Playtech VP

[Bruno712]

After reading some positive comments from Freebie and JPM, I decided to try my luck at a couple of Playtech casinos. I played VP, JoB single and 4 hand mode. While sitting in my motel room waiting for the wife to come back from her shopping spree, I plunked down a few bucks at City Club and Brandy casinos. I started with a $100 deposit (+the $100 bonus) at City and in about 45 minutes turned it into $2200! I hit 3, count em 3 4 of a kind in that short time. And if I wasn't so greedy (and bored) I would have walked away with a couple of grand. But.....

Brandy was a different story. First, I had to call on my law degree and engaged in an hours consult with an expert witness to decipher (no offence Bruce) the first time bonus policy. One page said 4 x, another said 20 x and yet another said 5 x. As it turned out the amount i wagered didn't matter much because my deposit was gone in record time. However, this morning, to my delight and glee, I received and email from the casino manager telling me that I had a $500 bonus deposit in my account. The email said I had to wager it 4 times in order to cash-in my winnings only, never the bonus. But the web page said 20? Never mind. Well, when I got home tonight, I decided to try my best to give Brandy back their $500 bonus, but they would not cooperate and I ended up making a cool $1500. All in all a very pleasant experience.

I have a question about the doubling feature though. Someone, I think it was you Freebie, said that there is no house edge in the doubling. I know math isn't my best suit, but if you have 4 cards to choose from and they may or may not contain a card higher than the houses, how is there no edge to the houses chances? Just curious. I restricted my doubling to hands where I caught push hands only (pairs of J, Q, K, A only) and won 66% of the time. I only doubled one hand twice and won that.

 

[jpm]

WTG Bruno! Gotta love those 4oks. I didn't win at Brandy either, but did very well at the City Club.

So what the heck was that $500 bonus for anyway?

I wish they would make a few of their other vp games into the 4 line version already. Its been quite a while now.

I think the reason there is no house edge on the doubling, is because its a totally random thing with the only rule being the higher card wins and a tie is a push. If the tie went to the house, then there'd be an advantage. At least that's my theory.

I usually double 2 (10 max)coin and 3 (15 max)coin payouts and almost always just accept 1 (5 max)coin payouts as another chance to get something better. Rarely will I try doubling something like a str8 or flush unless I'm feeling adventurous.

 

[hhcfreebie]

I have a question about the doubling feature though. Someone, I think it was you Freebie, said that there is no house edge in the doubling. I know math isn't my best suit, but if you have 4 cards to choose from and they may or may not contain a card higher than the houses, how is there no edge to the houses chances? Just curious. I restricted my doubling to hands where I caught push hands only (pairs of J, Q, K, A only) and won 66% of the time. I only doubled one hand twice and won that.

I mention it many times, but I am not the first one to say that. Almost everyone agrees that the doubling feature is a game of zero house edge.
The game is this: Dealer draws a card and I draw another. Whoever draws a higher card win, or tie when we draw the same value.
Forget about the 4 cards you choose, that's just for a show. They can let you select 51 unseen cards and the odds will still be the same.
I am glad you won big but I also have to warn you there is still a house edge. The doubling feature increase your odds of winning, much like "taking the odds" in crap. The more you double, the less the house edge. If you double enough, eventually the 0.1% cashback will overcome the tiny house edge!
This weekend along I played 20k on one playtech casino and my payout is 99.93%. After I redeemed the comp points, I am ahead 0.07%. Not to mention all the bonus are mine to keep.
The way to play more of the doubling game without risking too much on your bankroll is simple. Just set a limit of your doubling. Let's say you don't want to double more than $10, you should only double half when your winning is more than $20. That way even when you eventually loose, you have already got half of the money on your pocket.
My record win is 11 wons on doubling, and some 9-10 wins in between. With odds like that, who needs royal?

 

[bewitch]

Okay, Black jack is kind of boring now. Slot pay back is

Maybe I should try more on VP. However, I am terrible on VP. It's time to visit The Wizards of odds and practice... Any book?

 

[jpm]

Bewitch,

A book isn't the best way to learn VP strategies. I highly recommend you buy a copy of Bob Dancer's Winpoker. Its got practice modes and almost every VP game you can imagine, and some you probably have never seen. It also lets you customize the paytables to match the game you want to play and analyze the payout as well.

In practice mode, it will tell you when you've made a mistake and how much it will cost you. Its a great program and I still refer to it every so often when I question whether I'm making the right play on a complex hand (usually one involving wildcards).

Of course you could also play at a viper casino and use their hint mode to help, but then you're risking real money to learn to play. And I've still not checked viper's strategy against Winpoker to see if its got some of the more esoteric hands right.

 

[HateMG]

$500 bonus

So what the heck was that $500 bonus for anyway?

And the answer is:

$500 Welcome Bonus!!!
Any sum of money* you lose from your first deposit after 3 hours from the moment you begin to play at Brandy Casino will be returned to your account within 24 hours as the Single-Welcome bonus.

 

[jpm]

Thanks! I thought he'd only deposited $100 there for some reason.

 

[GrandMaster]

Of course you could also play at a viper casino and use their hint mode to help, but then you're risking real money to learn to play. And I've still not checked viper's strategy against Winpoker to see if its got some of the more esoteric hands right.

You can also open a guest account to practice. Viper can calculate the expected value of all the possible choices you can make, and in the few cases I checked the numbers agree with Winpoker. The strategy must be based on the expected values, not on recognising patterns, so I believe it is correct, unlike the BJ strategy. www.gamblingtools.net is also a useful resource, but it seems to be down at the moment.

 

[jpm]

The thing that bugs me about viper is sometimes I think its not holding a card that I think it should. Its usually when playing a non-wild game and A-10 suited or K-10 suited come up on the deal and it tosses the 10. It may have even done it in joker poker, but I'm not certain of that. I gotta check winpoker to see if that's the right play.

I think winpoker is better because it can analyze your play, or the entire game (to tell you the expected return), and lets you setup custom games for things that aren't in viper, etc. I think it just gives you more detailed information and is a pretty good bargain for the price.

 

[hhcfreebie]

The thing that bugs me about viper is sometimes I think its not holding a card that I think it should. Its usually when playing a non-wild game and A-10 suited or K-10 suited come up on the deal and it tosses the 10. It may have even done it in joker poker, but I'm not certain of that. I gotta check winpoker to see if that's the right play.

As far as I know, for most no-wild pokers we should not hold a suited A-10. Suited K-10 with penalty cards might worth less than a single K.
So far, I havn't found a single mistake on MG's Viper software yet.
Playtech will hold cards for you when the hand pays (such as 2 pairs). More often than not, the cards they hold is the correct strategy. Unfortunately, I still have to hold 4 to flush or one pair etc myself.

 

[jpm]

Yeah, playtech is definately not playing strategy. It is purely holding winners, and may even hold a winner it shouldn't (like a flush with K Q J 10 7). You have to know strategy to play there properly.

 

[Clayman]

However, I am terrible on VP. It's time to visit The Wizards of odds and practice... Any book?

In addition to Bob Dancer's Winpoker that jpm recommended, I'd also recommend VP Strategy Master by TomSki. It prints out both a basic and advanced strategy by ranking the value of various hands against any paytable. I found it easier to learn how to play using it rather than learning from my random mistakes using Winpoker. Also, it's handy to take to a casino as a cheat sheet.

Like BJ, VP is a game of skill but it's worth the time to learn it. Even the worst VP games are 97+% which is probably alot better then almost all slots.

 

[GrandMaster]

Yeah, playtech is definately not playing strategy. It is purely holding winners, and may even hold a winner it shouldn't (like a flush with K Q J 10 7). You have to know strategy to play there properly.

I think it is the same with all software other than viper, some won't even hold winning hands, which may lead to unpleasant surprises. There is worse in land-based casinos, I played a video poker machine which would give misleading tips like holding an inside straight consisting of all low cards.

 

[jpm]

Oh yeah, I've seen that type of 'advice' before. Just plain evil that is.