Casino Complaint Royal Vegas takes my deposits and winnings

[filterss2]

I deposited and played at 3 casinos of this group- Royal Vegas, Vegas Palms and Europalace.

I won 734, 276 and 649 respectively. I sent everything they asked me for- all kind of documents.
And then they lock my account, no explanations, nothing. Later I contacted the casino representative at this website.
And he told me that I contravened their terms by betting 30% of the bonus I received.
I check my notes and I see my mistake- I thought one cannot bet more than 30% of the bonus received.
And it turned out that one cannot bet the sum EQUAL to 30% or more. At Vegas Palms and Europalace
casino my maximum bets were 30 and 45 respectively (e.g. exactly 30% of the bonus). But at Royal Vegas
my maximum bet was 40 (of 150 euro bonus) which is LESS than 30%. I acknowledged my mistake at Vegas Palms
and Europalace (although it is only 1 euro mistake- I accept this). And I was waiting for my deposits to
be refunded. And regarding Royal Vegas- I did not violate any TERMS so I should be paid in full.
But representative told me that "It is immaterial whether you tried to do the same at Royal Vegas" , that I abused their
bonus system and they confiscate ALL MY WINNINGS AND ALL MY DEPOSITS - including Royal Vegas!
Can you imagine this?

 

[Nifty29]

Yes, I can.

Can't wait to hear the FULL story.

 

[dunover]

I deposited and played at 3 casinos of this group- Royal Vegas, Vegas Palms and Europalace.

I won 734, 276 and 649 respectively. I sent everything they asked me for- all kind of documents.
And then they lock my account, no explanations, nothing. Later I contacted the casino representative at this website.
And he told me that I contravened their terms by betting 30% of the bonus I received.
I check my notes and I see my mistake- I thought one cannot bet more than 30% of the bonus received.
And it turned out that one cannot bet the sum EQUAL to 30% or more. At Vegas Palms and Europalace
casino my maximum bets were 30 and 45 respectively (e.g. exactly 30% of the bonus). But at Royal Vegas
my maximum bet was 40 (of 150 euro bonus) which is LESS than 30%. I acknowledged my mistake at Vegas Palms
and Europalace (although it is only 1 euro mistake- I accept this). And I was waiting for my deposits to
be refunded. And regarding Royal Vegas- I did not violate any TERMS so I should be paid in full.
But representative told me that "It is immaterial whether you tried to do the same at Royal Vegas" , that I abused their
bonus system and they confiscate ALL MY WINNINGS AND ALL MY DEPOSITS - including Royal Vegas!
Can you imagine this?

Well, you breached their terms whether involuntarily or not. You also signed up for multiple accounts at the group to get multiple bonuses, which may or may not be a breach in itself in the timeframe you did it. You then AP'd the 3 bonuses. So, as a group they've voided winnings which they can under their terms and refunded your deposits. You've lost nothing as such, but have learnt to read the terms carefully in future.

 

[fortunelounge]

filterss2

As discussed in my PM's to you:

You received a bonus of €100 and made 7 bets of €30 each on Roulette and after you won you made a huge number of small bets on slots in order to meet your playthrough requirements (For example: 1281 bets on slots at €0.80 Avalon, 305 bets on Loaded at €0.50, 3 409 bets on Liquid Gold at €0.60, etc, etc)

I have explained to you that this is in breach of our terms. It is also exactly (Exact roulette game ans subsequent slots wagers) how several other players attempted to breach our terms.

This was no "accident" or "mistake".

Regards

Wim

 

[redsfan]

Well, you breached their terms whether involuntarily or not. You also signed up for multiple accounts at the group to get multiple bonuses, which may or may not be a breach in itself in the timeframe you did it. You then AP'd the 3 bonuses. So, as a group they've voided winnings which they can under their terms and refunded your deposits. You've lost nothing as such, but have learnt to read the terms carefully in future.

The OP claims they have kept his deposits which the rep hasnt disputed so I presume he is down his deposits.

 

[redsfan]

filterss2

As discussed in my PM's to you:

You received a bonus of €100 and made 7 bets of €30 each on Roulette and after you won you made a huge number of small bets on slots in order to meet your playthrough requirements (For example: 1281 bets on slots at €0.80 Avalon, 305 bets on Loaded at €0.50, 3 409 bets on Liquid Gold at €0.60, etc, etc)

I have explained to you that this is in breach of our terms. It is also exactly (Exact roulette game ans subsequent slots wagers) how several other players attempted to breach our terms.

This was no "accident" or "mistake".

Regards

Wim

May I ask, are you saying that the fact that the OP changed from roullete to slots is against your rules. For example, if he had bet £29 a spin, the fact he then played these slots, would have still voided his return?

Thanks

 

[fortunelounge]

May I ask, are you saying that the fact that the OP changed from roullete to slots is against your rules. For example, if he had bet £29 a spin, the fact he then played these slots, would have still voided his return?

Thanks

Hi redsfan

Changing from roulette to slots is not against our rules but making bets of 30% and higher on your bonus is against our terms. If she made bets of €29 once or twice we would probably have overlooked it but these were 30% bets made consistently until a win ocurred and then thousands of very small bets in order to meet the wagering requirements. This is rather irregular and if there are several players doing exactly the same - same games and same strategy - something looks very suspect.

Regards

Wim

 

[redsfan]

Wim

Thanks for taking the reply to post. I do concede it does look suspect but in its singularity, it isnt against the terms and conditions to bet €29 (had to find the euro sign ) as your terms say 30%. It is an advantageous way to play the bonus though, hitting a target and then dropping down to a high ratio game to complete wagering.

May I ask, did the casino keep the deposits or were these in fact returned?

Without prejudice to the above, the OP was in breach of the rules by opening more than two accounts in a seven day period so falls at the first hurdle.

 

[dunover]

It's usual practise for a casino to return deposits if they arbitrarily decide to close or lock a players account if the player has a balance of his deposit or greater left. Some will even return the deposits when closing if the player has lost the deposit. FL are accredited and I would fully expect them to do so.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi redsfan

Changing from roulette to slots is not against our rules but making bets of 30% and higher on your bonus is against our terms. If she made bets of €29 once or twice we would probably have overlooked it but these were 30% bets made consistently until a win ocurred and then thousands of very small bets in order to meet the wagering requirements. This is rather irregular and if there are several players doing exactly the same - same games and same strategy - something looks very suspect.

Regards

Wim

beatingbonuses (dot) com or similar.


However, the allegation is that DEPOSITS were also confiscated, yet this is not fraud, merely AP. Arguing the equal or less than is splitting hairs too, making FL no better than the APs. What "other players" are doing is immaterial to how you treat any one player, unless you have evidence that they are operating together as a "ring".

Maybe 30% is too high a figure, as simply by betting €29 instead of €30 until hitting a big win, the AP would get pretty much the same outcome, yet not breach this term at all.

If players are signing up with their own genuine details, it should be easy for the system to track them making accounts through the group till they hit a win, and maybe block registration (or at least the crediting of the bonus) if more than 2 are opened within 7 days. Playtech have systems that can block an account within seconds of registration if it is deemed that a player has created accounts at different casinos too quickly for the operator's liking.

 

[Mouche12]

Well, yes, the OP should have placed bets lower than 30%, the "equal to" part takes care of that. But it's also at the casino's discretion to confiscate winnings on bets of $30 instead of the allowed $29. The rep's assurance that the OP's bets were consistently $30 is of course due to the fact that the OP believed he was following the rules by betting not higher than 30%, he forgot to read the "equal to" part. Hairsplitting? Yes, perhaps but the casino is in it's right. They only have to return the deposits, which according to the OP, they did not.

 

[dunover]

Perhaps the rep should come back to this thread and confirm as to whether the OP has had deposits refunded, as there is seldom any excuse to keep them when barring a player. The OP needs to elaborate on this too.

 

[chuchu59]

I have no problems with FL not paying the winnings but confiscation of deposits is an absolute no-no. This is bonus abuse and Wim seems to be saying that there may be other players doing something similar but even if that is correct they are only a bunch of advantage players and while they can be kicked out the deposits need to be returned. Otherwise, it would send a message to players that FL is using an excuse to confiscate legitimate deposits. Over to you Wim.

 

[akrus88]

I can not understand why the royal vegas winnings are confisticated o.O??
I really hate bonus abusers, that is the reason bonuses are so shitty nowadays. But if just thinking the T&C, royal vegas winnings should have been paid.

 

[MisterBJ]

Im sorry guys. I don't like the way Royal Vegas has handled this. Its seems like casinos are finding the pettiest reason to void winnings. What next deny winnings or deposit back. Because someone name Matthew spelled it Mathew by mistake?

 

[mattsgame]

Im sorry guys. I don't like the way Royal Vegas has handled this. Its seems like casinos are finding the pettiest reason to void winnings. What next deny winnings or deposit back. Because someone name Matthew spelled it Mathew by mistake?

You leave us out of this thanks

I do not like casinos keeping deposits at all as I do not think there is any reason that they should be allowed to and FL have shown many times that they will keep them.

 

[pianoman]

Fortune Lounge T & C

I get the impression that not only is this a "newbie" CM member (first post) learning a decent lesson, but might also be a new punter trying some halfbaked system recommended at some site (affiliate or otherwise) and shooting 'emself in the foot.
Like most of us did to some extent early on, until we realised there's a respectable aspect to playing that allows decent access to bonuses at preferred sites YEAR after YEAR - no wukkin furries mate!

It was only a few months ago I queried individually in Online Chat at each Fortune Lounge site (other than Euro Palace - already a player there...) their willingness to provide the welcome bonus despite registering at each and every one?
Sometimes I got the same customer service rep too
Anyway the surprising thing for me was that none of them denied my claim for any as promoted Welcome bonus in full.
And later for any withdrawals, I needed only to advise them that Royal Vegas already had my docs on file.
I had my share of wins and losses - but am a little ahead overall
After a decade of playing slots online I was sufficiently impressed however that I'd almost play there exclusively, if I didn't already have 32RED club Rouge membership.
Did our poor lil OP play fair

Pretty blatant attempt here to take advantage, thus abusing the bonus provisions I reckon ...

I'm on Fortune L's side -
whether they keep his deposits or not !

 

[mrmark21]

Im sorry guys. I don't like the way Royal Vegas has handled this. Its seems like casinos are finding the pettiest reason to void winnings. What next deny winnings or deposit back. Because someone name Matthew spelled it Mathew by mistake?

... Or someone missed a digit of their phone number

I know that some members here think it's okay for casinos to keep deposits when a player makes a mistake but I think it's very very wrong. They aren't going to pay the winnings (they are well within their rights not to given their T&Cs) but they still want to keep the deposits? That's outright theft IMPO.

P.s. I don't think he was taking a dig at you BTW Matt

 

[mattsgame]

P.s. I don't think he was taking a dig at you BTW Matt :)

I was being cheeky

 

[filterss2]

Yes , all three my deposits (350 euro) were confiscated. And I have not opened all three accounts at the same time. There was a one month period between I opened one account
at Vegas palms and 2 others at RoyalVegas and Europalace.


I have 2 questions to Fortune Lounge representative:


1. I agreed that I made a mistake and wagered slightly above the allowed max bet limit at Vegas Palms
and Euro Palace (actually it was 1 euro cent bigger than allowed). However, at Royal Vegas I DID NOT violate that rule - my maximum bet there was
40 for bonus 150 which makes less than 27% . And you acknowledged this fact in your PM to me several days ago.
How fair is it to make me pay for my mistake at one casino by confiscating my winnings at the
other casino, at which I did not violate ANY RULES?

2. How fair is that you decide CONFISCATE all three deposits (total 350 euro) just because I made a
bet which was by 1 (ONE) EURO CENT bigger than allowed by your rules? And you also confiscated the deposit at
the casino where I did NOT violate ANY TERMS AT ALL (Royal Vegas).

 

[chuchu59]

If the confiscation is true and there are no valid reasons for it then the FL group is really carving a bad reputation for itself. Wim had posted in this thread but there was no mention that the deposits would be confiscated so unless a valid reason is given this group deserves a kick in the butt.

 

[Borgie]

It would be really good if the REP could confirm one way or the other whether the deposits have been confiscated and if so why. Its so frustrating when its left in limbo as it is at the moment.

 

[MisterBJ]

Yes , all three my deposits (350 euro) were confiscated. And I have not opened all three accounts at the same time. There was a one month period between I opened one account
at Vegas palms and 2 others at RoyalVegas and Europalace.


I have 2 questions to Fortune Lounge representative:


1. I agreed that I made a mistake and wagered slightly above the allowed max bet limit at Vegas Palms
and Euro Palace (actually it was 1 euro cent bigger than allowed). However, at Royal Vegas I DID NOT violate that rule - my maximum bet there was
40 for bonus 150 which makes less than 27% . And you acknowledged this fact in your PM to me several days ago.
How fair is it to make me pay for my mistake at one casino by confiscating my winnings at the
other casino, at which I did not violate ANY RULES?

2. How fair is that you decide CONFISCATE all three deposits (total 350 euro) just because I made a
bet which was by 1 (ONE) EURO CENT bigger than allowed by your rules? And you also confiscated the deposit at
the casino where I did NOT violate ANY TERMS AT ALL (Royal Vegas).

If what you are saying is true. If this would have happened at 32red. I can almost promise they would have paid you. I feel some once decent casinos are struggling, do to the turn down in the world's economy. Some has went from flushing to now 48 hrs pending. And even 5+ days before processing withdrawals. So even the smallest violation of terms maybe used to deny winnings. Its like living in a decent small town where a few yrs ago. Polices wouldn't bother you for small infractions. Now they will pull you over because you didnt put on your turn signal. We all have own on betting system. Whether we play 25 spins on a slot and then move on. Or play in between slots and table games. I'm sure 100s if not 1000s of people have came to FL this year alone. Placed a large bet and lost. The casino didnt say a word. MG has the ability to limit bets to a certain percentage. Why this wasn't used in your case? I don't understand.

FL you owe this player his deposits back. Keeping any deposits for whatever reason (Unless stolen funds) is roguish and makes you no better than the depositer. To be honest when i read about things like this. It disgust me, to see how online gambling have turned.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yes , all three my deposits (350 euro) were confiscated. And I have not opened all three accounts at the same time. There was a one month period between I opened one account
at Vegas palms and 2 others at RoyalVegas and Europalace.


I have 2 questions to Fortune Lounge representative:


1. I agreed that I made a mistake and wagered slightly above the allowed max bet limit at Vegas Palms
and Euro Palace (actually it was 1 euro cent bigger than allowed). However, at Royal Vegas I DID NOT violate that rule - my maximum bet there was
40 for bonus 150 which makes less than 27% . And you acknowledged this fact in your PM to me several days ago.
How fair is it to make me pay for my mistake at one casino by confiscating my winnings at the
other casino, at which I did not violate ANY RULES?

2. How fair is that you decide CONFISCATE all three deposits (total 350 euro) just because I made a
bet which was by 1 (ONE) EURO CENT bigger than allowed by your rules? And you also confiscated the deposit at
the casino where I did NOT violate ANY TERMS AT ALL (Royal Vegas).

So, did they pay your withdrawal from Vegas Palms a month prior, or did you play the other two a month later whilst still not having had anything from Vegas Palms?

 

[filterss2]

So, did they pay your withdrawal from Vegas Palms a month prior, or did you play the other two a month later whilst still not having had anything from Vegas Palms?

I won 278 euro at Vegas Palms. Then they started asking for all kind of documents. So I started to play Europalace and Royal vegas before they paid me Vegas palms. Yes.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I won 278 euro at Vegas Palms. Then they started asking for all kind of documents. So I started to play Europalace and Royal vegas before they paid me Vegas palms. Yes.

A classic newbie mistake, misplaced trust in an operator or situation. A wise player would have held off playing others in the group till such issues got sorted out, after all, if they are not satisfied with the documents for one casino in the group, they are not likely to be satisfied with them at the rest. A month is a VERY long time for a standard verification and payment, so should be a sign that things are not right. As it turns out, things were NOT right, and without knowing this, you made the same mistake twice more.

This is such an old bonus whoring method that I am wondering where you got it from. Most casinos just ban Roulette altogether to counter this trick. Those that still allow it are going to be keeping a close eye on players who open their first session like a VIP Whale on Roulette, and then play like a miser on slots.

Playing right on the line of the terms also lead you too close to the edge, and you fell off after tripping over the equal to or less than argument. Bets of €25 would have kept you well under, leaving the casino in the position of having to try a "spirit of the bonus" argument for confiscating winnings, which for an accredited casino here is a non starter.

If you try this elsewhere, you are likely to have further sets of winnings confiscated, especially at non accredited casinos that will more freely use "spirit of the bonus" to deny payment.

 

[fortunelounge]

Hi filterss2

It is abundantly clear to us that you were conducting irregular betting on our casinos.

However, we have removed the winnings you achieved through this irregular betting from your Royal Vegas and Vegas Palms accounts and your original deposits are there to wager with. In terms of your Euro Palace account, there is no balance in your account.

Please note that you have been placed in a promotional bonus exclusion group that will prevent you from receiving any future bonus.

Regards

Wim

 

[filterss2]

Excuse me, but there was 649 euro balance at my Euro palace casino account when you locked it. I deposited 150 euro into it on 23.08.13 at 12:38 lisbon time. I made a withdrawal
from it on 31.08.2013. Something is wrong here. Please, check it again on your side.
And also- at Royal vegas casino account I had a balance of 734 after wagering the bonus in full and
I did not violate the rules there. Why my winnings are confiscated there too? For what exact reason? Because I violated terms at Vegas Palms?
But these are 2 different casinos, are not they?

Hi filterss2

It is abundantly clear to us that you were conducting irregular betting on our casinos.

However, we have removed the winnings you achieved through this irregular betting from your Royal Vegas and Vegas Palms accounts and your original deposits are there to wager with. In terms of your Euro Palace account, there is no balance in your account.

Please note that you have been placed in a promotional bonus exclusion group that will prevent you from receiving any future bonus.

Regards

Wim

 

[chuchu59]

Hi filterss2

It is abundantly clear to us that you were conducting irregular betting on our casinos.

However, we have removed the winnings you achieved through this irregular betting from your Royal Vegas and Vegas Palms accounts and your original deposits are there to wager with. In terms of your Euro Palace account, there is no balance in your account.

Please note that you have been placed in a promotional bonus exclusion group that will prevent you from receiving any future bonus.

Regards

Wim

So were the accounts locked and the deposits confiscated till some forum members showed their displeasure. Merely reinstating the balances now show that the FL group has not been handling this issue in good faith.

 

[MisterBJ]

So were the accounts locked and the deposits confiscated till some forum members showed their displeasure. Merely reinstating the balances now show that the FL group has not been handling this issue in good faith.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

So were the accounts locked and the deposits confiscated till some forum members showed their displeasure. Merely reinstating the balances now show that the FL group has not been handling this issue in good faith.

Cashcheck.


Could the OP log in and take a screenshot of their Cashcheck for the period in question on all three accounts. It will show the withdrawals prior to confiscation of winnings, the return of the two deposits to wager with (which will show whether they were only returned after this thread raised a stink, or were there all along), and finally prove the allegation that a withdrawal from Euro Palace was also confiscated and the deposit NOT returned (as opposed to the balance having been subsequently played and lost).

 

[filterss2]

All three accounts of mine are still locked.

Hi filterss2

It is abundantly clear to us that you were conducting irregular betting on our casinos.

However, we have removed the winnings you achieved through this irregular betting from your Royal Vegas and Vegas Palms accounts and your original deposits are there to wager with. In terms of your Euro Palace account, there is no balance in your account.

Please note that you have been placed in a promotional bonus exclusion group that will prevent you from receiving any future bonus.

Regards

Wim

 

[mrmark21]

So were the accounts locked and the deposits confiscated till some forum members showed their displeasure. Merely reinstating the balances now show that the FL group has not been handling this issue in good faith.

Exactly and to think they are going to try to get Euro Palace accredited If thats the case then they have probably used these deposit confiscatIon tactics with more players than just the op.

 

[dunover]

Look, I'd suggest the intelligent solution here is to just close his accounts and return the deposits, which by Wim's statements are still sitting there to be played with. The casino/player relationship is irretrievable so call it a day, send him his deposits back and go your own ways.....

 

[skiny]

filterss2

As discussed in my PM's to you:

You received a bonus of €100 and made 7 bets of €30 each on Roulette and after you won you made a huge number of small bets on slots in order to meet your playthrough requirements (For example: 1281 bets on slots at €0.80 Avalon, 305 bets on Loaded at €0.50, 3 409 bets on Liquid Gold at €0.60, etc, etc)

I have explained to you that this is in breach of our terms. It is also exactly (Exact roulette game ans subsequent slots wagers) how several other players attempted to breach our terms.

This was no "accident" or "mistake".

Regards

Wim

The OP broke the terms. Return the deposit, keep the winnings.

Question: If you don't like people taking advantage of your bonuses, why do you allow people to bet over 1/4 of their bonus at once and allow them to play roulette? If the player had bet 1% less you would have been just as unhappy but instead had to pay.

Wouldn't it be simpler to write your terms and conditions to make this style of play impossible?

 

[filterss2]

Look, I'd suggest the intelligent solution here is to just close his accounts and return the deposits, which by Wim's statements are still sitting there to be played with. The casino/player relationship is irretrievable so call it a day, send him his deposits back and go your own ways.....

First, I cannot see what is there "sitting" in my accounts since my accounts are still closed and unaccessible.
Second, I played at Royal Vegas exactly by the casino rules and I won. Why do you support them confiscating almost
600 euro of legitimate winnings from me? I ask one more time- if I violated maximum bet rule at Vegas Palms casino-
does it mean that at Royal Vegas casino (where no rules violated) my winnings should also be confiscated?
Also take into the consideration that when I say about violation it is actually the smallest
deviation from the terms possible: I made the bets of 30 euro instead of allowed 29.99 euro. One cent violation only.What
advantage over casino I got by these 1 cent bets?

 

[Borgie]

Sorry but with regards to it only being one cent violation that's tough - rules are rules you can't expect them to break them for you just because you only made a little mistake as opposed to a big one - where would that end.

They need to open your accounts back up so you can get your deposits back or they should just pay you the deposits back one or the other.

Also the rep needs to advise why has the money from Euro Palace vanished. Again the deposit should be repaid . As to whether your winnings should be paid that's up to the casino and their rules. The rep should be able to enlighten you as to why .

 

[bpb]

Sorry but with regards to it only being one cent violation that's tough - rules are rules you can't expect them to break them for you just because you only made a little mistake as opposed to a big one - where would that end.

Love this argument. Let's make sure online gambling isn't fun or entertaining. Let's make it like a tax audit instead.

 

[catapultaudio]

Second, I played at Royal Vegas exactly by the casino rules and I won. Why do you support them confiscating almost
600 euro of legitimate winnings from me? I ask one more time- if I violated maximum bet rule at Vegas Palms casino-
does it mean that at Royal Vegas casino (where no rules violated) my winnings should also be confiscated?

I think your failing to look at the other side of the argument properly with regards this point, from your point of view it is a different casino, whereas from theres, it is just another part of their business - the same business you agreed to abide by the rules of, and then didn't.

The question really I suppose would be whether their own t&c permits them to take this action at another one of their skins based on your actions at another but I can certainly see from a business perspective their thinking in taking action against you as a person regardless of the title of the window you were playing in.

I think it's important that the information VWM mentioned is posted so that both the casino and the player get a fair hearing here as theres a whole lot of mud slinging based on if-this-then-that right now

 

[Nifty29]

Love this argument. Let's make sure online gambling isn't fun or entertaining. Let's make it like a tax audit instead.

Better still....let's allow a 5% buffer for all max bet rules and others involving money.

Then we can read about the complaints from the player who was 6% over and claims they should bend the rules as it's "only 1% over". Last time I checked, the terms of use apply to ALL players, not just those who feel like it.

And while we're at it.....let's have a regular flow of totally negative 25-words-or-less interjections containing no constructive content. Oh wait.....

 

[dunover]

Better still....let's allow a 5% buffer for all max bet rules and others involving money.

Then we can read about the complaints from the player who was 6% over and claims they should bend the rules as it's "only 1% over". Last time I checked, the terms of use apply to ALL players, not just those who feel like it.

And while we're at it.....let's have a regular flow of totally negative 25-words-or-less interjections containing no constructive content. Oh wait.....

Exactly - wherever the boundary line is drawn, there'll always be those who deem it their right to stick a toe over it without consequence.

 

[fortunelounge]

Hi filterss2

Apart from violating the 30% term on some of the casinos, you displayed irregular betting across all your casino accounts. The pattern you followed on all of your accounts was one of large bet sizes on Roulette and switching to very small bets on slots in order to meet the wagering requirements. This includes your Royal Vegas account and we regard this as a form of irregular betting.

In effect what we have done is to confiscate your winnings only. In the case of your Fortune Room and Platinum Play account, you had no winnings and played out your deposit.

In this regard our Terms clearly state:

"The casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:

Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met
Using the double-up feature to increase bet values
Even money bets on Sic Bo, craps, baccarat, Wheel of Riches and roulette "

A refund of the deposits has been arranged and will be in your Neteller account later today.

Your accounts are now locked in terms of our deregistration term which states that:

"We may refuse to register you as a Player or elect to deregister and exclude you or suspend you as a Player from the Casino at any time if we deem that your participation at the Casino is, shall be or has been previously, in any way not for personal entertainment [i.e. professional], fraudulent, illegal or that your participation is or has been abusive, collusive or irregular in any way."

Regards

Wim

 

[redsfan]

Wim

Sorry to be awkward but at the start of your reply you say he can Withdraw or Play but at the end you say when you withdraw his account is closed. One contradicts the other.

It seems you want rid of the player so surly just refund his deposits?

 

[fortunelounge]

Hi redsfan

Very valid point although not intended to be contradictive.

I will change the posting to reflect that we will refund the deposits where applicable.

Regards

Wim

 

[homerbert]

I will never made deposits at this group
Also here is some gambling problem, casino should entertain me, and i think such idiotic rules like DO NOT BET MORE THAN X OR WE WILL JUST TAKE YOUR MONEY should not exist at all. Op, i suggest you just forget about this case and play something another, than this group with such terms. Actually, i do not see difference with them and casino rewards. Both send spam, both sitting and waiting to confiscate money for any breach, and both do not want to help customers, just wait and take from them some money.
Also, why it is irregular betting when for example i have 200$ balance, go to roullete and start bet on red and black at lets say 20$. May be its is my strategy, on roullete and bj made bet equal 1/10 of my bankroll, but on slots my strategy bet 1/200 of my bankroll. This is so irregular FL?
Shame, and i am very sad after reading this 5 pages. But at least there are still lights in the dark like betat, guts, redbet, 32red, quasar. This guys know what to do, and i think gamblers should reward them for such good reputation.

 

[dunover]

I will never made deposits at this group
Also here is some gambling problem, casino should entertain me, and i think such idiotic rules like DO NOT BET MORE THAN X OR WE WILL JUST TAKE YOUR MONEY should not exist at all. Op, i suggest you just forget about this case and play something another, than this group with such terms. Actually, i do not see difference with them and casino rewards. Both send spam, both sitting and waiting to confiscate money for any breach, and both do not want to help customers, just wait and take from them some money.
Also, why it is irregular betting when for example i have 200$ balance, go to roullete and start bet on red and black at lets say 20$. May be its is my strategy, on roullete and bj made bet equal 1/10 of my bankroll, but on slots my strategy bet 1/200 of my bankroll. This is so irregular FL?
Shame, and i am very sad after reading this 5 pages. But at least there are still lights in the dark like betat, guts, redbet, 32red, quasar. This guys know what to do, and i think gamblers should reward them for such good reputation.

Look, the FL sites have the same terms and conditions as many other accredited sites and act in the same way. Many of the player's problems were as a result of breaching terms AND multi-account AP-ing. I also get the feeling he may be colluding, but let's look at FL.
They are unique in that they WILL let you open accounts at many of their sites AND claim a bonus on each site (if you don't claim more than 2 SUBs per week/fortnight or whatever their limit is).
32red won't allow this, i.e. if you take theirs you don't claim at GL/Dash/Nedplay so not bad is it?

Because of many linked accounts, it's probably a nightmare for them to ascertain which should be open or suspended, which should pay and which shouldn't so they locked them. He has been found out, and has his money back. Hopefully he's learnt a lesson.

 

[gagamel]

I never had a bonus problem like this one. Ok, the OP hurt the T/C and lost his winnings. I agree with this point. But I would never deposit there, because I play a little bit like the OP and as I said, never had a problem.
I deposit 50 and catch a 50 bonus, I play 0.4 a spin (I always play: bankroll:250 spins) after 250 spins I lost for example 50. Now I try my luck in BJ, and I always play 5, if I lose, 5. If I win 10, if I win 20. Then starting with 5. If I have a good feeling I stand on 20 or 25 per hand. I see nothing illegal in this gameplay and no other casino has an issue with my gameplay. I`m really astonished that an accredited casino has an issue with this sort of gameplay. And of course, sometimes I start playing with BJ and change to slots. Do I have to bet 20 per spin in this casino group then for not playing illegal. They can`t be serious.

 

[Janek12]

Hi filterss2

In this regard our Terms clearly state:

"The casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:

Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met
Using the double-up feature to increase bet values
Even money bets on Sic Bo, craps, baccarat, Wheel of Riches and roulette "

Isn't this loose and open-ended definition of "irregular play" effectively a "spirit of the bonus" clause?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi redsfan

Very valid point although not intended to be contradictive.

I will change the posting to reflect that we will refund the deposits where applicable.

Regards

Wim

You walked into this.

By locking the accounts, the player had no means to check how you had dealt with the matter, so as far as he was concerned, you HAD confiscated all the deposits along with the winnings. All the while, the deposits were sitting in the accounts waiting for the player to withdraw them, but no one told him this, and his accounts were locked so he could not check. All he could see was that a month later, not only were the winnings voided, but the deposits had never turned up. It's one part of the team not in step with the other. Team A put the deposits back into the accounts for play or player withdrawal, whilst Team B decided that the accounts would be locked for good, but didn't tell Team A that this meant they had to refund the deposit, not place it into the account, whilst Team A didn't tell Team B that they HAD put the deposit into the accounts, and expected the player to withdraw them.


Somewhere, you have an affiliate, possibly more than one, who is not just promoting your casinos, but promoting the current use of this old AP method, which stands a chance because FL, unlike many other places, DOES still allow the SUB to be taken at every casino provided the player leaves 7 days gap between goes, and DOES still allow bets of just under 30% of the bonus on Roulette, rather than banning the game altogether.

What about all the other APs that are just that bit smarter, and bet UNDER 30% of their bonus, not EXACTLY 30%, and follow a similar strategy, perhaps one not so easy to pin down to a specific term violation? Confiscating winnings here would lead to accusations of "spirit of the bonus" confiscations, so it might be better to have a system that issues a group wide bonus ban the FIRST time any player tries this trick, even if they lose on that attempt. With the 7 day gap rule, there would be time to check play before any one player had the chance to work their way through all 8 casinos + Euro Palace whilst not violating the 7 day gap term.

To get around detection, a player would have to alter the details they register on the accounts at the sister casinos, and this could put them in breach of the "fake details" provisions of the general terms.

 

[gagamel]

Isn't this loose and open-ended definition of "irregular play" effectively a "spirit of the bonus" clause?

In my opinion it is. It`s like the CelticCasino strategy: If you play BJ or Roulette with a system they can cancel your winnings. For this casino Martingale is a system and they can cancel any winnings, and as I know they did. Irregular play is the same BS, they can cancel any winnings at any cause.