Tips Reduced Slot RTP's - How YOU Are Affected!

[slot_zombie]

Even though it's bonus buy, it's a solid sample to get idea of rRTP and reach somewhere near tRTP within SD. (with over 50k bonus buys)

Have you managed to get a max 5000x win? With such a sample, it can be expected to be 10+ max wins.

Not sure what's the chance of winning free spins in the base game, but assuming bonus buy is 100xbet, it should be in the range of 1:200 + ; and chance of getting max win without bonus buy is 1/697350.

I've had 7 max wins.

 

[deleted20230517]

I never had a max win on Gates... I did had it on Madame destiny, fruit party and a bunch of more games.

Gates? Hell no. But i learned that after playing on a BTC based casino, the fun is quite better to be honest. Games are stretched to a 96.97% version on which "normal" casino's only have 96.5% as a absolute highest. I'm sure there is difference in versions such as volatility, frequency and what more to "suit" the casino. Best part is, the instant payout(s) so far, on which a normal casino, even with all today's tech, is locked at a minimum of 48 hours, with the option to cancel...

Had a crazy run today, from 500$ deposit all the way up to 5500$. Nice cashout that was. In <5 minutes on my wallet.

 

[slot_zombie]

I may be gone some time.

Gates Of Heaven (GATES OF OLYMPUS CLONE) - 98% RTP out today.

 

[slot_zombie]

Just ran 80 bonus buys through it and first impressions with half the house edge it feels a lot more forgiving than Gates.

Better tumbles, more multis crashing in. Up $150 so far.

I do know my Gates like the back of my hand, and it does seem like an improvement, but still early days and we will see.

 

[deleted20230517]

Yeah and once people get used to it watch the RTP turned back suddenly. I hate it. its just a cash grab for casino's / providers.

 

[deleted20230517]

I wrote the legislator, since none of the casino's can give me a proper answer to the obvious.

Hello,

I play for 5 years by now on *country* online casino's, from *country*.

I however never seem to get ahead in comparison to what i deposit. Why is this ? And why is there a difference in casino A being more tight to casino B in *country*? Why is that difference, if the "RTP" or "mathematical" thing should be random and appearantly unique?

Is it true that casino's here are setup in such a way that i'm basicly gambling against my own money?

A casino is never going to give me the proper answer, due to the NDA's it likely signed, and always responds to me with a default copy paste message.

I mean the best given example is, if i have a losing streak, i can kind of assume that on most games on the board i will likely lose and deplete my deposit quite fast. When i'm on a winning streak it is all the games all over the board hitting one after another. This is usually to a certain soft or hard limit of a balance, to where it starts making me lose again. This is obviously a pattern that ive seen with over 3 casino's here in *country* and it's no coincidence.

Its like i'm betting against my own money depositted over a certain amount of time. If slots where to be random, or if winning streaks where to be completely random, why is this behaviour after "peaking" to a certain level of funds, always yielding in a downward spiral no matter what you do? I can switch to a 15 different games and be rinsed financially all over the board.

I'd like to know if my assumption is correct, because if thats the case, i'm quitting to play on Online casino's in *country* in general, and switch over to BTC based ones. To be honest, for the money i'm depositting at those BTC casino's i'm getting quite more fun or action compared to these *country* casino's. One even being more tight then the other.

Games are licenced to showcase in the portfolio of the casino. I think my winnings overall come from the casino itself and not the provider. The provider is the one that provides the math and tools, but in general i dont believe that one slot or a set of slots could even pay more then the games are being wagered on as a sort of safety precaution. The obvious, soft limit appearing in game when winning, and the hard limit i can see it's there too. I always seem to have the same action; 7 out of 10 deposits are bust. Here and there you can get a win but in general it will land you two times on that value, before it starts to make you lose again. These are obvious patterns that i can tell from various casino's. Some people who see me play don't believe me that when i have this winning streak, i just seem to perfectly understand which buttons to play and when i can tell that party is over.

All that is'nt random. The only thing random happening is when out of those 7 to 10 deposits are going to give a (proper) return.

I hope a get a response, and a clear explanation on why this casino behaviour is happening on all 3 to 5 casino's i used to play at. At some i even closed my account, because of the appearant and strict slots they have running. They don't like winners.

To be honest, it's no fun for me lately knowing or seeing the obvious. I hope someone of that legislation reaches out to me. If so, perhaps there can be a definitive answer to what i'm looking at for years here. If thats the case, instant closure of my account(s), a big fuck you, and i'm out.

 

[toms596]

I've often wondered does a provider use one RNG for all their games?

Many times you have sessions where everything bonuses and plays well and then the complete opposite where everything goes dead.

 

[deleted20230517]

As i said, the best case evidence for this is,

The 7 out of 10 deposits. Most of the time your held on a very tiny red string, and when it pops off it's usually across the board, all games, even the games that never seem to paid and suddenly it does.

I've bin dealing with this for some time now, ive asked the question quite often here. And i either got mocked or boo'd away from it. But it's getting more appearant and i'm not the only one. The fact that you have new released games with juiced RTP's up to 98% to be turned down the second the game becomes populair. I mean upon release sugar rush it was a fest of wins, and now it's turned to absolute junk.

People now cheering about having 4 scatters n shit, a proper bonus is at least 100x your betsize, and not this teasing nonsense in which more and more games seem to exceed in now. Best example gates of olympus; great *insert multi* x start to have you spit out in the next couple of dead spins.

The experience is just turning to complete shit if you ask me. I think BTC based casino's ( unfortunately ) are a bit of the new safe havens. I used to be extremely carefull with these but i slowly got into it. The RTP's are the highest among the industry it seems and the best part a withdrawal is processed within 10 minutes. Within 5 hours it's on my bank account. A normal licenced casino (where i play from) maintains a 48 hour delay...

If casino's impose a change, place a phat warning. A dialog since you last visit "The $variable has changed from X to Y" - Then at least we know what we're up against. Casino's and providers are becoming more and more greedy, because they have established themself at this point. Who in their right mind would go out to a landbased now while it's ease of access to online casino's.

 

[slot_zombie]

Last Gates post.

Just to note that there's been a software update today and as a result, GOH now has possibly one of the most amped-up, OTT, dramatic sound packages in slot history.

The bozo on the right who throws out the multipliers now has a voice, and he's not afraid to use it.

FEEL MY POWER! HIDDEN TREASURES! LORD OF GOLD! and other assorted catchphrases are shouted at the player whenever there is any action on-screen. It's fairly nuts now.

 

[snorky510238]

I've often wondered does a provider use one RNG for all their games?

Many times you have sessions where everything bonuses and plays well and then the complete opposite where everything goes dead.

It’s definitely not just pot luck as we are led to believe that is for sure.

Online gambling absolutely sinks at present and will only get worse. The whole industry needs a thorough investigation. It happened 20 years too late with FOBT’s and here we go again.

The whole industry is corrupt but at the same time untouchable.

 

[justdoit]

It’s definitely not just pot luck as we are led to believe that is for sure.

Online gambling absolutely sinks at present and will only get worse. The whole industry needs a thorough investigation. It happened 20 years too late with FOBT’s and here we go again.

The whole industry is corrupt but at the same time untouchable.

I agree that is corrupt start from top (MPs) down to casinos, not surprised if UK MPs even get money from crypto casinos, foreigner like me I can go to central London casino spend £1000s no one will ask me anything about affordability, but Brits need affordability check to spend £150pm is crazy what is happen... UK MPs are like Mafia Boss

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[deleted20230517]

That's what lobbists are paid for obviously... Lobby in their best interest. Not the public.

 

[FAZI1]

One fast question offered same slots in demo mode in higher RTP% and in real mode in lower rtp% is normal things? im noticed example Tsars do this in case Pragmatic slots after we click demo button in any of their pragmatic slots then its display 96% RTP but when we click Real Mode play in any of their Pragmatic slots is show 94% RTP - Slots shoudnt have same same set ups rtp% in demo and real mode ?

 

[dunover]

One fast question offered same slots in demo mode in higher RTP% and in real mode in lower rtp% is normal things? im noticed example Tsars.com - Online Casino do this in case Pragmatic slots after we click demo button in any of their pragmatic slots then its display 96% RTP but when we click Real Mode play in any of their Pragmatic slots is show 94% RTP - Slots shoudnt have same same set ups rtp% in demo and real mode ?

Yes, they should in any decent jurisdiction, obviously a shithole site.

 

[FAZI1]

Yes, they should in any decent jurisdiction, obviously a shithole site.

Yep this casino win Best casino of the Year in AskG site in last years thats clear show how industry if full of trap ( by the way all voice they buy for promised free spins for players offered for vote on them and show in live chat screnshot vote )

 

[snorky510238]

That’s nothing! Videoslots advertise rtp’s that come nowhere near being met yet nothing happens to them. Close between them and BTG for crooks of the year.

P.S. Thought it was really harsh they didn’t win it last year.

 

[CasinoNinja]

Even Tombola have "adjusted" their RTP now, not by much. But we can see where this is going.

From 98.25% on their slots to 98%?

 

[xheldx]

As i said, the best case evidence for this is,

The 7 out of 10 deposits. Most of the time your held on a very tiny red string, and when it pops off it's usually across the board, all games, even the games that never seem to paid and suddenly it does.

I've bin dealing with this for some time now, ive asked the question quite often here. And i either got mocked or boo'd away from it. But it's getting more appearant and i'm not the only one. The fact that you have new released games with juiced RTP's up to 98% to be turned down the second the game becomes populair. I mean upon release sugar rush it was a fest of wins, and now it's turned to absolute junk.

People now cheering about having 4 scatters n shit, a proper bonus is at least 100x your betsize, and not this teasing nonsense in which more and more games seem to exceed in now. Best example gates of olympus; great *insert multi* x start to have you spit out in the next couple of dead spins.

The experience is just turning to complete shit if you ask me. I think BTC based casino's ( unfortunately ) are a bit of the new safe havens. I used to be extremely carefull with these but i slowly got into it. The RTP's are the highest among the industry it seems and the best part a withdrawal is processed within 10 minutes. Within 5 hours it's on my bank account. A normal licenced casino (where i play from) maintains a 48 hour delay...

If casino's impose a change, place a phat warning. A dialog since you last visit "The $variable has changed from X to Y" - Then at least we know what we're up against. Casino's and providers are becoming more and more greedy, because they have established themself at this point. Who in their right mind would go out to a landbased now while it's ease of access to online casino's.

This feels so true sometimes and I also wonder whetever a userid is tie to its own RTP on some sites. Because if a game goes hot i know the other games go hot also. I am a big winner and I follow my stats, when my overall site RTP hits 95-96% sites go completely dead so I have to transfer my winnings from other sites to risk them playing in a different way. If i hit my own RTP as i call it games can be dead for weeks. Maybe my brain follow patterns but it keep me on winning more than loosing.

 

[deleted20230517]

Really i'm not going to throw in (more) money to "prove" the obvious thats bin going on.

I've bin having quite more fun and action on other places by now.

 

[xheldx]

As i said, the best case evidence for this is,

The 7 out of 10 deposits. Most of the time your held on a very tiny red string, and when it pops off it's usually across the board, all games, even the games that never seem to paid and suddenly it does.

I've bin dealing with this for some time now, ive asked the question quite often here. And i either got mocked or boo'd away from it. But it's getting more appearant and i'm not the only one. The fact that you have new released games with juiced RTP's up to 98% to be turned down the second the game becomes populair. I mean upon release sugar rush it was a fest of wins, and now it's turned to absolute junk.

People now cheering about having 4 scatters n shit, a proper bonus is at least 100x your betsize, and not this teasing nonsense in which more and more games seem to exceed in now. Best example gates of olympus; great *insert multi* x start to have you spit out in the next couple of dead spins.

The experience is just turning to complete shit if you ask me. I think BTC based casino's ( unfortunately ) are a bit of the new safe havens. I used to be extremely carefull with these but i slowly got into it. The RTP's are the highest among the industry it seems and the best part a withdrawal is processed within 10 minutes. Within 5 hours it's on my bank account. A normal licenced casino (where i play from) maintains a 48 hour delay...

If casino's impose a change, place a phat warning. A dialog since you last visit "The $variable has changed from X to Y" - Then at least we know what we're up against. Casino's and providers are becoming more and more greedy, because they have established themself at this point. Who in their right mind would go out to a landbased now while it's ease of access to online casino's.

This feels so true sometimes and I also wonder whetever a userid is tie to its own RTP on some sites. Because if a game goes hot i know the other games go hot also. I am a big winner and I follow my stats, when my overall site RTP hits 95-96% sites go completely dead so I have to transfer my winnings from other sites to risk them playing in a different way. If i hit my own RTP as i call it games can be dead for weeks. Maybe my brain follow patterns but it keep me on winning more than loosing. But the

Really i'm not going to throw in (more) money to "prove" the obvious thats bin going on.

I've bin having quite more fun and action on other places by now.

If this is obvious its probably tied upon a CRM type of control which forces a negative seed to the userid when its loading the game IF over avrage RTP.

Because when it happens its impossible to get a big win, luck and variance dosnt exist, because everything is completely dead until I deposit again, I had the chance to test this with 10000 euro on a site i had overall 96% RTP on.

I had over 50-60x2 bonus rounds on Reactoonz1/2 without any big wins. My wife thought I was crazy, for me it was obvious, everything was dead for weeks. I finally got the cash back when my overall RTP was weaker.
She said: How do you know when to win?

 

[jasonuk]

Given there's an influx of conspiracy to the thread, perhaps it's important to remind that Apophenia is a thing (the ability to perceive patterns or meaningful connections in random or unrelated data). If you think something isn't right, start recording data for it - will give you a more level-headed approach, and possibly something that can be validated by a third party (such as the CM community).

If casino's impose a change, place a phat warning. A dialog since you last visit "The $variable has changed from X to Y" - Then at least we know what we're up against. Casino's and providers are becoming more and more greedy, because they have established themself at this point. Who in their right mind would go out to a landbased now while it's ease of access to online casino's.

Absolutely, and something the UKGC (and other regulators) have dropped the ball on - a casino such as WH sending out an email (as discussed in similar threads), full of broken links, talking about changes to the game without actually mentioning what those changes are, is nigh on useless... and the operators obviously know this given their internal references (which sometimes leak out to URLs) include text like "RTP changes".

I did like that some providers started to surface summary stats in their game help / loading screens - but sadly isn't gaining traction... it really needs the regulators to be pushing that one forward.

The bigger issue for a lot of casual players is they don't understand the shift in playstyles:
* 10 years ago you could play a 96% game, that bonuses every 150-200 spins with a 30-50x bonus average, that you'd have a modest shot at a 300-500x win, and an outside chance at a monster hit (1000x+), but similarly you'd feel pretty hard done by to lose 30% across 250 spins
* Today, there are plenty of 90-94% games, that bonus every 300-600 spins with a 100-200x bonus average (that staggeringly can still pay zero or 1x), where the base game makes paint drying look exciting, and you could easily go 100, 200 or 300 spins without a single 10x win (and in some extreme cases, a 5x win).

So not only are the house winning faster, but players on the wrong end of the ultra high variance curve are going to take an absolute beating because they think about the former but play the latter - plenty of more sensible variance slots out there, still a few casinos offering full-fat RTPs but sadly diminishing quickly...

Would people call that entertainment, or would they call it addiction? It's a close call...

 

[deleted20230517]

It is no secret that same games do impose first deposit triggers in my experience, best example is putting a autospin for 30, 50 to 100 and get the first few spins some action and the rest pretty much zero. Or the usual "near misses" either at when your auto spin is about to end or when your balance is about to bust.

I also noticed that, my action only starts at when i nearly lost my deposit. As if it was programmed to at least wager my money before something happens. They dont want people who do a deposit, in the next spins win big and cash out (all) the remaining.

I just find it strange that out of 10 deposits, 7 are always or by default a bust, while in the middle somewhere i manage to play "even". But it's impossible to break beyond that if you know what i mean. I pretty much threw every strategy at it you can think of.

Once your in that losing downward spiral it's just going to continue untill, your next deposit. And that's even coming from a 2k balance with over 20 games played that all consistent paid bad or just did nothing. You tell me what the magic behind that is.

I mean if slots are random, you'd expect that out of 20 games with each 100 spins played out, something must come out of it right? Well... I'm not going to record my session or trying to prove a point that for me and now slowly others is becoming more and more obvious.

It really is no mystery, afterall my userID and casinoID is send among the URL i'm visiting when playing a game. So technically they could not just monitor stats but also keep me to the desired RTP overall. Is'nt it strange that even high end funded streamers that gamble up the millions still don't seem to crack the code and actually be ahead? Or are there mechanics at work that keep the player where he should be?

Afterall, the message is advertised everywhere that, gambling should be considered as entertainment, and no way a way to make money. So lets say i deposit 100 on each casino, i should get ahead at at least one right? Or are there other things again, at play?

 

[snorky510238]

It is no secret that same games do impose first deposit triggers in my experience, best example is putting a autospin for 30, 50 to 100 and get the first few spins some action and the rest pretty much zero. Or the usual "near misses" either at when your auto spin is about to end or when your balance is about to bust.

I also noticed that, my action only starts at when i nearly lost my deposit. As if it was programmed to at least wager my money before something happens. They dont want people who do a deposit, in the next spins win big and cash out (all) the remaining.

I just find it strange that out of 10 deposits, 7 are always or by default a bust, while in the middle somewhere i manage to play "even". But it's impossible to break beyond that if you know what i mean. I pretty much threw every strategy at it you can think of.

Once your in that losing downward spiral it's just going to continue untill, your next deposit. And that's even coming from a 2k balance with over 20 games played that all consistent paid bad or just did nothing. You tell me what the magic behind that is.

I mean if slots are random, you'd expect that out of 20 games with each 100 spins played out, something must come out of it right? Well... I'm not going to record my session or trying to prove a point that for me and now slowly others is becoming more and more obvious.

It really is no mystery, afterall my userID and casinoID is send among the URL i'm visiting when playing a game. So technically they could not just monitor stats but also keep me to the desired RTP overall. Is'nt it strange that even high end funded streamers that gamble up the millions still don't seem to crack the code and actually be ahead? Or are there mechanics at work that keep the player where he should be?

Afterall, the message is advertised everywhere that, gambling should be considered as entertainment, and no way a way to make money. So lets say i deposit 100 on each casino, i should get ahead at at least one right? Or are there other things again, at play?

Yes, I have been saying it for ages. It’s absolute bullshit and anyone that has an ounce of astuteness about them, can’t fail to see it.

What you say is bang on the money regarding the way games play. I have noticed exactly the same thing. The other day, I did something I have never done before. I deposited £20, got to £30 and hovered there for a while. The run of dead spins came so I withdrew the £20 back because I just knew I would have lost it.

That’s how predictable this whole farce has become. A complete waste of time and money. You’re not gambling, you’re being systematically robbed.

 

[deleted20230517]

Very true, often the "double your deposit" kind of thing (like pour in 20, win 40) and it Tumbles you down right after.

I had a 140k win some time ago; but to be honest, if i run the numbers, i think thats around what i must have deposit in some time of play spread over the course of time.

Rocknrollah had it; he had that magic hit of 100k on a certain game. But admitted later that that number was pretty much what he deposit. The Bandit Slots too with his 6 pound 100k win on Fruit party. He said something down the line that, 100k on avg was what he did deposit over time.

So lets say we're not getting beyond that 96.5% on avg then, tell me what the point is gambling is? The casino and provider just snoops off a percentage of what you overall deposit then.

Ive talked about it with someone; the only way to really get ahead seems to be live games then. Cards, roulette etc. Because if served right, there's virtually no RTP and it's just the luck of the hand, right?

But point me a casino out that on long term is constantly getting ahead and does'nt ban you.

 

[deleted20230517]

And, theory on soft & hard limit does seem to exist as well on slots.

You can soft limit your way up to a certain value, but the hard limit pretty much ensures you just don't pass that number.

I think slots 10 years ago where quite more fun before legislation came in; or before providers got greedy, or before both casino's and provider's seeked loophole's in current regulation.

It's a money business afterall. There's a big difference in my experience playing a 96.50% version vs a 97% version. And you got simular RTP's but with deducted bonus triggers, deducted volatility and what more. But they are'nt forced to present it in a help file. I can create a slot with 100% RTP and still screw you over if i count it over the zillion of spins; and magically have the RTP do it's magic for the 10 cents players.

 

[jasonuk]

Rocknrollah had it; he had that magic hit of 100k on a certain game. But admitted later that that number was pretty much what he deposit. The Bandit Slots too with his 6 pound 100k win on Fruit party. He said something down the line that, 100k on avg was what he did deposit over time.

I'm not sure these are good examples - both bandit and rolla have periods of aggressive momentum play, so they will be very much aware of what their overall break even line is while potentially thousands or tens of thousands of pounds adrift - that won't necessarily be one game, one provider or even one casino.

In the case of bandit, his play on Reel King was so aggressive that casinos started to investigate it for irregularities when he topped for £20k+ wins. At one point he was a hefty six figures ahead, but the more you play, the less you beat the curve and stories started to emerge he was sometimes losing tens of thousands in a single session chasing tops. Some may argue the game "changed" on him (although no evidence has been provided to back that allegation) but similarly the variance will catch up with him over time.

Ive talked about it with someone; the only way to really get ahead seems to be live games then. Cards, roulette etc. Because if served right, there's virtually no RTP and it's just the luck of the hand, right?

Depending on what card game you play - perfect Blackjack can be as high as 99.7%, Baccarat is 98.9%. The beauty of both games is there is full transparency - as long as the deck is fair, and as long as the dealer or shuffler isn't doing anything shady, then there's no RNG to worry about. Roulette historically was the same, but RNG wheels are becoming more of a thing now which predictably players are going to dislike when a "real wheel" can seemingly defy the laws of physics.

So lets say we're not getting beyond that 96.5% on avg then, tell me what the point is gambling is? The casino and provider just snoops off a percentage of what you overall deposit then.

RTP being return to players, not an individual - so the more people collectively play, the more they will lose... the casinos don't need to cheat (they didn't need to stoop to 88% online slots either, but alas here we are) as they let the maths model do the heavy lifting. The stories that tend to surface are either a) rogue operators running pirated or unregulated games, b) poorly tested or implemented games that can escape the maths [upwards or downwards] of the maths model, for example bogus assumptions on stored value (e.g. The Dark Knight Rises), c) people crying conspiracy based on inappropriately small sample sizes.

One thing that is important to remember, is weighted random vs true random. Players will instinctively assume the latter even though games can often use the former. A perfect example would be must-drop jackpots - the weighting is designed that the chance in the early phases is astronomical (billions or trillions to one), towards the end it will approach certainty. Doesn't feel particularly fair - and it's not in the sense early players are contributing the RTP but have no real chance to win it - but as long as it is explained accurately in the game rules, then it's up to the player to be aware of that.

 

[deleted20230517]

For a casino to "change" a game i think they have to either contact the provider or regulator, adapt changes, and launch the game back into the casino. You won't see or notice a thing, not even in the help file.

They can do it in a stealth matter. But obvious a game is not supposed to top at 20k on a daily basis either.

 

[jasonuk]

But obvious a game is not supposed to top at 20k on a daily basis either.

It wasn't the intended playstyle, but it was a valid mechanism of the slot - he gambled every single win to the top of the ladder (I believe was 500-1000x the stake) and did some kind of martingale strategy (later up to £40 and even £80 spins) so the top would put him even or ahead.

The base game is paying 96% RTP but all of that is being punted into the gamble ladder. The gamble ladder pays 100% RTP on a true 50-50 gamble.

So the end result is he hits the top and makes a profit (small or large), or he never hits the top and loses a substantial amount of money. As the gamble is part of the same transaction, the casino ledger would see a string of losing spins and then a monster hit... predictably enough for them to investigate.

 

[kura]

On slots of certain popular high volatility game provider I noticed the RTP varies between as low as 88%!!! (lol yes 88%), up to 96%, depending on which casino I check. That means this provider has different RTP versions of the same game for different casinos - all of them are Curacao licensed. I am new here and I am not sure if I can post names, so I am not going to post any

Someone above reported his calculated RTP was as low as 50% or less, my understanding of RTP is that it is calculated on a very large number of spins (I believe in millions??), so I think its perfectly normal to have a very low RTP if you are unlucky enough. At the same time from my experience I won a 1k+ from 50 EUR deposit, that makes a RTP of over 2000% right? I certainly did not complain about that

 

[bamberfishcake]

On slots of certain popular high volatility game provider I noticed the RTP varies between as low as 88%!!! (lol yes 88%), up to 96%, depending on which casino I check. That means this provider has different RTP versions of the same game for different casinos - all of them are Curacao licensed. I am new here and I am not sure if I can post names, so I am not going to post any

Someone above reported his calculated RTP was as low as 50% or less, my understanding of RTP is that it is calculated on a very large number of spins (I believe in millions??), so I think its perfectly normal to have a very low RTP if you are unlucky enough. At the same time from my experience I won a 1k+ from 50 EUR deposit, that makes a RTP of over 2000% right? I certainly did not complain about that

Post names. It's the only way we can learn to stay away from the casinos offering lower-paying games.

The industry loves to hide and avoid discussing RTP. Some sites I have noticed now mention RTP in their FAQ section or similar - a sign that people are getting wise. But, many offer misleading info in their description of it.

 

[hugobroke]

Just logged into Genting a couple of days ago which is basically a Skill-On-Net Ojo skin.

There was a popup about some "game changes" and they listed a few slots

Book of Magic was one of them - on every slot they showed the max win they have historically paid out and for this game it was some huge huge number - it was now reset to a small amount.

So suspected they changed the RTP and were obliged to treat it as a new game - checked the RTP - that game is now down to 90%.

 

[Siohmy]

Just logged into Genting a couple of days ago which is basically a Skill-On-Net Ojo skin.

There was a popup about some "game changes" and they listed a few slots

Book of Magic was one of them - on every slot they showed the max win they have historically paid out and for this game it was some huge huge number - it was now reset to a small amount.

So suspected they changed the RTP and were obliged to treat it as a new game - checked the RTP - that game is now down to 90%.

That is actually a lower %age than their bricks and mortar casinos I believe. I did set up an account with them, took one look at the RTP (for this game funnily enough) and, not surprisingly, logged out without so much as depositing a penny.

 

[jasonuk]

Looks like the latest weapon in the WH toolkit - if you won't lower them, we'll remove them...

It’s out with the old and in with the new, as we make room for some new slots at William Hill Vegas.
This means some games you played recently will no longer be available.
But don’t worry, we’re always adding new games to our collection. Some of our latest games include:

<dross>

Will you find your new favourite at William Hill Vegas?
Find out which games are leaving us below:

• Gator Gold Gigablox™ • Lucky Neko • Vikings Go Berzerk: Reloaded • Dwarf Mine • 12 Trojan Mysteries • Ticket to Fortune • Megaways Mob Megaways™ • Payday Megaways™ • Arto and the 7 Deadly Spins Megaways™ • Alchemy • Easter Island 2 • Super Cash Drop • Vault of Fortune • Hades Gigablox • Desperate Dawgs • Multifly • The Flacon Huntress • Pink Elephants 2 • Fruit Warp • Jin Ji Bao Xi Megaways • Blazin' Hot 7's: Stack 'em Up • Rainbow Riches Cluster Magic • Raging Rhino Megaways • Invaders Megaways • Cluedo: Cash Mystery • Money Train 2 • Greek Gods • John Hunter and the Mayan Gods • A Night Out • Casino Charms • Adventure Trail • Wild Lava • Kingdoms Rise Chasm of Fear • Funky Monkey • Ice Cave • Age of the Gods™: Epic Troy • Jungle Trouble • Football Rules • Absolutely Mammoth • Easter Surprise • Big Shots • Crazy 7 • Age of the Gods™ Norse: King of Asgard • Archer • Age of Gods™: Ruler of the Seas • Sacred Stones • Wild West Wilds • Blazing Bells • Nian Nian You Yu • Safari Heat • Age of the Gods™: Medusa & Monsters • Age of Gods™: Apollo Power • Age of the Gods™: Ruler of the Dead™ • Tiger Turtle Dragon Phoenix™ • Tiger Stacks • Wild Worlds™ • Dead or Alive • Deco Diamonds • Moon Spirit - Hold and Win • Book Of Halloween • Book Of Christmas • Nitropolis • Kaiju • Miss Wildfire • Ecuador Gold • Vegas Diamonds • IO • Tahiti Gold • Voodoo Gold • Lakes Five • Micro Knights • Gun Slinger: Fully Loaded • Jackpoteers • Tomb of Dead™ - Power 4 Slots • Fortunes of Ra • Kong's Temple™ • Star Spinner • Vikings Of Fortune • White Rabbit • Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Mystery Box

(List collapsed for brevity)

Plenty of 95-97% slots in there that haven't been remodelled downwards - older titles from Yggdrasil (e.g. newer: 90%), WMS/SG (newer: 88-92%), Relax (newer: 94%), Playtech (newer: 92-93%), NetEnt (newer: 92%), Blueprint (newer: 92-93%) and some Elk and Thunderkick titles too...

Also be aware some of these (like White Rabbit) have stored value, so when they're removed that value could be permanently lost.

I really hope this isn't the direction taken by others - I'm happy playing older games at 96%, I'll just about tolerate playing them at 94%... I don't want to play modern ultra-high variance crap at 90-92%.

 

[Lemon]

I love the expression 'make room', as if there's a finite amount of space available to them. Dead or Alive going as well; they must be scared of someone hitting a wild line at £0.45 stake and having the cheek to withdraw £1000. As an option for players this outfit really are a fucking stain...

 

[jasonuk]

My random memory from that list would be Ice Cave, where you could freeze wilds on reels 3, 4 and 5. Not only did I manage to lock all nine wilds, but it took a further 175 paid spins before the death wild cleared them - a cheeky £550 profit from 30p spins... still one of my biggest ever slot wins.

I love the expression 'make room', as if there's a finite amount of space available to them. Dead or Alive going as well; they must be scared of someone hitting a wild line at £0.45 stake and having the cheek to withdraw £1000. As an option for players this outfit really are a fucking stain...

I rolled my eyes at that one also. If they were pulling one provider or platform (with the associated costs of deployment) at least that would be understandable, but this is far more sinister... sure enough Money Train 1 (nerfed to 94.0%) and Money Train 3 (deployed at 94.0%) survive, but Money Train 2 (at 96.4%) does not...

They wouldn't have been the first or the last site to "hide" games - with the most recent WH website revamps you either had to explicitly name them in the search bar, or could find them with the Providers feature... but I can't think of another casino that is blanket removing higher RTP offerings like this... and it's a really dangerous precedent to set.

But at least the UKGC is looking out for players who want to play responsibly, oh wait...

 

[Bencuri]

Guys, this is disgusting. I played a lot between 2014-18. Back then at my favourite casinos, I regularly won 300-700$ with 25-50cent bets on slots. Not every day, but very often, I was even surprised how good the payout was compared to real casinos and slot halls. I skipped some years, recently I returned, and I am shocked to find how bad the payout became at the same casinos, on the same games. Only a few games remained as good as they were, but most have ridiculous payouts. Games where I could max out free spin winning limits before, hardly pay a few dollars on free spins, if you manage to hit them once in a century. If I had not played earlier, I couldn't believe how well paying these games were in the past. It is ridiculous what's going on. If I were not a master of roulette, I could not win at all nowdays and cash out anything, only a few dollars.

 

[SuperTed88]

Perhaps the long term goal is to have clients playing slots at bingo level rtp, lol.

 

[SuperTed88]

Perhaps the long term goal is to have clients playing slots at bingo level rtp, lol.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

They’ve already ducked under that level I’m afraid!!!

 

[Bencuri]

I was in Florida in 2016, and I found it annoying how bad the payout was at Gulfstream Casino compared to online gaming. Now, the situation is, the experience online became similar to Gulfstream. Still not that bad, but getting closer.

 

[Webzcas]

It is when the RTP reaches the level of the machines in those MerkurSlot "shops" that have sprouted up, up and down the country in the town's high streets, that the death-knell of online slot playing will come to pass IMO.

 

[satchnz]

It is when the RTP reaches the level of the machines in those MerkurSlot "shops" that have sprouted up, up and down the country in the town's high streets, that the death-knell of online slot playing will come to pass IMO.

I’d like to believe this but as many as there are playing at the Merkur Slots shops, there are many more like them playing online. Totally oblivious to what an RTP is, and blissfully unaware that the house edge can vary from online casino to casino for the exact same game.

 

[Guntis]

No idea what in Merkur places is going on, but somewhere last year i went to a place so-called "Amusement", and there was a machine, a roulette like slot machine where your need to place a bet and then gamble to be eligible for a spin .

That's a serious rip off, but people were still playing it.

 

[slot_zombie]

It is when the RTP reaches the level of the machines in those MerkurSlot "shops" that have sprouted up, up and down the country in the town's high streets, that the death-knell of online slot playing will come to pass IMO.

Well, since you can get up to 94% on certain (albeit only 1 or 2) games on Equinox cabinets in Merkur shops, and some online joints are happily running on 91%, I see the 4 horsemen riding over the hill.

 

[goatwack]

The video game industry is trouncing all around it, including music, movies and relatively niche activities like online slotting.

As gambling will forever be around in some form, it's far more likely that slot designers are going to integrate a video game-like experience into their slots over anything as 'inconsequential' as RTP.

Most punters won't know or care about returns, as the medium evolves and adapts, and players are prepared to forego traditional slot play in favour of being entertained, through any number of thematic preferences and recognizable brands.

I think players are being conditioned into accepting high-variance titles, with little to no regard being given to RTPs, all the while under the illusion they stand a chance of 'hitting big', Merkur or otherwise.

It's just a matter of time before 'returns to players' are completely meaningless, and slotting's six feet under, to be replaced with glorified Frankenscratchcards, and we'll all be pining for the good ol' days of Starburst. God help us all

 

[Mattue]

The more fun the game is, the less I care about RTP, but I would still never play anything under 94%

I wouldn't be surprised if one day a 100% RTP slot is created that includes a Jackpot so improbable to hit, that it will never pay out and everyone spins away for years at 20% RTP feeding it.

I remember a really old slot from 20+ years ago that loaded with a big win combination to tempt you. Someone calculated the odds of hitting that exact combination would take millions of players spinning at millions of casinos for millions of years, and still most likely not hit it. Unless you're a streamer of course

 

[Bencuri]

That's a serious rip off, but people were still playing it.

Not me. I got introduced to slots at brick and mortar, but even back then I noticed they are mostly for loosing money or just small, marginal wins. When online gambling came it was a very different story. There are still some good places, but if those disappear, I won't waste my money on slots. If someone is playing it for the fun, there is always the Demo mode. But wasting money on free games that never hit or payout only a dollar or 2... Crazy. 10-15 years ago i don't remember a Freespin session that ended with 0 income. Recently I experience it time by time.

There were casinos back then that were suspicious though: Club World - I played there for years redeeming free chips, but I never ever hit a free spin. I played Fruit Frenzy only, but while at other casinos Fruit Frenzy hit free spins often, there it never hit for me during years. Same for Microgaming Slot: Thunderstruck. When it was released there were so many free spins awarded for that game at so many casinos for years. I played a lot with those, but for years the bonus free spins never hit on that game either for me. While at the same time in Playtech Casinos where I started playing in 2007, I could win something in nearly every session I logged in. Compared to that, a brick and mortar casinos are a joke. Back then I thought it will remain like that forever.

 

[Christine28]

You did much work on this.
Did it make sense when 99% of the slots having an average RTP of 96.10% - 96.60%
to have a calculator?
I would prefer a list of slots which has lowered their RTP or a list of providers
taking advantage against players on nerfing their slots.

I have read that on line casinos could lower the RTP of their games by adjusting the algorithms and settings of their games, they could also hide the RTP by not disclosing the information to players. RTP is a crucial metric for players to assess the fairness of an online casino. Curacao licensed casinos may use a variety of different software providers each with their own set of games and associated RTP. Here the situation can be worse. Curacao is very well known for the lack of enforcement and on line casinos lower and hide RTP very easily, if you play in Curacao casinos, the RTP can be anything and a casino could program its slot machines to pay out less frequently or reduce the payout percentage of certain symbols, which translates to more profit for the casino.

 

[Christine28]

Guys, this is disgusting. I played a lot between 2014-18. Back then at my favourite casinos, I regularly won 300-700$ with 25-50cent bets on slots. Not every day, but very often, I was even surprised how good the payout was compared to real casinos and slot halls. I skipped some years, recently I returned, and I am shocked to find how bad the payout became at the same casinos, on the same games. Only a few games remained as good as they were, but most have ridiculous payouts. Games where I could max out free spin winning limits before, hardly pay a few dollars on free spins, if you manage to hit them once in a century. If I had not played earlier, I couldn't believe how well paying these games were in the past. It is ridiculous what's going on. If I were not a master of roulette, I could not win at all nowdays and cash out anything, only a few dollars.

I
On line casinos would have an incentive to adjust RTP to increase their profits even if it is licensed.
My game play rarely hits a good win, and symbols on a game are certainly reduced, casinos set the odds of winning these features so low that they do not offset the lowered RTP.

 

[snorky510238]

Just for clarity, it’s the game providers that will be setting the rtp, on the backend. Even if a game advertises a rtp of 94%, there’s no guarantee the game is actually playing at that.

If audits are being done, there are lots of ways around it. Providers are doing as they please and getting away with daylight robbery. Online gambling has become a total farce.