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Playzee dispute over $150,000

Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Location
Newzealand
Always always read T&Cs I thought I was covered until i had $150,000 I won (fair an square) voided but still somehow was allowed to keep X amount OVER the threshold as a way for a casino to avoid paying my winnings ? they let me violate one of their own Tc & Cs and called it a day
(goodwill gesture) Still makes me sick every time I think of the situation
 
Always always read T&Cs I thought I was covered until i had $150,000 I won (fair an square) voided but still somehow was allowed to keep X amount OVER the threshold as a way for a casino to avoid paying my winnings ? they let me violate one of their own Tc & Cs and called it a day
(goodwill gesture) Still makes me sick every time I think of the situation
Out of curiosity, which casino was this? Fellow NZer here.
 
So many things come to mind as a contributing factor in my dealings I had with them besides the actual dispute I had with there rulings. Like does the fact of comming from Newzealand come into play at all seeing as is far as I know we have no one who would back us totally as offshore online casinos aren't regulated in NZ could be another valid reason they chose to pull rank but who knows at the end of the day I've lost so much sleep over it going around and around in circles then I came across this thread. If there's such as a glimpse of hope I'd be wrapped but aside from that I've had to try and distance myself and accept the fact that such a grand sum of money would be nothing short of miracle.
 
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How did you come to be permanently banned may I ask?
I'm surprised they haven't done the same with me to be honest.
Fairly Legit- they have been everything asides from that sadly.
Yes I started a PAB process but due to one of my actions my case got closed. It wasn't intentional by any means, but as a first time experience having to go down an investigation/complaints route I can say I messed up. Had I not done that I may of gotten somewhere it was very hard to not be filled with every emotion possible which got the best of me in the end. Some may say it's blatantly obvious why but I would consider the case to be a technicalities, I know exactly what they done and exactly how they went about it I know 100% that the way the casino acted was not in accordance with how things should be done. I'd say the situation is somewhat complex but in no way should it of resulted in the confiscation of My winnings. I'm prepared to fight if I can even if it's for the sake of the Tcs & Cs to get a revamp, to be transparent and straight forward, something, anything just so no one else falls victim to a predatory online casino such as them.
 
How did you come to be permanently banned may I ask?
I'm surprised they haven't done the same with me to be honest.
Fairly Legit- they have been everything asides from that sadly.
Yes I started a PAB process but due to one of my actions my case got closed. It wasn't intentional by any means, but as a first time experience having to go down an investigation/complaints route I can say I messed up. Had I not done that I may of gotten somewhere it was very hard to not be filled with every emotion possible which got the best of me in the end. Some may say it's blatantly obvious why but I would consider the case to be a technicalities, I know exactly what they done and exactly how they went about it I know 100% that the way the casino acted was not in accordance with how things should be done. I'd say the situation is somewhat complex but in no way should it of resulted in the confiscation of My winnings. I'm prepared to fight if I can even if it's for the sake of the Tcs & Cs to get a revamp, to be transparent and straight forward, something, anything just so no one else falls victim to a predatory online casino such as them.
After I set a 5 year exclusion they applied the permanent ban citing bonus abuse, which is weird because I made plenty of non bonus deposits. Tried recently to reopen the account (over 5 years on) but to no avail.

Pity to hear about your PAB. Maybe ask if you can reopen it and just stay silent on the matter until it's resolved? If not, my sympathies.
 
Aw thank you ? I've been told sternly my case is and remains closed I'm not sure if my case would be an acception to the rules by any chance but at this stage I've got nothing to lose and would give anything to be able to start the process again $150,000 is a very valued lesson learnt at the least. If it was $1500 I probly wouldn't be so persistent. But cheers for reaching out :)
After I set a 5 year exclusion they applied the permanent ban citing bonus abuse, which is weird because I made plenty of non bonus deposits. Tried recently to reopen the account (over 5 years on) but to no avail.

Pity to hear about your PAB. Maybe ask if you can reopen it and just stay silent on the matter until it's resolved? If not, my sympathies.
 
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... I've been told sternly my case is and remains closed ...
Just to be clear, both the casino's designated ADRs have had their go with your case and both have (effectively) ruled against you. As I believe I said to you in the PAB Ticket that puts your case beyond our reach because the casino has no reason to even respond to us, which I don't think they did.

As far as the casino is concerned they've followed the procedures required by their Malta license and you've exhausted the official channels, they're perfectly fine to leave it at that. We could only be of use to you here _if_ the casino was willing to re-open the case and discuss it further with us. As I've said that appears to not be the case.

- Max
 
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Just to be clear, both the casino's designated ADRs have had their go with your case and both have (effectively) ruled against you. As I believe I said to you in the PAB Ticket that puts your case beyond our reach because the casino has no reason to even respond to us, which I don't think they did.

As far as the casino is concerned they've followed the procedures required by their Malta license and you've exhausted the official channels, they're perfectly fine to leave it at that. We could only be of use to you here _if_ the casino was willing to re-open the case and discuss it further with us. As I've said that appears to not be the case.

- Max
Who were both the ADRs you are referring too ? I understand eCOGRA was one. Was the POGG the other?

New information has now come to light there's a strong chance I obtained all my winnings with my own cash deposit however the complaint I've raised have said other wise..
it wasn't until I looked into this further I found the casino has actually deleted a section or my game play the part where I was playing and won the amount I did

Even though I've exhausted all the channels do i have any ground to stand on with submitting the complaint to be reinvestigated due to new evidence.

When I first pitched My complaint with the POGG I had no idea that I could of actually won off my own cash deposit they deemed I had no case off the info I gave them..
eCogra didn't even look into my complaint because the POGGs ruling was obviously good enough.. Am i allowed to do anything with this new information at all or will this all be irrelevant now that the official channels have been exhausted?
 
Who were both the ADRs you are referring too ? I understand eCOGRA was one. Was the POGG the other?
Yes, IIRC. As specified in the Terms:
Should you remain dissatisfied in relation to a dispute, you have the option to escalate the matter externally via one of our ADR providers, eCOGRA or The Pogg (each a “ADR Provider”).

You should recall that I told you all this while we were working on your PAB almost three weeks ago:
The bottom line as I see it is that at this point you've exhausted your options through the casino's official channels. eCOGRA and ThePogg are the two named ADR's in the casino Terms -- section "21.3 Complaints closure and referral" -- and they've both had your case and done whatever it is they're going to do. Normally your next and only remaining option would be to take it to court.

Not sure why any of this would be news to you now.

- Max
 
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What Is the IIRC ?
Google is your friend (well, actually it's not but it does make short work of things like this):
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


People use “IIRC” online, and it stands for “if I recall correctly” or “if I remember correctly.” Just as you would in person, you can use it to be polite, if you’re unsure about something, or sarcastically when you answer a question or correct others.
The former usage was intended, obv.
 
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... Am i allowed to do anything with this new information at all or will this all be irrelevant now that the official channels have been exhausted?
Ah, missed this on the first pass.

I can only offer advice based on what I would hope a player would do if I had previously made a decision on your case: take your new info back to ThePogg, present it to them and explain the significance, and ask them to kindly re-open your case. What they choose to do at that point will largely determine what you can and/or should do afterwards.

I should add this though as it seems directly applicable to your case: I get that you are determined to explore every avenue available to get that money from the casino. The problem is that you have already botched your chances by ignoring the casino's Terms -- or so the evidence would indicate -- and "every available avenue" is rapidly turning into you clutching at whatever straw you can find, applicable or not, in order to press your forward with your wish to get that money. In doing so you are wasting a lot of people's time and are very much at risk of making a PITA of yourself simply because they have the cash and you want it.

My advice on this is be ABSOLUTELY certain that whatever new evidence you present is real and actionable because if you keep pulling out any old argument simply to keep the conversation going you'll soon find yourself facing a lot of closed doors that may not be openable again should you need them some time in the future. I get that you may not be totally up to speed on how these things work but from my point of view I've seen a lot of "convenient" mistakes being made and that can only go on for so long before you come to a short, sharp end to people's patience.

- Max
 
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I
Ah, missed this on the first pass.

I can only offer advice based on what I would hope a player would do if I had previously made a decision on your case: take your new info back to ThePogg, present it to them and explain the significance, and ask them to kindly re-open your case. What they choose to do at that point will largely determine what you can and/or should do afterwards.

I should add this though as it seems directly applicable to your case: I get that you are determined to explore every avenue available to get that money from the casino. The problem is that you have already botched your chances by ignoring the casino's Terms -- or so the evidence would indicate -- and "every available avenue" is rapidly turning into you clutching at whatever straw you can find, applicable or not, in order to press your forward with your wish to get that money. In doing so you are wasting a lot of people's time and are very much at risk of making a PITA of yourself simply because they have the cash and you want it.

My advice on this is be ABSOLUTELY certain that whatever new evidence you present is real and actionable because if you keep pulling out any old argument simply to keep the conversation going you'll soon find yourself facing a lot of closed doors that may not be openable again should you need them some time in the future. I get that you may not be totally up to speed on how these things work but from my point of view I've seen a lot of "convenient" mistakes being made and that can only go on for so long before you come to a short, sharp end to people's patience.

- Max
I have commented back to the pogg and asked If this is able to. Be re investigated due to the fact that new compelling evidence has come to light about the casinos actions deleting my game play and the strong likelihood of me winning those funds on my own merit. I'm not sure if I done it the correct way or not by commenting on the original complaint page or if I am supposed to submit a new complaint to the pOGG, so far I'm still waiting for a reply from about 3 days ago
 
I have screenshots from inside the pragmatic play game that I won on indicating The time and date I played and won and a screenshot of the game play history available to me from the exact same date with the message saying that "the game play history for that day is not available" furthermore I've requested a full break down of my history from playzee casino who are telling me it can take upto a month for me to be In receipt of this information I'm needing. Unsure if what I've got now is suffient enough.
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20230619_154509.webp

Ah, missed this on the first pass.

I can only offer advice based on what I would hope a player would do if I had previously made a decision on your case: take your new info back to ThePogg, present it to them and explain the significance, and ask them to kindly re-open your case. What they choose to do at that point will largely determine what you can and/or should do afterwards.

I should add this though as it seems directly applicable to your case: I get that you are determined to explore every avenue available to get that money from the casino. The problem is that you have already botched your chances by ignoring the casino's Terms -- or so the evidence would indicate -- and "every available avenue" is rapidly turning into you clutching at whatever straw you can find, applicable or not, in order to press your forward with your wish to get that money. In doing so you are wasting a lot of people's time and are very much at risk of making a PITA of yourself simply because they have the cash and you want it.

My advice on this is be ABSOLUTELY certain that whatever new evidence you present is real and actionable because if you keep pulling out any old argument simply to keep the conversation going you'll soon find yourself facing a lot of closed doors that may not be openable again should you need them some time in the future. I get that you may not be totally up to speed on how these things work but from my point of view I've seen a lot of "convenient" mistakes being made and that can only go on for so long before you come to a short, sharp end to people's patience.

- Max
ha
 
I have screenshots from inside the pragmatic play game that I won on indicating The time and date I played and won and a screenshot of the game play history available to me from the exact same date with the message saying that "the game play history for that day is not available" furthermore I've requested a full break down of my history from playzee casino who are telling me it can take upto a month for me to be In receipt of this information I'm needing. Unsure if what I've got now is suffient enough.View attachment 183957View attachment 183958

ha
I have screenshots from inside the pragmatic play game that I won on indicating The time and date I played and won and a screenshot of the game play history available to me from the exact same date with the message saying that "the game play history for that day is not available" furthermore I've requested a full break down of my history from playzee casino who are telling me it can take upto a month for me to be In receipt of this information I'm needing. Unsure if what I've got now is suffient enough.View attachment 183957View attachment 183958

Would it be best to just file a new complaint with the new evidence...for now the screenshots are all I have made contact with the casino for my full gaming history which they said could take upto a month to get to me ?
 
I have screenshots from inside the pragmatic play game that I won on indicating The time and date I played and won and a screenshot of the game play history available to me from the exact same date with the message saying that "the game play history for that day is not available" furthermore I've requested a full break down of my history from playzee casino who are telling me it can take upto a month for me to be In receipt of this information I'm needing. Unsure if what I've got now is suffient enough.View attachment 183957View attachment 183958

ha
I now have my full gameplay history from playzee casino but I have no idea how to interpret it all as it's in Excell and I'm limited to how much I can see at once from my mobile
. Am I potentially allowed to open another PAB for this.
 
... Am I potentially allowed to open another PAB for this.
What result do you have from ThePogg regarding re-opening your case? As I've said before, anything that happens now will depend on that.

And, also as I've said before, ignoring today the advice I've given you yesterday (or sometime recently) is absolutely not the way to proceed with a respectful and considerate relationship. Sooner or later that is going to result in doors being shut with slim chance of them being re-opened. This is the last time I will warn you about this.

- Max
 
I can copy and paste the response or you maybe able to view it from the site it wasn't really much of a reply to my initial request of asking if the case could be re opened on the basis of having new evidence.

I definitely need to have it gone over however as I can't see a great deal in the microsoft Excel format it's been sent to me in since I'm on my phone
 
Bonus terms and conditions apply to all wagers from the point that the bonus is added to your account until the point that you have completed the wagering requirement. Whether the wagers in question were placed with deposited funds or bonus funds is non-relevant.

Sorry we cannot be of further help.

ThePOGG.

Is the reply I got but I was trying to explain it might not be won from any bonus being added given the deposits I had made through out the gaming session.
So I'm not sure what I can do now.
 
So, the casino's designated ADR has confirmed that whatever argument you have recently presented their decision on your case in unchanged: the ruling against you stands as is. Per the Terms of the Maltese license the casino can, and almost certainly will, consider that as "case closed", again.

Insofar as Casinomeister is concerned we can have no meaningful role in this on your behalf unless the casino agrees to discuss your case with us. Do you understand and accept that? Yes or no?

- Max
 
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Very well. The next -- and possibly only -- step if we are to be of any help to you is for me to ask the casino if they will re-open your case and discuss it with us in sufficient detail for us to reach an independent conclusion.

If the casino says "yes" then we will re-open your PAB and proceed.
If they say "no", or give no reply at all, then that's "game over" in terms of us being able to help you. This would be the end of the road for us and our involvement with this particular complaint. This means "case closed": no re-do's, no "but I found this", no nothing. Fini.

Do you understand and accept all that?

- Max
 
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"Yes" or "no" please, I don't want there to be any misunderstandings down the road.

- Max
 
I have recieved this response back from the pOgg:

Hi kitty69,

If you believe that the operator in question has not appropriately complied with a Subject Access Request (a request for information about your account), then we would direct you to the appropriate data control governmental agency in your country of residence. They would be the party responsible for managing an issue of this nature.

Supposition that the operator in question may not have fully complied with a SAR request and that this potentially missing information may have bearing on your claim is not sound grounds for us to reopen this matter.

We've reviewed your claim and we are satisfied that the operator was within their rights to enforce the win limit as defined in their terms and conditions. If you obtain evidence to the contrary, please feel free to let us know, but for the present time we do not see sufficient grounds to pursue this matter further.

ThePOGG.

I thought I would report back before doing anything else rather than potentially jeporadise any further help from you guys like what I had done previously.
 
Sorry, missed this. If you want someone to know you've posted you need to @___ them. For instance by adding @maxd to your message I would get notification and would then be able to respond in a more timely manner. I'll @Minxxx you now and you'll see how that works.

To answer your question, no the casino has not responded. I remind you of our previous agreement:
If they say "no", or give no reply at all, then that's "game over" in terms of us being able to help you. This would be the end of the road for us and our involvement with this particular complaint. This means "case closed": no re-do's, no "but I found this", no nothing. Fini.

Do you understand and accept all that?

To which you said "yes". And that, as agreed, is "case closed".

- Max
 
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Pretty much. Especially when it has a 6figure win involved I misrepresented my case mistake 101 mind you I was gobsmacked I didn't play expecting to win $150k that's for sure. The only thing I've got left on my side now is my game play log which looks questionable on the casinos part so if it's ment to be I guess It will happen.
 
"my game play log which looks questionable on the casinos part"
Says who? I thought you said you couldn't make head nor tails of the play log data.

And AFAIK it's not a question of what's in the logs, it's a question of whether you fully completed the bonus requirements per the Terms.
Depositing while bonus Terms are still in effect -- which you did -- does not terminate, erase or nulify the bonus requirements and/or restrictions. It is because of this that your winnings were cut back per the Max Withdrawal rules in effect at the time.
It's my understanding that that is the crux of your case.

Just to be clear, the casino's designated ADR (ThePogg) has ruled on your case -- not once, but twice -- and they decided in the casino's favour both times. Having reviewed their ruling statement and the correspondence between you I see no reason to question their decision. You've also gone to the other designated ADR, eCOGRA, and they've said "pass" because ThePogg has already ruled on it.

I've told you, more than once now, that if you want to question the ADR's ruling you have to make your case to them. They've already said they'll look at any new and pertinent evidence you may have but you haven't any and that's why your case is dead in the water.

I've also explained to you that if you keep banging on about this here with no justification then doors will close that you won't be able to open again. We have Forum Rules and you are in violation of item 1.11, repeatedly. So now it comes: effective immediately you are in the Moderated group, meaning any future posts you may make will have to be approved _before_ they appear on the forums. Any future posts on this Playzee subject will almost certainly be deleted without further comment. If you truly have something relevant and significant related to your Playzee case I've already described to you what you need to prepare and how you may approach us with that. Otherwise, enough is enough and the "personal agenda" stuff stops here.

- Max
 
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I could interpret parts of the data not ALL of it and I had someone who's a bit more clued up then myself look over it for me The casino confiscated my balance....not my loyalty points so it looks as though they have put all my game play down as "LOYALTY" which Is a crock of ?

I did offer to send the log through but you implied there was no need so left it at that

Of course with a 6 figure win I well and truly wagered the silly bonus it was long gone behind me when I won that money fair and square. As I said I misrepresented my case in the first place my mistake. I'm only wanting what I rightfully won. Nothing more nothing less.
 
I see you've posted yet again on this subject. We'll take that as your closing remarks. Allow me to make a few closing remarks as well.

The unfortunate truth of your case is that you never "won that money fair and square" because you were still playing within the restrictions of a bonus that capped your winnings. The designated ADR -- ThePogg -- told you this, I read their work on the case and supported that conclusion. I see CasinoGuru has also done the same. The conclusion is clear: you were never entitled to that 150 grand because of the bonus restrictions -- specifically Max WD -- that were still in effect at the time.

The problem here is that none of that matters to you. Early on in this process you set yourself the goal of getting that money, full stop. Reason, rules, truthfullness and anything else that got in your way has been nothing more than an irritation to you. You had set your goal and that was that, anything that wasn't helpful to you was white noise and simply ignored. Anything that might help you, or at least keep the conversation going, was fair game regardless of truth, reality or facts to the contrary.

This is what's known as the Marcia Gay Harden Effect after her role as Mrs Carmody in The Mist: set your goal, grasp onto anything that might help, disregard anything that doesn't help, and never quit.

The problem with this is that it is fundamentally disrespectful to anyone who crosses your path. If they help you that's great and they're useful, for the moment. If they disagree and/or don't help you then they are dead to you, ignore what they say and forget them.

As evidence of this I point to the fact that you've ignored both ThePogg and CasinoGuru in their decisions on your case. At one point you came to us but repeatedly ignored and violated the PAB rules: you never told us that you'd gone to ThePogg, or eCOGRA after that. You claimed to be a rookie and not know how things worked but when it was explained to you you couldn't be bothered to listen. Through all of this you've failed to mention having gone to CasinoGuru and failing there too. When given advice or guidance on your case you just ignore it, or twist it into something you think you can use.

Those play records for example, what evidence do they have that supports your case? None, which is exactly what ThePogg told you. But that hasn't stopped you throwing them into the conversation for random reasons. First it was "the casino is hiding something!" because supposedly they wouldn't give you the records. And then they did, in pretty much exactly the time frame they said they would.

The bottom line is do those records show that you had fully completed the bonus requirements in their entirety? No, they do not. All this bumff about playing on "my money" or Loyalty Points or whatever is just rubbish. You're only saying that to keep the conversation going. Might as well say "records show I played on a Wednesday!" or "my birthday is in June!" So what? What relevance does that have? None, but that's not the point is it? It's something to say to keep people talking -- or so you imagine -- and that makes it fair game as far as you are concerned.

I've warned you that the end result of all this will be that doors will close on you: people eventually just stop listening, largely out of self-defence. I've taken the time -- one last time -- to explain why we're now doing the same.
 
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I see you've posted yet again on this subject. We'll take that as your closing remarks. Allow me to make a few closing remarks as well.

The unfortunate truth of your case is that you never "won that money fair and square" because you were still playing within the restrictions of a bonus that capped your winnings. The designated ADR -- ThePogg -- told you this, I read their work on the case and supported that conclusion. I see CasinoGuru has also done the same. The conclusion is clear: you were never entitled to that 150 grand because of the bonus restrictions -- specifically Max WD -- that were still in effect at the time.

The problem here is that none of that matters to you. Early on in this process you set yourself the goal of getting that money, full stop. Reason, rules, truthfullness and anything else that got in your way has been nothing more than an irritation to you. You had set your goal and that was that, anything that wasn't helpful to you was white noise and simply ignored. Anything that might help you, or at least keep the conversation going, was fair game regardless of truth, reality or facts to the contrary.

This is what's known as the Marcia Gay Harden Effect after her role as Mrs Carmody in The Mist: set your goal, grasp onto anything that might help, disregard anything that doesn't help, and never quit.

The problem with this is that it is fundamentally disrespectful to anyone who crosses your path. If they help you that's great and they're useful, for the moment. If they disagree and/or don't help you then they are dead to you, ignore what they say and forget them.

As evidence of this I point to the fact that you've ignored both ThePogg and CasinoGuru in their decisions on your case. At one point you came to us but repeatedly ignored and violated the PAB rules: you never told us that you'd gone to ThePogg, or eCOGRA after that. You claimed to be a rookie and not know how things worked but when it was explained to you you couldn't be bothered to listen. Through all of this you've failed to mention having gone to CasinoGuru and failing there too. When given advice or guidance on your case you just ignore it, or twist it into something you think you can use.

Those play records for example, what evidence do they have that supports your case? None, which is exactly what ThePogg told you. But that hasn't stopped you throwing them into the conversation for random reasons. First it was "the casino is hiding something!" because supposedly they wouldn't give you the records. And then they did, in pretty much exactly the time frame they said they would.

The bottom line is do those records show that you had fully completed the bonus requirements in their entirety? No, they do not. All this bumff about playing on "my money" or Loyalty Points or whatever is just rubbish. You're only saying that to keep the conversation going. Might as well say "records show I played on a Wednesday!" or "my birthday is in June!" So what? What relevance does that have? None, but that's not the point is it? It's something to say to keep people talking -- or so you imagine -- and that makes it fair game as far as you are concerned.

I've warned you that the end result of all this will be that doors will close on you: people eventually just stop listening, largely out of self-defence. I've taken the time -- one last time -- to explain why we're now doing the same.
Don’t mean to chime in here - but I remember being Given $50 bonus cash from Cashino ? I think - decided to play Razor shark $5 spins (was $5 max on bonus)

Of course 2nd spin hit 2500 coin and Boom $12,500 ran that up to $25,000 - it was three weeks before Xmas - I was set

FUCK YEAH , Then i was reminded max cash out for that type of bonus was $200 - … (bottom lip started to quiver) it’s like the games KNOW when you are on bonus cash

I didn’t bother with the $200 i just went balls deep buying the most insane real cash bonuses , went out with a bang !
 
Yeah, bonus Terms can be a real PITA. MANY of the cases I've dealt with over the years have been exactly because of that, bonus Terms that bite.

FWIW, most experienced players I know don't bother with bonuses anymore, too much hassle. But I do understand the lure of "free money" to play with. Problem is (of course) that it's never really "free" and players often end up paying for it dearly.
 
Yeah, bonus Terms can be a real PITA. MANY of the cases I've dealt with over the years have been exactly because of that, bonus Terms that bite.

FWIW, most experienced players I know don't bother with bonuses anymore, too much hassle. But I do understand the lure of "free money" to play with. Problem is (of course) that it's never really "free" and players often end up paying for it dearly.
I never take a bonus unless my account at zero and it’s free $$, with no depositing required - as you get stiffed somewhere if you ever win
 
I never take a bonus unless my account at zero and it’s free $$, with no depositing required - as you get stiffed somewhere if you ever win
I'm very careful with the bonuses I accept. I don't mind max bet as I'm a low roller for the most part, but will never take one with max cashout or a big list of restricted games. Easier to play raw at that point.
 
Gave up UK bonuses years ago, impossible to benifit from them and more likely than not used as an excuse not to pay out
decent wins ,play at BC Game quite a lot now, the bonuses are small, mostly based on wagering turnover but quite a few different
ones that all add up.They are paid as real money with no restrictions and can be cashed out any time,
Managed to turn $17 into over 1000 recently ,cashed out and in the bank in minutes
 
I actually used welcome bonuses only around 3-5 times in my entire life. Once i deposited in William Hill £200 (half of my wages then) and on the live chat they told me that the welcome bonus 'will help me to win'... So, i accepted it and managed to get up to £400 and then i wanted to cash the money out, but i was not allowed to, which i then did not know about, and while being pissed off lost all £400 ... lol. That was a lesson after which i stopped accepting any bonuses except for wager-free cashback. Now i know very well everything about how it all works, but things like 'bonuses' or anything to the word 'free' related are not my thing ...
 

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