Slots Magic - help please

[tinaj]

I permanently self excluded from Slots Magic, stating due to a gambling problem.
I have suffered severely with depression this year and last night borrowed and blew £3k in a fit of madness at this site.

I have previously asked them to permanently self exclude me as I have problems with gambling and currently can't control my spending.
I know the responsibility lies with me - is there any hope at all of them returning any of my money based on the fact that they reversed a permanent exclusion due to a gambling problem? I had previously asked them never to reopen it again. I kept getting emails and then was tempted to contact them to reopen it, which I did and then lost a ton of money that leave me and my young family in a complete mess due to my stupidity and gambling addiction.
Please help.

 

[Tirilej]

They have a rep here you can contact https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/36004/

Up to the left you have the option to send him a private message.
Tell him what he needs to know to be able to investigate.

I hope he can help or give you an answer or you come back and tell us. You certainly seems to need help.

I sent the rep a link to this thread also so he is aware that you have started one.

 

[sigothx1]

I permanently self excluded from Slots Magic, stating due to a gambling problem.
I have suffered severely with depression this year and last night borrowed and blew £3k in a fit of madness at this site.

I have previously asked them to permanently self exclude me as I have problems with gambling and currently can't control my spending.
I know the responsibility lies with me - is there any hope at all of them returning any of my money based on the fact that they reversed a permanent exclusion due to a gambling problem? I had previously asked them never to reopen it again. I kept getting emails and then was tempted to contact them to reopen it, which I did and then lost a ton of money that leave me and my young family in a complete mess due to my stupidity and gambling addiction.
Please help.

If you won £10,000 on that deposit would you have posted the thread but instead asked slots magic to keep it? There seems to be a noticeable rise in this type of thread lately maybe that's just me noticing it, in terms of your question if you can prove you asked for a permanent exclusion, and prove they agreed to it you might get your deposits back, but if you did not specify the length of your exclusion, or you simply cannot prove it i doubt you'll get anything back.

And if you have a gambling problem i personally think getting 0 back would help more than getting back money you knew you couldnt afford, maybe this is the kick you need to wake up and realize you have a problem.

 

[EGO]

Hi

Can you please PM me your username and I will have a look into this for you

Krystal

I permanently self excluded from Slots Magic, stating due to a gambling problem.
I have suffered severely with depression this year and last night borrowed and blew £3k in a fit of madness at this site.

I have previously asked them to permanently self exclude me as I have problems with gambling and currently can't control my spending.
I know the responsibility lies with me - is there any hope at all of them returning any of my money based on the fact that they reversed a permanent exclusion due to a gambling problem? I had previously asked them never to reopen it again. I kept getting emails and then was tempted to contact them to reopen it, which I did and then lost a ton of money that leave me and my young family in a complete mess due to my stupidity and gambling addiction.
Please help.

 

[spintee]

I agree there seems to be a trend of problem gamblers trying to get there cash back,

If you can prove that you permanent excluded due to said reason than I say they have to refund you,

But here is the problem, If you had won would they have found the exclusion than? Just refund your depo back? Who know's, If you have a problem than do something about it, If it was not slotmagic it would of been another casino you of squander it on

Here you go, https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/community/183/

It must be hard if you rattled 3k away but if you do not help your self out than no one is going to do it for you, I wish you the best

 

[homerbert]

selfexlcude youself saying you have gambling problems
wait a bit
ask to reopen account
if it is your lucky day and account reopened deposit a lot of money
if it is not your lucky day and you lost - create thread on CM how pity this situation
good operator caring about reputation will refund you
...
PROFIT!

 

[onkel]

selfexlcude youself saying you have gambling problems
wait a bit
ask to reopen account
if it is your lucky day and account reopened deposit a lot of money
if it is not your lucky day and you lost - create thread on CM how pity this situation
good operator caring about reputation will refund you
...
PROFIT!

A good operator should under no circumstances re-open the account. Most people without a gambling problem don't realise how severe it can be.

However, it's just as bad trying to play the gambling problem card as it is for an operator not to by abide by the set responsible gambling policies.

 

[homerbert]

A good operator should under no circumstances re-open the account. Most people without a gambling problem don't realise how severe it can be.

However, it's just as bad trying to play the gambling problem card as it is for an operator not to by abide by the set responsible gambling policies.

do not ruin my dream about becoming rich!!!

 

[thebigs]

Please try and contact Gamcare or some other authorities that may help you and therefore your family.
As for trying to get your money back,you really need to take it on the chin and decide that this was the day your life changed for the better.
An alcoholic would not get a refund,a drug addict would not get a refund so please do not expect one.
You obviously have a serious problem and you have to face up to it.
I am sorry for you and your family and maybe the best thing you can do to help is sell all your computers or phones that have access to the internet so temptation is not there.

 

[Mousey]

Ummm... if you know you're self excluded, why go back to that casino at all? Sign up at a new one. Oh. Wait. Then you couldn't cry wolf (I'm self excluded!) and get funds back if you lose.

I've been here a long, long, time and we've seen this a million times.

I do hope the rep can help in some way. And I also hope you get help and stop this self destructive gambling.

 

[spintee]

This is the sort of times I do feel for the casino, But if they had played there card's right than the player or casino would not be in this situation, We do not no the full story as yet,

But theses players have got a problem than they most of known about the self excluded them self, There only shooting them self in the foot at the end of the day because if they did win than they will not get none of the winnings & If they lose and try claiming money back than they bet better be 100% sure they have proof as they get nothing back,

Its a shame really as this is what makes all the genuine players lose alot of stuff such as bonus and specials,

I do wish we get an update on this thread.

 

[asadzareef89]

I sympathize with your problem but I don't think u should get a penny back as it would just encourage you to do the same thing again, take the bullet on this one and u will think twice about self excluding at another casino just to play there a month later to cry wolf i case u lose?

Would u just have asked for your deposits back if u had won 20000 or something like that?? would u have said in this thread '' sorry i won a huge amount, plz keep it n give my deposits back as i was self excluded''?

Why don't people get it, u should just gamble the money u can afford so u dont have to cry self exclusion every time

 

[thebigs]

I think once you self exclude and its stated due to a gambling problem then i do not believe a casino or casino group should allow you to open an account again.
I appreciate there were problems with the every matrix situation but they are doing the correct thing.
I am a gambler and have been for 37 years and at one time in my life Horse racing took over my life but thankfully i saw the light and i very very rarely gamble on anything except slots now.
I play low stakes and if i lose i do not lose too much except the odd time where nothing is going my way and if i win 50,100 or on occasion more then i am happy.
If the Casino has been wrong here then they should have a slap on the wrist but i do believe they should have to pay back any of the money no matter how cruel that may seem.

 

[onkel]

While I'm not convinced that the player should get their deposits back in instances like these, the casino should also suffer some repercussions for allowing them to play in the first place. Perhaps force the casino to give the player's deposits to a responsible gambling entity or charity?

 

[Googobucs]

If the Op can show he self excluded he should get his money back. I am so sick and tired of these types of threads. If the player wins they confiscate his winnings (Everymatrix) because he self excluded. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Dinahnana]

The player was self excluded from this casino and Slot's Magic should never have re-opened his account. The player did have his account re-opened knowing why he was self excluded in the first place. He should not get his money back. I am not pointing fingers at the OP but I will draw attention to a section of Evil Players awards 2013 from the Meister Awards

The first group of people, not necessarily connected, were running a self-exclusion scam towards the end of the year. The idea is that they'd exclude themselves at a casino then slip back in a short while later and play. If they lost they'd holler for compensation. Or, they'd exclude at one casino in a group and if they could sign up at another casino in the same group they'd repeat the play/complain scam. We had a half-dozen or more of these come through in the September/October timeframe

Every time I see a thread on self exclusion issues I am reminded of the above. Again I am not saying the OP falls into that category. I also think that Slots Magic needs to explain why they re-opened an account for a player who permanently self-excluded due to gambling reasons.

My conclusion is that op doesn't get his money back and Slots Magic should be penalized (unless there is more to this story we are not getting).

 

[spintee]

We do not know the truth as of yet but due to U.K regs than they can be more than penalized & even get there licence revoked, They signed up to the rules when taking up the new U.K regs, Just the same as if we break rules we get no winnings, Rules are rules we are told,

 

[cncas2123]

We do not know the truth as of yet but due to U.K regs than they can be more than penalized & even get there licence revoked, They signed up to the rules when taking up the new U.K regs, Just the same as if we break rules we get no winnings, Rules are rules we are told,

Rules are rules, but sometimes they only apply the rules they want to apply and that work in their favour. I have to say on this one if the OP has self excluded for gambling issues, there is no way that the site should have reopened the account. I would also ask the question of the OP, why reopen the account at a site you had self excluded at, unless you wanted to have some risk free gambling? There are literally hundreds of UK licensed sites, so why go to the site that you are self excluded from? I agree with the earlier poster who thinks that any monies should be sent to a gambling charity.

 

[tinaj]

Hi, thanks to all for your replies and posts. I appreciate you taking the time to read and post. I do understand that it isn't fair to 'cry wolf' and some players have done this on purpose. In my case it is not this - I deeply regret my actions but it was certainly not a deliberate premeditated act. I have permanently self excluded everywhere, including Jackpot party/Slots Magic and have no other active accounts. Jackpot party was my favourite and when tempted to gamble the one site I returned to. I have had problems with them continuing to email me, including emailing me when the sites switched to ask me to open a new account although I was permanently self excluded and I have received marketing emails since. The emails seemed to stop but then restart again too.

The 'limitations' referred to by Krystal in her reply below were the permanent lifetime exclusion with no reopening option, with clearly stated gambling issues. I was continually blocked from reopening and told it was not possible as I had a permanent exclusion - until this time when they actually agreed and asked me to complete a short quiz about gambling habits and then reopened it quite easily after a short wait period. I was surprised and asked to check, as I had thought I might be self excluded at other skill on net sites, which I am sure I am. I was so depressed and low that I didn't actually care at the time. I do feel the site completely failed to uphold the permanent exclusion in place and should bear the responsibility for this - if I had won lots of money I am sure I would not have been paid due to a permanent exclusion having been put in place. Krystal however seems to imply that there is a different license (though before this always still meant I could not play). Weirdly, they made me open a whole new account with a different email address (I was instructed by email to do this and create a whole new account so did, despite feeling a bit concerned about it seeming like another duplicate account). I wonder now if this was because the old one was permanently self excluded and so could not be reactivated??

I have requested copies of my previous chats/emails but the agent on chat could not authorise this and this request has been passed to management and Krystal has also now referred it to management too. I was told yesterday management were not available, or during the weekend so now need to wait for their response.

I am not assuming I will receive anything but do believe there must be some case to reclaim my deposits since presumably all winnings would have been invalid too? I fully agree with all the comments about quitting gambling and have already taken steps to completely stop access to it and money as I am unable to do so responsibly.

Also, I am female not male just for the record!




Hi xxxxxxxx

I have now had time to investigate

There were limitations set on your JackpotParty account before you moved over to us and started playing on our License. Because of this, when you asked us to remove them so that you could play again, we followed procedure with a test and the appropriate cooling off period . You then informed us you still wished to proceed so we opened your account.

The procedure we followed was in full compliance with our UK license so you have no claim.
I am sorry for your troubles right now but unfortunately we cannot refund your losses.

Krystal

 

[Tirilej]

I have seen that kind of questions from another casino. I wonder if that is something they have been given/told by the UKGC to use.
I believe it should only been used though if someone have set a time for the exclusion and that time is up, a year or so, not for reopening an account that was set for life.

I think you should do a PAB here and it can be investigated properly.
It's free to do and you can start by reading the Pitch a Bitch FAQ https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

You may win or lose but at least we will find out what have happened.
Please do it and good luck!

 

[dunover]

Hi, thanks to all for your replies and posts. I appreciate you taking the time to read and post. I do understand that it isn't fair to 'cry wolf' and some players have done this on purpose. In my case it is not this - I deeply regret my actions but it was certainly not a deliberate premeditated act. I have permanently self excluded everywhere, including Jackpot party/Slots Magic and have no other active accounts. Jackpot party was my favourite and when tempted to gamble the one site I returned to. I have had problems with them continuing to email me, including emailing me when the sites switched to ask me to open a new account although I was permanently self excluded and I have received marketing emails since. The emails seemed to stop but then restart again too.

The 'limitations' referred to by Krystal in her reply below were the permanent lifetime exclusion with no reopening option, with clearly stated gambling issues. I was continually blocked from reopening and told it was not possible as I had a permanent exclusion - until this time when they actually agreed and asked me to complete a short quiz about gambling habits and then reopened it quite easily after a short wait period. I was surprised and asked to check, as I had thought I might be self excluded at other skill on net sites, which I am sure I am. I was so depressed and low that I didn't actually care at the time. I do feel the site completely failed to uphold the permanent exclusion in place and should bear the responsibility for this - if I had won lots of money I am sure I would not have been paid due to a permanent exclusion having been put in place. Krystal however seems to imply that there is a different license (though before this always still meant I could not play). Weirdly, they made me open a whole new account with a different email address (I was instructed by email to do this and create a whole new account so did, despite feeling a bit concerned about it seeming like another duplicate account). I wonder now if this was because the old one was permanently self excluded and so could not be reactivated??

I have requested copies of my previous chats/emails but the agent on chat could not authorise this and this request has been passed to management and Krystal has also now referred it to management too. I was told yesterday management were not available, or during the weekend so now need to wait for their response.

I am not assuming I will receive anything but do believe there must be some case to reclaim my deposits since presumably all winnings would have been invalid too? I fully agree with all the comments about quitting gambling and have already taken steps to completely stop access to it and money as I am unable to do so responsibly.

Also, I am female not male just for the record!




Hi xxxxxxxx

I have now had time to investigate

There were limitations set on your JackpotParty account before you moved over to us and started playing on our License. Because of this, when you asked us to remove them so that you could play again, we followed procedure with a test and the appropriate cooling off period . You then informed us you still wished to proceed so we opened your account.

The procedure we followed was in full compliance with our UK license so you have no claim.
I am sorry for your troubles right now but unfortunately we cannot refund your losses.

Krystal

OK, by your version of things they were complicit in encouraging and aiding you to open a new account with different details to get past the RG security/checks.
You would need the chat to prove this.
If so under eCogra rules your bets should be voided and stakes returned, win or lose.

IF Slots Magic did that it's completely wrong. You need some proof though.

 

[cncas2123]

OK, by your version of things they were complicit in encouraging and aiding you to open a new account with different details to get past the RG security/checks.
You would need the chat to prove this.
If so under eCogra rules your bets should be voided and stakes returned, win or lose.

IF Slots Magic did that it's completely wrong. You need some proof though.

And its also pretty appalling if they at any stage emailed you to encourage reopening your account or opening a new account. If that is the case they should be reported to the UKGC, I would have thought it would be a licensing condition to adhere to RG terms.

 

[tinaj]

Hi - I have had an email from the customer support manager, and above is my reply. I would welcome advice from members for the next steps as I do intend to pursue this all the way. The 'limitation' that they continue to vaguely mention is the PERMANENT LIFETIME EXCLUSION DUE TO GAMBLING ISSUES and this is the one reason that they should never have reopened it.



Dear xxxxxxxxxx

Thanks for your email.

However, I would like to ask for clarification as to the 'limitation' you refer to. I had specifically requested a permanent lifetime exclusion due to gambling issues which were clearly stated, with no reopening option. I believe your records also show this. Please can you explain why this was not applied this time on 11th May 2015 when I had made previous requests to have an account at Slots Magic which were correctly denied due to the permanent exclusion being in place?

I also received marketing material encouraging me to open an account at Slots Magic and continued marketing material since excluding permanently.

I believe you have breached your UK licence terms in firstky reopening a permanently excluded account and in continuing to send marketing material during the period of my previous exclusion, and additionally in instructing me to open an account in a different email address to get around the permanent exclusion. I do intend to pursue this to the furthest extent to recoup my wrongly accepted deposits. I would prefer to resolve this directly with the casino and therefore ask you to please explain again why a permanent self exclusion due to gambling issues has been reversed by Slots Magic and to return the deposits that should not have been accepted as I am a permanently excluded player.

Thank you in advance for your reply.





Dear xxxxxxxxxxx

I hope my email finds you well.

I am the Customer Support Manager for SlotsMagic.co.uk and I was very sorry to read about your situation.

Your request was brought to my attention by my colleagues in relation to your recent account closure and I wanted to personally address and clarify the issue with you.

I have thoroughly checked in our database and indeed we noticed a limitation on your account while you were playing at JackpotParty before the migration took place. Following the migration, consequently your account was moved to our UK license and until 11th May 2015 the account was indeed closed. On this date you requested to re-open it again.

As a precaution and in compliance with our UK Licensing requirements, you were kindly asked to go through an assessment test, wait 72 hours and then go through another 24-hour cooling off period.

At SlotsMagic.co.uk, such procedures are taken very seriously and it is only after successfully establishing these positive actions by the player that we can consider the reopening of an account.

What I can also confirm is that upon receiving your account closure request on Friday, May 29, 2015, we immediately placed the necessary restrictions on your account preventing future deposits and further temptation including promotional material.

I would also like to point out that we work together with some organisations that dedicate themselves to give counseling and assistance on gambling issues. You may contact any of the following:

Gamblers Anonymous

National Council on Problem Gambling

GamCare

Helping Hand/IGC

Gambling Therapy Helpline

You can find more information on our Responsible Gaming pages by clicking here.

xxxxxxxxxx, as I can totally understand your position, I would highly recommend that you seek assistance with the organisations above as this is ultimately the best course of action.

Lastly, with regards to your refund request, we will have to respectfully decline it, due to the fact that the procedure we followed was in full compliance with our UK license as previously mentioned.

Thank you in advance for your understanding in this matter and we apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Best regards,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Customer Support Manager
www.slotsmagic.co.uk
Tel no:0203 150 0852

 

[EGO]

I am dismayed to read private correspondence we have with you appearing in open Forum.

We will not discuss this here anymore because we are limited as to what we can disclose about this issue in public.
Whereas you can say what you want in order to inflame the situation and perhaps get forum members to somehow influence the outcome without knowing the full facts

As proof of this you are selectively using some of our replies and not others.

At 13.30 pm today i offered you 2 options in my PM reply to you when you told me you strongly disagreed with our decision , and i quote ..
''Ok well if you strongly disagree you have a number of options, one being to raise a PAB through the Forum or raise a complaint with eCogra''

So as final request from our side we urge you to do either of these 2 things or even both first thing in the morning.

Krystal

Hi - I have had an email from the customer support manager, and above is my reply. I would welcome advice from members for the next steps as I do intend to pursue this all the way. The 'limitation' that they continue to vaguely mention is the PERMANENT LIFETIME EXCLUSION DUE TO GAMBLING ISSUES and this is the one reason that they should never have reopened it.



Dear xxxxxxxxxx

Thanks for your email.

However, I would like to ask for clarification as to the 'limitation' you refer to. I had specifically requested a permanent lifetime exclusion due to gambling issues which were clearly stated, with no reopening option. I believe your records also show this. Please can you explain why this was not applied this time on 11th May 2015 when I had made previous requests to have an account at Slots Magic which were correctly denied due to the permanent exclusion being in place?

I also received marketing material encouraging me to open an account at Slots Magic and continued marketing material since excluding permanently.

I believe you have breached your UK licence terms in firstky reopening a permanently excluded account and in continuing to send marketing material during the period of my previous exclusion, and additionally in instructing me to open an account in a different email address to get around the permanent exclusion. I do intend to pursue this to the furthest extent to recoup my wrongly accepted deposits. I would prefer to resolve this directly with the casino and therefore ask you to please explain again why a permanent self exclusion due to gambling issues has been reversed by Slots Magic and to return the deposits that should not have been accepted as I am a permanently excluded player.

Thank you in advance for your reply.





Dear xxxxxxxxxxx

I hope my email finds you well.

I am the Customer Support Manager for SlotsMagic.co.uk and I was very sorry to read about your situation.

Your request was brought to my attention by my colleagues in relation to your recent account closure and I wanted to personally address and clarify the issue with you.

I have thoroughly checked in our database and indeed we noticed a limitation on your account while you were playing at JackpotParty before the migration took place. Following the migration, consequently your account was moved to our UK license and until 11th May 2015 the account was indeed closed. On this date you requested to re-open it again.

As a precaution and in compliance with our UK Licensing requirements, you were kindly asked to go through an assessment test, wait 72 hours and then go through another 24-hour cooling off period.

At SlotsMagic.co.uk, such procedures are taken very seriously and it is only after successfully establishing these positive actions by the player that we can consider the reopening of an account.

What I can also confirm is that upon receiving your account closure request on Friday, May 29, 2015, we immediately placed the necessary restrictions on your account preventing future deposits and further temptation including promotional material.

I would also like to point out that we work together with some organisations that dedicate themselves to give counseling and assistance on gambling issues. You may contact any of the following:

Gamblers Anonymous

National Council on Problem Gambling

GamCare

Helping Hand/IGC

Gambling Therapy Helpline

You can find more information on our Responsible Gaming pages by clicking here.

xxxxxxxxxx, as I can totally understand your position, I would highly recommend that you seek assistance with the organisations above as this is ultimately the best course of action.

Lastly, with regards to your refund request, we will have to respectfully decline it, due to the fact that the procedure we followed was in full compliance with our UK license as previously mentioned.

Thank you in advance for your understanding in this matter and we apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Best regards,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Customer Support Manager
www.slotsmagic.co.uk
Tel no:0203 150 0852

 

[Tirilej]

I agree with Krystal and I already asked you to file a PAB here.

Please do that or seek help somewhere else. That is fair to the casino too.
We don't know if you are telling the whole truth no matter what you say here.

 

[tinaj]

Krystal

I am surprised at your post - I am certainly not seeking to 'inflame' the situation. I think it's clear I have only been polite in all my dealings and communications both here and with jackpot party/slots magic. I came here for advice and support and that's all.

I didn't post your other reply because I actually thought it was quite rude and I didn't think it served any purpose to post and complain about it. In it you told me off saying I should have emailed your support before posting here. I had already done that and sent them the full details and can prove I did before posting here. This was before you became involved here. I am certainly not selectively using replies and there isn't any more to this case than I have explained - it comes down to the question of a permanent exclusion due to gambling issues not being applied.

I do accept you don't want private emails shared - however I felt the content quite general and not if a particularly sensitive nature. The manager still doesn't address the issues. I have replied to him to ask him to do so and the casino still have not provided copies of past chats and emails I have asked for. I will file a PAB now and was intending to do so this evening on the good advice I had read. I will not share any other communications publically. Please can you send me copies of my past transcripts and communications for JP and slots magic Krystal as presumably there is no reason to withhold these?

Thanks

 

[The Blue Anchor]

this is a tricky one given it was a migration from another site.

It seems the casino asked questions, then had a cooling off period - then asked more questions, it's hard to say they didn't take some precautions.

I don't think the casino has to refund deposits in this case, unless they encouraged the op to re-open the a/c.

 

[tinaj]

I had an email with full marketing when slots magic opened while permanently self excluded at jackpot party encouraging me to join which is how I was first aware of the new site. That is absolutely true. They did tell me when I went on chat after it is was an error and I actually wasn't allowed to join.

this is a tricky one given it was a migration from another site.

It seems the casino asked questions, then had a cooling off period - then asked more questions, it's hard to say they didn't take some precautions.

I don't think the casino has to refund deposits in this case, unless they encouraged the op to re-open the a/c.

 

[Finn]

Slots Magic doesn't use Jackpot Party's licenses, they aren't even in the same jurisdictions, Jackpot Party operated under Alderney jurisdiction, whereas Slots Magic operates under Malta jurisdiction and later in addition to that UK jurisdiction.

So in this way, this is not directly comparable to those EM cases, because in those cases, players were self-excluded under that same EM license, but were able to open new accounts at different EM websites operating under same license.

But even if they didn't buy their Alderney license or chose to not to continue to use it, buying of player databases from Jackpot Party should have given them enough direct information of players' gambling problems.

 

[tinaj]

I have submitted a PAB so will not post here again whilst it is in progress. Thanks.

 

[Jasminebed]

Tinaj, I have asked a moderator to move you to the Quit Gambling section of the forum. This will place limitations on your use of the site, including not seeing casino banners and winning screenshots, and other temptations.

I am going to ask you some things, and if you wish to answer me by PM, but mostly I want you to look in your heart of hearts, and find the truth of the matter.

Did you truly believe in your heart of heart that if you won you would not be paid? Did that not even matter, as you knew you would blow it all until there was nothing left so it wouldn't matter if they paid or not?

Did you believe because you followed the "correct procedure" that you would be paid? That some miracle (or randomness, lady luck, or I am due for a win) that this time if you could just win enough money it would solve all those problems in your life.

Or were you using your drug of gambling because MONEY REALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GAMBLING ADDICTION. Money is merely the tool to purchase our addiction.

Gambling has caused issues in my life in the past, this is well known here, and I learned a lot that allows me to be a much more controlled gambler, and I use harm reduction strategies to keep me safe from myself. I too have had issues with depression in the past, and my last "slip" from my more controlled life (for quite a few years, prior to online gambling) was following the death of my boyfriend. In addition to grief, I was dealing with a sudden and drastic change in my ability to pay my bills, the time of year I am at my lowest due to Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).

I still identify myself as an "at risk" gambler. For the first time in quite a number of years I find myself dealing with depression. I have just begun medication again, which generally works well for me to "nip it in the bud" so to speak. I saw small changes in my gambling creep in. Not so much how much I deposited, or lost, but failures to cashout when I should have because I wanted the escapism that the absorbtion slotting gives me.

I wish you well in both your battles. I have faith you can improve your life.

If you think your gambling is about money, I'd dig a little deeper. Get yourself into some professional care for that area too.

I read something just tonight that struck me, although not about gambling per se . I'll paraphrase to "We cannot expect corporations to have a moral compass, the federal government must regulate it".

The UK licencing I do believe is aiming for that with their Responsible Gambling code.

I am not UK, and not entirely familar with all their procedures, but I do believe that if a casino inadvertently permits a self-excluded gambler they MUST void his wins when it is realized, which is often upon the verification process often first triggered upon withdrawal request.

I am sure some other members can fill me in, but aren't there requirements on identifying problem gamblers? If they consider a simple little quiz a yardstick to decide a gambler that asked for Permanent Self Exclusion and 4 days cooling off period responsible, then I think the UKG should be told that ADDICTS LIE!

If indeed Slots Magic feels that actively soliciting a known problem gambler and following regulations to a T then I think they lack a moral compass.

Slots Magic is a casino, they know how profitable an addict can be. And I bet you dollars to doughnuts that management knows that addicts lie.

Tina, you are a wife and a mother. You need a moral compass more than Slots Magic does. You know right from wrong, but the double whammy of depression and compulsive gambling probably has you doing things you know are not right.

I don't know who you borrowed the money from. I don't know what you told them was the reason.

If it was any kind of conventional lender, then you have the ability to repay it or it would not have been granted to you.

If it was from a friend or family member, I bet you didn't go "Hey mom, I'm bummed out tonight, can I have $3K to go blow on slots?"

I have had very very bad episodes of depression. Life threatening ones. They never stole my moral compass.

But gambling did in my past.. Or rather, I took paths I knew to be wrong to feed my compulsion. I think at times it was so strong I forgot to look at my compass at all!

There have been a lot of suggestions that you "take it on the chin"

If you are successful in your PAB, I think you should begin to get your moral compass back by handing it straight back to whoever you borrowed it from and tell them how you lied about your reason for borrowing it, that you are sorry, and that you are trying to get help. Every bail out we get (even if a loved one knows it was because we slipped up) just delays our recovery.

You better tell your spouse if you haven't already. You need his support, and I hope you get it.

 

[Richas]

As I have a long history of lobbying on self exclusion issues in the UK I got a PM asking me to add to this thread.

Firstly this issue is not going away any time soon. The UKGC has a live proposal to have a central database of the self excluded that all UK licenced sites need to use to prevent the self excluded accessing any UK licenced site. This will certainly apply to UK based players but they are also looking at how that service could be made available to all players using sites with a UK licence. There are a range of issues with this including data protection, verifying user identity and paying for that huge expansion of the service.

This is the briefing note on the proposal which includes how identity will be managed for UK based players

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The new system is likely to lead to an increase in disputes rather than a decrease.

The new system also means that it will be important for players to have a route out of self exclusion if and when circumstances change and a minimum period of exclusion has elapsed. I have argued that an appropriate help organisation should be involved in OKing a return to play rather than any individual site. There are many reasons for this but it is likely to be expensive to administer and would also involve (as today) an obligation on the site to monitor the gambling behaviour of the returnee closely likely linked to establishing reasonable stop losses/deposit limits and more. Today a player can choose to return just by going to another site, in future that will not be an option so a managed return takes on additional importance and sensitivity because it is an active decision to permit (after the mandated time out). Personally I think an organisation like GamCare should make that call, not a site looking to profit from the at risk player.

The UKGC quite rightly would not support a situation where a player could freeroll a site by seeking self exclusion, then gambling then demanding and receiving a refund whilst also expecting to receive any winnings. Such a scam could not be supported by a regulator.

Indeed the UKGC has gone futher and seems sympathetic to operators seizing deposited funds of self excluded players seeking to break their self exclusion. Not only do they let casinos like LCI (Caesars) impose such terms they proposed to make it standard in their last consultation but failed to ask sufficient questions for the consultation to be valid - they forgot to ask for views on it at all having just a general question for that whole section.

Persoanally I am vehemently opposed to seizing deposited funds, IMHO ungambled funds should be returned to the player, a balance below deposit level over the excluded period should IMHO be returned to the player but there should be no refund of monies lost whilst deliberately avoinding a self exclusion. Winnings should not be paid to the player either, the incentive to breech a current self exclusion should be removed as far as possible (note this is different to a returning player post serving a self exclusion).

For sites though - they should not profit via allowing a self excluded player access. Any monies they win should go as additional contributions towards gambling help/research rather than to their bottom line. A winner refused payout due to a self exclusion and higher ID checks for payout should receive their deposit but not their winnings - that should go to charity/help/research.

The operators are going to be asked to pay for the new centralised self exclusion - the estimate is a £2m setup cost and a £1m a year running cost for identity checks etc - which would take place at every logon. This is a significant extra regulatory cost - in 2012-13 the UKGC had £12.8m revenue from licenced operators. The recent big expansion of online licencees is likely to add about £1.5m to that meanwhile remote licencees are about to be asked for another £5m over three years.

Now this is a big hit to operators, one I think is fair though, what would not be fair would be taking all this extra money to deliver improved self exclusion and then leave the operators exposed to scammers or have the self exclusion process be abused by those using it either as genuine problem gamblers seeking help or as a way to freeroll.

I hope this info has been helpful for some.

 

[dunover]

This is frankly unworkable. What if a player falls out with a casino, gets a permanent exclusion and finds he can't play anywhere else because of one site when he never had a gambling issue to start with? Again it leaves the onus on the individual casinos. Most UK-facing sites act responsibly anyway. It could potentially deprive the casino industry of multitudes of responsible players due to one site.
I think if this ever comes about it can be abused by casinos and players.
If there is to be a central database of SE'd players who want permanent exclusion from all online gaming, entry should be at the behest of the individual player via a link from the casinos which they would be made to have in their RG section. This would also satisfy any data protection issues, as the entry onto this database would be made by the player themselves and NOT a third-party.

 

[cncas2123]

This is frankly unworkable. What if a player falls out with a casino, gets a permanent exclusion and finds he can't play anywhere else because of one site when he never had a gambling issue to start with? Again it leaves the onus on the individual casinos. Most UK-facing sites act responsibly anyway. It could potentially deprive the casino industry of multitudes of responsible players due to one site.
I think if this ever comes about it can be abused by casinos and players.
If there is to be a central database of SE'd players who want permanent exclusion from all online gaming, entry should be at the behest of the individual player via a link from the casinos which they would be made to have in their RG section. This would also satisfy any data protection issues, as the entry onto this database would be made by the player themselves and NOT a third-party.

I agree 100% that it must be the player who signs up to the database, and the sites should all provide a prominent link to this. Just look at the EM fiasco with players only finding out the are excluded from a site when they try to make their first withdrawal. If its not done properly it will be choas for the sites as well as the players.

 

[Jasminebed]

I am a big believer in personal responsibility, but I also believe the state has a responsibility to protect it's most vulnerable members.

I have a pretty good but not infallible memory. IRC problem gamblers make up about 2% of gamblers, but about 10% of casino revenue. This is a significant number.I know at one point I contacted a couple of agencies, and estimated numbers due to how data is collected might actually by higher for casino revenues.

I know that where I live in Ontario, the self-exclusion rules are a joke. Recovery may not happen in six months, and there is zero monitoring for those who self exclude and come back. The most popular forms of gambling all contribute to government revenues.

I fully agree with Richas that those who profit the most from problem gamblers should not be those making the decisions about how to handle them.

I don't know what the right answers are, but I am pretty much sure the current answers are not the right ones.

While casinos might be exploited by some scammers playing self-excluded card, self-excluded gamblers can also be targeted by less than scrupulous casinos. Since the house always has an edge, well, I am guessing which one profits the most.

I think I manage my gambling pretty well these days. I don't want a casino to be able to look at my selfie with my ID and decide I should really be spending my money on a better haircut and more recent clothing. That's my call IMO, and for the record, I did get a very nice haircut just recently, but I chose a casino deposit more than one week when I should have had one.

I have a party to host today, so I am outta here.

I am so glad to be part of this community. Casinomeister has been such a big part of me being a more responsible gambler, something that was not always true for me.

 

[Richas]

This is frankly unworkable. What if a player falls out with a casino, gets a permanent exclusion and finds he can't play anywhere else because of one site when he never had a gambling issue to start with? Again it leaves the onus on the individual casinos. Most UK-facing sites act responsibly anyway. It could potentially deprive the casino industry of multitudes of responsible players due to one site.
I think if this ever comes about it can be abused by casinos and players.
If there is to be a central database of SE'd players who want permanent exclusion from all online gaming, entry should be at the behest of the individual player via a link from the casinos which they would be made to have in their RG section. This would also satisfy any data protection issues, as the entry onto this database would be made by the player themselves and NOT a third-party.

Read the briefing - the player has to opt in to multi supplier self exclusion, it is not a banned list driven by opertors.

As for data protection, opt in does help in terms of permissible transfer but there are issues with data to countries without suitable data protection laws and for major operators who under this sceme are being trusted with an unencrypted copy of the whole database.

 

[lockinlove]

I am dismayed to read private correspondence we have with you appearing in open Forum.

We will not discuss this here anymore because we are limited as to what we can disclose about this issue in public.
Whereas you can say what you want in order to inflame the situation and perhaps get forum members to somehow influence the outcome without knowing the full facts

As proof of this you are selectively using some of our replies and not others.

At 13.30 pm today i offered you 2 options in my PM reply to you when you told me you strongly disagreed with our decision , and i quote ..
''Ok well if you strongly disagree you have a number of options, one being to raise a PAB through the Forum or raise a complaint with eCogra''

So as final request from our side we urge you to do either of these 2 things or even both first thing in the morning.

Krystal

So since you guys dont refund losses/deposits when they lose but pay deposits only when someone wins... I assume you pay winnings when this happens? Same situation but the player won.

Cant have your cake and eat it too. So one of the two people are gonna get paid here. If not, you are freerolling players and thats wrong.

BTW Im not sticking up for any of them because I think its idiotic to go and play after you self exclude. However, fair is fair.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/sister-sites-and-refusing-winnings.67456/

 

[Richas]

So since you guys dont refund losses/deposits when they lose but pay deposits only when someone wins... I assume you pay winnings when this happens? Same situation but the player won.

Cant have your cake and eat it too. So one of the two people are gonna get paid here. If not, you are freerolling players and thats wrong.

BTW Im not sticking up for any of them because I think its idiotic to go and play after you self exclude. However, fair is fair.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/sister-sites-and-refusing-winnings.67456/

No the self excluded would be freerolling themselves, or at least only possibly winning to benefit gambling treatment/research.

It is important that sites can't benefit from allowing self excluded players to gamble, it is also important to try and remove any incentive for the self excluded to break their self exclusion. That's balanced - if the site wins the profit goes to charity, if the player wins the profit goes to charity - if the deposit remains it goes back to the player - a push.

 

[tinaj]

Hi

I have not heard from Max/admin since submitting the PAB almost 2 weeks ago. I did read the FAQ and think I've done it correctly. I did email to ask if he could acknowledge if it had been received but haven't heard back. I am not sure how to contact him on here - does anyone know his email or how to pm him? Sorry - am a bit of a novice here.

Many thanks.

 

[maxd]

I have not heard from Max/admin since submitting the PAB almost 2 weeks ago. I did read the FAQ and think I've done it correctly. I did email to ask if he could acknowledge if it had been received but haven't heard back. I am not sure how to contact him on here - does anyone know his email or how to pm him? Sorry - am a bit of a novice here.

I had emailed the OP to say that they needed to go to eCOGRA per the casino's Terms, so effectively the case was transferred out of our hands.