Rivals dropping like flies
- Thread starter dominique
- Start date
-
- Tags
- rival rival casinos
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
I believe the house of cards is falling - the rogue pit is going to be quite active in the next few days.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- somewhere else
Maybe we should give them their own special pit with I don't know, dance classes, movie nights and bingo? 
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Location
- somewhere on the planet
It will really be interesting to watch the Rival implosion! I really hope that at least one of the original, non white labels, will remain standing. 
Come on, Slot O Cash!!!!!
Come on, Slot O Cash!!!!!
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2004
- Location
- Sweden
Short term I think they should be ok if Rival backs up what their CEO told Casinomeister less than a week ago and steps in quick to pay players and affiliates when the white lables can't.
Long term I think they will keep having issues unless they either reduce the bonuses they give out a lot or reduce the variance on their games. What seems to be happening now is that the design of the games create bonus abusers out of players that have no idea they are playing with a positive EV and then they get bonus banned when they win and go somewhere else to play. A casino that basically offers games without a house edge won't make any money and end up bust.
Long term I think they will keep having issues unless they either reduce the bonuses they give out a lot or reduce the variance on their games. What seems to be happening now is that the design of the games create bonus abusers out of players that have no idea they are playing with a positive EV and then they get bonus banned when they win and go somewhere else to play. A casino that basically offers games without a house edge won't make any money and end up bust.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- somewhere else
Same here jod just wanted them to get back to the way it use to be but all the intrigue and mystery sure is interesting as any book I've read lately. 
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2007
- Location
- World Citizen
Just an interesting detail of an interesting character
Just for the record. It was that interesting character "Stephane" that shut the chat into my face aswell. What a beaty in ignorance and rudness!!!
In no other business customers are treated like this.
Bah!!!!
Kind regards
L'arsenne
Just for the record. It was that interesting character "Stephane" that shut the chat into my face aswell. What a beaty in ignorance and rudness!!!
In no other business customers are treated like this.
Bah!!!!
Kind regards
L'arsenne
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
Where do Rival find them!
This goes BEYOND incompetent. She contradicts herself not just once, but EVERY TIME she types a message.
She first says the OP's country is banned, and then IMMEDIATELY contradicts this by saying she can offer a free $20 on slots. Next, it's "no I can't". Didn't she check FIRST before making the offer
She also made the offer KNOWING ALREADY that this player was from a bonus banned country. She then abruptly countermands her own decision about the $20 free chip, and quickly "does a runner" from chat, which comes across as downright RUDE to the CUSTOMER at the other end.
This from 21 Grand, a casino who's rep has cried "foul" because they were lumped in with all the other white label casinos. 21 Grand said that they provide their own support, and don't use the "poor quality" central support provided by Rival. However, given the performance from Stephanie in this instance, what's the difference, might as well have been Rival central support.
There is no point having in-house support if it is still as bad as the Rival provided central support, in this case, it makes 21 Grand look even WORSE than the other whte label casinos, because 21 Grand do NOT have the excuse that the support is not under their control, which has been the problem with the others.
The end result of all this has been to drive players away because of the poor experience. This leaves Rival with a fair number of first time players taking the welcome bonuses, but relatively few sticking around for the longer term once they realise how poor the support is.
Now, the house of cards is falling, and Rival are doing too little, too late, to save the day. Bonne Chance will end up with so many "bust" white label casinos on their hands that they will struggle to turn things around before the players desert. Players have the 4 independent Rival casinos to go to if they like the software, and are looking for a long term relationship. The white labels will continue to get sign-ups from players only interested in the welcome bonuses, yet it seems to be the LOYALTY bonuses that players get banned from, and NOT the welcome bonuses.
Now that we have been told that many white label operators were running in the red, we can see that we have been LIED to in the past by these same operators, who have made up one excuse after another to cover up the fact that payment problems have, all along, been down to them not having the funds to cover payments to players, with Rival increasingly playing "hardball" with these operators who repeatedly expected Rival to bail them out again and again. Operators then accused Rival of being the problem, rather than addressing the fact that they were operating in the red by rethinking their marketing and bonusing strategies. Operators tried the quick fix, bonus banning winners, but pretending they were banned for "abuse" without offering any valid reasoning as to WHY the play had been abusive. This has been a PR disaster for Rival white labels, and has probably cost them many players that were NOT simply chasing bonuses, BUT expected to be offered them for being a loyal customer.
This goes BEYOND incompetent. She contradicts herself not just once, but EVERY TIME she types a message.
She first says the OP's country is banned, and then IMMEDIATELY contradicts this by saying she can offer a free $20 on slots. Next, it's "no I can't". Didn't she check FIRST before making the offer
She also made the offer KNOWING ALREADY that this player was from a bonus banned country. She then abruptly countermands her own decision about the $20 free chip, and quickly "does a runner" from chat, which comes across as downright RUDE to the CUSTOMER at the other end.This from 21 Grand, a casino who's rep has cried "foul" because they were lumped in with all the other white label casinos. 21 Grand said that they provide their own support, and don't use the "poor quality" central support provided by Rival. However, given the performance from Stephanie in this instance, what's the difference, might as well have been Rival central support.
There is no point having in-house support if it is still as bad as the Rival provided central support, in this case, it makes 21 Grand look even WORSE than the other whte label casinos, because 21 Grand do NOT have the excuse that the support is not under their control, which has been the problem with the others.
The end result of all this has been to drive players away because of the poor experience. This leaves Rival with a fair number of first time players taking the welcome bonuses, but relatively few sticking around for the longer term once they realise how poor the support is.
Now, the house of cards is falling, and Rival are doing too little, too late, to save the day. Bonne Chance will end up with so many "bust" white label casinos on their hands that they will struggle to turn things around before the players desert. Players have the 4 independent Rival casinos to go to if they like the software, and are looking for a long term relationship. The white labels will continue to get sign-ups from players only interested in the welcome bonuses, yet it seems to be the LOYALTY bonuses that players get banned from, and NOT the welcome bonuses.
Now that we have been told that many white label operators were running in the red, we can see that we have been LIED to in the past by these same operators, who have made up one excuse after another to cover up the fact that payment problems have, all along, been down to them not having the funds to cover payments to players, with Rival increasingly playing "hardball" with these operators who repeatedly expected Rival to bail them out again and again. Operators then accused Rival of being the problem, rather than addressing the fact that they were operating in the red by rethinking their marketing and bonusing strategies. Operators tried the quick fix, bonus banning winners, but pretending they were banned for "abuse" without offering any valid reasoning as to WHY the play had been abusive. This has been a PR disaster for Rival white labels, and has probably cost them many players that were NOT simply chasing bonuses, BUT expected to be offered them for being a loyal customer.
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Location
- NOT Pennsylvania!!!
VWM what is your obsession with the demise of Rival? Do you have accounts with many? Do you actually have inside knowledge or is this just heresay and gossip?
I have played at Rivals on and off for four years now and have always found their software good and cs on a par with industry standards.
I know there were problems with progressives and these were well documented elsewhere and ofcourse there was the Superior BJ issue which was not good. I'm not here to defend those problems. But if you have been an ordinary player with or without bonus then this group have had a decent record over the years with no payment issues until recently.
Given that it was widely hinted at on this site they had lost major funds in May over credit card processing issues it is hardly surprising they appear to have payment issues going on now. This has been common for all gambling sites that have a largely US player base and is widespread in the Sportsbook industry at the moment. Clearly there is a lot of heat on and these guys are finding it very hard to get reliable processors. With Sportsbooks it has had a big knock-on effect with European players as the US problem has left them short of funds to load up online payment wallets like Neteller.
Since that Rival (progressives aside) have had a very good payment record for years it does seem likely their problems are much more to do with their customer base than any intention to deliberately non pay.
I know it's horrible that there are some big payments outstanding but hopefully they are not too massive yet. It's important to keep things in context. It's nothing like some of the offences committed by various RTG casinos over the last few years (and not just Virtual). Also we had Eurolinx and the FL scandal plus another big MG group failing I think.
If I were owed a big sum by Rival I would not give up hope atall. One thing they have going is excellent software. If they weren't able to continue operating casinos I am certain they could lisence their best slots games to third parties in the way Cryptologic have done. They have some of the best slots around and if it came to the worst Rival would make a great buy for some other gaming group.
For the sake of the folks owed by these guys isn't it time we cut them a bit of slack? I don't mean ignore the problems but if everyone jumps on the bandwaggon things will only get a lot worse. In truth I don't know the ins and outs of all this but until we have more facts why not try and be a bit more positive?
The bottom line is US players are playing with massive risk right now in a totally unregulated market and non US players are better off sticking to European based casinos. It is possible these problems with payment processors are beyond Rival's control.
I have played at Rivals on and off for four years now and have always found their software good and cs on a par with industry standards.
I know there were problems with progressives and these were well documented elsewhere and ofcourse there was the Superior BJ issue which was not good. I'm not here to defend those problems. But if you have been an ordinary player with or without bonus then this group have had a decent record over the years with no payment issues until recently.
Given that it was widely hinted at on this site they had lost major funds in May over credit card processing issues it is hardly surprising they appear to have payment issues going on now. This has been common for all gambling sites that have a largely US player base and is widespread in the Sportsbook industry at the moment. Clearly there is a lot of heat on and these guys are finding it very hard to get reliable processors. With Sportsbooks it has had a big knock-on effect with European players as the US problem has left them short of funds to load up online payment wallets like Neteller.
Since that Rival (progressives aside) have had a very good payment record for years it does seem likely their problems are much more to do with their customer base than any intention to deliberately non pay.
I know it's horrible that there are some big payments outstanding but hopefully they are not too massive yet. It's important to keep things in context. It's nothing like some of the offences committed by various RTG casinos over the last few years (and not just Virtual). Also we had Eurolinx and the FL scandal plus another big MG group failing I think.
If I were owed a big sum by Rival I would not give up hope atall. One thing they have going is excellent software. If they weren't able to continue operating casinos I am certain they could lisence their best slots games to third parties in the way Cryptologic have done. They have some of the best slots around and if it came to the worst Rival would make a great buy for some other gaming group.
For the sake of the folks owed by these guys isn't it time we cut them a bit of slack? I don't mean ignore the problems but if everyone jumps on the bandwaggon things will only get a lot worse. In truth I don't know the ins and outs of all this but until we have more facts why not try and be a bit more positive?
The bottom line is US players are playing with massive risk right now in a totally unregulated market and non US players are better off sticking to European based casinos. It is possible these problems with payment processors are beyond Rival's control.
One of the problems imo is of Rival's own making - it's weak communications and perceived lack of transparency regarding white labels.
Trust - as has so often been asserted on CM - is massively important in this business - and Rival does not seem to be working at generating this value.
Trust - as has so often been asserted on CM - is massively important in this business - and Rival does not seem to be working at generating this value.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2007
- Location
- World Citizen
Thinking positively
Dear Members of Casino Meister.
When you deposit your money in a casino, it is a financial agreement between you and the merchant (in this case a casino). Financial agreements are regulatet through terms and conditions.
As a customer you agree with all these terms and conditions when you click the little button "I accept". Then you are bound to follow those terms and conditions for all your transactions, no matter what.
It is not much to ask that this commitment will be followed by the customer AND the merchant.
And it is not to much to ask to be treated polite as a customer.
I play at mostly RTG accredited casinos and European casinos. I have never, ever got emails from any other casino, but Rival, with promotion offers that does not exist.
I have never at any but som Rival Casinos been blocked from a chat when I politely ask where the promotions are.
And it is interesting that one Rival casino can pay out though a processor in one day, when other Rivals take 5-10 days for a withdrawal through the same processor. It is not logic but magic.
Regards
L'arsenne
Dear Members of Casino Meister.
When you deposit your money in a casino, it is a financial agreement between you and the merchant (in this case a casino). Financial agreements are regulatet through terms and conditions.
As a customer you agree with all these terms and conditions when you click the little button "I accept". Then you are bound to follow those terms and conditions for all your transactions, no matter what.
It is not much to ask that this commitment will be followed by the customer AND the merchant.
And it is not to much to ask to be treated polite as a customer.
I play at mostly RTG accredited casinos and European casinos. I have never, ever got emails from any other casino, but Rival, with promotion offers that does not exist.
I have never at any but som Rival Casinos been blocked from a chat when I politely ask where the promotions are.
And it is interesting that one Rival casino can pay out though a processor in one day, when other Rivals take 5-10 days for a withdrawal through the same processor. It is not logic but magic.
Regards
L'arsenne
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
My "obsession" is about making things change. No-one made much of a "noise" before Eurolinx folded, and many players lost large sums of money.
Plenty of "noise" is being made about Rival, who seem to lurch from one problem to another, and try to lie their way out of a fix, rather than make the necessary changes.
We have only recently learned that many white label operators are as good as "bust", yet they were attempting to lie their way out of the problems, blaming Rival for everything. Only now has the situation become so bad that emergency action is being taken to stem the losses, with Rival taking over the worst (in terms of funding) operators. These operators even now say it was THEY who ditched Rival, but it seems it was the other way round, the operators were underfunded, and Rival told them there would be no more "bailouts" because they were holding up payments to players from well run white labels.
Until Rival announced that they were prepared to underwrite all owed monies to players and affiliates, we were looking at a mass failure of Rival white labels, with players not getting their money.
If this "noise" had not been made, I doubt we would have got this commitment from Rival, and operators would have continued to operate even further into the red, creating an even bigger problem in the future, and one that even Rival may not have been able to cope with without offering a "??c to the $" settlement to players & affiliates".
I WOULD have been a player at Rival if there were not all these problems, and part of forcing change is to make Rival safe to play at whichever casino is chosen. Things do seem to be moving in the right direction now.
There is little complaint about the software, and payment has been timely in the past, BUT payment issues are NOT just recent, there has been a gradual decline WITHOUT EXPLANATION, with 2 days becoming 5, and the "max" of 5 becoming the MIN waiting period. Then we had news that payments were DELIBERATELY being stalled to ENSURE at least 5 days were taken, even to ewallets. This was the first indication of cashflow issues, and it turned out that there WERE indeed such issues, with many operators running in the red, and relying on the goodwill of Rival to pay out before receiving the funds from the operator, something Rival were increasingly reluctant to do.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2004
- Location
- Pacific NW
If people don't complain about issues, then these issues are never dealt with and the casino accepts them as the norm. No one has to be compliant with casino abuse whether it's done through correspondence, payouts, etc.
Just when I think I've heard it all, there's always a casino story to add...
Just when I think I've heard it all, there's always a casino story to add...
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Location
- NOT Pennsylvania!!!
All fair points and well made.
One possible explanation behind the problem with the white labels could be that it was the Rival CC issue that impacted back on the white labels leaving them starved of funds and a bunch of players not depositing because they were owed money. So it could be that the Rival CC problem made life almost impossible for the smaller white labels which would explain why both parties are seemingly blaming each other.
Anyone who has been in business will know that sometimes events can overwhelm you very quickly and have a devastating impact. Who for instance would have thought that BP would have been brought to their knees in just three short months?
To me it looks like they have a decent business but they badly need an injection of finance. I know the white label thing has become a standing joke but it is not a bad idea in itself. I can see it working provided the parent group is managing them properly and adequately funded.
Hopefully some bigger company will step in and save these guys and run them better. And clearly playing at the core ones is the way to go until this all gets sorted out.
I hope they survive and improve anyway.
One possible explanation behind the problem with the white labels could be that it was the Rival CC issue that impacted back on the white labels leaving them starved of funds and a bunch of players not depositing because they were owed money. So it could be that the Rival CC problem made life almost impossible for the smaller white labels which would explain why both parties are seemingly blaming each other.
Anyone who has been in business will know that sometimes events can overwhelm you very quickly and have a devastating impact. Who for instance would have thought that BP would have been brought to their knees in just three short months?
To me it looks like they have a decent business but they badly need an injection of finance. I know the white label thing has become a standing joke but it is not a bad idea in itself. I can see it working provided the parent group is managing them properly and adequately funded.
Hopefully some bigger company will step in and save these guys and run them better. And clearly playing at the core ones is the way to go until this all gets sorted out.
I hope they survive and improve anyway.
- Joined
- May 4, 2006
- Location
- Finland
Well players started to make noise 3 months before they folded. Of course some were lucky to get their cashouts and some were able to dump their chips succesfully but for the majority it didnt provide any help as it was too late.
So one could say that when the noise is getting loud its mostly already too late if you have a large balance tied up.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Location
- Italy
You haven't any problem with payment? And why it's 9 days that i attend a payment from you to moneybookers? Now i have 2 payment request. One made on Monday 12/7 and one made on Monday 19/7. You had accept my documents in a precedent payment. Support is bad, they say all time "it's don't depend of me", "send an email to Nathan" (who's Nathan???), "Rival pay the players, not me",....
I'm very very angry! And if you don't pay me TODAY either request i will take my caution.
Sorry for my bad english!
Bye!
I'm very very angry! And if you don't pay me TODAY either request i will take my caution.
Sorry for my bad english!
Bye!
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
I think I mentioned about a year before they went tits up that the operator couldn't be trusted and they were thrown into the pit.vinylweatherman said:
Guess that wasn't good enough
Ditto on that. It's like people keep trying to reinvent the wheel. No matter what crap is thrown at you, you need to communicate with the players. This has happened way too many times and there are plenty of horror stories here in this forum that any operator can use as reference. A little bit of public acknowledgment and communication can go a long ways.jetset said:
It all stinks to me.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Location
- Bexhill on sea, England
Can you try to re-phrase?
Only I don't understand what you mean by "i will take my caution."
Making any sort of threats here on the forum will not help you one bit.
(It could, in fact, get you banned
).First, try to contact the rep on the forum. (Left-click on his name on his post and send him a Private message)
If you can't get anywhere with that - you MAY have to Pitch-A-Bitch.
However, I don't think that is really necessary - if you can wait a bit longer I fully expect you will get paid.
KK
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2004
- Location
- Palm Bay Florida
Hi Superalberto I see you found it.
I sent them a heads up on it too.
Good Luck
~T~
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
I sent them a heads up on it too.
Good Luck
~T~
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Location
- Italy
Sorry but i don't speak english very well 
I contacted on this forum the rep, but he's offline from 14 July!
21grand casino said on this forum ( i quoted it) that they are very regular on payment... But 9 days isn't regular for a casino that on terms and conditions write 2 -5 days time of payment... My documents was accepted on a precedent payment (2 weeks ago) and on this the payment was regular.
I contacted on this forum the rep, but he's offline from 14 July!
21grand casino said on this forum ( i quoted it) that they are very regular on payment... But 9 days isn't regular for a casino that on terms and conditions write 2 -5 days time of payment... My documents was accepted on a precedent payment (2 weeks ago) and on this the payment was regular.
Can you try to re-phrase?
Only I don't understand what you mean by "i will take my caution."
Making any sort of threats here on the forum will not help you one bit.
(It could, in fact, get you banned
First, try to contact the rep on the forum. (Left-click on his name on his post and send him a Private message)
If you can't get anywhere with that - you MAY have to Pitch-A-Bitch.
However, I don't think that is really necessary - if you can wait a bit longer I fully expect you will get paid.
KK
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Location
- Italy
Thanks Bingo!
He's offline from 14 July...
For my first withsrawal request (two weeks ago), he answered at my question, but now no...
He's offline from 14 July...
For my first withsrawal request (two weeks ago), he answered at my question, but now no...
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2004
- Location
- Palm Bay Florida
Your Welcome
Now you know that they know about it from that PM I sent you.
~T~
Live Chat said
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Location
- Italy
I made my request on Monday 12, not over weekend 
A great thanks to BingoT that helped me in this situation :notworthy
Thanks, thanks, thanks!!!! You're great! :notworthy
A great thanks to BingoT that helped me in this situation :notworthy
Thanks, thanks, thanks!!!! You're great! :notworthy
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
I think I mentioned about a year before they went tits up that the operator couldn't be trusted and they were thrown into the pit.
Guess that wasn't good enough
Ditto on that. It's like people keep trying to reinvent the wheel. No matter what crap is thrown at you, you need to communicate with the players. This has happened way too many times and there are plenty of horror stories here in this forum that any operator can use as reference. A little bit of public acknowledgment and communication can go a long ways.
It all stinks to me.
The problem was that this "noise" was not enough to counter the PR from the operator, and many players still got caught out.
I DID notice their dumping into the Rogue pit, and that was enough for me to strike them from my list of potential places to play. There didn't seem to be a continuing problem attracting continual new threads of complaint UNTIL it was too late, and they were effectively already bust.
I remember TUSK earlier, there WERE indications of problems when eCogra pulled their seals, but firstly eCogra could say nothing more in the way of clarification, and a TUSK rep came to the forum to assure players it was merely an "administrative issue", which would NOT affect players at all.
Even I was fooled, since after a week of caution, I could see nothing going wrong, and on my first withdrawals after they folded, I was paid promptly as normal using their "instant Neteller payment" option. They folded mere HOURS after my last payment, and I discovered this because MGS had disabled the cashier, and NOT because anybody from TUSK could be arsed to inform players.
Since then, we have to take even the slightest sign of things going wrong as a warning that a casino might be going bust, and Rival was spitting out PLENTY of such signs, and had been for months. Despite this, those that questioned whether Rival were OK were told they didn't really know what they were talking about, and operators assured players that funding was not an issue, it was just a run of "technical problems" that created this impression.
It seems there WAS a funding issue all along, now admitted to by the CEO of Rival, and this has lead to many operators pulling the plug, leaving Rival to underwrite the debts owed, which Rival said they will honour.
We still have to be sure that Rival are ABLE to honour all this bad debt, as this promise will be worth little if Rival themselves are forced under by the weight of debt from the failed White Labels.
Better protection for player deposits is something this industry needs to put in place, so that even if there are signs that a particular operator has funding issues, players can continue to deposit and play in the full knowledge that their balances are insured against operator failure. This could make the difference between an operator going under because players have been scared off, and managing to turn things around with help, and the continued support of their regular players.
- Joined
- May 4, 2006
- Location
- Finland
At Eurolinx/BetOnBet there was cashout requests made months before they folded that never were paid. And some players tried to contact MG when problems started in May 09.
And TUSK only paid 10k/week, so to cashout 6 figure rolls it took quite some time. Fore example Ozzy87 made a 500k cashout request in Oct 07 and was only paid 180k before they busted.
So usually when you see that something is wrong its too late. So far the licensing jurisdictions have failed miserabely in setting up anything that would protect players balances when a casino/poker room/sportsbook goes bust.
A reason why I almost exclusively play at PLCs
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- somewhere else
I certainly would have thought twice about playing at absolute slots had I known they were going to disappear 2 weeks later? or change their name or whatever they did. There was a "Nathan' there also.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
Despite this restriction, they became accredited, and earned the eCogra seal. There was a mere 2 weeks between the first real warning that something had gone wrong (eCogra pulled the seals), and them going bust. They WERE at least paying out on the 10K per week right to the very end.
The warnings about Eurolinx were knocking around, but they were dismissed as the ramblings of those who dreamed up "conspiracy theories" by the operator, and thus they were able to keep some players depositing and playing. Most of the complaints seem to have come from the Poker side, and casino players hardly noticed things were going badly wrong. Only when Bryan introduced a warning did the news reach me from a more credible source, and there was no way I would be convinced that an official CM warning was "the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist".
The problem now is that the rest of the industry is under more detailed scrutiny from players unwilling to be bitten again, or in some cases, for a third time. Even the slightest signs of funding stress has players worried, even though on many occasions the excuses given by the operators turn out to be true, rather than cynical PR to keep the deposits flowing in the hope of trading out of a "bust" position.
Rival would probably not have suffered as much from loss of player confidence had the high profile TUSK and Eurolinx failures not left players high and dry, with some nursing 6 figure losses.
The commitment from the CEO of Rival to honour outstanding payments due from failed white labels could well save Rival from total failure due to this crisis, since players know that their deposits are guaranteed by Rival, something which CANNOT be said of the other softwares, not even the mighty Microgaming offers protection of player balances.
Once the badly run white labels have been weeded out, the core of well run white labels, plus the independents, should be able to retain and recruit players.
- Joined
- May 4, 2006
- Location
- Finland
They better honour outstanding payments as they run the whole payment processing among other things. They are basically in the role that TUSK was, if they hadnt gone under neither would the poker skins and the casinos have. So its not exactly the same as Linx Group which was independent and not a whitelabel of Microgaming. So if MG would offer whitelabel solutions in the same way as Rival does I dont doubt for a second that they wouldnt do exactly the same.
Worth to note that Rival doesnt guarantee balances for the individual casinos. So they arent different than any other software provider in how players balances are protected.
And some more OT about Linx Group. BetOnBet was aquired by Eurolinx in February 09 (or March). Most Finnish players for example played at BOB (a quick summary brought me +500k owed to Finns, mostly from BOB) and some didnt even know it was bought by Eurolinx. And there was never a single warning anywhere about BOB.
And its a bit exaggerating saying that there would have been warnings about Eurolinx before things started to south in late May 09 (even tough the problems not known by outsiders had started a year before).
As can be seen by a post made by WiltOnTilt who lost +200k: the whole thing is so disgusting...especially since as soon as we realized there were problems (late may), it was already much too late. It sounds like it was also too late for you the day you made him the loan, and of course you had no way of knowing any better either.
And players had succesfully cashed out six figure rolls after the incident here at CM.
So my point is that I dont give credit to Rival for doing something that is industry standard.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2004
- Location
- Palm Bay Florida
Superalberto has been paid 
Thank You 21grand.
~T~
Thank You 21grand.
~T~
Superalberto said:
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Location
- NOT Pennsylvania!!!
I see the Rival situation being quite different from Eurolinx. The big difference is Rival only operate casinos. If you operate poker and sports the situation is a lot more complicated.
If you take the Eurolinx situation (I am guessing now) but I presume there were a lot of very favourable rakeback deals going on. I mean there has to be a reason why elite players were keeping 500K balances there. I remember when BetonBet launched in the Uk the bonuses were so generous they became a standing joke. It was well known in the Uk it would only be a matter of when and not if BetonBet failed. But that was based on opinion of them as a stand alone operation.
Usually with these combined operations it's the sportsbook or poker that brings them down either through unsustainable rakeback inducements or a sportsbook getting arbed into oblivion. And when it is the sportsbook they won't find out until it's too late. It's incredible how fast it can happen if they take their eye off the ball.
Again it is pure speculation but you would think their core casinos would be highly profitable. Yes they have isues with the white labels but they should have a successful core business plus some very solid assets in the software.
I really can't see how they could be strugling unless there is a huge accounting black hole that has built up over years. But sometimes good business go down due to the banks/lenders. It's not always the bad guys that fail.
If you take the Eurolinx situation (I am guessing now) but I presume there were a lot of very favourable rakeback deals going on. I mean there has to be a reason why elite players were keeping 500K balances there. I remember when BetonBet launched in the Uk the bonuses were so generous they became a standing joke. It was well known in the Uk it would only be a matter of when and not if BetonBet failed. But that was based on opinion of them as a stand alone operation.
Usually with these combined operations it's the sportsbook or poker that brings them down either through unsustainable rakeback inducements or a sportsbook getting arbed into oblivion. And when it is the sportsbook they won't find out until it's too late. It's incredible how fast it can happen if they take their eye off the ball.
Again it is pure speculation but you would think their core casinos would be highly profitable. Yes they have isues with the white labels but they should have a successful core business plus some very solid assets in the software.
I really can't see how they could be strugling unless there is a huge accounting black hole that has built up over years. But sometimes good business go down due to the banks/lenders. It's not always the bad guys that fail.
Some very good points made by Diamond Geezer here, imo.
Operators sometimes make disastrous decisions - often on issues like rakeback and promos, the latter especially when it comes to online casinos that should, as DG observes, be profitable.
Unfortunately these can obliterate a company and the poor bloody player is left suffering the consequences.
Operators sometimes make disastrous decisions - often on issues like rakeback and promos, the latter especially when it comes to online casinos that should, as DG observes, be profitable.
Unfortunately these can obliterate a company and the poor bloody player is left suffering the consequences.
