PR: NEW HOPE FOR GRAND PRIVE AFFILIATES

[jetset]

One thing that is bugging me is how some people are trying to make CAP to be some sort of website that is looking out for affiliates. It's not. It's strictly a profit driven company that is there to serve its own needs. Or have we forgotten this? Take this situation for example.

When eCOGRA announced what they were doing, all CAP could come up with is a Press Release that smacked of spitefulness. They couldn't get beyond the fact that they didn't get a piece of pie. Their words to their members? "Good luck to all Grand Priv Affiliates!"

Eh? Some help that was.

Did they announce this to their database - giving their MEMBERS the link to file a claim?? No. They sat on their hands. Sure, a thread popped up in their forum where a member posted a link, but that was it. I'm sure CAP still has their forum user's emails - and it would take no more that 10 minutes to churn out a mass email to anyone who ever had an account there. Shame on CAP for putting politics ahead of their members and ex-members for that matter.

I have around 200 registered active webmasters in this forum, and around 350 subscribed to the Meister Wire - our webmaster newsletter. I've sent PMs to all these folks and sent out a newsletter blast already because I give a flying rat's ass. It would be nice to see others take the same initiative.

And this is based on what? I feel you are mistaken when you say that "a great majority" of affiliates don't visit message boards. How do you know this? I would tend to believe this is the opposite. Especially when there are two large boards that cater to affiliates - CAP and GPWA.

If he's taking a stand for affiliates, why hasn't CAP used what they have at their disposal to notify their members. A number of people - myself included - have direct access to GP operators BTW.

Yes, I spoke with Andrew today and it looks good. They are working on contacting affiliates and we have discussed extending the deadline. We'll see what happens.

And all achieved by simply getting on with the task at hand through direct contact and spreading the word instead of trying to scupper this initiative.

Kudos, Bryan :noteworthy Not too shabby for a site that does not necessarily claim to represent affiliates!

Very good points made in your post here, too imo. I wonder how many affiliate-focused sites made sure their members knew about this initiative and where to claim.

 

[bonustreak]

I had a call today from someone at GP to express again how sorry they were for the mailings that were coming to my home and to assure me that it has been taken care of etc.. So while I had him on the line I did ask some questions for all affiliates and expressed that there is a need to get the word out to all of the affiliates and that AGD would be happy to help in anyway it can.

Just as Bryan mentioned they are reading all the post here on the forum, they have read about this deadline concern and this is being extended until after the the first of Jan, he was not aware of the exact date and assured me that an announcement will be made soon by eCogra.

That is the good thing they are hearing our pleas

I agree with Bryan why have the other large affiliate forums not sent out a mass email with the information? This is the first thing that should have been done, after all this isn't about who was able to get what accomplished it is about the affiliate community at large and if your truly wanting to help then a mass email is the right thing to do.

 

[justred]

I agree with Bryan why have the other large affiliate forums not sent out a mass email with the information? This is the first thing that should have been done, after all this isn't about who was able to get what accomplished it is about the affiliate community at large and if your truly wanting to help then a mass email is the right thing to do.

At the risk of speculating. They have ended up with a bit of egg on the face as a result of promosing to pursue the GP issue but really not achieving anything concrete (and I am not suggesting or a moment that they did not have the best intentions and tried their very best).

Suddenly now that there's action some forums may feel a little uneasy for not getting results on behalf of their members.

This intervention would have been so much more meaningful had it been a joint investigation by eCOGRA and reps from an independent affiliate community. Unfortunately it is being done by eCOGRA involving one of its stakeholders which is inherently flawed. I hope people get paid though but there's a lot more at stake here than just that...

 

[Simmo!]

Point of note: a CAP email drawing affiliates attention to the matter and a link to the claim form was received yesterday.

 

[jetset]

Better late than never, I suppose, but almost two weeks wasted in the meantime for CAP members unless they picked it up from the CAP forum where, as has already been admitted here, reach is limited.

Hopefully they received the information anyway from more committed affiliate representative organisations.

 

[dominique]

reach is limited.

7500 affiliates received the mail.

But with 10,200,000 sites listed under online casinos alone, it's a drop in the bucket and there is no telling how many of them were affected GP affiliates. GP has been around for years, used to be Referspot. They have quite a sizeable affiliate base.

Contacting the affiliates on the GP member list is lots more efficient and I am so glad it looks like that is going to happen.

Kudos to eCOGRA for taking the necessary steps, and to Bryan for contacting them.

 

[Casinomeister]

...GP has been around for years, used to be Referspot. They have quite a sizeable affiliate base...

Again I don't mean to nit-pick - but we're speculating again.

That's the problem with issues like this, too much speculation. How do you know what their affiliate numbers were - do you know how many active affiliates they had? If you know a number, please let everyone know what it is so we can at least lay that to rest.

We don't know unless GP sends a rep here and tells us what the numbers are/were - but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I'd be willing to bet that many didn't have active accounts. It would be interesting to hear from other aff programs the percentage of affiliates who signed up but never sent a player - you know, Joe Blow webmaster with a couple of banners on his lonesome blog site. It would be enlightening to hear what percent of their affiliates are able to send real returning/loyal players. I think the percentage would be surprisingly low.

Now it's my turn to speculate

I bet that when eCOGRA's audit report is published, we'll be surprised how few people this affected.

But then, within the same breath I'm willing to say the numbers don't mean diddly squat since the action that this casino group took was wrong and it eclipses the numbers issue. Grand Prive was irresponsible, shortsighted, and they stuck a dagger in the back of the affiliate community. GP began a snowball effect of mistrust that has run amok.

@CAP - good going on sending the message out. I'm sure many affs appreciated it.

 

[dominique]

Well, the "active affiliate" term is a slippery slope that keeps popping up in T&Cs and it appears there are a lot of different interpretations.

I tend to define it as any affiliate who has players playing. Some programs try to pass quotas and define it any number of ways - from sent one new player in the last three months to sending 3 a month to having 10 active players to who knows what.

IMO in this case active should mean "has players actively playing" every month.

But here - another speculation. Until we know how GP defines it...

Some programs "flush" "inactive" affiliates like you described - never sent a player, dead site.... every year or so to keep the data base smaller.

How many affiliates an older program will have depends on their policy regarding this. Yep, all speculation, hence we have an audit. I trust eCOGRA will be able to determine all that.

Yep, I agreed and thought it a good idea to send a mail out (so far only Meister and CAP community members got one?). But I still maintain that ALL GP affiliates deserve to be notified, and only eCOGRA can facilitate that now.

 

[Casinomeister]

GP mail out and deadline extension

Grand Priv has emailed their affiliate database:

INVESTIGATION INTO THE GRAND PRIV AFFILIATES PROGRAM CLOSURE

On December 4th 2009 Grand Priv issued a statement to affiliate representative bodies and webmasters asking for their cooperation in advising former affiliates of the Grand Priv Affiliates Program of the following:

1) That Grand Priv remains intent on addressing the closure of the Program and its consequences for affiliates.

2) That in pursuance of this objective, Grand Priv management has requested the independent assistance of the player protection and standards body eCOGRA, tasking the qualified audit team of that organisation with investigating and reporting on the closure, and in mediating a fair and reasonable resolution for affected affiliates not already settled by Grand Priv.

3) Inviting affiliates with a legitimate claim to complete an online claim form which will be audited against Program records by eCOGRA, with a deadline for claims of 31st December 2009.

However, eCOGRA monitors have since reported to us that there appear to be doubts as to whether said affiliate representative bodies and webmasters have sufficient reach to ensure that as many relevant affiliates as possible are informed of developments.

eCOGRA has therefore recommended that this communication exercise be expanded by emails directly to Program affiliates, and that the deadline be extended to 31st December 2009 in order to finalise the audit and mediation process as soon as practicable.

With the goal of reaching a fair and reasonable resolution front of mind, Grand Priv management has agreed to these changes, hence this email notification to you.

Please find below an amended copy of the eCOGRA audit team's invitation to affiliates dated 7th December, which provides you with all the necessary information to submit a claim if you feel you have a legitimate and verifiable case.

PRESS RELEASE

For immediate release

GRAND PRIV AFFILIATES INVESTIGATION

London, 7 December 2009 Following a number of Internet-based allegations concerning payments following the closure of the Grand Priv Affiliate Program on 1 December 2008, eCOGRA's professional services have been engaged by the management of the company.

Pursuant to an independent and fair resolution of the issues involved, eCOGRA has been tasked with:

Independently investigating the manner in which the Program was terminated and the reasons therefore; subsequently compiling a full and transparent report.

Gathering and verifying claims by any affiliate that considers an amount still to be owing by the Program as a result of player wagering activity subsequent to 1 December 2008; and

Carrying out a full and independent review by suitably qualified staff of the program software and data to confirm amounts owing to claimants at 31 December 2009.

eCOGRA is open to all submissions concerning the closure and payments owed, and urges affiliate watchdog organisations in receipt of this email to assist it in order to ensure that respective affiliate members are informed of this opportunity to submit legitimate claims.

Claims can be submitted prior to 31 December 2009 at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. Former Grand Priv affiliates who believe they have a legitimate and verifiable claim will be asked to complete the Claim Submission Form that they will find on this link.

The following information will be required on the Claim Form, and will be treated in strict confidence:

FIRST NAME
LAST NAME
BANNER TAG
EMAIL ADDRESS
WEBSITES
PHYSICAL ADDRESS
TELEPHONE NUMBER
BANKING DETAILS
AMOUNT OF LAST PAYMENT RECEIVED FROM GRAND PRIV
DATE OF LAST PAYMENT RECEIVED

Closing dates for submission of claims is 31 December 2009.


In the interests of transparency, eCOGRAs findings will be publicly released on conclusion of the investigation.

 

[peralis]

I did not receive that email...

 

[Casinomeister]

I did not receive that email...

Maybe since you've already filed a claim you didn't get it? Don't know - just passing along information.

Check your spam filters

 

[Simmo!]

I did not receive that email...

I filed a claim and I received it about an hour ago Peralis. Maybe it's just to the important affiliates

 

[Casinomeister]

eCOGRA Press Release

PROGRESS REPORT : GRAND PRIV AFFILIATES PROGRAM INVESTIGATION


17 December 2009 - The audit team continues to receive and assess claims in connection with the the above and the investigation is on track.

The eCOGRA team has noted affiliate concerns regarding the lack of communications reach of affiliate representative bodies and webmasters, and Grand Priv management has consequently decided the following:

That the communications exercise be expanded by emailing all affiliates who had active players on the Program's records during the 3 months prior to 1 December 2008 when the Program closed;

That the deadline for submission of claims be extended to 31st December 2009.

Our mandate has therefore been amended accordingly, and the expanded communications exercise has commenced. Our investigation will also include confirming the accuracy and completeness of the database list of emails used in the expanded communications exercise.

 

[peralis]

Check your spam filters

What's a spam filter?

Maybe it's just to the important affiliates

Damn - I lose out again...

 

[dominique]

I didn't get it either... and is not in spam, ecogra has clear access to my mail, I get things from them all the time.

So it must have been send through GP database - maybe to an old email address. I'll check my server.....

I should have received the eCOGRA progress report though...

 

[dominique]

PROGRESS REPORT : GRAND PRIV AFFILIATES PROGRAM INVESTIGATION


17 December 2009 That the communications exercise be expanded by emailing all affiliates who had active players on the Program's records during the 3 months prior to 1 December 2008 when the Program closed;

That sounds like a good definition!

 

[Casinomeister]

I didn't get it either... and is not in spam, ecogra has clear access to my mail, I get things from them all the time...

It wasn't sent out by eCOGRA - this was GP.

 

[dominique]

It wasn't sent out by eCOGRA - this was GP.

Probably a defunct email address then....

 

[Dave]

What's going to happen after everyone is paid up?

It's nice that they might finally settle the outstanding debts, but if you think about it, what they are doing is simply pushing the Grand Prive closing date back one year. Instead of GP closing at the end of 2008, they're essentially closing at the end of 2009. It's basically the same situation as before, only one year later.

We really need to have fair buyouts and/or continued payments into 2010 and beyond, either through a resurrected GP affiliate program or through the Villa Fortuna affiliate program.

 

[dominique]

I have no idea what the method of compensation will be.

I assume the ability to pay will be a part of the audit.

 

[Simmo!]

Roanan - Gamtrak /derail posts split out to:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/convincing-webmasters-to-advertise-responsibly.35466/


Please keep this thread on topic or I'll have to stop the earth spinning and turn out the lights

 

[dominique]

From my mailbox:

4 January 2010
RE: PROGRESS REPORT : GRAND PRIV AFFILIATES PROGRAM INVESTIGATION
Dear Annette,
Thank you once again for submitting your claim in the above connection.
The deadline for the submission of claims passed on 31 December 2009, and we will shortly begin the analysis and assessment of claims using a range of information from the Grand Priv Affiliates Program database, your personal claim and the very constructive and useful feedback that we have received from affiliates and other interested parties advocating on behalf of the affiliate community.

eCOGRA had received a total of 58 claims by the cut-off date, and I would like to assure you that these will all receive the personal attention of myself and fellow Chartered Accountant Sean Roberts, a senior and audit-experienced member of my staff.

We intend to complete the work as quickly as possible, commensurate with the professional thoroughness that this audit requires, and your patience whilst this process continues would be much appreciated.

Sean and I will be travelling to the Grand Priv operational base in order to carry out our investigations on site, with full access to all records and the cooperation of the Grand Priv management. Our mandate covers:

* Independently investigating the manner in which the Grand Priv Affiliate Program was terminated and the reasons therefore;
* Carrying out a full and independent review of the program software and data to confirm amounts owed to claimants;
* Determining a fair settlement for claimants taking into consideration the potential lifetime earnings of each affiliates respective players; and
* Compiling a full and transparent report which will be publicly released on conclusion of the investigation.
Sean and myself have both the specialised professional qualifications and wide relevant experience to bring a fair and reasonable conclusion to the project, and we will communicate again with you once we have something concrete to report and discuss.

In the meantime, if you have further information you would like us to consider, please feel free to email Sean at seanr@ecogra.org.


Yours sincerely,
Andrew Beveridge, CA(SA) MBA
Chief Executive Officer
eCOGRA Limited

 

[peralis]

And in the meantime I get a CD in the post from them to play at their casino... the only place they could have gotten my mailing address is from my affiliate account - I have never signed up to a casino of theirs...

So, first they cut out the affiliates and then use their addresses to send CD's to...

What a stand up operation

 

[vinylweatherman]

And in the meantime I get a CD in the post from them to play at their casino... the only place they could have gotten my mailing address is from my affiliate account - I have never signed up to a casino of theirs...

So, first they cut out the affiliates and then use their addresses to send CD's to...

What a stand up operation

Maybe they even SOLD your addresses from the affiliate database. These CDs are often sent out by third parties, the marketing equivalent of affiliates, but run on a different model where the casino pays a fixed amount to have CDs sent to a targetted mailing list.

I also received a CD, with the usual free 100 credits, and the lying promise of "weekly offers". Been here before, and I can pretty much guarantee I will be called by a rep nearer the closing date if I resist, who will promise me weekly offers, and then give me a special deposit bonus, and then there will be no weekly offers until the NEXT free 100 credits and cup mat comes in the post.

 

[jetset]

And in the meantime I get a CD in the post from them to play at their casino... the only place they could have gotten my mailing address is from my affiliate account - I have never signed up to a casino of theirs...

So, first they cut out the affiliates and then use their addresses to send CD's to...

What a stand up operation

That would seriously piss me off - have you thought about submitting an online complaint to eCOGRA, bearing in mind the current investigation into GP's affiliate affairs?

Present the facts and let them do something concrete about it.