards my wagering!

Looking at my history I could see that I had taken similar bonuses at least three times before only to lose it all playing the same slots. No one had any objections to the way I was playing then.. I guess my main felony was winning instead of their preferred losing. (And not reading the full T&Cs before starting to play )

SO.. I was just wondering what the general consensus is when situations like this occur. Is it OK to play slots when you should have been playing Blackjack? And should a reputable casino confiscate "the lot" when you do? I am wondering if it's worth making a fuss about.

 

[silcnlayc]

Is it OK to play slots when you should have been playing Blackjack?

No

And should a reputable casino confiscate "the lot" when you do

Yes

I am wondering if it's worth making a fuss about.

No

Sorry....

 

[Tengil]

Well you should demand your deposit back ASAP.

My opinion on the issue in general depends on what the exact T&Cs were.

 

[slafs]

OK, thanks for your replies. Would it have been different if I played through the required wagering first and then played slots? Was unsure of what to think of it, so glad that you at least are clear about your answers! Guess I'll just have to wake up and start reading T&Cs instead of assuming that slots is always on the list.

I think I'll ask for my deposit to be returned, as the terms just states: "Any play on an excluded game will result in the bonus and all winnings being rendered null and void."

 

[deucebag]

At the very least they should return all your deposits that were played on these bonuses, including those that were lost.

 

[slafs]

At the very least they should return all your deposits that were played on these bonuses, including those that were lost.

That was my initial thought, but looking at their terms it looks like playing slots is only a "felony" if you win while playing them. Loosing money is always OK! I popped them an email asking about my deposit, I'll give you an update on the result.

 

[Simmo!]

Strictly speaking the rules is the rules. But I know a number of casinos that would refund the deposit as a goodwill gesture as no one in their right mind would deliberately try to take advantage of a table games bonus playing slots with a Blackjack WR

 

[Pinababy69]

I'm pretty much in agreement with everyone else here. While I don't believe the casino is "obligated" to return your deposit...I think the really good ones should at least consider the request. Give you another go at it, so to speak. I would hope you do get it back, for a second chance.

And in the future, read the T&C's carefully. If a bonus is slots only, then play only slots, even after WR are complete. If it is table games...ditto. Do not give any casino an excuse to confiscate your funds.

 

[Tengil]

IMO the deposit must be refunded. There shouldnt even be any discussion about it.

The only groups which tend to confiscate your deposit is Cassava and sometimes William Hill.

 

[SlotMonster]

I agree with the statement that the OP should request their deposit to be sent back to e-wallet. Yes, it was player's fault for violating T&C but the initial deposit must be returned.

 

[elscrabinda]

Its ridiculous that any casino would disallow slots on a table games bonus, and any player who chooses slots over blackjack is one they should value and not enforce their illogical rules on.

Email the rep here and the manager. Between them, one may have some sense.

 

[cheetahwind]

See here to me this is where it gets sticky with casinos.
I will agree yes it was a blackjack and I'm assuming a table games bonus.
Yet...
To me if your playing a blackjack bonus with oh say a 40X WR and you decide to switch to slots. I'm still not getting how this could be a bad thing. Considering that pretty much your taking the worse of the two games and actually attempting to make some headway.
Now I've always understood why you can't take a slots bonus then play table games. Just be the WR are always lower just because your odds aren't as good. Yet it always baffles me when a casino gets all greedy and says. Even though the WRs are higher and it was a blackjack bonus. We can't pay you just because the bonus wasn't meant for slots.

 

[KasinoKing]

Yep, agree with most people above - they should definitely return your deposit.

No casino should have the right to keep your deposit if you play the wrong games - and especially not an accredited one!

I hope that you will "name and shame" this casino, because it's just not on.

KK

 

[slafs]

Thanks for the support all!

Got an answer yesterday on my email, they are still not budging:

Our Terms are very clear. When you redeem a bonus, it is your responsibility to ensure you are aware of the attached Terms. You deposited and redeemed a bonus and both were used to play and collect winnings. When the Terms were broken, your deposit and bonus and the winnings you compiled from them, are considered null and void.

Strangely enough, the deposit part is nowhere to be seen in the terms they quoted before.. Guess it would be nice if I didn't notice.

Only bets on the listed Bonus Games will count towards the wagering requirement, all other games are excluded until the playthrough requirement has been met. Any play on an excluded game will result in the bonus and all winnings being rendered null and void.

I have pretty much given up their "normal" support. Gonna alert their forum rep about this thread to see if it makes a difference.

 

[all4greed]

Doesn't make any sense to me why they would keep your deposit. Besides the transaction fees, they shouldn't be out anything...

 

[heador112]

Name and shame the Casino

 

[kakata]

.....dear casino...... whoever you are.
would you have sent him an e-mail if had lost ?
why dont they just disallow games that are not allowed in the bonus?
A simple pop up message when a forbidden game is attempted....
we will probably never know

 

[slafs]

Sorry for being a bit unresponsive the last days, it just reflects the response I've been getting from the casino - none!

No reply on my last email to support asking about a term justifying confiscation of my deposit.
No response from their forum rep, even though she has been online since I PM'ed her.
In fact, only reaction I got was a two day waiting period instead of the usual 24h when withdrawing my remaining balance there. (Not complaining about their withdrawal times though, just noticed the extra day)

So I guess it's time to "name and shame" them for those of you who are wondering - It's the glorious Lock Casino :machinegu

Needless to say, they won't get much action from this player from now on. I guess I'm stuck back at iNetBet.

 

[same_old]

.....dear casino...... whoever you are.
would you have sent him an e-mail if had lost ?
why dont they just disallow games that are not allowed in the bonus?
A simple pop up message when a forbidden game is attempted....
we will probably never know

That will never happen unfortuantelly KAK,

this option works so much in the casino's favour.

I Mean, we all know that a lot of peopple DO play restricted games and most of them will lose and not think anythin of it so the casino wins that money..
On the other hand the client DOES win on the bonus and has played restricted games and requests a cashout the casino will deny it on the grounds of " restricted games"

This is a coplete win-win for a casino and I will assure you wont change anytime soon.

 

[maxd]

There is a lot about this story the OP isn't saying here that is completely relevant to the decision taken by Lock. I've asked them for an update and will report back soon.

If this pans out the way I'm anticipating it will the OP will be proven guilty of gross distortion and manipulation of this situation. Speak bullshit, expect pain.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

I've done this...I only play slots and one time I took a mystery coupon bonus at INET. I was doing pretty good..up to $500 and just checked my playthrough. It hadn't budged. I emailed support, and this time, very promptly, emailed me back stating I had taken a "scratch card" bonus. They removed everything but my deposit, gave me the right coupon and I started over.

It's pretty simple...you screw up you start over.

 

[slafs]

There is a lot about this story the OP isn't saying here that is completely relevant to the decision taken by Lock. I've asked them for an update and will report back soon.

If this pans out the way I'm anticipating it will the OP will be proven guilty of gross distortion and manipulation of this situation. Speak bullshit, expect pain.

I think you are way out of line with your comment here! As an authority on this forum you should be really careful with these kinds of accusations.

If you are talking about a different issue I had with Lock earlier then it is exactly what it is - a different issue. It was sorted out pretty much simultaniously as this, new, situation appeared.

I have presented a situation many players come across, asked for others opinions and gave an update on how it turned out for me. This is actually the full story from redeeming the coupon, depositing and making my first wagers on the dreaded slots.

I didn't even name the casino until I was sure not to get any replies from neither their support nor their forum rep. Where did I go wrong? Feel free to tell people the real story since I am, as you claim, bullshiting.

 

[maxd]

I think you are way out of line with your comment here! As an authority on this forum you should be really careful with these kinds of accusations.

Think what you like: when someone redeems a given coupon 48 times they know very well what they are doing. When that someone repeatedly ignores the casino's attempts to set them right and then threatens to go to the forums when the casino finally decides they've had enough they also know what they are doing. None of this was even hinted at in your description of events here.

If I understand correctly you are further claiming that there are "different issues" here. I say these events are directly connected so we're not talking about a "different issue" at all, it's one issue prolonged over a series of events. I don't see any separation and neither does the casino. You can call it what you like but I call what you've done here manipulation and distortion, hence I believe my 'accusations' are quite appropriate and yes, said with great care.

I didn't even name the casino until I was sure not to get any replies from neither their support nor their forum rep.

(1) I seriously doubt that and (2) you've heard from the casino repeatedly and in detail. I believe you used the "reputable casino" ruse as a means to get this out on the boards and encourage debate on it before you dropped the casino name for maximum effect: this is more manipulation. And you are completely misrepresenting the fact that the casino had been in frequent and repeated contact with you regarding this issue: more distortions.

I've got a bunch of material to go through in deeper detail before making a final decision but the consequences of your actions here are forthcoming.

 

[all4greed]

Think what you like: when someone redeems a given coupon 48 times they know very well what they are doing.

Wow. Must be a record for a RTG casino considering most void out after 1 use...

 

[maxd]

Must be a record for a RTG casino considering most void out after 1 use...

Great, let's give the OP the "Most Abused Bonus" award while we're at it.

 

[slafs]

Think what you like: when someone redeems a given coupon 48 times they know very well what they are doing.

Sure, and so was the casino. The redeemals you are referring to was their "We don't want you once, we want you for life" original LOCKNLOAD bonus. As far as I remember, there was no cap on the number of times it could be redeemed. In fact, I actually lost quite a bit while taking them as well. I got the bonuses I wanted - the casino got a losing player.

The previous issue was related to that. I'm not sure how much I can/should divulge about this issue as it was sorted out "in private" with their forum rep.

However:This topic is about their BOND bonus(es).

When that someone repeatedly ignores the casino's attempts to set them right and then threatens to go to the forums when the casino finally decides they've had enough they also know what they are doing. None of this was even hinted at in your description of events here.

I never ignored anything coming from the casino, in fact I have replied to every email and PM I have gotten, responding to everything they presented me. They are the one ignoring me, not the opposite.

Also: I have never threatened to "go to the forums". That is a blatant lie! The only time I even mentioned the forums was when I informed their rep about this thread.

If I understand correctly you are further claiming that there are "different issues" here. I say these events are directly connected so we're not talking about a "different issue" at all, it's one issue prolonged over a series of events. I don't see any separation and neither does the casino. You can call it what you like but I call what you've done here manipulation and distortion, hence I believe my 'accusations' are quite appropriate and yes, said with great care.

Well, I still belive they are separate issues. The bonus code differs, the reason for confiscation differs and one of them has been resolved! Also, I must have made at least 10 deposits without any trouble in between the two. Their email support are treating them as different issues as well, in fact you are the only one telling me they are related.

(1) I seriously doubt that and (2) you've heard from the casino repeatedly and in detail. I believe you used the "reputable casino" ruse as a means to get this out on the boards and encourage debate on it before you dropped the casino name for maximum effect: this is more manipulation. And you are completely misrepresenting the fact that the casino had been in frequent and repeated contact with you regarding this issue: more distortions.

Once again, I have been in contact with the casino several times but never got an answer to why they confiscated my deposit in addition to my winnings, except from the slightly modified T&C from their email support. They have stopped answering my emails abourt it and the rep didn't respond when I pointed out the thread. I waited 3 days for any sort of acknowledgement before by requests in the thread posting the casino name. It's all in the thread, nothing is left out.

I've got a bunch of material to go through in deeper detail before making a final decision but the consequences of your actions here are forthcoming.

I'll accept you apology later.

Wow. Must be a record for a RTG casino considering most void out after 1 use...

Not really, CW and its like offer unlimited bonuses all the time. It is fairly easy for an RTG casino to set the number of times a coupon can be redeemed, as well as if they want a series of coupons to be redeemed in sequence etc. The original LOCKNLOAD coupon didn't have those limits.

 

[maxd]

As indicated earlier the facts of this situation are considerable more complicated than the OP let on when they posted this thread.

In the first place the OP had a considerable history with the casino, including having taken the original LOCKNLOAD bonus four dozen (48) times. The casino management had always intended to let players reuse the bonus a few times but the OP wouldn't stop: whereas the casino cap was set at $2800 the OP pushed it until he had received $5200. At this point the casino told the OP that enough was enough and they would deny the player further attempts to take the bonus. All accounts were settled at this time. At this point the OP took a break and stopped playing at the casino.

Some time later the OP returned to the casino and "instinctively typed in" (his words) the LOCKNLOAD code without reading the Terms and started to play again. As it happened the bonus Terms had changed during his absence and he was now in violation of several clauses in the new bonus Terms including eligibility for the bonus (new players only) not to mention the fact that the casino had already made it clear that he was no longer welcome to use this bonus.

As it happened the OP won but the winnings were confiscated per the casino's previous "enough is enough" ruling. The OP complained, saying that if their actions were in violation of the Terms then the casino software should not have allowed him to take the bonus. He said the bonus had been redesigned as "a trap for me to walk into" and that the casino had deliberately done this to take his money. During their discussions he made at least two separate threats to take the issue to Casinomeister but said they would prefer to "continue to do business together". In the end they reached an agreement and the winnings were paid.

The player then moved on to another bonus and promptly violated it's Terms. The casino confiscated his winnings and his deposit per the Terms. He again complained that the software shouldn't have allowed him to do things prohibited by the Terms and again threatened to use Casinomeister against them. This is when he started the current thread. A few days later he returned to Support, directed them to this thread and invited them to settle with him again. The casino stood firm in it's decision against the player.

I believe the player has acted in bad faith throughout this process. They clearly abused the original bonus until that was no longer an option and then moved on to something else.

Although the casino has (IMHO) been overly generous to the player and thereby encouraged his abusive and manipulative behavour that doesn't excuse the fact that throughout this the OP has repeatedly violated the casino's Terms and repeatedly tried to use his Casinomeister membership as a weapon against the casino. I believe he willfully misrepresented his case here in this thread in order to press that effort. We are not here to be abused in this way or used as part of a player's extortion attempts against a casino.

The player's account has been suspended for 30 days. If the player returns and repeats this type of activity the next ban will be permanent.

I expect readers will ask "why didn't the casino simply block the player from receiving further instances of the bonus?" or other questions of that sort. Apparently that was not an option available to the casino at that time. In any case the casino made it clear to the player what they expected him to do and he ignored it precipitating the sequence of events described above.

I'll accept you apology later.

Dream on.

 

[Shyguy]

Brilliantly handled Max - very professional!

 

[heador112]

Finally the know the full story

 

[Scooter7]

Very nice-take the bonus over and over again, dump it all on one or two roulette numbers-eventually hit a big win and grind out the WR.
Not original and definitely not in the 'spirit' of the bonus.
More often than not, payment issues are the fault of the casino and I always lament the fact that there isn't enough protection for honest players. In this case, it really shows you just how equally and brutally dishonest/disreputable players can be. I'm sure this is at least part of the reason why the number of decent bonus incentives for real players are rapidly dwindling.

Thanks for the additional details, Max.

 

[all4greed]

Looking at my history I could see that I had taken similar bonuses at least three times before only to lose it all playing the same slots.

At least 3 times equals 48? Guess there was more to the story...

 

[maxd]

At least 3 times equals 48?...

Yes, that being one of several items of "creative interpretation" of the actual events.

 

[Nifty29]

You know, ya can smell 'em a mile away sometimes....and this one was putrid from the get go.

Nice work Max.

 

[Tengil]

At least 3 times equals 48? Guess there was more to the story...

He obviously meant the "BOND" coupon.

They indeed had a term which allows them to confiscate ("steal") the deposit which is at least enough for me to stay away.

The casino was overly "generous" because they tought the player would keep losing.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Confiscation of a DEPOSIT should NEVER be allowed. The "removal of winnings" due to term violations is merely "voiding the wager(s)". Where wagers are void, the casino HAS NOT WON the wager, it has been cancelled, therefore the deposit must be returned.

I have trouble believing the casino, an RTG one, was unable to block specific players from taking the coupon; after all, Club World, SAME SOFTWARE have made coupons account specific. I know this FOR A FACT, being one of the "bonus banned" there.

Although the casino contacted the player with regard to this numerous times, this is NOT proof the player received these, because spam filters are increasingly trapping VALID communications from casinos to their players. This is the fault of the INDUSTRY, because of their past lack of control of spam, the ISPs and filter programs are now doing it for them, but bluntly.

I find MOST of my inbound communications from casinos rejected as spam, even though they are perfectly valid. IF my ISP did NOT offer me the option to switch off the supplied filter (as is the case with the likes of Yahoo and Gmail), I would NOT receive my offers.
Even WITH the filter switched off, I am STILL not receiving emails that casinos claim they have sent me.

In this case, why has this player ONLY been banned for a mere 30 days, why not for LIFE, given that his intent is now clear, regardless of whether he received the communications from the casino or not. After 30 days, surely he would AGAIN look for a similar "loophole" in another code, and push it to the limit again.