RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

[portia]

With all the attention Hampton's and Delano's have drawn to themselves here we should be able to put together a pretty good boycott.

Does anyone still accept advertisements/links to these places?

 

[jyde]

Does anyone still accept advertisements/links to these places?

Haha - what do YOU think.

 

[cipher]

Haha - what do YOU think.

Definition of Conspiracy. A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission he: agrees with such other person or persons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct that constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime;

or, agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning or commission of such crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime.

Scope of Conspiratorial Relationship. If a person guilty of conspiracy, as defined by Subsection (1) of this Section, knows that a person with whom he conspires to commit a crime has conspired with another person or persons to commit the same crime, he is guilty of conspiring with such other person or persons, whether or not he knows their identity, to commit such crime.

Conspiracy With Multiple Criminal Objectives. If a person conspires to commit a number of crimes, he is guilty of only one conspiracy so long as such multiple crimes are the object of the same agreement or continuous conspiratorial relationship.

Attached is a list of all of Pirates RTG Casinos that he played at (20) of them.

PIRATE'S RTG CASINO LIST

HAMPTON CASINO $1,300,000.00
DELANO CASINO $ 68,000.00
LUCKY PYRAMID $ 50.00
PHOENICIAN CASINO $ 0.00
GOLDEN NILE $ LOCKED?
ROYAL CIRCUS $ LOCKED?
LUCKY COIN $ LOCKED?
SKY INTERNATIONAL $ LOCKED?
CLEOPATRAS $ LOCKED?
CRYSTAL PALACE $ LOCKED?
HIGH ROLLERS $ LOCKED?
SCI FI CASINO $ LOCKED?
GRAND ACES $ LOCKED?
PALACE OF CHANCE $ LOCKED?
MAGIC OASIS $ LOCKED?
BREAKAWAY $ LOCKED?
WINDOWS CASINO $ LOCKED?
GAMBLERS LOBBY $ LOCKED?
SUNSET PALACE $ LOCKED?
CROWN VEGAS $ LOCKED?

It certainly seems to me that there's something funny going on what with all of these still locked accounts.

Cipher

 

[Gamblegirl]

With all the attention Hampton's and Delano's have drawn to themselves here we should be able to put together a pretty good boycott.

Does anyone still accept advertisements/links to these places?

Here are a few which still do:

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www.winneronline.com/code/casinos/link.php?548

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You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[cipher]

Here are a few which still do:

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www.winneronline.com/code/casinos/link.php?548

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Thanks for the assist Gamblegirl.

 

[cipher]

Thanks for the assist Gamblegirl.

Well it would appear as though Cristie at DELANO'S CASINO is perfectly content at trying to "DODGE HER WAY THROUGH THIS ONE". As there's been absolutely no response to (2) separate Demand for Payment letters and she's not been available for a phone call in nearly a week.

I am however getting the rather distinct impression that those individuals that work for her at DELANO'S CASINO are even getting rather tired of covering for her in this regard.

All this from a place that was suppose to have a stellar management?

 

[jetset]

It doesn't sound too good, that's for sure but then this industry is full of unprofessional *managers* who do not have the decency and courtesy to respond to legitimate communications.

I'll be surprised if Delanos decides to take their chances with this one, because they have no grounds whatsoever in continuing to hold Pirate's winnings imv, and they stand to lose an awful lot.

There are so many positives in meeting their obligations in a fair and honest way.

Guess the wider picture is often unseen by some of these folks...

 

[jyde]

I certainly hope they're NOT trying to screw him for the alleged robotplay. Their terms are standard RTG terms which means they're dealing with hacking and flawed games. There is absolutely nothing about robots.

h. If you are found cheating or if it is determined by Delano Casino that you have used a system or machine, be, it an additional computer, additional software or otherwise used to circumvent the natural randomness of our systems.

The randomness of the game was never circumvented. This was confirmed by McMain in the beginning of this thread. Remember - McMain was the one that mentioned RTG in general has no problem with robots. Using standard RTG terms to void winnings because of suspected robotplay is plain crazy.

Mr. McMain - how come Delano isn't paying?

 

[The Dude]

As a number of you know, I've been discussing this with Delano casino over the past few days.

The reason that they are not paying "the Pirate" is because he admitted to using a robot at Hamptons casino. Delanos casino clearly states in their rules section (not their T&Cs) that robot play is forbidden:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by Delano Casino on our Web pages. Any Internet wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot" player, is strictly forbidden. In the event that use of non-approved client software is detected, Management reserves the right to invalidate all such wagers retroactively, cancel the player's account, or take any other appropriate action.

But according to the Wayback Machine, June 2003 had no sich paragraph.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Looks like this was a pretty expensive phone call for the pirate.

 

[cipher]

As a number of you know, I've been discussing this with Delano casino over the past few days.

The reason that they are not paying "the Pirate" is because he admitted to using a robot at Hamptons casino. Delanos casino clearly states in their rules section (not their T&Cs) that robot play is forbidden:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by Delano Casino on our Web pages. Any Internet wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot" player, is strictly forbidden. In the event that use of non-approved client software is detected, Management reserves the right to invalidate all such wagers retroactively, cancel the player's account, or take any other appropriate action.

But according to the Wayback Machine, June 2003 had no sich paragraph.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Looks like this was a pretty expensive phone call for the pirate.

Actually Bryan, now Delano Casino will need to prove their ascertion that Pirate used a Robot. And that does not come without major consequences as their delay in this regard will only have a devastating effect on whatever bottom line they've got left by way of actual, punitive and exemplary damages.

Any chance Bryan, that these people have guts enough to come on the forum and state their position for the record?

Cipher

 

[mary]

RTG needs to start screening licensees for time machines.

 

[jyde]

This is to much. What a bunch of lying, cheating, bastard sacks of shit

If you do a search for the phrase "All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by" google will find you a bunch of former or current Unified Gaming casinos. Hampton used to be Unified Gaming and according to the wayback machine they had anti robot terms back in October 2000.

These terms ARE Unified Gaming and UG have been stiffing players for "robotplay" as long as anyone can remember. When it was added it had a reason though. They had a positive EV Blackjack Game (and bonuses) that was vulnerable to counting and robotplay.

Now look at the entire robot clause at Hampton:

All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by Hampton Casino on our Web pages. Any Internet wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot" player, is strictly forbidden. In the event that use of non-approved client software is detected, Management reserves the right to invalidate all such wagers retroactively, cancel the player's account, or take any other appropriate action.

Compare it to Delanos:

All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by Delano Casino on our Web pages. Any Internet wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot" player, is strictly forbidden. In the event that use of non-approved client software is detected, Management reserves the right to invalidate all such wagers retroactively, cancel the player's account, or take any other appropriate action.

Identical - with commas, capital letters and everything. The rule wasn't there (at Delanos) last summer. so why on earth did this RTG-casino add Unified Gaming terms in the meantime?

Could we once and for all agree on that this robot nonsense on the RTG games is...nonsense. Banning robots is like admitting your games are rigged because you're afraid someone will find patterns. A robot can't do shit for you - other than lose money when you're not around. You can teach it basic strategy - and it will play basic strategy. You can have it bet progressions and it will do it. But you can't teach it "gut feeling" which I believe is the only "tool" the Pirate used.

This has turned out to be the biggest and the second biggest scandal in onlinegaming history. Involving one player, two casinos and one softwareprovider. And zero robots of course. Unbelievable

 

[portia]

Well i maintain that the play logs are important.

If Pc21 still does not have them or heard any response to his request, that suggests that they might contain evidence that would "NOT" appear to be robot perfect play.

 

[cipher]

Well i maintain that the play logs are important.

If Pc21 still does not have them or heard any response to his request, that suggests that they might contain evidence that would "NOT" appear to be robot perfect play.

I absolutely agree Portia and with Realtime Gaming making it incumbent for the casino to initiate the request for those log data files keeps the log data files out of the hands of the player. Oh the tangled web we weave.

Cipher

 

[jetset]

This is unbelievable and the downward spiral has started.

I think the Pirate needs to start the compound interest machine running as part of his litigation - make these people pay for their duplicity when this *admission* is thrown out of court and they're left with their pants around their ankles and NO PROOF of robot play to back their very questionable grounds for disqualification.

If RTG really wants to do something right and fair here it should immediately release the gaming logs from Hampton and Delanos to the Pirate and his legal team, whether the casinos like it or not - and maybe there's something that should be done by way of injunction to get a hold on any interference with those logs in the meantime, as it sounds as if they could be of evidential value although MikeM has already revealed that they show no sign of irregularities in play.

And RTG need to fire these two clearly crooked casinos...this is already the biggest online gambling scandal of all time and it's going to get dangerously worse once the mainstream press get hold of it.

Time to start playing hardball with this story.

 

[mary]

To recap:

*Hampton lied about detecting a robot.
*Delano lied about forbidding robot play in their terms.

I'm waiting for Delano's explanation of how they detected robot play. I think Dr. Who is involved as a consultant on both robots and time travel.

So much creativity being expended on doing the wrong thing. Pirate was willing to accept the (to me ridiculous) six years of installment payments. His win is fabulous publicity for the game and the software. Casinos keep saying that "we love winners" because the business they bring in offsets the expense of paying them.

If that is true, Montana SA could pay him from their percentage received from all licensees and use him fully in their advertising. That shouldn't be too painful spread out over six years!

RTG should pull the plug on Hamptons and Delano for their conduct not only embarassing to the casinos in question, but for the allegations they have made against the integrity of RTG's software.

 

[kniepm]

What a difference a month makes! Ive been too busy for the past three weeks doing legitimate work to check in with the Casinomeister. I took a break on Tuesday to check the forums and, for the last three days, Ive been too busy catching up on the PC21 saga to do any work. (Sorry boss, Ill come in on Saturday.)

Lots of great posts here: free, open debate of a topic that hits very close to home to most (if not all) online players. Bryan, your handling of this situation not only proves a high level of integrity but also that you are able to keep an open mind. Not to mention patience as you continued to tell PC21 to chill out and he couldnt stop himself from destroying his own case. You are a dude of highest character (with oak leaf clusters).

My two cents: PC21 made a killing and Hamptons and Delanos (and others) are trying to weasel out from under devastating, yet legitimate, losses. If theres a lesson here Ill take away, its to keep a low profile. How far ahead would PC21 be today had he not decided to tell the world how he had plundered the casinos for all the booty? (Arrrgh, indeed matey.) I know the rush you feel after a big win (not to the tune of $1.3M), so I can understand his wanting to tell the world how he beat the casinos senseless. I was shocked to see at the beginning of this thread how PC21 insisted on consistently stepping on your own saber with his ill considered posts and poorly executed ruse to lure information from the casinos by admitting to breaking their posted rules.

Seems to me the basis for this dispute and most other disputes you see involving online gaming is the lack of trust. The players dont trust the casinos and the casinos dont trust the players (especially those able to cash-out winnings). The sad part is that both the operators and the players have experience that causes each to be wary of the other. In my experience, any time Ive had a win over $500 Ive held my breath until the money was safely deposited in my checking account. (Maybe Ill take a quick sigh when I see an increase in my NETeller balance, but Im still waiting for them to disappear with my deposits. {I have no reason for this fear, Im just paranoid of faceless strangers handling my money.}) Ive had to fight and make repeated 2:00 a.m. phone calls to casino managers to collect winnings and have been screwed by the old bonus abuser label (all at RTG casinos). I have accounts at dozens of casinos and can think of only one that I feel I can be reasonably confident will pay me my winnings on any given occasion. Its pretty sad that the gamble isnt playing the tables or slots, its requesting a withdrawal.

When you find yourself in such a situation, you find the odds staggeringly against you. First, the casino has the best lever, they are holding your money; its their call whether they are going to release or not. Second, the average person, having graduated at least 4th grade, has a hard enough time filing a complaint in their local small claims court, let alone going against a casino operator working from a spider hole in some third-world country.

PC21, it may be quite a fight to ever see another penny from your plunders but I wish you all the luck in the world. I truly hope read one day that the blaggard either pay in full or sink to the bottom as a result of their misdeeds.

 

[toofast4u]

Arrrrr, we should make em' walk the plank, arrrrr

 

[portia]

Arrrrr, we should make em' walk the plank, arrrrr

Hamptons/portofino and Delano's are bent on self destruction.

 

[sirius]

I'm sure this has already come out but isn't Delanos related to Winward (these are already dumped in my forum): Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I wouldn't be surprised if they had carried over the 'no robot rule' term because Winward used to use unified gaming too.

 

[jyde]

I'm sure this has already come out but isn't Delanos related to Winward (these are already dumped in my forum): Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I wouldn't be surprised if they had carried over the 'no robot rule' term because Winward used to use unified gaming too.

Would make sense if Delano had the same rule from the beginning. They didn't.

 

[sirius]

I'm not so sure at the moment that they changed the rules after the Pirate played. It would be a bit stupid to do that. People mentioned they didn't have the rule recently but maybe they didn't check the terms properly. So is it known that they changed the rules after he played or was the change before then?

It's not very relevant though because they have no proof he used a robot and RTG claims most of their sites welcome robot play so it seems just an excuse to void his winnings.

 

[portia]

Sirius : Believe Cmeister and co. checked the Delano terms early in this controversy. Maybe he could comment?

 

[mary]

Delano Casino reserves the right to cancel your membership at any time without notice. Any balance in your account will be immediately credited back to your credit card or sent to you by check. In addition, Delano Casino reserves the right, in its total discretion, to void any winnings and withhold any balance in your Casino account under any of the following circumstances.
a. If the name on your Casino account does not match the name on the credit card(s) used to deposit money into the account.
b. If you provide false and or misleading information used to open your Casino account.
c. If you are not of legal age in the jurisdiction where you reside.
d. If you reside in a jurisdiction, where law prohibits the use and participation of such games.
e. If you have allowed or permitted (purposely or not) another party to play on your Casino account.
f. If you have reversed or charged back any of your purchases on your Casino account.
g. You are allowed ONLY ONE ACCOUNT. Winnings will only be paid to players having ONE account. If you have more than one account, all winnings and bonuses will be VOID.
h. If you are found cheating or if it is determined by Delano Casino that you have used a system or machine, be, it an additional computer, additional software or otherwise used to circumvent the natural randomness of our systems.
i. The name on the casino account does not match the name of the beneficial owner of the financial instrument used to make the deposit or withdrawal.

You will all note no mention of "robots" and machine play is disallowed only if it circumvents the natural randomness--that is, somehow messes up the game's result distribution.

Merely automating play, or speeding it up, does not meet these conditions.

I'd like to see a record of my gameplay, is this available anywhere?
Yes, complete records of the entire gameplay history for your account can be obtained by contacting customer service.

Ohkay..... interestingly, unlike Hampon's, Delano had no maximum limit on withdrawals back in June.

Withdrawal Guidelines:
click here for deposit options

In order to help you redeem your funds from your Delano Casino account in a fast and accurate matter please make sure that you are aware of the withdrawal policies at Delano Casino.


Withdrawal requests are processed at Delano Casino only on Monday's. Customers are entitled to only one withdrawal request per week. Withdrawal requests must be received by 11:59 p.m. Sunday in order to be processed on Monday. Any multiple withdrawal requests will be declined. The first withdrawal request that enters our system will be the payout processed for that week. We cannot modify any withdrawal requests for higher amounts of money. Please make sure you enter the correct amount of money you wish to redeem from your account.
Withdrawal Guidelines:

NOTE: Before we will send out a large withdrawal check or a Bank Wire ($800.00 USD or more) we MUST have on file a SIGNED & Notarized credit card authorization form (get a copy from support@delanocasino.com) and photocopies of a valid government-issued picture ID card (driver's license, passport, etc.), a copy of your credit card billing statement and a copy of a utility bill (phone, electric, gas) with your name and address as it appears on your credit card billing statement and your Delano Casino account. This is to verify that we are sending the winnings to the correct person. If you supplied this information when you made your DEPOSITS, we already have it on file and you will not be required to send it again.

Withdrawal Procedures:

Log into your Delano Casino account with your Account Name and Password. Once you have logged in click on the Cashier button on the top of your screen. Once connected to the Cashier click on the withdraw money button. Type in the amount of your withdrawal and choose the delivery method on the scroll down menu.

Banking: Withdrawals


Withdrawal Guidelines:

In order to help you redeem your funds from your Delano Casino account in a fast and accurate matter please make sure that you are aware of the withdrawal policies at Delano Casino.
Withdrawal requests are processed at Delano Casino only on Monday's. Customers are entitled to only one withdrawal request per week. Withdrawal requests must be received by 11:59 p.m. Sunday in order to be processed on Monday. Any multiple withdrawal requests will be declined. The first withdrawal request that enters our system will be the payout processed for that week. We cannot modify any withdrawal requests for higher amounts of money. Please make sure you enter the correct amount of money you wish to redeem from your account.
NOTE: Before we will send out a large withdrawal check, NETeller Transfer or a Bank Wire ($800.00 USD or more) we MUST have on file a SIGNED & Notarized credit card authorization form (get a copy from support@delanocasino.com) and photocopies of a valid government-issued picture ID card (driver's license, passport, etc.), a copy of your credit card billing statement and a copy of a utility bill (phone, electric, gas) with your name and address as it appears on your credit card billing statement and your Delano Casino account. This is to verify that we are sending the winnings to the correct person. If you supplied this information when you made your DEPOSITS, we already have it on file and you will not be required to send it again.
Withdrawal Procedures:

Log into your Delano Casino account with your Account Name and Password. Once you have logged in click on the Cashier button on the top of your screen. Once connected to the Cashier click on the withdraw money button. Type in the amount of your withdrawal and choose the delivery method on the scroll down menu.

When processing withdrawal requests payments are made by first crediting the maximum amount possible to the Credit Card(s) or FirePay accounts. We will credit the withdrawal amount back to that same charge account provided that the credit amount does not exceed the TOTAL amount charged to Delano Casino. We will credit back in the exact same order and amount the deposits were made to your Casino account. To withdraw winnings over and above your total deposits, we must send the additional funds to you by NETeller transfer, Bank Check or Bank Wire. For example, if you wanted to withdraw $1,000 and you had deposited a total of only $500 by credit card, we would first credit $500 to your charge account, then send you the remaining $500.00 USD via our payout option methods. For bank checks the amounts between $50.00 USD to $249.00 USD will be sent via Registered Mail and amounts over $250.00 USD will be sent via FedEx/DHL courier. The minimum amount required to send a Bank Wire transfer is $500.00 USD. We will need the name of your bank, the address for your bank, the name on the bank account, the ABA or SWIFT number and account number to complete a bank wire transfer.




Withdrawal Fees:

If it is the first time you are redeeming funds from your Delano Casino account you will be required to cover the fees involved on the withdrawal transfer. After your first withdrawal request has been processed and you have already covered the fees, Delano Casino will cover the fees on your next withdrawal. Customers are entitled to ONE FREE withdrawal request per 30 days.

The fees any additional withdrawals processed within 30 days are:


Credit Backs: FREE
Neteller: 2-4 days FREE
Registered Mail: Two weeks or more delivery $25.00 USD
Bank Check FedEx/TNT: 3-4 business days for delivery $45.00 USD
Bank Wire: 2-3 business days
$60.00 USD


Registered Mail Bank checks for amounts lower than $50.00 USD will pay a $25.00 USD service charge fee.

Correct Contact Information:

We must confirm your physical address and telephone number before sending funds via NETeller, FedEx/TNT, Registered Mail or Bank Wire.


All accounts must have a correct valid contact phone number listed in their account information. Use of an invalid phone number is grounds for forfeiture of any and all winnings.


You may confirm your address and telephone number by calling our toll free number 1-800-274-7345 or by replying to the confirmation email once you submit a redemption request. However, the information you provide us with MUST match your account information, otherwise your redemption request will be void and all your winnings forfeit.


Please make sure we have your correct email address registered in your Casino account. This is for transferring funds via Neteller and in order for you to receive a confirmation email once your withdrawal request has been processed.
Credit Card Authorization and Affidavit Forms:
Click here for Credit Card Authorization Form (Word .doc format)
Click here for Credit Card Authorization Form (text format)




Withdrawals for MasterCard deposits:

If your original deposit was made with a MasterCard, due to an ongoing policy MasterCard shares with Online Gaming merchants we are not able to issue any credit backs to a MasterCard. However, we will issue the funds either via NETeller or Bank Check. In any case in which the withdrawal amount is of $500.00 USD or more over the original deposit amount, the Casino player will be responsible to provide Delano Casino with a signed Credit Card Authorization Form.

Click here for MasterCard Authorization Form (Word .doc format)
Click here for Master Card Authorization Form (text format)


Please contact support@delanocasino.com for the MasterCard Credit Card Authorization form.


This form must be signed and include the exact Credit Card Number used to make your purchase at Delano Casino, the name on the Credit Card and the expiration date. This form must be sent to us either as an attachment via email to Delano Casino or faxed to the following numbers:

Efax: 1-703-991-8879 or (506) 293-1435.

Contact Us:

If a customer for some reason is unhappy with any purchase at Delano Casino please contact the Customer Support Staff at support@delanocasino.com . If you decide to dispute any of your purchases and place a charge back, Delano Casino will bring this issue directly to the Online Authorization Department where the customer will be banned and sent directly to the negative database list which is shared with all Online Casino's . This will blacklist the customer and prevent them from playing on ALL online Casinos in the future. Additionally, the customer must take into consideration that their Credit Rating can be affected. In order to avoid such situation IT IS VERY important to contact us via email or calling our toll free number: 1-800-274-7345. This way we can handle the issue directly.
If you have any questions regarding your withdrawal request or any of the above policies feel free to contact us anytime. Please call our toll free number 1-800-274-7345 or send us an email to: support@delanocasino.com




2003 Delano Casino. Metagalaxia, S.A. Suite 2B,
Mansion House 143 Main Street, Gibraltar
All rights reserved.

 

[mary]

This was not on the Dealno site in une of 2003.

All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by Delano Casino on our Web pages. Any Internet wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot" player, is strictly forbidden. In the event that use of non-approved client software is detected, Management reserves the right to invalidate all such wagers retroactively, cancel the player's account, or take any other appropriate action.

This one still is.

I'd like to see a record of my gameplay, is this available anywhere?
Yes, complete records of the entire gameplay history for your account can be obtained by contacting customer service.