PurePoker did a hit-and-run?

[jetset]

My contact is apparently travelling until mid-week, but I've arranged with his assistant to have this passed to his deputy.

 

[Jay]

Well, when he decides to keep people's winnings (and says that he's doing it at a profit to himself), and has everyone's accounts locked for weeks without answering emails.. Is he expecting postive posts?

Anyway, why would anyone want to take over a casino that's only claim to fame is screwing its customers?

After talking with Pino again, I get no indication that he's making any profit off this. He hasn't taken over PurePoker; he's just trying to unwind things at FB's request and his own expense for what's not sitting in FB's escrow account for the site.

Hopefully FB will step in and make things right, and maybe increase their oversight of licensees so there aren't a few dozen more of these failures.

Plus I want the money I won

The worst thing for me is that I signed up, played, then withdrew a little of my money after clearing all the requirements, but I left a LOT in there so I could keep playing.. If I'd just cashed out everything (and redeposited later), I would've gotten all the money!

(I assume all the players are on board with the concept of getting back deposit+winnings (or -losings), without any bonus money.. I'm fine with that, and I'd even continue playing at the site if (a) it was under new management and (b) FB changed something in their program to keep a tighter control over who they sell their software to -- it sounds like they don't even have a physical address for the thieves who own PurePoker at the moment!)

 

[bb1webs]

How can anyone know? There are numerous operations that seem fancy and reliable with good bonus offers that eventually rip their players off...

its true you can't predict the future but you can learn from history to avoid repeating the same mistake.

By that I mean it's always a good idea to do a search for the name of the site in question and then add a few keywords into the search like "complaints", "ripped-off", "didn't pay", "under investigation" etc.

if they've been screwing people for any extended amount of time before you got there ... it is likely somebody has published a page to warn others but you've got to know what to look for in your search.

hope that helps somebody avoid trouble somewhere down the line.

 

[TrixSlice]

Thanks webs, that's solid advice. Wish it helped me before this, PurePoker didn't show up under any search prior to this incident, and I had no idea what Futurebet was prior to this thread. I just assumed a Poker site with thousands of players had to be funded well enough. I didn't know poker sites were networked like they are to share players.
BTW, CM I assume you are a very busy person but we havn't heard from you since Futurebet was supposed to call. You might be staying away until you know more or have found this to be a helpless matter - just curious.

 

[Casinomeister]

Thanks webs, that's solid advice. Wish it helped me before this, PurePoker didn't show up under any search prior to this incident, and I had no idea what Futurebet was prior to this thread. I just assumed a Poker site with thousands of players had to be funded well enough. I didn't know poker sites were networked like they are to share players.
BTW, CM I assume you are a very busy person but we havn't heard from you since Futurebet was supposed to call. You might be staying away until you know more or have found this to be a helpless matter - just curious.

I've been here just watching this unfold, and all it does is piss me off.

Yes, Futurebet has been in contact with me - I responded to their last email on the 17th telling them more or less that making "deals' with the players is out of the question. Pay these people and move on. That was Friday.

I expect something to be happening behind the scenes, and I expect the players to be paid - no strings attached. It's beyond me why this has been drawn out for so long.

And again, we are witnessing casino operators/software provider failing to learn from their and others' mistakes. How many times have we witnessed scenes like this? And it could have been handled way differently. The guys at Futurebet didn't just jump off some boat from China, they've been in this business for years. They know better.

And watching from the sidelines, all I can do is shake my head and wonder what the hell.

 

[jetset]

Jay says: "After talking with Pino again, I get no indication that he's making any profit off this. He hasn't taken over PurePoker; he's just trying to unwind things at FB's request and his own expense for what's not sitting in FB's escrow account for the site."


I've had some exchanges with this character Pino, too and frankly his responses and his actions in trying to bargain players down to date don't strike me as being those of a guy getting nothing out of this situation.

I'm guessing here that the quid pro quo might be access to the PurePoker player lists so that he can generate more action for his other online gambling interests. Alternatively, if he has not taken over PurePoker, perhaps the deal is a cheaper price eventually if he looks after the absconding owner's obligations.

Whatever, I don't see this guy helping players out of the goodness of his heart!

I don't have a problem with him getting a cheap poker room in return for picking up the old obligations, providing that the players are paid in full the monies that are owned to them.

If this operator was smart he would recognise the great marketing possibilities that a timely and integrity-driven resolution to this situation could bring to both him and Futurebet.

Unfortunately, and based on this saga thus far this does not yet seem to have entered the considerations of either. The operator has been trying to knock the players down in their expectations, and Futurebet seems to be sitting on it's hands hoping that Pino will pull its chestnuts out of the fire.

It's high time now for Futurebet to prove that it is capable of ethical turnkey provider conduct by standing behind its players, imo.

 

[Jay]

Yes, clearly what he gets out of it is the PurePoker accounts. A set of gamblers who can deposit four figures into a casino is probably worth something.

It sounds like the Bad Guys still own the PurePoker domain name, and they're in hiding (which is why I speculated that FB didn't even know their address.. if they owed ME $60k+, I'd invest in a plane ticket or at least a private investigator or even lawyer in their area). Without the PurePoker name (and that's a pretty good name, as such things go), the player list may not be worth as much.

 

[paul02085]

What really sux about this is that the money involved is all PLAYERS money (less rake) unlike a casino where their own money is at risk. The winnings being discussed were never the poker rooms monies but other players monies.

Its is bad enough when a casino rips off players winnings because they dont have enough of their own money to pay the players.

It is really bad when a poker room rips off players because in essence the only reason they wouldnt have the money to pay off the players is they just stole it.

Theft is theft but poker room theft is even more insidious than casino theft.

(Edit- this is assuming no casino type games were involved in the mix)

 

[jetset]

IMO the longer Futurebet leaves this, the worse it will get in terms of damage to their reputation and that of their licensees.

Remember, players have not yet even had the courtesy of a formal email from Futurebet explaining the situation, and that in itself is extremely unprofessional and lacking in integrity.

The players have a right to know what is going on, what is happening with their money and what action is being taken to secure their interests, and if this is not forthcoming I would suggest that it is grounds for a rogue listing.

The way things are going at present, I would say that Pino is not a good bet!

 

[TrixSlice]

(Edit- this is assuming no casino type games were involved in the mix)

For the record, casino games were included for me.

I think if Pino does resolve this he deserves to make some money off of it as it wasn't his problem to begin with. Futurebet should have just sucked it up. Is $60k that much when you are on the other side of this business? I would hope not. This problem definatly didn't originate with Pino but if he truly decides to resolve it I think players need to start being paid at least partially. I asked him for a portion of my money to be paid to my neteller in good faith but have seen nothing yet.

Pino, I know you read these threads. Please respond or do something in good faith. Everyone would appreciate it.

 

[jetset]

Neteller Investigations and the PR department now have this issue is my last information from that quarter. I don't know what they can or will do about it, but they have been alerted and given this thread as a reference.

I think Pino has been offered the player database as a quid pro quo for trying to do what is really Futurebet's dirty laundry, and I get the feeling from his exchanges that he has not actually taken this operation over - it's the player database that is the honey here, and in itself that raises questions about player privacy imo.

As posted earlier, I think it's high time that Futurebet accept their responsibilities to owed players of a failed licensee and get this thing resolved in a timely and fair manner.

 

[Jay]

What really sux about this is that the money involved is all PLAYERS money (less rake) unlike a casino where their own money is at risk. The winnings being discussed were never the poker rooms monies but other players monies.

Its is bad enough when a casino rips off players winnings because they dont have enough of their own money to pay the players.

It is really bad when a poker room rips off players because in essence the only reason they wouldnt have the money to pay off the players is they just stole it.

Theft is theft but poker room theft is even more insidious than casino theft.

(Edit- this is assuming no casino type games were involved in the mix)

Only casino for me. I don't really play poker much, and didn't play at all here.

 

[Jay]

... and hey, look, my account is locked again. Yay.

 

[jetset]

That raises the interesting question of who is on the controls here, bearing in mind that Pino says he hasn't taken this operation over?

It must therefore be Futurebet, but what is their criteria for switching accounts on and off like light bulbs???

 

[Jay]

Definitley Pino has control there. During my original phonecall, he said that he could reactivate my account (with less money in it), and five minutes after the call ended, I checked and it was reactivated.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just double checking this thread - it's almost a month old...and no resolution

Yet, Purepoker.com is online touting ongoing tournamets. To the casual observer, nothing is amiss.

I was in contact with Futurebet's CEO, and last Friday he stated that they had a deal that would please everyone. But so far, I haven't heard anything.

 

[B00T]

Thanks CM

I am sure many of us are just sitting tight awaiting word from you on what is going on currently. We appreciate the update (even if it is nothing).

FWIW..My account has not been locked as far as I've seen and it has the lowly $500 sitting in it.

Hopefully we will all leave happy!

 

[Reef]

yes, thanks for the updates.

I'm surprised some of your accounts are still open. Mine was closed after Pino asked me if I wanted to deposit more (?!) and play there. I said no, so he closed it. over $1200 still owed.

 

[hogua]

Ok... here's something new for me...

Now, when I try to log into my account, I get a message stating that poker has been disabled for my account. So, even if I wanted to, I can't play poker. However, I can log into the casino and the cashier page. If this site didn't owe me so much money, I might think all the activations/ deactivations/setting changes etc to my account was funny. Of course, there is nothing funny about this situation.

CM, that's for the help and for the recent update.

I do hope Futurebet and/or Pino steps up and realize that they both will gain much more from resolving this than they will "save" from not paying players.

When I was playing at Purepker, I remember thinking about how much I liked the software. If I would have beem paid (and not gone through this hassle), I'm pretty this could have become my favorite site, because I liked the software that much.

 

[pokeraddict]

This is a Poker Network/ONGAME skin right? Sub licensed just like Revolutionary?

 

[SnowMan26]

Possibly interesting iinformation on Futurebet

The following link is to an agreement found using Google.... on the sale of Futurebet Systems Inc. to CYOP Systems International Inc. on the 14th of December 2005.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

take from it what you will.... Don't know why this document is online just found it interesting when I came across it looking into futureBet. I don't even know if the link is to an agreement which actually went through....

 

[jetset]

I'm open to correction on this, but I seem to recall that this deal referred to a sale to CYOPS of the source code (rather like the deal that was done with IGS, enabling them to 'tweak' same as opposed to a licensee who doesn't have that level of *ownership*

I'm not sure that it applies to this case other than an interesting deal by Futurebet on what must be its major asset.

QUOTE: The Seller further warrants that it is not selling their business, operations, employees or any other right with regard to operating their own business.UNQUOTE

 

[SnowMan26]

Thanks Jetset,

Just don't know why they can't pay players when a deal like this has a payment schedual.... right around the time people are having problems......

Quote

"1. A deposit of $325,000.00USD on closing. (Dec 14th/05)

2. Initial deposit to be paid to FutureBet Systems Inc. on delivery of all "assets", ie., newest source code ( known as version 2.4) with translated games in the languages described in Exhibit A.

3. Installments of $30,000.00USD 30 days after the closing and $40,000.00USD 60 days after the closing.

4. The balance of $255,000.00USD to be paid upon effectiveness of the Buyers registration statement and concurrent funding with Cornell Capital due payable no later then March 31st 2006. "

 

[Jay]

Of course FB *can* pay. But the first responsibility is on the site, not the software provider. I don't think anyone here believes that FB has run out of money.

That said, my account is currently unlocked and I have a (verbal only) agreement to get my money over time, with added playthrough on my part. Since I left the money in there in order to play it anyway, that doesn't bother me. Never heard a peep from FB, and have nothing in writing (letter or email), so I'm mostly on faith here.. (but better to wait for a letter with an unlocked account and some of my money than a locked account and no money )

 

[Casinomeister]

Hang tight, a legitimate offering is in the making.