RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

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mary

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
To recap:

*Hampton lied about detecting a robot.
*Delano lied about forbidding robot play in their terms.

I'm waiting for Delano's explanation of how they detected robot play. I think Dr. Who is involved as a consultant on both robots and time travel.

So much creativity being expended on doing the wrong thing. Pirate was willing to accept the (to me ridiculous) six years of installment payments. His win is fabulous publicity for the game and the software. Casinos keep saying that "we love winners" because the business they bring in offsets the expense of paying them.

If that is true, Montana SA could pay him from their percentage received from all licensees and use him fully in their advertising. That shouldn't be too painful spread out over six years!

RTG should pull the plug on Hamptons and Delano for their conduct not only embarassing to the casinos in question, but for the allegations they have made against the integrity of RTG's software.
 

kniepm

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
What a difference a month makes! Ive been too busy for the past three weeks doing legitimate work to check in with the Casinomeister. I took a break on Tuesday to check the forums and, for the last three days, Ive been too busy catching up on the PC21 saga to do any work. (Sorry boss, Ill come in on Saturday.)

Lots of great posts here: free, open debate of a topic that hits very close to home to most (if not all) online players. Bryan, your handling of this situation not only proves a high level of integrity but also that you are able to keep an open mind. Not to mention patience as you continued to tell PC21 to chill out and he couldnt stop himself from destroying his own case. You are a dude of highest character (with oak leaf clusters).

My two cents: PC21 made a killing and Hamptons and Delanos (and others) are trying to weasel out from under devastating, yet legitimate, losses. If theres a lesson here Ill take away, its to keep a low profile. How far ahead would PC21 be today had he not decided to tell the world how he had plundered the casinos for all the booty? (Arrrgh, indeed matey.) I know the rush you feel after a big win (not to the tune of $1.3M), so I can understand his wanting to tell the world how he beat the casinos senseless. I was shocked to see at the beginning of this thread how PC21 insisted on consistently stepping on your own saber with his ill considered posts and poorly executed ruse to lure information from the casinos by admitting to breaking their posted rules.

Seems to me the basis for this dispute and most other disputes you see involving online gaming is the lack of trust. The players dont trust the casinos and the casinos dont trust the players (especially those able to cash-out winnings). The sad part is that both the operators and the players have experience that causes each to be wary of the other. In my experience, any time Ive had a win over $500 Ive held my breath until the money was safely deposited in my checking account. (Maybe Ill take a quick sigh when I see an increase in my NETeller balance, but Im still waiting for them to disappear with my deposits. {I have no reason for this fear, Im just paranoid of faceless strangers handling my money.}) Ive had to fight and make repeated 2:00 a.m. phone calls to casino managers to collect winnings and have been screwed by the old bonus abuser label (all at RTG casinos). I have accounts at dozens of casinos and can think of only one that I feel I can be reasonably confident will pay me my winnings on any given occasion. Its pretty sad that the gamble isnt playing the tables or slots, its requesting a withdrawal.

When you find yourself in such a situation, you find the odds staggeringly against you. First, the casino has the best lever, they are holding your money; its their call whether they are going to release or not. Second, the average person, having graduated at least 4th grade, has a hard enough time filing a complaint in their local small claims court, let alone going against a casino operator working from a spider hole in some third-world country.

PC21, it may be quite a fight to ever see another penny from your plunders but I wish you all the luck in the world. I truly hope read one day that the blaggard either pay in full or sink to the bottom as a result of their misdeeds.
 

sirius

Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Location
UK
I'm sure this has already come out but isn't Delanos related to Winward (these are already dumped in my forum): Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I wouldn't be surprised if they had carried over the 'no robot rule' term because Winward used to use unified gaming too.
 

jyde

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
sirius said:
I'm sure this has already come out but isn't Delanos related to Winward (these are already dumped in my forum): Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I wouldn't be surprised if they had carried over the 'no robot rule' term because Winward used to use unified gaming too.
Would make sense if Delano had the same rule from the beginning. They didn't.
 

sirius

Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Location
UK
I'm not so sure at the moment that they changed the rules after the Pirate played. It would be a bit stupid to do that. People mentioned they didn't have the rule recently but maybe they didn't check the terms properly. So is it known that they changed the rules after he played or was the change before then?

It's not very relevant though because they have no proof he used a robot and RTG claims most of their sites welcome robot play so it seems just an excuse to void his winnings.
 
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portia

Dormant account
Joined
May 2, 2002
Sirius : Believe Cmeister and co. checked the Delano terms early in this controversy. Maybe he could comment?
 

mary

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
Delano's site of june 2003 said:
Delano Casino reserves the right to cancel your membership at any time without notice. Any balance in your account will be immediately credited back to your credit card or sent to you by check. In addition, Delano Casino reserves the right, in its total discretion, to void any winnings and withhold any balance in your Casino account under any of the following circumstances.
a. If the name on your Casino account does not match the name on the credit card(s) used to deposit money into the account.
b. If you provide false and or misleading information used to open your Casino account.
c. If you are not of legal age in the jurisdiction where you reside.
d. If you reside in a jurisdiction, where law prohibits the use and participation of such games.
e. If you have allowed or permitted (purposely or not) another party to play on your Casino account.
f. If you have reversed or charged back any of your purchases on your Casino account.
g. You are allowed ONLY ONE ACCOUNT. Winnings will only be paid to players having ONE account. If you have more than one account, all winnings and bonuses will be VOID.
h. If you are found cheating or if it is determined by Delano Casino that you have used a system or machine, be, it an additional computer, additional software or otherwise used to circumvent the natural randomness of our systems.
i. The name on the casino account does not match the name of the beneficial owner of the financial instrument used to make the deposit or withdrawal.

You will all note no mention of "robots" and machine play is disallowed only if it circumvents the natural randomness--that is, somehow messes up the game's result distribution.

Merely automating play, or speeding it up, does not meet these conditions.

Delano's site of june 2003 said:
I'd like to see a record of my gameplay, is this available anywhere?
Yes, complete records of the entire gameplay history for your account can be obtained by contacting customer service.

Ohkay..... interestingly, unlike Hampon's, Delano had no maximum limit on withdrawals back in June.

Delano's site of june 2003 said:
Withdrawal Guidelines:
click here for deposit options

In order to help you redeem your funds from your Delano Casino account in a fast and accurate matter please make sure that you are aware of the withdrawal policies at Delano Casino.


Withdrawal requests are processed at Delano Casino only on Monday's. Customers are entitled to only one withdrawal request per week. Withdrawal requests must be received by 11:59 p.m. Sunday in order to be processed on Monday. Any multiple withdrawal requests will be declined. The first withdrawal request that enters our system will be the payout processed for that week. We cannot modify any withdrawal requests for higher amounts of money. Please make sure you enter the correct amount of money you wish to redeem from your account.
Withdrawal Guidelines:

NOTE: Before we will send out a large withdrawal check or a Bank Wire ($800.00 USD or more) we MUST have on file a SIGNED & Notarized credit card authorization form (get a copy from support@delanocasino.com) and photocopies of a valid government-issued picture ID card (driver's license, passport, etc.), a copy of your credit card billing statement and a copy of a utility bill (phone, electric, gas) with your name and address as it appears on your credit card billing statement and your Delano Casino account. This is to verify that we are sending the winnings to the correct person. If you supplied this information when you made your DEPOSITS, we already have it on file and you will not be required to send it again.

Withdrawal Procedures:

Log into your Delano Casino account with your Account Name and Password. Once you have logged in click on the Cashier button on the top of your screen. Once connected to the Cashier click on the withdraw money button. Type in the amount of your withdrawal and choose the delivery method on the scroll down menu.

Banking: Withdrawals


Withdrawal Guidelines:

In order to help you redeem your funds from your Delano Casino account in a fast and accurate matter please make sure that you are aware of the withdrawal policies at Delano Casino.
Withdrawal requests are processed at Delano Casino only on Monday's. Customers are entitled to only one withdrawal request per week. Withdrawal requests must be received by 11:59 p.m. Sunday in order to be processed on Monday. Any multiple withdrawal requests will be declined. The first withdrawal request that enters our system will be the payout processed for that week. We cannot modify any withdrawal requests for higher amounts of money. Please make sure you enter the correct amount of money you wish to redeem from your account.
NOTE: Before we will send out a large withdrawal check, NETeller Transfer or a Bank Wire ($800.00 USD or more) we MUST have on file a SIGNED & Notarized credit card authorization form (get a copy from support@delanocasino.com) and photocopies of a valid government-issued picture ID card (driver's license, passport, etc.), a copy of your credit card billing statement and a copy of a utility bill (phone, electric, gas) with your name and address as it appears on your credit card billing statement and your Delano Casino account. This is to verify that we are sending the winnings to the correct person. If you supplied this information when you made your DEPOSITS, we already have it on file and you will not be required to send it again.
Withdrawal Procedures:

Log into your Delano Casino account with your Account Name and Password. Once you have logged in click on the Cashier button on the top of your screen. Once connected to the Cashier click on the withdraw money button. Type in the amount of your withdrawal and choose the delivery method on the scroll down menu.

When processing withdrawal requests payments are made by first crediting the maximum amount possible to the Credit Card(s) or FirePay accounts. We will credit the withdrawal amount back to that same charge account provided that the credit amount does not exceed the TOTAL amount charged to Delano Casino. We will credit back in the exact same order and amount the deposits were made to your Casino account. To withdraw winnings over and above your total deposits, we must send the additional funds to you by NETeller transfer, Bank Check or Bank Wire. For example, if you wanted to withdraw $1,000 and you had deposited a total of only $500 by credit card, we would first credit $500 to your charge account, then send you the remaining $500.00 USD via our payout option methods. For bank checks the amounts between $50.00 USD to $249.00 USD will be sent via Registered Mail and amounts over $250.00 USD will be sent via FedEx/DHL courier. The minimum amount required to send a Bank Wire transfer is $500.00 USD. We will need the name of your bank, the address for your bank, the name on the bank account, the ABA or SWIFT number and account number to complete a bank wire transfer.




Withdrawal Fees:

If it is the first time you are redeeming funds from your Delano Casino account you will be required to cover the fees involved on the withdrawal transfer. After your first withdrawal request has been processed and you have already covered the fees, Delano Casino will cover the fees on your next withdrawal. Customers are entitled to ONE FREE withdrawal request per 30 days.

The fees any additional withdrawals processed within 30 days are:


Credit Backs: FREE
Neteller: 2-4 days FREE
Registered Mail: Two weeks or more delivery $25.00 USD
Bank Check FedEx/TNT: 3-4 business days for delivery $45.00 USD
Bank Wire: 2-3 business days
$60.00 USD


Registered Mail Bank checks for amounts lower than $50.00 USD will pay a $25.00 USD service charge fee.

Correct Contact Information:

We must confirm your physical address and telephone number before sending funds via NETeller, FedEx/TNT, Registered Mail or Bank Wire.


All accounts must have a correct valid contact phone number listed in their account information. Use of an invalid phone number is grounds for forfeiture of any and all winnings.


You may confirm your address and telephone number by calling our toll free number 1-800-274-7345 or by replying to the confirmation email once you submit a redemption request. However, the information you provide us with MUST match your account information, otherwise your redemption request will be void and all your winnings forfeit.


Please make sure we have your correct email address registered in your Casino account. This is for transferring funds via Neteller and in order for you to receive a confirmation email once your withdrawal request has been processed.
Credit Card Authorization and Affidavit Forms:
Click here for Credit Card Authorization Form (Word .doc format)
Click here for Credit Card Authorization Form (text format)




Withdrawals for MasterCard deposits:

If your original deposit was made with a MasterCard, due to an ongoing policy MasterCard shares with Online Gaming merchants we are not able to issue any credit backs to a MasterCard. However, we will issue the funds either via NETeller or Bank Check. In any case in which the withdrawal amount is of $500.00 USD or more over the original deposit amount, the Casino player will be responsible to provide Delano Casino with a signed Credit Card Authorization Form.

Click here for MasterCard Authorization Form (Word .doc format)
Click here for Master Card Authorization Form (text format)


Please contact support@delanocasino.com for the MasterCard Credit Card Authorization form.


This form must be signed and include the exact Credit Card Number used to make your purchase at Delano Casino, the name on the Credit Card and the expiration date. This form must be sent to us either as an attachment via email to Delano Casino or faxed to the following numbers:

Efax: 1-703-991-8879 or (506) 293-1435.

Contact Us:

If a customer for some reason is unhappy with any purchase at Delano Casino please contact the Customer Support Staff at support@delanocasino.com . If you decide to dispute any of your purchases and place a charge back, Delano Casino will bring this issue directly to the Online Authorization Department where the customer will be banned and sent directly to the negative database list which is shared with all Online Casino's . This will blacklist the customer and prevent them from playing on ALL online Casinos in the future. Additionally, the customer must take into consideration that their Credit Rating can be affected. In order to avoid such situation IT IS VERY important to contact us via email or calling our toll free number: 1-800-274-7345. This way we can handle the issue directly.
If you have any questions regarding your withdrawal request or any of the above policies feel free to contact us anytime. Please call our toll free number 1-800-274-7345 or send us an email to: support@delanocasino.com




2003 Delano Casino. Metagalaxia, S.A. Suite 2B,
Mansion House 143 Main Street, Gibraltar
All rights reserved.
 

mary

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
This was not on the Dealno site in une of 2003.

Delano's present site said:
All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by Delano Casino on our Web pages. Any Internet wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot" player, is strictly forbidden. In the event that use of non-approved client software is detected, Management reserves the right to invalidate all such wagers retroactively, cancel the player's account, or take any other appropriate action.

This one still is.

Delano's present site said:
I'd like to see a record of my gameplay, is this available anywhere?
Yes, complete records of the entire gameplay history for your account can be obtained by contacting customer service.
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
I notice attempts at sites with rather less integrity than Casinomeister to deflect / sidetrack this issue with claims about "lack of evidence".

Small reminder:

Hampton's are attempting to void Pirate's $1,300,000 because they claim he used a "robot".

a) They have entirely failed to provide ANY evidence of robot play.
b) They initially attempted to invent a story about "mouse mapping" as an aspect of said evidence(?). RTG themselves squashed that one right here. I quote: The software has no built-in ability to record mouse movements and report that type of activity in any way. Hampton apparently dropped the claim at this point :).
c) They are REFUSING to supply the game logs, in spite of specifically stating on the web site that the "audit trail" IS readily available upon request. I quote: For your added protection we maintain a complete audit trail of each transaction for all the games that you play. At your request we would be pleased to make these files available to you at your request. One can therefore only assume that inspection of the game logs would entirely exonerate the player, otherwise why else withhold them?
d) The casino managers attempts to elicit a confession from the player would be grounds in the view of several legal-eagles here for a case of criminal conspiracy / entrappment.

Yes, there is a serious lack of evidence. But the lack is at the casino end, not the player. The casino has failed to provide ANY evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the player. The evidence they HAVE attempted to provide has been discounted by RTG themselves.

The fact is, Hampton are not voiding these winnings on the basis of player-wrongdoing. If there WAS this evidence, they would have brought it to light. They havent. It doesnt exist. Theyre voiding the winnings because they chose to and believe its their entitlement.
 

portia

Dormant account
Joined
May 2, 2002
AND

e) There site boasts bogus payout%, certified by Michael Shackleford of the Wizard of Odds as based on "actual payments", who also happens to be the designer of the Carib21 game
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Good post, reminding everyone of the real facts (as opposed to deliberate digressions) on this case, Caruso.

A new storm is brewing in the 911 forum following a single paragraph which appeared (unsourced) on their news page today implying that the player in this case faces other (unspecified) problems.

This has rightly started something of a storm, and in the absence of any substance one has to consider whether this is not an attempt to smear the player in this case. After all, several dirty tricks have already featured in this matter.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Just an update so everyone knows where I stand on this.

At my first listening to the recordings of Brian confessing to the use of a robot, I believed this is what I heard - a confession. But after looking at all of this (threads, emails, etc.), I do NOT think a robot was used. RTG has publicly stated that their software is unable to track mouse movements etc., as Hampton's reps have stated in our forum. In other words, there is no way that they detected a robot as they have claimed.

Rich (Ron Lewin) told me over the phone that he had physical evidence that Brian used a robot (besides his "confession"). Well, now is the time to release this evidence to RTG or even to the public. I have put my reputation on the line concerning this since I have made public statements that Hamptons had this evidence. I can only hope that they were being honest with me.

Actually, let me rephrase that: They had better hope that they were being honest to me. You don't lie to the Casinomeister - you get caught.

From the git go, there has been speculation that Rich coerced this confession out of Brian. I questioned this at first, since I gave him the benefit of the doubt; I believed what he told me was true. But I am now under the impression that he tricked Brian and that there never was a robot.

Real Time Gaming and Rich/Ron Lewin need to prove to me otherwise.
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
jetset said:
A new storm is brewing in the 911 forum following a single paragraph which appeared (unsourced) on their news page today implying that the player in this case faces other (unspecified) problems.
Hi Jetset.....please...how do I get to the 911 forum :confused:
Thank You
 

quber

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Location
Europe
at the end of Mary's post

2003 Delano Casino. Metagalaxia, S.A. Suite 2B,
Mansion House 143 Main Street, Gibraltar
All rights reserved.

Gibraltar is a well registered juristiction and the courts would take any action neccesary if any case went to them
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Good point - we certainly should not forget that Delanos Casino is also witholding both player logs and tens of thousands of dollars in winnings from the player in this matter.

And they're doing it despite the game being cleared by RTG and the total lack of evidence that the player was in the wrong.

They're exacerbating that by ignoring the player's requests for logs, explanations and payments I understand.

Perhaps this is a good case with which to test the efficacy of the Gilbraltar authorities in enforcing fair, honest and transparent behaviour on the part of their licensees....
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I've been in contact with the operators from Delanos and as far as I know, there are negotiations being made at the moment.
 
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