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Silly Bonus of the Month - April

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by KasinoKing, Apr 20, 2005.

    Apr 20, 2005
  1. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I'm thinking about starting a monthly thread for silly bonuses!

    This idea came to me when I got a 10% bonus offer from Colosseum.
    I don't normally give anything below 50% a second glance, but I was bored so checked it out.

    Deposit $100 for example, and get $10 free! The WR was OK (D+Bx6 I think?), but you had to double the bonus amount to withdraw ANYTHING.
    In other words, unless you can get your bank balance above $120 after wagering $660, you are trapped into wagering your $100 until it is all gone! :(

    If you take this offer - you are CRAZY!

    (Now I can see why some punters never take bonuses! :D )

    No doubt there are many other silly ones out there which people will tell us about...
     
  2. Apr 20, 2005
  3. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Casino Del Rio and Europa probably deserve a thread of their own, not so much for the bonuses being bad as for the comically blatant lies - e.g. this e-mail with the subject: "Risk-free Blackjack"

    "Enjoy 24 hours of risk-free blackjack at Casino Del Rio!

    Simply deposit at least 100, and earn 150 comps on blackjack. If you end the day with less than 100% payouts, we'll kick-back 25% of the dealer's take!"

    So how does that work out as risk-free? :confused: :D

    Though they've got competition from this Casino Fortune offer:

    "No RISKS JUST TREATS!

    Start Date: 14th April 05 - End Date: 20th April 05 at 12 midnight!
    Risk 100 Get Treated to 125, it's that simple."

    Tip for all casino PR staff: if you're going to contradict yourself, try and at least leave a bit of a gap between the contradictory statements! ;)
     
  4. Apr 20, 2005
  5. Gluten

    Gluten Dormant account

    Occupation:
    My Job?
    Location:
    DK
    Hehe, that sure is some juicy promotions! I don't get why some casinos will risk their "hard earned" reputation by conjuring up these silly moneytraps.
    I had a look see at other "bonus offers" colosseum is making. This is from their new customer sign up:

    Code:
    To WITHDRAW your original deposit and bonus you need to fulfill the following two requirements:
    
       1. YOU MUST WITHDRAW at least the original amount deposited plus double the bonus - Please note that you cannot double the bonus by playing the following games: Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Blackjack, Red Dog, Sic Bo, Video Poker, Table Poker and all variations of these games.
          Exp.$/ 100 deposit PLUS 2 x 100 PLUS 2 x $//15 PLUS 2 x $//20 Neteller/Firepay = $//370 in your account.
       2. YOU MUST WAGER an amount equal to the deposit PLUS 5 times the amount of the Bonus  Please note that you cannot wager the bonus by playing the following games: Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Blackjack, Red Dog, Sic Bo, Video Poker, Table Poker and all variations of these games.
          Exp.$// 100 deposited PLUS 5 x $// 100 bonus PLUS 5 x 15 Sign in Bonus PLUS 5 x 20 Neteller/Firepay = $// 775 wagered.
    In other words you're only allowed to play slots. And if you do you will bust out 99% of the times trying to double your money!
    We hope you had as much fun as we did con'ing your money from you :)

    I mean come on. Why not just cancel these kinds of "promotions" - the only thing you're "promoting" is your lust for more money.
    If you're so scared of bonus-hunters - don't do moronic sign-up bonuses. Do some wicked comp program instead!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2005
  6. Apr 20, 2005
  7. Petunia

    Petunia Dormant account

    ** In order for you to withdraw the bonus and the winnings gained, you must wager the bonus at least once. Moreover, you must have in your account at least the amount you originally deposited plus double the bonus amount.

    All games fulfil the wagering requirements for this promotion.
    This promotion does not overlap with any other promotion.

    This promotion is only for the members of our mailing list

    --- are we talking the same promo here? This is the Loyalty promo I got from colo over the weekend.... I don't use bonusses, but surely we cannot be talking about the same thing if what gluten is saying is true?!! Gluten what colo promo are you talking about? **
     
  8. Apr 20, 2005
  9. Gluten

    Gluten Dormant account

    Occupation:
    My Job?
    Location:
    DK
    I'm sorry. I was looking at their new customer sign-up bonus. I have edited my post to reflect this.
     
  10. Apr 20, 2005
  11. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Well actually I took up the Colosseum sign-up bonus in March - deposited $100, got $120 bonus.
    Had to wager $775 & get bank to $370 to withdraw - slots only.
    And I did it! So I must be the 1% :D

    But this so-called 'loyalty bonus' is total pants! :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2005
  12. Apr 27, 2005
  13. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    UK Casino Club

    how about this one, from UK Casino Club. They might be accredited, but their bonus policies are impossible to understand, and they seem to have some unwritten rules as well.

    Very poor show.

    Here's the t&cs they have on their promotions page

    Bonus Transfer
    As you play games with the Bonus Account your betting turnover increases thus fulfils the minimum level of play for this promotion in the Bonus Account.

    All winnings accrued (less the bonus amount) are available to transfer immediately following the completion of the minimum level of play requirement.

    Wagering on Deposit
    Your Play on most Games require a minimum wagered amount of 15 times your initial deposit. The only exceptions are:

    Your Play on Craps, Baccarat and Vegas Strip Blackjack is not counted towards in the Minimum Level of Play requirement.

    If you play any of the Blackjack (except Vegas Strip Blackjack), Roulette, and all Poker games you are required to play 45 times the bonus amount credited to your Bonus Account.
    Wagering on Transferred Amounts
    Your Play on most Games require a minimum wagered amount of 15 times the amount you transfer from your Bonus Account to your Real Account. The only exceptions are:

    Your Play on Craps, Baccarat and Vegas Strip Blackjack is not counted towards in the Minimum Level of Play requirement.

    If you play any of the Blackjack (except Vegas Strip Blackjack), Roulette, and all Poker games you are required to play 45 times the amount you transfer from your Bonus Account to your Real Account


    Confused, I sought out the help to explain things to me.

    Please wait for a site operator to respond.
    You are now chatting with 'Timothy'
    Timothy: Hello, how may I help you today?
    you: hi
    you: i am struggling to understand your promotion rules
    you: can you explain something
    you: If I deposit 125
    Timothy: Sure.
    you: and get 125 in bonus
    you: I then have to wager 45x that 125 on blackjack
    you: and then the bonus amount is transferred to my regular acocunt
    you: where I must wager 45x again
    you: what about my winnings?
    Timothy: Yes. You will need to wager 45 times the amount that you transfer in your real account.
    you: if I win, does tha tget added to my bonus account?
    Timothy: You will also need to wager 45 times in your real account on the deposit that you made.
    you: so do winnings get added/taken away from my bonus account
    you: or from my real account?
    Timothy: You can transfer the winings from your bonus account to your real account.
    you: ok
    Timothy: This can be done once you have met the wagering in your bonus account.
    you: put it this way
    you: I deposit 125
    you: I have 125 in real, 125 in bonus
    you: I then wager 5 on blackjack
    you: my wager wins
    you: do I now have 130 in real
    you: or 130 in bonus?
    Timothy: If you win in your bonus account, the funds stay in your bonus account until you transfer them to your real account.
    you: ok
    you: and if I lost that wager my bonus account will fall to 120 as well?
    Timothy: I'm sorry but could you please clarify your query for me?
    you: if I bet 5 and I lose
    you: does that come from my bonus or my real account
    Timothy: Please understand that your bonus account is different to your account.
    Timothy: If you are playing in your bonus account, then the funds that you are playing with are bonus credits and not the funds that you have deposited.
    you: so first thing I will be playing with the bonus money
    you: until I have met the requirements
    Timothy: Yes.
    you: so if I lose money in meeting the 45x, then it is that amount that will get transferred
    you: I might end up transferring only 100
    Timothy: If you loose your bonus money, then you can not transfer anything to your real acocunt.
    you: even though the original bonus was 125?
    Timothy: You can not transfer the bonus to your real account
    Timothy: You can only transfer the bonus winings to the real account
    you: so if I had not come out ahead in meeting the bonus requirements, that's it
    you: no more wagering required?
    Timothy: If you loose your bonus in your bonus account then yes, you do not have any more wagering in your bonus account. However, you will still need to met the wagering in your real account on the deposit that you make
    Timothy: Your are required to met the wagering requirements on any deposits that you make where you receive a bonus from us.
    you: so first of all am I playing with the bonus?
    you: or with the real account?
    Timothy: You are required to met the wagering requirements in your bonus account and in your real account.
    you: right, but when I sign up and start playing
    you: do I play with the bonus account first, or the real account?
    Timothy: That decision is up to you which account you would like to play in first.
    you: and just to clarify finally, if I have less than 125 in the bonus account, I cannot withdraw anything
    you: the amount I can withdraw is the bonus amount - 125?
    you: minus 125 that is
    Timothy: No. You can only transfer your bonus account winings. So anything over the bonus that you receive.
    you: thanks, I understand now
    Timothy: Not a problem
    Timothy: Is there anything else I can help you with?
    you: that will be all thanks


    So that didn't help me too much, so half an hour later, still scratching my head I try again:

    Please wait for a site operator to respond.
    You are now chatting with 'Kaicee'
    Kaicee: Hello, how may I help you today?
    you: hi
    you: I need a little clarification about your bonus account
    you: if I get a 125 bonus
    you: and I win 200 more in my bonus account
    you: giving me 325
    you: when I transfer to my real account, I can transfer 200
    you: but is the 125 then removed?
    you: or can I continue to try and win more
    Kaicee: You can transfer the entire balance over to your real account or leave some in your bonus account. You just need to meet the wagering requirements in your bonus account before you can transfer over to the real account. You will see these requirements when you log in
    Kaicee: to the bonus account
    you: ok
    you: my understanding is that first I meet the requirements in my real account
    you: which would be 15 or 45x the deposit
    you: and then if I play in my bonus account
    you: any winnings there can be transferred to my real account
    you: and then I have to wager 15 or 45x the transferred amount in my real account
    you: is that correct?
    you: does the wager requirement on the bonus account winnings take place in the real account?
    Kaicee: You have a wagering requirement in your bonus account that you need to meet before you can transfer
    Kaicee: then need to wager the transferred amount in the real account
    Kaicee: and meet all requirements in the real account before cashining in
    you: I am very confused
    you: what is my wagering requirement in my bonus account?
    you: it says Your Play on most Games require a minimum wagered amount of 15 times your initial deposit. The only exceptions are: If you play any of the Blackjack (except Vegas Strip Blackjack), Roulette, and all Poker games you are required to play 45 times the bonus amount credited to your Bonus Account.
    you: so in the first sentence it talks about 15 x my deposit
    you: and in the second it is 45x the BONUS
    you: and secondly in which account do I have to meet that wagering requirement?
    you: is it in the bonus account or in the real account or both?
    Kaicee: It is the same wagering as set for the real account to cashin
    you: let me get this straight. I have 125 deposit
    you: 125 in bonus account, 125 in real account
    you: I play blackjack in real account for 45 x 125
    you: I then wager maybe 300 in the bonus account, and I win 50
    you: can I transfer that 50 to my real account?
    you: and then wager 45x 50 in my real account?
    Kaicee: Once the wagering is met in the bonus account you can transfer any amount over �50
    you: so what wagering do I have to meet in the bonus account, assuming I play blackjack and deposit 125?
    Kaicee: �5625
    Kaicee: Given it is not vegas strip blackjack
    you: so I have to wager 5625 in the bonus account
    you: and then 5625 in the real account as well?
    Kaicee: Yes
    Kaicee: as well as 45x (if you are playing blackjack) on any amount you transfer
    you: and the minimum amount to transfer is 50
    you: is that right?
    Kaicee: Yes
    you: one final thing then
    you: if I have 175 in my bonus account
    you: I can transfer only 50 out of there?
    Kaicee: No, there is no limit
    you: It says 'All winnings accrued (less the bonus amount) are available to transfer immediately following the completion of the minimum level of play requirement.'
    you: doesn't less the bonus amount mean I can only transfer 175 minus the original 125 bonus?
    you: which would be 50
    Kaicee: I apologize, You are correct, I was not aware of this change to the wagering
    you: ok
    you: so if I transferred 50 out of there
    you: would the remaining 125 be removed?
    Kaicee: No
    you: so I can still continue to win more with that remaining money?


    The interesting thing in their terms is

    'Your Play on most Games require a minimum wagered amount of 15 times your initial deposit.
    ...
    If you play any of the Blackjack (except Vegas Strip Blackjack), Roulette, and all Poker games you are required to play 45 times the bonus amount credited to your Bonus Account.'

    First of all you must play 15x the deposit amount.

    But if you play blackjack, roulette or poker, you must play 45 times the BONUS amount.

    So given that they have separate real and bonus accounts, 15x deposit seems to refer to wagering in the real account, and 45x to wagering in the bonus account.

    From what I was told by the first rep it appeared that you have to meet only 45x wagering in the real account, and then whatever you win in the bonus account (which from what I was told didn't appear to have any wagering requirements) over the original bonus amount can be transferred, and you must then wager it 45x in the real account. But the terms and conditions mention 45x wagering the BONUS.

    The second rep indicated to me that you have to in fact wager 45x in the real account, 45x in the bonus account and 45x transferred amount.

    This is certainly not made clear in the casino's promotion page, which are unnecessarily complex and in my view designed to deceive the unsuspecting with '125 match bonus', which in my view has conditions that few people would describe as a 'bonus'. In fact I am still not convinced that what I was told was correct, given that she told me at first that the bonus was not sticky, and didn't realize the bonus policy had changed. In addition, the 50 minimum transfer rule is not stated - again it might be a rule that has changed, but it all reeks of sharp practice, and not something I think casinomeister should be endorsing.

    They look like a decent casino, but the bonus is designed to confuse - if you visit the site, You must register/login in order to see the link., it says in HUGE letters, 125 bonus, play now.

    Clicking on the promotions page, you get You must register/login in order to see the link., and under tell me more, the following page You must register/login in order to see the link..

    It then says * See Terms and Conditions for details relating to this promotion., which links directly to the terms I quoted above.

    So you would reasonably assume that clicking on that link would give you the terms associated with the offer. The page is You must register/login in order to see the link., which is what I have quoted above.

    After my questioning the CS, who seemed to have half a dozen rules that I didn't see posted on the site, I found that in fact they have more terms, buried several levels deep into the site under the contact us page, You must register/login in order to see the link., which is NOT linked or alluded to from the promotions the page above. This page describes the terms and conditions much better, and includes the 50 rule, which casino rep #1 did not bother to tell me about.

    In fact the terms here, while labyrinthine and designed to trick people into thinking that their 125 bonus is of value, are reasonably clear, and are as follows:

    1. You must wager 15x the deposit amount in the real account, or 45x if playing blackjack, poker or roulette
    2. You must wager 15x the bonus amount in the bonus account, or 45x if playing blackjack, poker or roulette
    3. You can only TRANSFER any NET (the final balance less the original balance) profits from the bonus account, and the minimum amount to transfer is 50.
    4. Having jumped through so many hoops already, you must finally wager the transferred amount 15 times, or 45 times if playing blackjack, poker or roulette, in the real account.

    But there would be no way to divine this out from their promotions page, which is deceitful at best, in not making it clear the requirements imposed upon it.

    These guys have to take the prize for worst bonus, with most complex rules and most misleading promotions t&cs page. Poor stuff indeed.

    Bonus? More like a Trojan Horse.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2005
  14. Apr 27, 2005
  15. Thatchatch

    Thatchatch Dormant account

    Location:
    Toronto ON Canada
    Trojan horse

    "...more like a trojan horse"

    Good comparison.

    I made a deposit at BetRoyal, just before the proverbial hit the fan there with their gangsters approach. I was told that bonuses were 'expired' and now that I had deposited I had to roll over 3X my deposit - without a bonus - before considering any withdrawal!

    Unflippin' real.

    Regards.

    Thatch
     
  16. Apr 27, 2005
  17. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Thelawnet, for once I felt sorry for the CS! It's really not that complicated a bonus, though I agree it can be confusing at first and they should do a better job explaining it on their website.

    The money in the bonus account is sticky and you need a minimum of 50 above your starting amount to transfer it, but the bonus remains after that and you can keep trying to transfer more. So potentially you can gamble to high stakes at no risk in the bonus account and transfer a lot of money.

    For that reason a few months ago this group of casinos had easily the best Microgaming bonuses around. I made 4000 from them, as did others. Now that they've upped the wagering requirements and forced you to wager transferred funds again it's much, much less appealing, but the bonus system itself isn't really the problem. I don't think this group of casinos is any more deceitful than other casino groups that advertise sign-up bonuses you usually need to wager on slots.
     
  18. Apr 27, 2005
  19. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    It all sounds complicated until you've played at one of these casinos. Then if you're in the bonus account (not hard to recognise as you enter a different account number to access it) and click on the "Casino Action" button it tells you the wr remaining and the available amount to transfer. If you choose to transfer anything it tells you your new balance in the real account. It's actually a model of clarity, which does make you wonder why they couldn't pay someone competent $100 to write an explanation for their website!
     
  20. Apr 27, 2005
  21. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    I would go a bit further than saying they need to explain it better. If you do what I did, and what I believe anyone would do, which is to visit the site, click on 'Promotions' and then click the link labelled 'terms and conditions', then it is not possible to understand what the requirements are for the bonus. In particular, it omits to mention the 50 minimum transfer, and does not indicate that you must wager 45x the bonus account as well as the reasonably clear requirement to wager 45x the transferred amount.

    Leaving out some vital information is pretty misleading, and there is nothing here to suggest that there are any further terms and conditions relating to promotions that you should read.

    I don't particularly have any problem with the way they structure their bonus, it is really up to them, but the bonus, which by my understanding is a marketing tool to encourage people to sign up, is not properly explained on the page which purports to explain it. This is bad practice.

    The bonus is pretty weak by the way by the standards of any other casino, but it does have some value, it is just that I feel the way that it is setup and not properly described on the page that is supposed to describe it, is designed to deceive the average person .

    You need to wager 45x the deposit amount, at Atlantic City blackjack, which has 0.365% edge. This will cost you 20 on expectation given a 125 deposit and 125 bonus.

    You then need to wager the 125 45 times, aiming to make *at least* 175.

    Again the wagering will cost you 20, so let's assume that you're effectively dealing with a 105 stake. For a given target it seems that your chance of reaching it is then

    105 / target.

    So for instance you would basically have a 50% chance of hitting a 210 target. However, the bonus is 125, so the expected profit is

    (target - 125) * 105 * / target

    So if you set out to make 200 net, then you need to make 325, which you would do roughly 32% of the time. So the bonus will pay out as follows:

    Payout Probability
    200 0.32
    0 0

    In addition, you have to wager that 200 45x on transfer, which will typically devalue the 200 to 167.

    This means that the bonus is worth about 53.44. Given that you will typically lose 20 in the real account, the bonus is worth about 33.44 given super-optimal play.

    Obviously if you make money in the bonus account, you can go back and win more. This time there are no wagering requirements in the bonus account, although there is on the transfer

    You had a 0.32 chance of making it this far, but because there is no wagering requirement, the chance of making it to 325 is better, more like 0.37.

    Again the 200 is typically worth 167 after it has been transferred, so for the second transfer you have 167 * .37 * .32 = 19.77

    Theoretically this could be repeated to infinity, so you can (loosely) model it with an infinite series with first term 19.77 and common ratio of 0.37, giving a sum of 31

    So the bonus is actually worth as much as 64 on expected value, which isn't too bad.

    However, they really need to explain things better so that the unsuspecting punter doesn't get taken for a ride.
     
  22. Apr 27, 2005
  23. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    I agree with you. When they first changed to a system like this one from their genuinely deceptive previous system I did suggest to them on here that they could at least correct the grammar of their explanation. They never bothered, which doesn't say a lot for a group of casinos, though at the time the actual bonuses were very good.
     
  24. Apr 27, 2005
  25. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmistress
    Location:
    The Boonies
    WHAT???? :eek2:

    You didn't get a bonus and you had to wager 3x your deposit to withdraw?

    Now I have really heard it all. :eek:
     
  26. Apr 28, 2005
  27. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Well, I found the casinos description of the wagering requirements much simpler to understand that your reckoning! And frankly, I was a little surprised how long it seemed to take you to grasp the T&C's.

    But that aside, you say there IS value in this bonus. Briefly, I believe you are saying the following (correct me if I'm wrong!):

    You flat bet the bonus on BJ to WR, leaving you with about 80% of it.
    You then risk doubling it all up twice on BJ? :what:
    If you succeed, you transfer profit to Real Account.
    Then you flat bet BJ your profit+deposit x45 with a potential loss of about 20%.

    But if you fail in the bonus account, you still have to do 45xWR on your deposit.
    Did you take that into your calculations?

    Surely, rather than go through all the grief above, you would be better off just depositing 16 without a bonus, double up on 2 hands of BJ, and leave? :D

    Anyway, whichever why you look at it - these bonuses with DOUBLE WR on your bonus/winnings are extremely SILLY!
    Whatever you do, don't get a big win in your bonus account - or you'll be playing it off til Christmas! :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2005
  28. Apr 28, 2005
  29. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Well if you read their page here You must register/login in order to see the link., I think anyone would struggle to understand what is going on.

    That's not strictly true. You want to double up, but not flat betting. The optimal strategy is to aim to reach a given target exactly at the WR. So the more wagering you have left to do, the smaller your wager should be. Near the end if you are not well ahead in your bonus account you should bet big in an effort to reach your target.

    Broadly speaking given that the average loss in betting 45x bonus is 20, you will be effectively doubling up 105 (given a 105 bonus). If you doubled up twice, you have a 1/4 chance of making 420, which is 295 in profit. Given that it is their money, then 1/4 of the time you will make 295, 3/4 of the time you will make nothing. So on average you will withdraw 75 from the bonus account of their money.

    Yes I did. You will lose 20 on average meeting a 45x WR of 125. 20 is less than the expected profit you will make doubling the bonus account, so it means that given correct strategy, you will make money on average.

    Not really mathematically, although it would be more fun. If you do that, since the house has an edge, you will lose money on average - only about 10p, but even so, all play without bonuses at online casinos is negative expectation. As I demonstrated above even given the onerous terms of this bonus, it still has value.

    Well it's actually not that bad, as they have autoplay. And in fact the more money you aim for the higher your expected profit.

    Even with the WR on transfers it's still worth doing. I'd rather win 2000 in my bonus account and have to wager it thru 45x than have zero in my bonus account.
     
  30. Apr 28, 2005
  31. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    That's true! :thumbsup: Once again, I bow to your superior maths knowledge :notworthy

    I have another question to exercise your grey matter:-
    Given that I don't like and don't play Blackjack or Video poker (cos I always lose :( ), are there any other casino games which you could employ with this bonus to benefit to a similar level?
     
  32. Apr 28, 2005
  33. elscrabinda

    elscrabinda Experienced Member PABnorogue PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    jvonsofdmpvs
    Location:
    Oxford
    Not really, the fairly pointless thing of this bonus is that the only way you stand a chance is if you are an out and out bonus abuser.

    Casinos really do have to get a bit more imaginative with their promotions. Why on earth a 'recreational' player would want to commit themselves to this level of wagering is beyond me. Those like thelawnet can see the value and are happy to whack it on autoplay but then thats hardly much fun is it!
     
  34. Apr 28, 2005
  35. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    well this bonus is a pretty crappy one really.... If you need a bonus you must be able to find a better one out there.

    But anyway, the WR is only 15x if you do not play poker games (video poker, 3 card poker), roulette or blackjack.

    If you always lose on video poker or blackjack, I would recommend autoplay ;-).

    You could just play slots, which would reduce the WR to 15x.

    Personally even if you don't like blackjack I would recommend playing it in the real account in order to minimize your edge. Obviously the different microgaming slots vary in HA. Unfortunately this is not documented anywhere. But on average the HA on slots is about 4%. The HA is not hugely significant as the variance is very large, but on average 15 x 4% means you lose 60% of your money. In practice you will win some, lose some.

    A better strategy would be to wager the 45x in the real account first on autoplay blackjack at 1/hand. Even though you don't like blackjack, on average this will be the cheapest way. As mentioned before this, this would cost you around 20

    Then, providing I read the T&Cs correctly, you can play in the bonus account on slots and only have a 15x WR. In doing this you should seek a high amount of variance. So look for games that have a high jackpot, and play on a higher coin size (e.g., rather than playing 9 lines x 5 coins at 10p per coin, rather play 1 line, 5 coins at 2; 9 lines x 5 coins x 2 is probably better still). There are two reasons for this:

    1. firstly, the WR is only 1875, but if you can play 5 on a line you will often bust much sooner, whereas if you had played 1p/line * 1 coin on Ladies Nite, you're very unlikely to bust. If you bust in 500 80% of the time, then you have saved yourself exposure to 1375 of wagering at 4% edge.

    2. secondly, given that it is a sticky bonus, the higher your target the greater your expected value.... In other words, if you aim for 1000, you have basically half the chance of hitting it as you had if you aimed for 500. But since 125 will be deducted from it, then you have a 25% (example probability) chance of making 875, or a 50% chance of making 375.

    When you've won a good amount, transfer it to your real account and wager it through on blackjack autoplay at 1/hand, which will cost 16% of your net win on average.

    So you can treat this as an average of 20 'tax' (in your real account) to play high-risk, high-return slots with the casino's money, without risking your own money. The advantage of the bonus account is that you can play a high-risk, retire-if-it-succeeds, strategy, without exposing your own money to that same degree of risk (as you normally will with sticky bonuses).

    If you hit the jackpot, you can expect to withdraw 84% of it on average by transferring and wagering on blackjack.

    So in summary:
    1. play low risk with money in real account - seek to lose as little as possible
    2. gamble with 125 of their money in bonus account, playing slots and aim for the moon!
    3. transfer that 20,000 jackpot out of bonus account, play low risk again.

    You could play the bonus account first, I don't think it makes a difference, but remember the strategy is to play high coinage in the bonus account, and go for big jackpots. No 1p/line slots here please! I would try something like 3 x 5 coins on High Five, which would pay out 75,000 jackpot, and is a single-line slot. Basically, you want the slot that has the highest bet per line in order to maximize value. You could play multiline like thunderstruck if you prefer it, but it probably has slightly lower EV due to smaller coin size per line and lower variance.

    Let me know if you win big!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2005
  36. Apr 28, 2005
  37. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    I don't think I will be depositing here, but if you spend a couple of hours analyzing it, reading two separate terms and conditions, and then tying up your computer for hours on autoplay you do have a chance.

    Otherwise?

    Forget it.
     
  38. Apr 28, 2005
  39. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    You don't have to 'tie up' your computer!
    Just leave the MG running autoplay in the background while you play a proper bonus at a sensible casino in the foreground! :D
    (Not MG of course - I believe you can't run two at once. Or can you? I've never tried it!)

    Thanks for the great advice thelawnet. :thumbsup:
    I may not try this bonus, but at least now it does not look quite as crap as I first thought.
     

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