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screwed up and need help

Discussion in 'Ask the Meister' started by shanet21, Oct 24, 2003.

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  1. shanet21

    shanet21 Dormant account

    I screwed up and opened an account at playersvegas.com. Shortly after, a friend told me it was a bad site and referred me to your website (I'm new to online sportsbooks). They took my credit card for deposit and I was wondering if I call my credit card and refuse payment if they would have any recourse or if anyone else has tried this without success. Any advise or help is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    I would recommend trying to withdraw your funds instead - and only if for some reason they do not return your funds do you contact your credit card company. Chargebacks not only hurt the operator, they hurt you too because it goes on your bank records - do it too often and your credit card will be closed.

    One should only do a chargeback only under worst case scenarios.
     
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Yes, try and withdraw your funds first. If that doesn't work -- I would recommend a chargeback. This casino is a worst case scenerio, and a number of players have unsuccessfully "closed" their accounts.

    I received a complant yesterday of a player who's owed $19,000. It's really sad seeing these people getting ripped off from this group of casinos. It's even worse seeing [color=ff0000]•[/color][color=ff0000]•[/color][color=ff0000]•[/color][color=ff0000]•[/color][color=ff0000]•[/color][color=ff0000]•[/color][color=ff0000]•[/color][color=ff0000]•[/color] promoting them.

    And I wouldn't worry about being put on any "blacklist" for charging back with these crooks. They would be doing you favor by blocking your account from their merry band of rogues.
     
  4. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

  5. jyde

    jyde Dormant account

    Haha - Directnetpay has told me that it has no affiliation with Goldbetting

    They only share the same laptop. Funking crooks!

    Btw. - if you wonder where they get their players from You must register/login in order to see the link.

    And it's NOT like he hasn't been told there are serious problems with this group of casinos. Once they screw him on his affiliate cut I'm sure he'll blacklist them.
     
  6. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    LOL. This is J. Todd - the guy who's trying to found a new webmaster's association called Association of Professional Casino Webmasters!
     
  7. jyde

    jyde Dormant account

    Yeah almost forgot - the apcw.org - yet another seal for Windows Casino and Magic Oasis ;)
     
  8. integrity

    integrity Dormant account

    It goes against my better judgement to post in a forum about this subject. This is the sort of thing that I cannot win either way... unless I just do what you people tell me to do. So what the heck, let's talk about this group.

    First, these casinos were originally on my site way-back-when as STRICTLY an alternative option for players who were getting their credit cards rejected. They were ment to "hold 'em over" so to speak, while they had their NETeller, FIREpay, or PrePaidATM accounts set-up.

    I had never heard of these guys until a GPWA member brought them to my attention. What happened after I put them on my site? They converted like crazy... to me that ment there were a LOT of players getting credit cards rejected, and it seemed like I was providing a great alternative for them... thus, their promotion.

    Some months ago I heard the first "grumblings" from "players" about this group. I was contacted by a gentleman calling himself "Tortex", who I later learned was a former member of the OPA, just like Mr.Meister here. He told me the story of the player who was owed $3,000 by these guys and asked me to help. I contacted Ted Kennedy who replied almost immediately that this woman was paid via wire transfer $1,500 as agreed to by OPA mediation.

    I contacted Tortex again, at which time he enlightened me that there was, in fact, an agreement for $1,500... but that the casinos never paid... and that NOW they wanted the FULL $3,000.

    I asked how he KNEW this player never got the wire transfer, and he claimed to have seen her bank record...

    I asked if he KNEW she had just one bank account... he said yes, he did...

    I asked how he knew that... well... he just "knew"...

    I asked if I could see a copy of the bank account statement, and PROMISED that if he could produce a statement I would confront Kennedy personally to produce a wire transfer tracking number... Then we could see if a transfer ever took place. Tortex politely refused to produce any bank records...

    I then asked to deal with this player PERSONALLY and not go through Tortex... he refused. I asked "why?"... he stated because she spoke poor English and was a Dane... (BELLS go off in my head)....

    I aske people at GPWA about Tortex and learn that he, too, is a Dane... makes me wonder. So I ask Tortex about the "Dane angle" and he became upset... Mystery grows...

    THEN I see a blood bath at WOL over this subject, with Tortex in the middle. So I watch and wait and listen to what's said. Again, the ONLY player issue discussed here is the $3,000 supposedly owed to this Dane player. I see post after post of "webmasters" and "players" bashing these casinos. When I check the information on their posts, what do I see? That 70% of the people doing the bashing signed up in the last week or two... and that these were their only posts in the whole forum. Hmmm...

    Now, I have been promoting these guys a good long while. And I am probably one of the more accessable webmasters on the web... ever try getting in touch with Shaun? Jason? Or anyone else at a portal (with the notible exception of Mr.Meister, again)? I have sent almost 100 players to three of these casinos this year... and I have NOT received ONE COMPLAINT. Not a one.

    Jyde - FYI, I have dropped many a casino that was paying me well and on-time. Do not confuse my ethics with other webmasters moral vacancies.

    Jetset - The APCW never makes a claim to be any sort of ethical organization. If you bothered to read the site you'd see that. The APCW is a tool to track casino performance and accuracy of their webmasters stats... I don't care if a member wants to promote CasinoBar... that's THEIR business... but it seems everyone on message boards like this REALLY likes getting their nose into others business.}
     
  9. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Boy, are you out of touch with what these bozos are really pulling - and there is more than ample evidence to back up Jyde's statement above - I've seen it and it implicates Wager 21, Directnetpay and these casinos. I believe it is also documented elsewhere on this site.

    BTW Jyde is a tireless mediator who has managed to get many, many players of all nationalities paid without reward of any kind for himself.

    As to your not getting any complaints, perhaps you should take the time to look at this board (a real watchdog webmaster) and WOL - you'll find a few and they are certainly not all Danes.

    I read the copy on your new association very thoroughly btw - I am well aware that its goal is not to assist players, nor did I say it would.

    There are a number of people on this and other good boards who try to help players who have been stiffed and ask for assistance. That's not "sticking their noses into other people's business" as you put it - that's trying to get fair dealing from questionable casinos.
     
  10. integrity

    integrity Dormant account

    Jetset,

    You can clearly see I never called Jydes mediation prowess into question. I'm sure he's a great mediator...

    I, however, am a businessman. I go by what I see, and my experience shows no complaints and over $40,000 in deposits this year... that's a lot of cash from unhappy players who keep depositing money.

    I have tested this casino group and played there myself. I had several buddies of mine play there, too... all found what I did: Easy to deposit... easy to withraw... Easy to play. My friend in Texas cashed out a couple hundred and has a check in ten days.

    The main posters here are the same posters I see at WOL, so cookie-cutter something else for me. Most posts look suspect to me in regard to this group, and at risk of making a silly pun, something smells rotten in Denmark.

    So why me? Why do you people always focus on my portal? Go after CasinoCashJourney... Go after GreedyHog... Go after Gambling.com for the love of gawd. They all deliver more hits to GoldBetting than I do. What has you hung up on me?

    And while you answer that, show me some of this evidence. Post something solid. I am always just supposed to take your word and happily do what you reccommend... *blah blah blah*

    And by the way... wanna triumph a cause? Get CasinoProphet to pull his StarLucks advertising.
     
  11. tortex

    tortex Dormant account

    Hi Todd.

    First of all I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that the Mrs. Haagen was paid $1500 in August 2003 after Casinomeister asked Mr. Hamilton from Goldbetting to look into her case. He claimed the wire he "sent" last December had been "returned" and he hadn't noticed until Casinomeister brought it to his attention :lolup:

    As for the rest of your post I think you should reread the mails I sent you - I don't like how you make me sound kind of shady with a second agenda.

    1. You learned "later" I was an ex OPA guy?

    2. I told you a "story" about $3000 being owed to a player and it wasn't until the casino brought it up I enlightened you about the deal on $1500

    3. I just "knew" she didn't have other bank account.....??? WTF?

    4. I politely refused to produce any bank records...

    5. Uuuuuuuh - I'm a Dane and your "whistle" go off and I get upset. I participate in a bloodbath on WOL.

    6. I refused to let you deal with the player directly

    7. You never heard of any other disputes than the $3000 with the Danish player.

    [color=ff0000]1. You learned "later" I was an ex OPA guy?
    2. I told you a "story" about $3000 being owed to a player and it wasn't until the casino brought it up I enlightened you about the deal on $1500[/color]

    Yeah - you learned I was ex OPA like a fraction of a second after opening the very first email from me. It's in the freakin first sentence I ever wrote you. This is a copy of my first attempt to contact you. It also addresses #2 about me not "enlightening" you about the deal for $1500.

    [color=0000ff]----- Original Message -----
    From: Tortex
    To: This email is not visible to you.
    Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 1:01 AM
    Subject: Goldbetting


    Hi

    I'm Tortex - used to be part of the OPA committee. Back then I dealt with a couple of complaints on the Goldbetting/Ladydream group.

    From your posts at Bet2gamble I understand you have sent some customers his way - and I was wondering if he would listen to what you say. I've tried contacting him again the last couple of days - without luck.

    As mentioned on Bet2gamble there are some unsolved disputes from November. One of them was a danish women Mrs. Haagen - elder, doesn't speak english and this was her first onlinegambling experience ever. She made a ton of deposits - but when she started winning the problems began. She was owed around 3000 - but we made a deal for half - and he promised to pay her. He was supposed to send her a wire - but it never showed up and he stopped answering mails. It was the player that suggested half of what she was owed - and since I could see the complaints piling up - i considered it to be OK.

    The player would be extremely grateful if you would give it a try. Please let me know what you think.

    Regards
    Tortex[/color]

    [color=ff0000]3. I just "knew" she didn't have other bank account.....??? WTF?[/color]
    We discussed bankaccounts and statements when Hamilton/Kennedy (whatever) claimed the wire was sent as promised. I said it was easy to prove she never received it. If received it should be in her accountstatement - which it wasn't. You said we wouldn't know if she had other bankaccounts - I said "...Doesn't matter how many banks she has. He was given bankname, address, accountnumber. That's the bank it should show up in..."
    The only place you would look for the wire is in the "sending" bank or "receiving" bank. 9 months later it turns out I was right. It never left his bank.

    [color=ff0000]4. I politely refused to produce any bank records... [/color]
    Not true. I forwarded you statements from October to January. Here's the email:

    [color=0000ff]----- Original Message -----
    From: Tortex
    To: This email is not visible to you.
    Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 1:09 AM
    Subject: Fw: Goldbetting


    Hi

    I received some screenshots from her internetbank - covering late October until January 3. She sent everything - you can see all her transactions. Check out all VDK USD 20,00 transactions. It means $20 charged on VISA - converted to danish kronerrs. Doesn't look like a bonusabuser to me. xxxxxxxxxx (edited something out - Todd will understand if he checks the original mail)

    If you want to find the $1500 wire - you're looking for an amount around 11.400 danish kroner in the "Belb" column (belb = amount). The exchange rate back then was around 7,60DKK for 1 USD.

    You can contact xxxx Hagen on xxxxxx - she'll have her daughter help with the english.

    Regards
    Tortex[/color]

    She didn't have paperstatements and I asked you in an earlier mail to get a date for the transfer from Goldbetting: [color=0000ff]I'll get some accountstatements from her. Could you please ask Mr Kennedy when exactly he sent the wire. If she don't keep her statements she'll have to ask the banks for new ones - and they'll probably charge her. If he sent it in December there's no reason for getting a November statement.[/color]
    Mrs. Haagen didn't have any paperstatements - and I didn't get any feedback on the screenshots from her internetbank.

    [color=ff0000]5. Uuuuuuuh - I'm a Dane and your "whistle" go off and I get upset[/color]
    All my emails to you were sent from This email is not visible to you.
    In your VERY first reply to me on May 20 you asked if the thing with her being Danish could be part of the problem. I wrote you a very long email on May 20 - to long to be posted here I think - about the Danish issue. I wasn't upset at all - just trying to explain. As for Mrs Hagens case I specifically said: [color=0000ff]Danish issue:
    The fact that she was danish was never a problem and never discussed. OPA received three complaints - one from Mrs. Haagen and two from US-players. I've never seen or heard of other complaints from Danish players.[/color]

    Later that day I sent you an email with all the info on the case. It was sent after the Danish issue was brought up - yet I think I sound friendly and grateful. Btw. in this email I mention that I corrspond with Mrs Hagen in Danish

    [color=0000ff]----- Original Message -----
    From: Tortex
    To: This email is not visible to you.
    Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 12:04 AM
    Subject: Re: Goldbetting

    Hey J

    Attached you find a document on xxxx Hagens case. There are something on the other guys too of course.

    There's a lot of other correspondence between me and xxxx Haagen - but it's in danish so I didn't copy that in. There were also emails from me to the casino - but he never replied - so I didn't copy them either. It was mails sent in late November and December. Basically just trying to make him respond to me or xxxx Haagen or the sportsbetter.

    The mails are following the timeline/in correct order. When looking in the document the dates can look a bit confusing - but I believe it's because of the big timedifference and the fact that the mails shows when it was sent "his time" - not when it was received "my time". Just a technicality. They're in the correct order - and there's quite a few where he acknowledges the deal with xxxx Hagen - and that he intends to pay her. Feel free to see if you can make him pay the total amount owed - or at least more than $1500. When they made the deal on $1500 he was supposed to send the money right after - which he didn't. So you could argue the deal was off and she wants to get paid in full.

    If you have problems reading the document - let me know if you want it in another format.

    Have fun and thanks again.

    Regards
    Tortex[/color]

    In this mail I also brought up the fact that in all fairness you could argue he should pay the full amount. They made a deal on half - IF he paid her ASAP. He didn't - so.....

    You make the whole thing about me being a Dane sound so shady. And you make it sound like SOMEONE ELSE told you I'm a Dane - and that you confront me with this and I get upset. Excuse me Mr. Todd - but that's a load of bullshit.
    - I sent email from my Danish emailaddress
    - In my second email to you I write "....Besides - I work in one of the largest Danish banks - and I've had it confirmed in our own bank and by contacts in other Danish banks....."
    - In my third email I reveal that I correspond with the player in Danish!!!!

    But your "whistle" didn't go of until someone from GPWA told you I was a Dane??? :crazy:

    Btw. the "bloodbath" on WOL didn't take place until months later. So you're wrong about that one too.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    [color=ff0000]6. I refused to let you deal with the player directly[/color]

    Bullshit. It may be hard to believe but there are people who don't speak English. Besides I think her emailaddress was in at least half the emails I sent you + I wrote this in an email on May 29 - after you asked to deal with her directly: "....You can contact xxxx Hagen on This email is not visible to you. - she'll have her daughter help with the english."

    [color=ff0000]7. You never heard of any other disputes than the $3000 with the Danish player.[/color]
    I gave you a description of all OPA cases we had. They were mixed into the emails with Mrs. Hagens case + I commented on them in an email on May 20

    I also sent you a link to Casinomeisters webcast when he dealt with them.

    You ask why everyone is picking on you instead of Gambling.com etc. - well I can't speak for everyone else but I thought you were one of the good guys. I wouldn't waste bandwith on writing emails to gambling.com about their shady advertisers.

    Bottomline is....what's the bottomline? You're trashing me to defend yourself?

    (Message edited by Tortex on October 25, 2003)
     
  12. integrity

    integrity Dormant account

    Tortie ol' boy get your panties untied and step back.

    1) I conceed that I do not perfectly recall the timetable of these events. You see, it was almost 6 months ago and I do not save emails for that long and re-read them... Happily, you do. So "2 points" for you...

    2) No one is trashing you. On the other hand, people seem to take great pleasure in trashing me... and that's ok. I knew when I posted here I was stepping into the arena of the "Omnipotent Players Advocacy Gawds" and anything I said would be sneared at... unless, of course, I just bow down and tell you all how sorry I am for ever forming my own naive, uneducated opinions. I should just listen to all that's said in here and take it as Gospel truth from the King James...

    3) When you add it all up, Tortie, it DID look suspicious... damned suspicious. My "whisle" went off only AFTER a week of 3 to 4 emails a day with you pressuring me to take up your cause... only AFTER I learned you and the player were both Danes... only AFTER you never produced evidence... only AFTER you wouldn't give me her email address... It was suspicious. But, again, at that time I didn't know your were part of the Mediators League of Justice.

    4) What did you think my little PR3 site was going to accomplish that the OPA could not? And I'm happy Bryan solved the issue... Guess he has more clout that OPA did...

    5) Want to talk bullshit? (I noticed you like that word a lot) How about your claim to have sent me a bank statement. That's more than bullshit, tho... it's an outright lie.

    6) Bottomline is....what's the bottomline? Lets surmise: A) Not my issue, but I gave it a try... B) I had no idea who YOU were... C) I had no evidence this player even existed... D) Three to four emails a day from you, pushing me & pushing me to drop my business and work on yours... E) Nothing I did was adequate, and the answers I gave you were not what you wanted to hear...

    I'm very glad you all have this much time to sit around and police my business since I'm so freekin' stupid... problem is, you only THINK I'm a dumbass. I see the forst for the trees... and what goes on is the thumbscrews go to the webmasters to put the presure on the casinos you guys deem "rogue" in hopes to achieve whatever the agenda d'jour is. It's a lovely tactic, really...

    It seems that you guys are so very much sharper than I am, so I think maybe you should just send me emails telling me who to promote and what to say about then. That way, I can conduct myself in such a way as not to offend anyone.

    And Tortex, as far as the rest of your post... it's just like the email barrage you sent me way back then... Too much... Too much... Just can't read it all...
    (Message edited by integrity on October 25, 2003)

    (Message edited by integrity on October 25, 2003)
     
  13. linda7

    linda7 Quit Gambling

    Tortex, allow me, if you will, to address Mr. integrity (a word of which he is unaware of the definition).

    Todd, you call yourself a businessman? If this is indeed the case, why do you find it impossible to post like a gentleman? Your posts have basically offended many people on this forum and I take that personally.

    Tortex addressed you in a kind manner, yet you felt compelled to insult him from the first line of your post. This leads me to believe that Tortex pushed a few buttons within you, causing you to be extremely defensive. Having said this, I put my money on Tortex as being the one with "integrity". Now you can run back to your portal and keep endorsing those crooked casinos.

    By the way, I just cant help myself, so I will leave you with this....remove the knot from your dick and take some spelling courses. (Thats what you get for insulting this board, you piece of crap).
     
  14. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Tortex, you're clearly wasting your time with this "businessman" who seems to believe that there's some sort of conspiracy involved in assisting others and will not even bother to read the facts you have produced. "Too much... Too much... Just can't read it all..." Perhaps more like too much truth.

    And the suggestion that he is being "picked on," is regarded as a "dumbass" or that you had some ulterior motive is plain silly.

    Like you, I'm disappointed - I too thought he was one of the better guys.

    But this sideshow is getting us off topic....

    (Message edited by jetset on October 25, 2003)
     
  15. integrity

    integrity Dormant account

    The only person wasting his time is me... trying to get through to the moral minority here.

    Yea, Linda, whoever the hell YOU are, Tortex was REAL professional and addressed my in a kind manner. Let's quote this "professional":

    "...It's in the freakin first sentence I ever wrote you..."

    "...that's a load of bullshit. ..."

    "Bullshit. It may be hard to believe..."

    But hey, thanks for popping your itty-head in and assuming I gave a rats ass what you think. If I need your opinion in the future I'll call your house & ask your mom to put you on the phone.

    Oh, and by the way moron, I've had several complaints this year on Club Dice Casino, and I now DEMAND the everyone on here BLACKLIST them... do it.... DO IT!

    Jetset I thought YOU had some sense. You & Jyde were having a grand ol' time bad mouthing me until I popped in, so don't act lily white.

    -------------------

    Ya know why I get so pissed off? All of you just stop thinking of how to be insulting and holier-that-thou one damned minute and reverse the situation:

    Here I sit running my business a few months ago when I get an email from someone I've never heard of, telling me about a player that isn't mine, bringing me an issue I'm not involved in... and guess what? I tried to help out, but everytime I spoke to the casino about something that wasn't my business, I got answers that Tortex didn't like. So now I am in the middle of this fight and I don't have any idea who's telling the truth.

    The player was Dane... So there's a reputation... right or wrong that's the reality. So Tortex is a Dane, I can deal. I don't care WHAT he says, he NEVER gave me that players email address, and he NEVER gave me a bank record. End of discussion.

    So here we are again: Just believe whatever you people say like you have your ear to Jesus and forget my own experiences. Talk about a self-righteous bunch.

    If building my own opinions based on my own experiences INSTEAD of listening and blindly following you guys makes me a "bad guy" then fine.

    I knew it was a mistake to even talk to you people, so go on and say whatever you like I'm though with you all. I should be like Casino Cash Journey, GambleHouse, and CasinoProphet... just run my business and not give two farts about anything or anyone. Yet still, I try to explain things KNOWING I'll get bashed... You all don't disappoint... thanks.

    Put me as a prostitute portal... bash me all over the web... Say bad things about my mother... whatever helps the group grow closer and feel like they are enlightened above the rest of us. Just get the links right when you do, I need the traffic.

    Did I misspell anything Lindi-lou? Good to see you have another hobby.
     
  16. rowmare

    rowmare Dormant account

    Kids, don't make me stop the car!

    Now, go to your rooms, and don't come out until you can play nice!

    :cheers:
     
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    That's quite an outburst, Integrity.

    But please, instead of flailing around at everyone...just do a little research on these Wager21 / Goldbetting / Directnetpay guys that you defend so passionately.

    You might start right here at Casinomeister and just look at the facts - the webmaster here has posted a link in this thread.
     
  18. rowmare

    rowmare Dormant account

    WTF?
    I've seen two people being viciously and needlessly attacked in this forum in the past week.
    Now, I don't have all the facts, and maybe I'm stepping in it, but it would seem that integrity is only trying to help. I'm not even offering an opinion. I just want to say that certain people are behaving very immaturely.
    I was extremely offended by the treatment (and, blast it i can't find the thread), of a poor portal owner who thought he was being polite by not "spamming" this forum, and had offered his help to some woman gambler. It was disgusting. Chill out, you guys, please!
    WTF?
    Although...it does make for some interesting reading.
     
  19. linda7

    linda7 Quit Gambling

    Integrity...now that you threw your tantrum, just as I knew you would...pop some prozac and get a grip.

    The only moron on this thread is YOU!!!
     
  20. linda7

    linda7 Quit Gambling

    THIS IS WHAT "INTEGRITY" DID TO ME: READ EMAIL

    Subj: User Account Activation Key
    Date: 10/25/03 2:29:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
    From: This email is not visible to you.
    To: This email is not visible to you.
    Sent from the Internet (Details)



    You recently changed your e-mail address on this discussion board. To verify this e-mail change, you are receiving this message with an activation key. This activation key must be entered to confirm your e-mail address before you can post messages or receive e-mail notification. Here is the information you need:

    Username: integrity
    E-mail Address: This email is not visible to you.
    Activation Key: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

    You can enter your activation key by logging in to edit your profile using the following URL:

    http://casinomeister.comXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Enter your username and password to log in. Enter the activation key under your e-mail address as prompted.

    If you have no idea what this message is about, then someone changed their e-mail address to yours. If you wish to report this to the administrator of the discussion board, please visit the following URL and forward this entire message to one of the listed contacts.


    ----------------------------------------
    67.168.20.65


    (Message edited by casinomeister on December 05, 2003)
     
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