Slots.lv unfairly not paying $28,825 in winnings.

CMPS831

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
Hello Casinomeister community. I am posting here to see if I can get some help regarding an unfair situation I am having with Slots.lv. As I understand it, Slots.lv is a highly rated and regarded casino, along with their sister casinos Bovada.lv and Cafecasino.lv.

On 4/19, I accepted a bonus there and won $28,825 and Slots.lv is denying my winnings, claiming I broke the maximum wager rule and am guilty of further bonus abuse and non-recreational play. My contention is that my play was the exact opposite of non-recreational and their maximum bet rule is not only unfairly hidden, but also that Slots.lv has (and continues to) advertise “no max wager” on at least two affiliate sites.

I believe this is unreasonable behavior for a highly rated casino and that my balance should be restored. I received an unfavorable decision from their Dispute Resolution Office and would like an opinion from members of this forum as to the validity of my complaint, along with any recommendations as to how and where I can get a fair ruling.

Here is the related timeline:

On 4/19, I won $28,825 playing on the “double up” bonus at Slots.lv. I signed up for Slots.lv because of their seemingly excellent reputation as well as their (advertised) no maximum withdrawals or wager size when playing with a bonus. My basic strategy was to deposit between $45 and $80 for the 200% unlimited bonus and wager $20 per spin (between 8% and 14% of the starting balance). Prior to the deposit in question, I had made 12 other deposits and lost each time. On the deposit in question, I started winning right away and ‘played my rush’ increasing to $50 per spin. As the slots stayed ‘hot’ and my balance increased further, I raised my bets to $100 per spin and had an amazing run, ending with $28,825.

On 4/20, I emailed my personal identification documents (front and back of driver’s license, selfie, current utility bill), and my account was verified. I then requested a $2500 withdrawal, which was the maximum amount allowed. On 4/21, my account was locked, and on 4/23, I was told to call and confirm my identity. On 4/24, I repeatedly called the phone number Slots.lv provided (855-446-3770), but no one ever answered. I then went onto their online chat, spoke with Shontelle, and arranged Slots.lv to call me the next day. They neither did that, nor called me at any point. On 5/6, I received an email from Slots.lv stating that I had broken their terms and conditions and my winnings were voided. As I was extremely upset, I immediately arranged for legal counsel to represent me and my attorney contacted Slots.lv on 5/8 outlining –

1) Their chicanery as to initially requesting verbal confirmation of my identity (even though they had already verified my identity via email), but never answering my calls or calling me.

2) If they claimed bonus abuse, why didn’t Slots.lv mention that at any point between 4/21-5/6?

3) Their rules being so hidden as to not be binding.

4) That I was not guilty of bonus abuse.

On 5/21, Slots.lv responded negatively, and on 6/1, my attorney refuted all their arguments except the 20% of deposit rule. However, this rule (or any of their bonus rules) is so hidden it constitutes false advertising and should not be enforced here. I have copies of all these interactions if desired.

Upon signing up, I read the bonus terms and conditions. The double up bonus is advertised on the site and here are the terms (this is from 8/16, the bonus was 200% and unlimited when I played in April. I can produce the original terms if necessary):

====================================
THE DOUBLE UP TERMS AND CONDITIONS
Players must have made a deposit to be eligible for this bonus.

The Daily Double Up consists of a 100% match bonus up to $100 per redemption, which can be redeemed once per day.

As of June 29th 2020, The Daily Double Up Bitcoin Edition consists of a 150% match bonus up to $500 with 2 redemptions per day. Must be depositing with Bitcoin to be eligible.

For the Bitcoin match bonus, the minimum deposit required is $10.

Once the bonus code has been redeemed, players must meet the playthrough requirement before being able to use the next bonus code.

Deposit plus bonus amount is subject to a specific playthrough requirement before the deposit and bonus amount and any winnings can be withdrawn.

The playthrough requirement for withdrawal is viewable in the “My Rewards” section of your Account Dashboard by clicking on the specific bonus.

Forfeiting this bonus will result in this bonus and any subsequent winnings associated with this bonus to be removed.

All games contribute to playthrough requirements; however, certain games may have a greater contribution than others. For more information please view our
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.



GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS
The general rules and policies of www.slots.lv shall also apply to the Promotion

Slots.lv has the right to cancel or withdraw the Promotion or change any of its terms at any time and without cause or notice.

Bonus funds may not be used in any Live Dealer games.

================================

There are two links on these rules. The first is to the wagering contribution chart, which I was not concerned about because I only planned to play slots. The second link is to general rules and policies of
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. This is simply the home page. Trying to exercise due diligence, I found terms of service and clicked that. The terms of service are nine (screenshot) pages long. I read all of it and saw no mention of any specific bonus terms and conditions. Apparently, there is a “help” link at very bottom of Section 6.4 (which is quite a long section as well) which links to specific bonus terms and conditions. Apparently, the “wager contribution chart” also contains the bonus rules, but why would I look there if I was going to play slots. If Slots.lv lists all the bonus rules, why are they putting the most important one (maximum allowed wager) under the false headline guide “wager contribution chart?”

I believe this most important 20% max wager rule is hidden to an extent that it is unreasonable to expect a player to find it and therefore should not be held as the basis to withhold fair winnings. If I continued to play and lose, as was most likely, I would not have been given my money back.

Before playing, I had also looked at many affiliate sites, among them kasinoking.co.uk. That site clearly advertises ‘NO’ in the column for max wager. As further proof that Slots.lv is engaging in false advertising, all this information was sent to Slots.lv on 5/8, and as of today the kasinoking.co.uk website has still not been updated. Furthermore, Slots.lv has updated their ‘double up’ bonus page but felt no need to add any mention of bonus rules or a maximum allowed wager when playing with a bonus. Note that thepogg.com also currently advertises ‘no maximum withdrawal’ on their website.

I am hoping the Casinomeister community agrees with me and can provide suggestions as to where and how I can recoup my winnings from Slots.lv. If Slots.lv gets away with not paying these winnings, this means:
  1. It is okay to list disqualifying bonus terms under false headings of “wagering contribution” and “help.”
  2. It is okay to list the bonus rules without really listing the important bonus rules (see above “double up terms and conditions.”).
  3. It is okay to allow affiliates to clearly falsely advertise the rules on affiliates and not update them even after this is brought to their attention.
  4. Basically Slots.lv is ‘freerolling’ their players but keeping their bonus rules hidden.

    Thank you for any input.
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
I will just give my two cents here. I play on Sots.lv, Bovada, and ignition almost daily. I have never heard of any of these sites having a max bet rule.

This is the first time I have ever heard of this.

However, the fact you are posting percentages and calculating everyone shows that you aren’t just a recreational player. It honestly looks like your only reason for playing was to to try and make money and beat the system.

If I ran one of these sites I would honestly think what you are doing seems strange.

I don’t think many people would bet 20.00 nonstop.

I have gone over the average bet a few times on other sites accidentally and they still paid me. I had this happen on Casino Brango and they made an exception and paid me because it was something I only did a few times and it was an accident.

Betting such large amounts just to clear playthrough and cash out would be a red flag at most sites.

However, Since none of their other sites do this and you obviously had no idea about it I think they should still pay you. So I am on your side as far as you being paid is concerned.

But that’s only because I have never heard of them having a max bet rule at all. I know most sites make it clear right up front that you can’t bet more than 5 or 10 bucks.

So I think you should be paid. But, I don’t necessarily think you played recreationally. Either way you should be paid and everyone should now know there are max bet rules. Maybe they should make an exception?

You would have to call and talk to a supervisor.

But to be 100% honest with you. I would not mess around like that at any of there sites. These people aren’t people you want to mess with from what I gather. I had issues with them in the past and worked it out though so you never know.

I would cal them on the phone. I don’t think they have any reps here. They don’t need affiliates for the most part. They make a ton on there sports. So cal and try to get paid and if you do I wouldn’t ever do this again on there.

Just my opinion. Good luck and I hope you get your money.
 

Reckless Bets

Newbie member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
US
The 20% max bet rule has been there for a few months, but not for any significant amount of time as I distinctly remember Bovada/Slots.lv/Ignition as having much more vague rules for bonus abuse without hard limits. This is evident in all the affiliate sites having (now) outdated information.

In my opinion, they should make it display crystal clear (especially when it's based on a percentage) at the time of deposit what the max bet will be while the bonus playthrough is active.

Also, you'll p robably get more help and views of this in this forum instead of this one: Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
The max bet rule is an improvement from before, where they just had a vague general term about bonus abuse. I assume it was added due to all the people trying to take a bonus and putting the whole deposit on a single hand of blackjack, then complaining they didn't violate any terms.

Here is the one real bonus term, from their general terms:

Professional players or players considered, in our sole discretion, to be abusing the bonus system by any means may have bonuses revoked and be subject to further sanctions.

In other words, they have the sole right to determine bonus use, and they can and will use it if they believe they are in the right. And since they are unregulated and virtually in control of themselves, if you decide to play there, you are pretty much under their complete control. Your "lawyer" (which to be honest I'm 90% sure is just you) has no influence over a self-regulating casino.

With the above said, they're still probably one of the best choices for players as long as you don't do anything stupid. You're just at their mercy if something does go wrong (which it usually doesn't, but it would be a bit better for the peace of mind to have some more assurance.) It's not like you're going to find better at many other US facing casinos.

Regarding the placement of the max bet rule, yes it is a bit weird that they put it under a section labeled wagering contribution chart. But as you mentioned and saw yourself, it's also available in the full terms. It is labeled "help," but if you actually read it, which I know you did, it clearly states that it contains more details about bonus terms and conditions.

6.4. Bonus programs are intended for recreational players only. Professional players or players considered, in our sole discretion, to be abusing the bonus system by any means may have bonuses revoked and be subject to further sanctions. Bonus abuse may be defined as (but not restricted to) clients cashing out for the purpose of re-depositing, depositing on top of an existing balance, or creating new Accounts that they are using themselves. Sanctions may be in the form of increased rollover requirements or loss of bonus privileges altogether for the offending Account as well as any linked Accounts. We reserve the right to restrict eligibility for special offers and bonuses when necessary. This includes but is not limited to placing geographic restrictions on match bonuses due to bonus abuse. Please refer to the
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for further information regarding additional details concerning the eligibility, conditions, terms and usage of bonuses offered.

The long and short of it is that you're completely, 100% screwed here. I'd put the odds of you getting paid at like 1/1000. If your goal is to use the forum to try to pressure this site, I can assure you that you are wasting your time and slots.lv won't care. I do agree with you that the link to the bonus terms from the specific promotion page should be labeled better, but that's about all.

Another thing to bear in mind, affiliates are almost always independent of casinos, and you should be careful of treating everything on them as fact. Even the well intentioned and responsible affiliates probably won't be able to keep up to date on every aspect of each casino they work with. And no way the casinos themselves will allow you to break a term because an affiliate doesn't have it listed correctly.
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
To add to the above since I was in a bit of a rush earlier, it does suck that they gave you the runaround on communication when they were probably never going to pay you. I also agree with you that the term you mentioned should be front and center, but it's not exactly uncommon for a casino to put a max bet rule in the general terms or general bonus terms (as opposed to terms for a particular bonus).

It sucks but the reality is you have to look through ALL the terms if you want to be safe. That's why I don't recommend online casinos to people any more these days, you basically have to act like a lawyer before you make a deposit. If it's there, they can use it against you. Some of the better casinos will give lenience, but even then it's only some - there are definitely some "good" casinos that will take all your money the second you violate a max bet or restricted game.

And if you're depositing $45-$80 and betting $20 a spin right off the bat, especially doing that several times, you're probably not going to get any lenience on broken terms, no matter where you play. Bovada group is one I would put in the "might" give lenience category, but not when it's that extreme. Even if you were betting 15-20% of your deposit on slots, technically within the terms and conditions, I can't say for sure whether you'd get paid. Like if you did it one time, maybe, if you did it every deposit, I'd be worried. That's the way it is, either have to deal with it, pick another casino which has its own upsides and downsides, or not play.
 
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pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
Yeah I agree with the above posts. it seems like you knew the wagering requirements could have been a possibility and it's in the terms hidden or not. If it's there than that's binding and it's up to the casino to make a decision. Based upon what I see it seems you won't be paid. These casinos have millions of dollars and don't care about 25k that much. They wouldn't pay you if it was 50 buck payout either. So I would just suck it up and start over. maybe call and ask if anything can be done at all and maybe they will credit your buy in back so you can start over. Live and learn.
 

Savatage79

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
I dunno, I mean if someone wants to blow their deposits in 3 or 4 spins off multiple deposits in hopes to connect with a nice hit to expand their balance and keep trying, I don't see anything wrong with that as most of the time at 20 a spin you're gonna melt it quick. But to me that seems like fair play, unless they did have a max bet rule which as stated they didn't.

But this goes back to my rule of I don't care how good bonuses are, they find reasons to fuck you ...so thats why the 100k+ I've won over the last few years is all mine and not a single bonus horse shit hitch. If I don't have 3 or 400 to deposit then I don't, I don't rely on their goofy ass bonuses so they can just make up reasons to not pay. Every dime I put in is straight outa my pocket.

But its not that I wouldn't like to use bonuses but these type of stories is why I don't, id be raging so hard if I won 28k and they had reasons to not pay
 

Savatage79

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
I just dont take bonus,s any more,too much of a minefield,losing that kind of amount would finish my online playing forever.

Spot on. When I put my money in I know its my buck and any winning is simply not disputable. The idea of playing with a casinos money in any kind of fashion in itself just spells trouble when any big money is concerned
 

CMPS831

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
Thank you for the responses, I will be back tomorrow to reply to each comment.

I guess I'm more than a little surprised by the general sentiment that it's ok (or at least not a big deal) for a very highly rated casino to hide the rules, allow affiliates to falsely advertise the most important rules and also to use vague "non recreational" terms to not pay big winnings.

Furthermore, Slots.lv has still not updated their rules or contacted the affiliates that have incorrect information months after this issue was brought to their attention. Such inaction leads me to believe they are intentionally misleading their players to their great advantage. At best, it's incompetence and they should not have the right to deny my winnings (basically freeroll me) based on these abnormalities. At least not if they wish to be considered an honorable place to play.
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
I dunno, I mean if someone wants to blow their deposits in 3 or 4 spins off multiple deposits in hopes to connect with a nice hit to expand their balance and keep trying, I don't see anything wrong with that as most of the time at 20 a spin you're gonna melt it quick. But to me that seems like fair play, unless they did have a max bet rule which as stated they didn't.

But this goes back to my rule of I don't care how good bonuses are, they find reasons to fuck you ...so thats why the 100k+ I've won over the last few years is all mine and not a single bonus horse shit hitch. If I don't have 3 or 400 to deposit then I don't, I don't rely on their goofy ass bonuses so they can just make up reasons to not pay. Every dime I put in is straight outa my pocket.

But its not that I wouldn't like to use bonuses but these type of stories is why I don't, id be raging so hard if I won 28k and they had reasons to not pay

Is the $100k total cashouts or net winnings? If you're talking net winnings that's an amazing run, but it probably can't last forever. The strings that come with bonuses are definitely annoying, but pretty sure I'd be another 20k or 30k in the hole without them (well, I probably would have just cut down my slot playing a lot more before then.) There were some Rival slots I felt like gave me a good chance to win without a bonus that I used to play all the time, now I barely even play them with a bonus though since I'm pretty sure they changed them for the worse.

As I think I've said before, these casinos are designed from the ground up to be profitable while giving out these big bonuses, so its even tougher to win without them. If bonuses simply didn't exist, the games would pay better (but bonuses aren't going anywhere, so games won't be getting any better).

At some point you might have to make the decision between taking bonuses or just getting killed at the games over and over and over if your luck turns sour - which hurts with bonuses, but adds up even faster without them.

Regarding betting all your money in like 5-10 spins on a deposit, it's fine if you do it without bonuses but casinos want you to churn your money over and over so they won't let you do it with a bonus. They want you putting your money in the machine as many times as possible. There might even be some casinos that won't be too happy if you do it without a bonus, especially if they offer cashback on non-bonus deposits.
 
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Savatage79

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
Is the $100k total cashouts or net winnings? If you're talking net winnings that's an amazing run, but it probably can't last forever. The strings that come with bonuses are definitely annoying, but pretty sure I'd be another 20k or 30k in the hole without them (well, I probably would have just cut down my slot playing a lot more before then.) There were some Rival slots I felt like gave me a good chance to win without a bonus that I used to play all the time, now I barely even play them with a bonus though since I'm pretty sure they changed them for the worse.

As I think I've said before, these casinos are designed from the ground up to be profitable while giving out these big bonuses, so its even tougher to win without them. If bonuses simply didn't exist, the games would pay better (but bonuses aren't going anywhere, so games won't be getting any better).

At some point you might have to make the decision between taking bonuses or just getting killed at the games over and over and over if your luck turns sour - which hurts with bonuses, but adds up even faster without them.

Regarding betting all your money in like 5-10 spins on a deposit, it's fine if you do it without bonuses but casinos want you to churn your money over and over so they won't let you do it with a bonus. They want you putting your money in the machine as many times as possible. There might even be some casinos that won't be too happy if you do it without a bonus, especially if they offer cashback on non-bonus deposits.

Cashouts Zreb, oh believe me I'm already in a cold snap ...I mean im cashing out but not in the massive chunks I was. For about 3 years there I was on the hottest streaks ever to where people just flat out didn't believe me ,I had to start taking pictures of my checks and my cash outs so that friends would believe me. I was just on fire and like I said I still cash out regularly but not in such massive amounts, but it was all done on bovada, sloto and inetbet

The only place I used bonuses was Posh as they were 200% your deposit with no max cash out and the rollover was very small, it was actually to good to pass on but I beat them up for about 20k and they turned them off and I haven't played there since. But out of all my playing that was really the only place I used bonuses as the other sites and their x25 x30 is just nuts to me, so I don't even do them. I figure I play what i got and nothing can be distorted as a reason to void winnings so I stick with it
 
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CMPS831

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
I will just give my two cents here. I play on Sots.lv, Bovada, and ignition almost daily. I have never heard of any of these sites having a max bet rule.

This is the first time I have ever heard of this.

However, the fact you are posting percentages and calculating everyone shows that you aren’t just a recreational player. It honestly looks like your only reason for playing was to to try and make money and beat the system.

If I ran one of these sites I would honestly think what you are doing seems strange.

I don’t think many people would bet 20.00 nonstop.

I have gone over the average bet a few times on other sites accidentally and they still paid me. I had this happen on Casino Brango and they made an exception and paid me because it was something I only did a few times and it was an accident.

Betting such large amounts just to clear playthrough and cash out would be a red flag at most sites.

However, Since none of their other sites do this and you obviously had no idea about it I think they should still pay you. So I am on your side as far as you being paid is concerned.

But that’s only because I have never heard of them having a max bet rule at all. I know most sites make it clear right up front that you can’t bet more than 5 or 10 bucks.

So I think you should be paid. But, I don’t necessarily think you played recreationally. Either way you should be paid and everyone should now know there are max bet rules. Maybe they should make an exception?

You would have to call and talk to a supervisor.

But to be 100% honest with you. I would not mess around like that at any of there sites. These people aren’t people you want to mess with from what I gather. I had issues with them in the past and worked it out though so you never know.

I would cal them on the phone. I don’t think they have any reps here. They don’t need affiliates for the most part. They make a ton on there sports. So cal and try to get paid and if you do I wouldn’t ever do this again on there.

Just my opinion. Good luck and I hope you get your money.

Thank you for the response but I don't think calling a supervisor will help. I have already had two complaints rejected by Slots.lv DRO (dispute resolution office).

I gave those numbers because in one of their responses, they said I used a "do or die" strategy which is betting all the money right away so I wanted to show that I did not bet all the funds right away.

I don't really understand how they can have vague rules like "non recreational play." Furthermore, almost all the rules they sent me (and list in the hidden sections) discuss betting large to get ahead and then going to a lower variance strategy to meet the rollover. I played the exact opposite manner by raising my bets when I was winning. Well (not that this should be relevant), but which is the "non recreational" strategy? Betting big to start and then reducing the bet, or raising the bet when winning and playing my hot streak?

I certainly would not play like this again and I now know the maximum wager rule. My main argument is that this, along with the other bonus rules, are absurdly hidden so that a reasonable reading of the rules would not find it. Regardless, I certainly would never play here again as they are not honest in the way they post their rules. I wonder in what other manners they are dishonest. I am amazed that others think this is reasonable.

I notice that KasinoKing liked your response. I assume this is the same kasinoking that runs the kasinoking website. If this is the case, what do you think of Slots.lv allowing you to not only not only post inaccurate information but to continue to allow this inaccurate for months?

If Slots.lv is allowed to not pay these fairly won winnings, then no one is safe from any casino hiding their rules and freerolling its players.
 

CMPS831

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
The max bet rule is an improvement from before, where they just had a vague general term about bonus abuse. I assume it was added due to all the people trying to take a bonus and putting the whole deposit on a single hand of blackjack, then complaining they didn't violate any terms.

Here is the one real bonus term, from their general terms:



In other words, they have the sole right to determine bonus use, and they can and will use it if they believe they are in the right. And since they are unregulated and virtually in control of themselves, if you decide to play there, you are pretty much under their complete control. Your "lawyer" (which to be honest I'm 90% sure is just you) has no influence over a self-regulating casino.

With the above said, they're still probably one of the best choices for players as long as you don't do anything stupid. You're just at their mercy if something does go wrong (which it usually doesn't, but it would be a bit better for the peace of mind to have some more assurance.) It's not like you're going to find better at many other US facing casinos.

Regarding the placement of the max bet rule, yes it is a bit weird that they put it under a section labeled wagering contribution chart. But as you mentioned and saw yourself, it's also available in the full terms. It is labeled "help," but if you actually read it, which I know you did, it clearly states that it contains more details about bonus terms and conditions.



The long and short of it is that you're completely, 100% screwed here. I'd put the odds of you getting paid at like 1/1000. If your goal is to use the forum to try to pressure this site, I can assure you that you are wasting your time and slots.lv won't care. I do agree with you that the link to the bonus terms from the specific promotion page should be labeled better, but that's about all.

Another thing to bear in mind, affiliates are almost always independent of casinos, and you should be careful of treating everything on them as fact. Even the well intentioned and responsible affiliates probably won't be able to keep up to date on every aspect of each casino they work with. And no way the casinos themselves will allow you to break a term because an affiliate doesn't have it listed correctly.
First of all, I can assure you that an attorney was representing me and sent two letters to Slots.lv DRO. Slots.lv can easily confirm this is the case, but this is immaterial.

So let me understand, Slots.lv is one of the best US facing casinos but it's ok for them to hide the most important terms and conditions under "help" at the very bottom of a very long section that is not even directly linked to in the exact terms and conditions of all of their bonuses. Why are the rules not linked to and properly labeled in the "double up" rules?

And this wonderful casino must have so many affiliate sites that they cannot bother to ask them to update their rules.

Once again, I am amazed that this forum does not think Slots.lv behavior is outrageous and that I should be paid.

And what about their not answering my calls and not calling when they said they would and stringing me along for two weeks only to then tell me that I would not be paid.

Is this really ok for them to behave this way without facing strong criticism or censure if they do not change their minds and pay me?
 

CMPS831

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
I dunno, I mean if someone wants to blow their deposits in 3 or 4 spins off multiple deposits in hopes to connect with a nice hit to expand their balance and keep trying, I don't see anything wrong with that as most of the time at 20 a spin you're gonna melt it quick. But to me that seems like fair play, unless they did have a max bet rule which as stated they didn't.

But this goes back to my rule of I don't care how good bonuses are, they find reasons to fuck you ...so thats why the 100k+ I've won over the last few years is all mine and not a single bonus horse shit hitch. If I don't have 3 or 400 to deposit then I don't, I don't rely on their goofy ass bonuses so they can just make up reasons to not pay. Every dime I put in is straight outa my pocket.

But its not that I wouldn't like to use bonuses but these type of stories is why I don't, id be raging so hard if I won 28k and they had reasons to not pay
Thank you for the support and response. I guess I'm still shocked that this behavior is tolerated by a casino seemingly so highly regarded by so many seemingly honorable affiliate sites. I'd very much like one of them to stand up for me here and ask them to pay or otherwise be removed from the lists of highly regarded gaming websites.
 

ESCJAMIE

He/Him. High Voltage Only
MM
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Location
UK South west
Thank you for the support and response. I guess I'm still shocked that this behavior is tolerated by a casino seemingly so highly regarded by so many seemingly honorable affiliate sites. I'd very much like one of them to stand up for me here and ask them to pay or otherwise be removed from the lists of highly regarded gaming websites.
you already got an attorney involved that's way more powerful than what a.website \forum can do for you. Hope it's no win no fee attorney cause it's looking like you not going to be paid and have a big lawyer bill
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
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Location
Bexhill on sea, England
I notice that KasinoKing liked your response. I assume this is the same kasinoking that runs the kasinoking website. If this is the case, what do you think of Slots.lv allowing you to not only not only post inaccurate information but to continue to allow this inaccurate for months?
I would never knowingly post inaccurate information - just like you, I was unaware that they had a max bet rule as it is not stated in the general terms for the bonus.
However, after seeing your post above I looked again and found they DO link to a "Wagering Contribution" page where the max bet is clearly stated.

For me to constantly check every detail of the terms in every casino I list is impossible, and that is why on my pages you will see a note like this:
"All the data in the tables above is given as a guide and is correct to the best of our ability.
But T&C’s are constantly changing and can vary from one country to another, so we can’t guarantee that everything is 100% accurate: It is your responsibility to check the casino’s website for up-to-date information before depositing."

Likewise it would also be a near impossible task forSlots.lv to constantly check every affiliate site for errors.

Now that you have brought this to my attention, I will correct my sites today.

KK
 

Savatage79

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
I'm not trying to rain on your parade man but sitting in my truck getting my coffee I pulled up slots lv and in like 3 clicks I came to the rule in question

"
10. Unless stated otherwise on the specific bonus landing pages, all bonuses have a max bet restriction relative to the deposit amount. Failure to adhere to this ‘max bet’ rule may result in account closure, forfeit of the Bonus and any winnings generated during the wagering of the Bonus.

Any wagers using deposited funds or bonus funds prior to bonus completion are subject to the following maximums:

  • Casino max bet per wager - 20% of deposited amount
Now I know you've stated you know this exists but sadly I don't think it's as hidden as you'd want it to be, just sayin is all.

A long time ago I messed up on this stuff and it's why I don't use them, but again I mean I never go to slots lv and I found that super quick man.
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
First of all, I can assure you that an attorney was representing me and sent two letters to Slots.lv DRO. Slots.lv can easily confirm this is the case, but this is immaterial.

I fully believe you had someone send them letters claiming to be an attorney. Just not convinced that "someone" wasn't you.

In any case, if you really did hire an attorney, they are probably either ripping you off or a terrible lawyer. What legal jurisdiction do you think will take your case or allow you to exert pressure? It's an unregulated online casino. To my knowledge they don't even have a licence from some rubber stamp regulator/impoverished country. All you've done is convince them to ignore you.

So let me understand, Slots.lv is one of the best US facing casinos but it's ok for them to hide the most important terms and conditions under "help" at the very bottom of a very long section that is not even directly linked to in the exact terms and conditions of all of their bonuses. Why are the rules not linked to and properly labeled in the "double up" rules?

It is linked to both in the general terms and specific bonus, it just has a poor label of "wagering contributions" in the link from the specific bonus. I agree that's a poor name, but compared to all of the problems with US facing casinos that's got to be one of the absolute smallest.

I already explained to you above anyway, though you likely don't care since it won't help you get your money back. Their one real term is "no bonus abuse/professional/advantage play," and that they have the full right to decide what is bonus abuse as they see fit. Even if that 20% term weren't there, they would likely not have paid you, the same as they confiscated money from a bunch of blackjack players who bet the whole balance on a single hand before that term even existed. The reality is they didn't take your winnings because of the term, but because they consider you to be intentionally playing with an advantage against them.

And yes, the fact that they operate in this way is a potential downside of bovada group, but I haven't heard of many cases of people running afoul of them who didn't know exactly what they were doing. Still, the fact that they could is a bit concerning. But that's pretty much the only major downside they have relative to other casinos, so being adequate in most other ways is enough to put them near the top of the list. Other US facing casinos generally have their own share of problems.

And what about their not answering my calls and not calling when they said they would and stringing me along for two weeks only to then tell me that I would not be paid.

Already mentioned that above. I have seen some stories posted online of them giving people grief/hassle/interrogating over the phone, which is not ideal, but the vast majority of players never experience this.

Is this really ok for them to behave this way without facing strong criticism or censure if they do not change their minds and pay me?

Yes. Of course, you're welcome to post your experiences and thoughts as you've done and people can decide for themselves whether or not they're okay with it.

Also bear in mind, even if the forum was in 100% support and agreement with you, you still wouldn't be getting paid, and it would probably have very little influence on bovada group's bottom line. Their target market isn't well informed players who look up reviews and forum discussions.
 
Last edited:

Reckless Bets

Newbie member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
US
The only truly unfortunate thing I see here is that the Bovada group (Slots.lv, Bovada, CafeCasino, and Ignition) added this max bet clause at some undisclosed date not too long ago, and as far as I'm aware, made no effort to alert existing players of the change.

Personally I think it's unreasonable to expect players to read all bonus terms each and every time they deposit with a bonus (obviously you always should the first time).

As I've stated, it would be trivial for the casinos to add either a generic '20% max bet rule in affect' note on the deposit page or make it even more user-friendly and specifically calculate the max bet allowable based on the user's deposit. But of course they don't do that because casinos love using relatively obscure terms to void winnings and not pay out, they don't truly care about the user experience.
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
Unlike many/most RTG casinos, I doubt they blindly enforce the max bet rule, but I could be wrong. There are some casinos that give you explicit rules and will probably pay you if you follow them, but will take your winnings for the smallest violation.

Bovada group is the exact opposite of this - very vague rules, won't take your winnings for some minor infraction, but if they're convinced you're trying to pull one over on them they'll probably take your winnings even if you broke no explicit rules. So really adding the rule probably didn't change anything, it just gives them something to point to.

They have a huge userbase and for the most part it seems to work just fine for everyone involved, but there's still that bit of unease that if you hit a really big win that they could take it away without doing anything wrong, even though it's 99% you'd get paid.
 

CMPS831

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
I'm not trying to rain on your parade man but sitting in my truck getting my coffee I pulled up slots lv and in like 3 clicks I came to the rule in question

"
10. Unless stated otherwise on the specific bonus landing pages, all bonuses have a max bet restriction relative to the deposit amount. Failure to adhere to this ‘max bet’ rule may result in account closure, forfeit of the Bonus and any winnings generated during the wagering of the Bonus.

Any wagers using deposited funds or bonus funds prior to bonus completion are subject to the following maximums:

  • Casino max bet per wager - 20% of deposited amount
Now I know you've stated you know this exists but sadly I don't think it's as hidden as you'd want it to be, just sayin is all.

A long time ago I messed up on this stuff and it's why I don't use them, but again I mean I never go to slots lv and I found that super quick man.

I appreciate your point of view but can you tell me which 3 clicks you made? Yes, it's easy to get to the terms and conditions if you click the right links. But my argument is that these clicks are not intuitive and are very hidden. Why put the bonus rules under "wagering contribution"? Why link to slots.lv and not the general terms of service and then why put the most important rules in a link at the very end of long section within a nine page (screenshot)? These rules are so mislabled that I should not be punished by having my winnings confiscated. Furthermore, other than the 20% breech, I played in the exact opposite way that their terms imply would be bonus abuse. Almost all their terms address betting large to get ahead and then betting small or reducing variance. I continued to increase my wager when I was running hot and ended with the highest spins of my session.

Once again, the bonus rules are listed below. Why is the only direct link to the rules listed in "wagering contribution chart?" I read this, read the terms of service (except did not click the tiny "help" at the bottom of the terms of service (which by the way is NOT linked to in the terms below) and saw the affiliate that clearly said "no max wager." This is not fair. The casino is freerolling (some of) their players by mislabeling the links to the rules and allowing incorrect information to be easily accessible.

How reputable sites can say this is ok is remarkable to me. This means these casinos, including the most highly rated ones, are not held to any reasonable standard at all.
 

CMPS831

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
Unlike many/most RTG casinos, I doubt they blindly enforce the max bet rule, but I could be wrong. There are some casinos that give you explicit rules and will probably pay you if you follow them, but will take your winnings for the smallest violation.

Bovada group is the exact opposite of this - very vague rules, won't take your winnings for some minor infraction, but if they're convinced you're trying to pull one over on them they'll probably take your winnings even if you broke no explicit rules. So really adding the rule probably didn't change anything, it just gives them something to point to.

They have a huge userbase and for the most part it seems to work just fine for everyone involved, but there's still that bit of unease that if you hit a really big win that they could take it away without doing anything wrong, even though it's 99% you'd get paid.
So I'm a desirable player who loves to gamble wildly including raising my wagers to the highest level when ahead until I win big and that's when they decide to enforce the rules that are listed in hidden places?
 

Savatage79

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
So I did just that pretty much, I went to the site and I clicked promotions , I selected the daily double up, and I scrolled down a bit and I seen a link in pink which is wagering contribution chart , I clicked that and number 10 states all bonuses have max restrictions. But I mean that pink link was itching to be clicked so I feel i would have scoured thru any and all links.

I think its because i got burned before on something with a bonus, not this size obviously, but enough to where it made me weary of any and all bonuses that I click every link to see OR I will ask if I ever used a small bonus as I want to know 100% what I'm dealing with.

It sucks man ,I get ya ...but I just think you're screwed and its one hard lesson learned in working with bonuses, sad as it may seem
 

CMPS831

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
I would never knowingly post inaccurate information - just like you, I was unaware that they had a max bet rule as it is not stated in the general terms for the bonus.
However, after seeing your post above I looked again and found they DO link to a "Wagering Contribution" page where the max bet is clearly stated.

For me to constantly check every detail of the terms in every casino I list is impossible, and that is why on my pages you will see a note like this:
"All the data in the tables above is given as a guide and is correct to the best of our ability.
But T&C’s are constantly changing and can vary from one country to another, so we can’t guarantee that everything is 100% accurate: It is your responsibility to check the casino’s website for up-to-date information before depositing."

Likewise it would also be a near impossible task forSlots.lv to constantly check every affiliate site for errors.

Now that you have brought this to my attention, I will correct my sites today.

KK

I am absolutely not accusing you of the responsibility of knowing and updating all of the rules. I am accusing them of either intentionally allowing you to post the wrong rules or being too negligent/inept to inform you.

Are there really that many affiliate sites that they can't contact them to make sure the information is accurate? Now I don't know how many affiliates sites there are, but it just can't be that many that a major casino group like slots.lv/bovada is unable to up their affiliates websites. Note again that this was all put into a formal complaint to them at the end of May with your specific site and they still never thought to contact you or change the way their rules are written. "Wagering contribution chart" does NOT equal bonus terms and conditions.

What I would really like is for someone like you to look into the situation and their hidden rules and at least express an opinion that I acted in a reasonable manner and should have my balance restored. I don't think it's fair to just say that's too bad that slots.lv mislabels and hides their rules and the player is taken advantage of. Giving me back my deposits is not fair because I could have lost for a very long time and the casino would have won a lot. Instead, I won and the casino doesn't want to pay.

I'm very happy to share the correspondence with the casino with you in the hopes that an affiliate like yourself will make a public statement on my behalf that they will stop advertising slots.lv as a highly reputable casino unless my case is fairly reviewed by an independent party and not their DRO. I believe such a review would determine that my effort to determine the rules was very reasonable and that the rules are mislabeled and hidden and therefore I should be paid my winnings.

Once again, here are the rules, as October 1, 2020, over four months after the initial complaint to Slots.lv dispute resolution office: Note that there is are specific instructions where I can find my playthrough requirement yet I am supposed to know that I need to click "wagering contribution chart" in order to know the actual rules. My argument is why would I think it necessary to click this link? And by hiding the rules there, I was playing in a no win situation. Had I lost 50k before winning I'd be out a lot of money even if they paid me in full. But being I had a large winning streak with less deposits than I won, they think it's ok to not pay me.

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