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"sister sites" and refusing winnings

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by bigthompers, May 31, 2015.

Tags:
    May 31, 2015
  1. bigthompers

    bigthompers Scammer - bogus PABs - fraud PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Hard Labour
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Hi, I'm Lee, new here so sorry if I'm breaking any rules by not searching first (wouldn't know what keywords to use!). I read a bit but have never posted.

    Not a complaint as such as I'm still eagerly awaiting the outcome but...

    Anyway, last year I played some at Slots Magic and lost, as I often do because I'm a terrible gambler. Anyway I self excluded the account in a little sulk as I often do.

    On Saturday I made an account at Mega Casino, who I didn't know were affiliated with Slots Magic, and actually won (wow, I know). I haven't spoken to the payment department as they're not open until tomorrow but I'm as worried as now because I shortly after requesting the withdrawal I received this email...

    Dear *********

    On checking your account I can see that on 11/11/2014 you requested to close your other account ******** for personal reasons.

    Please be advised that we have deactivated your account as a part of our Responsible Gaming Policy to ensure that all of our customers are playing responsibly and are in control with their spending. In case you have available funds in your account, please be rest assured that we will refund the amount deposited.

    Thank you for your support and cooperation and if you have any question, please do not hesitate to contact us

    Kind regards,

    Gordon

    Playmillion.co.uk Customer Support
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Tel no:+1 647 724 4691

    I have a £1600+ withdrawal pending on Mega Casino still, but after I withdrew it my ability to play for real money was rescinded because of the Slots Magic thing, is it likely that they'll try and wrangle out of paying me this because of the Slots Magic exclusion?

    It's also worth noting that they didn't prevent me from playing until it became apparent that I'd won! Does anyone have any experience of anything like this? Worried sick here! Are they likely to honour the withdrawal when the payments department opens tomorrow?
     
  2. May 31, 2015
  3. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    Was trying to find something that would make you feel better and less worried.

    Unfortunately I cant. This self exclusion then depositing at a sister casino is everywhere at the moment. There are so many recent threads its unreal.

    Anyway basically its in the casinos terms that you cannot play at a sister casino of one you have excluded from. Its not always easy to know what casinos are part of groups and its been discussed many times on here whether its right or wrong.

    But from recent outcomes I am afraid that the casino will just pay your deposit back and not the winnings. Might seem unfair but basically as its in their terms they can and will do it.

    You could try pming the rep http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/member.php?u=36004 but I don't think it will do you any good but its worth a try.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. May 31, 2015
  5. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Both are owned by Skill-on-Net. As Paul says, with all the white labels and cloned sites cropping up these days it's getting really confusing out there and you aren't the first to encounter this. Because they have a UK licence there is likely to be a procedure but that probably protects your deposits only.

    I'm not sure this helps you but something needs to be done to make this situation clearer for players. I'd push the argument that it wasn't clear on the PlayMillion site they were affiliated to Slots Magic but this one is awkward because the UKGC takes responsible gambling policies very seriously (or so they are obliged to say - jury's still out on that one because they haven't exactly excelled themselves on player issues thus far).

    I think it's probably fair to say that if you hadn't self-excluded, they aren't the sort of company that would go looking to void your winnings from my experience with Slots Magic and knowing the people behind it but that's only best-guess.


    You could try PABbing this.
     
    4 people like this.
  6. May 31, 2015
  7. bigthompers

    bigthompers Scammer - bogus PABs - fraud PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Hard Labour
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The thing is they aren't even "sister" sites, per say. They're separately owned but both operated by Skill On Net ltd. I can still log in to the site I'm supposedly excluded from too, just restricted from playing for real money. Really bricking it, it's a huge sum of money for me
     
  8. May 31, 2015
  9. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    You will get your deposits back. They are obliged to do that. If those arrive back alone and you feel you should have had your winnings too, raise a PAB (see my post above) and see what Max the PAB guy has to say.
     
  10. May 31, 2015
  11. bigthompers

    bigthompers Scammer - bogus PABs - fraud PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Hard Labour
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks, I definitely will do that is they don't play ball, I want my winnings! . I'm sure I've probably lost more at their establishments since my very very first exclusion, and they haven't gone out of their way to detect and refund those! I'll be livid if they don't pay me, it's basically a scam.
     
  12. May 31, 2015
  13. onkel

    onkel Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Larnaca, Cyprus, Cyprus
    I believe they share a license, which make them "sister sites" despite the owner situation. Unfortunately, I'm afraid, you'll only see your Playmillion deposit(s) back.

    On a somewhat related note, has anyone heard of a casino contacting a player after losing deposits saying they'll get them back because they were SE'd on a sister casino?
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. May 31, 2015
  15. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Almost but not quite. I opened an account at "VC Casino" then, not doing the association thing, an account at BetVictor after they'd re-branded (3-4 years between the two events). I went on to lose a significant amount but the following day they emailed me to tell me they were closing the account and refunding all the deposits.
     
    3 people like this.
  16. May 31, 2015
  17. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Casinos are taking good advantage of this,

    You keep playing to you finally win, Than only for that deposit to be returned, What about all the deposits you made before hand?

    Its very hard to find out who belongs to who also & taking full advantage of this, There has been so many people losing money due to the self exclude,

    They said you self excluded on 11/11/2014, Check all there sister sites and try and get any money back deposited after that date, Unlikely but theses casino's can not have it both ways, They should get a big fine slapped on them,

    Enough is enough Im afraid, Some thing should be done sharpish,

    I will guarantee that somebody took theses to court than all money across sister sites deposit after the exclusion would have to be returned, & Hopefully fined

    On the same Licence (skill on net)

    Prime Casino
    RedKings
    Queen Vegas
    Luna Casino
    Simba Games
    Vegas Winner
    SlotsMagic
    EUCasino
    MegaCasino
    PlayMillion
     
    5 people like this.
  18. May 31, 2015
  19. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    There is another thread about someone doing this but losing alot of money...A bit different situation but they too were supposed to be closed via responsible gaming. However they got back on and lost.

    If they dont pay back that person losses..Then they cant pay you your winnings.

    However, If they return the persons losses you will get your winnings.

    I dont agree with the person in that thread..losing then crying wolf so dont get me wrong. But they cant have it both ways.

    If the casino takes you money when your lose...then they cant just withhold winnings if you win. Because if they do this they are purely allowing players to come back and freeroll them.
     
    3 people like this.
  20. Jun 1, 2015
  21. bigthompers

    bigthompers Scammer - bogus PABs - fraud PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Hard Labour
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    thanks guys for demoralising replies ahaha. Any S-O_N reps hang around on here?
     
  22. Jun 1, 2015
  23. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The big problem is that they are only "sister sites" when it suits them. A thread a while back had so called "sister sites", or one in particular, up in arms when we were accusing them of being a "sister site" to another site on the same platform, and operating under the same licence, as another that appeared to be screwing over players.

    They can't have it both ways, and from now on all these white label sites will just have to accept that to all intents and purposes, the membership here will treat them as being "sister sites" regardless of what their reps say otherwise if they share things like licence numbers, support, payment teams, etc. This has to be the case for the safety of players who might otherwise end up in trouble similar to the OP by NOT noticing even vague connections that make two different sites "sisters" with regard to overall policies. Of course, I bet they won't be "sister sites" when it comes to returning LOST deposits.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Jun 2, 2015
  25. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    So far, you have not did break any forum rules. You have come to the right place to find help.

    Neither Playmillion or Mega Casino are accredited here. But Slot Magic is, and while Krystal does not officially represent Mega Casino, I'd send her a PM and ask for her help. Ask her to check if you have accounts at any of the other Skill-On-Net casinos spintee lists.
    She's an affiliate rep for Slots Magic, she might not be able to do that.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/member.php?u=36004

    Don't post anything more about your issue until she's had a reasonable amount of time (I'd say by the end of the week) to look into it. If nothing else, she should be able to provide you with information about your account closure at Slots Magic, and should be able to check if you have accounts

    Whether you will receive your winnings, well, I am not sure about that. An awful lot will hinge on just how you requested that account closure.

    The "other thread" that has been mentioned is this one... http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/member.php?u=36004

    I am sure you will find it a most interesting read.

    The next thing I would do is STOP DEPOSITING unless you go and read the the terms before that deposit. Google that licence number you see, and the company name. Ask in writing if there are sister casinos, or other casinos under their licence. Wait for their response, make sure you save all your correspondence, and ask them to check if you are on until you have had a chance to look at every casino you play at. Or at email to ask if you have self-excluded I am telling you this because you say you often close accounts, and it depends how you word those account closures.

    There is another group, Every Matrix. It also has a lot of casinos, so you more than likely have joined at least one of them. If you see that name, make sure you ask if you are self-excluded.

    Another large group is Cassava. The don't make it very easy to find which casinos share the same licence.

    I am not in the UK, so I can't even get to pages that would appear to you. I could not however find mention of any sister sites.

    I have no idea if you read the terms and conditions fully before agreeing to them.

    Pretty much only takes one voided win to get you reading them.

    I am not the only member that is not very happy with how the new UK Responsible Gambling regulations seem to be working out in many cases.

    I do not think it is being made clear enough to players just what self exclusion means from what I have read on the matter.

    Go read that PAB FAQ. If the rep can't get you the resolution you want, you can PAB.

    Check your records to see if you deposited at any of those sister sites too.

    Now you are more than welcome to introduce yourself, share stories and opinions about games, but one of the first and most important rules of the PAB process is not to talk about it. I think you may need this service.

    Now, I am making the assumption that you are not trying to quit gambling, and joined Mega Casino in a moment of weakness. Even here you refer to yourself as a "terrible gambler" and I took it what you mean by that is that you didn't win that time, since you said (a little sulk), not that you are an addict, degenerate gambler or problem gambler.

    Take a look at your records and see if you have made deposits at any of the casinos spintee lists since you closed your Slots magic account.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jun 2, 2015
  27. bigthompers

    bigthompers Scammer - bogus PABs - fraud PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Hard Labour
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks for the advice guys, I've took most of it and I guess it's the waiting game now! What bemuses me is that slotsmagic and MegaCasino are different companies, they're just operated by skill on net. I don't think that's a good enough reason to exclude from both if you do so from one!
     
  28. Jun 2, 2015
  29. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    In all fairness to the casinos involved, and it is not just you that did not realize by self-excluding you excluded yourself from ALL casinos that share the same UK Licence. If you are in this data base as a problem gambler, the casinos HAVE to only return your deposit(s) in order to keep their licence.

    I know that when I click the license link, for Malta (the jurisdiction that applies to me), I get a list of all the casinos that use that licence. If you go to their Mega Casino's page, you should be able to ciick on the UK License symbol and get the list that spintee provided you.

    I don't think it is something the average player would know to do. I have been a member of this community for many years, and still not quite sure what I am not even what a "white label" really is.

    It's actually a better way to check if there are any casinos you might have self excluded from have "sisters".

    I think you would be well advised not to post anything further in this thread for a bit. It can hurt your chances at a resolution either through the rep or with a PAB if it gets to that.

    I'd stay off the whole topic of self-exclusion in general as a precaution, even in general terms or other threads. But you will find it enlightening to read here at CM, no matter how experienced a gambler you are.

    I am still unclear know if you self-excluded at Slots Magic because you do have an addiction and you wanted to not gamble at all anymore. I don't want you to tell me that either, at least not here.

    But if you are struggling with gambling problems and you really did want the help of self-exclusion, well, go visit all the casinos you play at and self-exclude at those casinos too.

    Get yourself to a meeting, ask a moderator to put you in the Quit Gambling Group (just use that little triangle for report post on your first post).

    If you are not trying to quit gambling entirely, but would like to in better control of yourself (and trust me, you would not be the only gambler who would be wise to learn a little bit more self control). you will find some pretty useful advice in the Quit Gambling Section of the forum.

    For a lot of us, deposit and/or loss limits are very useful tools. For the government casino I can play at, I HAD to set those limits. I can change them, but there is a cooling off period before that takes effect if I want to raise them, immediate if I want to lower them.

    There's a lot of great info here at CM, and I am sorry it's a problem that brought you here. If nothing else, you'll end up spending so much time here you won't have time to gamble anymore :)
     
  30. Jun 2, 2015
  31. Finn

    Finn Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Finland
    Slots Magic

    Mega Casino
    They operate under same Malta Gaming Authority license, from MGA's point of view they are same company, they have exactly same addresses, company numbers, etc. Had you lost at Mega Casin, and started a complaint process and had Mega Casino not returned your deposits, MGA would have eventually forced them to return your deposit due to you being self excluded at Slots Magic, which operates under same license.
     
  32. Jun 2, 2015
  33. bigthompers

    bigthompers Scammer - bogus PABs - fraud PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Hard Labour
    Location:
    United Kingdom


    How would this would with the UK gambling commission?
     
  34. Jun 4, 2015
  35. bigthompers

    bigthompers Scammer - bogus PABs - fraud PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Hard Labour
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Predictably deposit returned and kept my winnings for themselves. Despite this!

    me: slotsmagic sorry
    me: not mgicslots
    Olga: Ok
    Olga: After checking your account I see that it was blocked as it is related to another account in the system which was closed
    me: which one
    Olga: thompers86
    Olga: You requested to close it permanently and we have deactivated your account as a part of our Responsible Gaming Policy
    Olga:
    me: which site
    Olga: SlotsMagic.co.uk
    me: that was closed today
    me: correct?
    Olga: On the 11/11/2014
    me: they;re differently owned sites though correct?
    Olga: It is within the same system
    me: no they're both operated by skillonnet
    me: slotsmagic sorry
    me: not mgicslots
    Olga: Ok
    Olga: After checking your account I see that it was blocked as it is related to another account in the system which was closed
    me: which one
    Olga: thompers86
    Olga: You requested to close it permanently and we have deactivated your account as a part of our Responsible Gaming Policy
    Olga:
    me: which site
    Olga: SlotsMagic.co.uk
    me: that was closed today
    me: correct?
    Olga: On the 11/11/2014
    me: they;re differently owned sites though correct?
    Olga: It is within the same system
    me: no they're both operated by skillonnet
    me: but separately owned?
    Olga: yes
    me: so i should be allowed to play at megacasino as i didnt request exclusion from here
    Olga: No, your account was closed
    me: why?
    Olga: as a part of our Responsible Gaming Policy
    me: i have a pending withdrawal on it
    Olga: It will be processed, no problem
    me: are you sure?
    Olga: Yes, no worries
    me: the full withdrawal will be paid to me?

    Olga: We are sister casinos
    me: slotsmagic sorry
    me: not mgicslots
    Olga: Ok
    Olga: After checking your account I see that it was blocked as it is related to another account in the system which was closed
    me: which one
    Olga: thompers86
    Olga: You requested to close it permanently and we have deactivated your account as a part of our Responsible Gaming Policy
    Olga:
    me: which site
    Olga: SlotsMagic.co.uk
    me: that was closed today
    me: correct?
    Olga: On the 11/11/2014
    me: they;re differently owned sites though correct?
    Olga: It is within the same system
    me: no they're both operated by skillonnet
    me: but separately owned?
    Olga: yes
    me: so i should be allowed to play at megacasino as i didnt request exclusion from here
    Olga: No, your account was closed
    me: why?
    Olga: as a part of our Responsible Gaming Policy
    me: i have a pending withdrawal on it
    Olga: It will be processed, no problem
    me: are you sure?
    Olga: Yes, no worries
    me: the full withdrawal will be paid to me?

    Olga: We are sister casinos
    me: where is this made clear?
    me: because Primegaming, Mega Casino's owner doesn't list it as a sister casino
    Olga: It is within the system of Skill On Net
    me: you stated that the withdrawal will be paid then backtracked and said the payments depertment will check it. will i be paid on not?
    Olga: yes, the fact that your account is closed will not affect the withdrawal: where is this made clear?
    me: because Primegaming, Mega Casino's owner doesn't list it as a sister casino
    Olga: It is within the system of Skill On Net
    me: you stated that the withdrawal will be paid then backtracked and said the payments depertment will check it. will i be paid on not?
    Olga: yes, the fact that your account is closed will not affect the withdrawal: but separately owned?
    Olga: yes
    me: so i should be allowed to play at megacasino as i didnt request exclusion from here
    Olga: No, your account was closed
    me: why?
    Olga: as a part of our Responsible Gaming Policy
    me: i have a pending withdrawal on it
    Olga: It will be processed, no problem
    me: are you sure?
    Olga: Yes, no worries
    me: the full withdrawal will be paid to me?

    Olga: We are sister casinos
    me: where is this made clear?
    me: because Primegaming, Mega Casino's owner doesn't list it as a sister casino
    Olga: It is within the system of Skill On Net
    me: you stated that the withdrawal will be paid then backtracked and said the payments depertment will check it. will i be paid on not?
    Olga: yes, the fact that your account is closed will not affect the withdrawal
     
  36. Jun 4, 2015
  37. thebigs

    thebigs Senior Member

    Occupation:
    part time argos slave lol
    Location:
    roscommon ireland
    I really feel for you buddy here and i just cannot understand for the life of me is that if you sign on to a casino then in this day in age surely the computer system they use that the person who is trying to register should not be allowed instead of allowing this and then having these issues afterwards.
    I wonder how many times has a casino's kept a players losing deposits that have been unaware they have joined a sister casino after a self exclusion.
    As other's have stated there are so many sister casino's these days it is a bit ridiculous and why would a group have so bloody many.
    So until the casino's have a system that detects upon registering we will continue to see this type of thread.
     
  38. Jun 4, 2015
  39. bigthompers

    bigthompers Scammer - bogus PABs - fraud PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Hard Labour
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks for the kind words. I think casinos that enploy these kinds of tactics should form part of a rogue list for sure, I haven't had a win that big for years and years either :eek2: I find on here most people tend to side with the casinos however!
     

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