Rogued Playtech Casinos with predatory progessive terms

[Blathaon]

Just out of curiosity i went and looked at primecasino in the wayback machine. The progressive term has been there since December 2007

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[vinylweatherman]

Just out of curiosity i went and looked at primecasino in the wayback machine. The progressive term has been there since December 2007

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Microgaming asleep at the wheel again, or the idea that MGS don't allow drip feed payments of progressives is just another myth like the one where MGS would underwrite players' balances should a licensee go bust.

 

[Blathaon]

Microgaming asleep at the wheel again, or the idea that MGS don't allow drip feed payments of progressives is just another myth like the one where MGS would underwrite players' balances should a licensee go bust.

Well to be fair to MG , this is the only MG casino with this term that i could find out of 200+. But still it is bad, Someone should notify MGS.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well to be fair to MG , this is the only MG casino with this term that i could find out of 200+. But still it is bad, Someone should notify MGS.

The problem is that MGS do not accept communications from players.

It's also evident that there isn't much policing of licensees either, which seems to be left for the licensing jurisdiction, and as far as they are concerned, this would be acceptable as it is stated in the term.

I expect the chances of a progressive being hit at a particular casino are small, so maybe Prime have yet to be in a position to apply this term on a large progressive like Mega Moolah, which is where it could become a PR problem for Microgaming.

 

[Blathaon]

The problem is that MGS do not accept communications from players.

It's also evident that there isn't much policing of licensees either, which seems to be left for the licensing jurisdiction, and as far as they are concerned, this would be acceptable as it is stated in the term.

I expect the chances of a progressive being hit at a particular casino are small, so maybe Prime have yet to be in a position to apply this term on a large progressive like Mega Moolah, which is where it could become a PR problem for Microgaming.

I was thinking that maybe Bryan or someone else that has the ability to contact MGS should inform them of this.

I would think that MG would want to know about this, although i cannot understand how this has slipped by them for six years.
I would much prefer to see software providers take action rather than some licensing jurisdiction.

I agree that the chances of a progressive being hit at a particular casino is small.
Nevertheless the casinos running the software is a direct reflection of the software provider. And it would be in the software providers best interest to make sure the casinos running their software behaves correctly.

This is why i cannot understand why playtech allows casinos running their software to have terms like this, it reflects badly on playtech. And in the long run may irreparably damage their credibility.

 

[Blathaon]

So i went through all the Netent casinos i could find to look for similar progressive terms, The good thing is that i did not find a single Netent casino who limits progressive withdrawals.

The bad thing is that i found another MG casino.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

5.3.15. An account holder who won a jackpot of more than € 5,000 in the progressive slots within 10 working days of the winnings being verified and then will be paid €5.000 a month until the entire jackpot is paid to the user. The Account holder will cover any withdraw fees related to such winnings and transactions.

 

[vinylweatherman]

So i went through all the Netent casinos i could find to look for similar progressive terms, The good thing is that i did not find a single Netent casino who limits progressive withdrawals.

The bad thing is that i found another MG casino.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

This is a Tain multi provider platform that happens to host Microgaming progressives. This could be a loophole that gets around Microgaming policy as other providers may well allow drip feed of progressives at $5000 per month.

This could be a real PR problem for MGS if the Mega Moolah is hit for the top of the range $5 million at such a provider, and it becomes common knowledge that the winning player is being drip fed the sum at $5000 per month. It will not be Tain under the spotlight, but Microgaming. Such a hit would take 1000 months to pay out at $5000 per month, which is 83 YEARS

It's not a matter of "if" either, but of "when".

This jackpot has already been hit on a platform provider, the Dark Knight on a site best known for Bingo, rather than a "regular" Microgaming casino.

 

[dave1888]

Boyle Games

Does this rule even apply to (the highly recommended by me) boyle games too? They have playtech slots with progressives and so do betfred they both paid me winnings in super quick time but Boyle is better as they paid me my no deposit win of £83 max from the free £5 chip without any deposit or verification!!

 

[Finn]

Playtech bought Euro Partners in 2011. All 5 Euro Partner licensee casinos are on Not Recommended list because of predatory progressive terms, 9.9k euro withdrawal limit kinda sucks if you hit progressive worth of millions. So it seems that Playtech allows this kind of behavior even with the casinos most closely associated with them...

Playtech Acquires Euro Partners Affiliate Program (2011)

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https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/
Not Recommended Casinos has all the 5 Euro Partner licensee casinos listed.

Casino Bellini
Vegas Red
Titan Casino
Europa Casino
Casino Tropez

 

[dizze]

Does this rule even apply to (the highly recommended by me) boyle games too? They have playtech slots with progressives and so do betfred they both paid me winnings in super quick time but Boyle is better as they paid me my no deposit win of £83 max from the free £5 chip without any deposit or verification!!

read the terms and conditions regarding max cashout, ( you could do it while sticking your slot on autoplay)

 

[KasinoKing]

Please add Golden Galaxy to the hall of shame!

I just got contacted by a Playtech casino to consider advertising them on my sites: Golden Galaxy Casino

As always, checked the terms and found the usual horseshit:

8.4.4 You are aware of and agree that players are allowed to withdraw a minimun of $20,£20,€20,AU 20,ZAR 200 and not more than $4,500/£4,500/€4,500/AU$4,500/ZAR45,000 per week with a total of and not exceeding $9,990/£9,990/€9,990/R99,900 per month. If the amount to be withdrawn is greater than $9,990/£9,990/€9,990/R99,900, the remaining amount will be placed back to the player's account, allowing the player to withdraw additional funds the following month in accordance with this term.
The foregoing applies also to Withdrawals of progressive jackpots. Withdrawals depend on all conditions specified above and the verification of all required documents as set forth in clause 9.4 below.
You are also aware and agree that a handling fee will be charged on all progressive Jackpot Winnings over $4,500/£4,500/€4,500/AU$4,500/ZAR45,000. The fee will be at the Casinos discretion up to a maximum of 5% of the Jackpot.

So if someone won Beach Life there today (currently £511K), the casino would take FOUR YEARS and 3 months to pay out, and potentially charge the player £25,550 for the priviledge of letting them keep HIS money in their bank, earning interest for them for that 4 years...

This casino is not on CM's list in the Rogue Pit - please can it be added?

KK

 

[MaryJean]

QUESTION RE: RTG LARGE WITHDRAWALS

I just got contacted by a Playtech casino to consider advertising them on my sites: Golden Galaxy Casino

As always, checked the terms and found the usual horseshit:



So if someone won Beach Life there today (currently £511K), the casino would take FOUR YEARS and 3 months to pay out, and potentially charge the player £25,550 for the priviledge of letting them keep HIS money in their bank, earning interest for them for that 4 years...

This casino is not on CM's list in the Rogue Pit - please can it be added?

KK

I note that this message started last year regarding Playtech and extra large jackpots, but it caused me to wonder about and check the RTG rules regarding this situation, since that is about all we have in USA.

After checking the few I have, I am still wondering,--so perhaps someone could clarify it for me.
(I happen to like to play Jackpot Pinata, and while I don't expect to win----who knows?--strange things do happen from time to time).

Anyway-- both Jackpot Capital and Slotastic state:

19.The maximum payout per customer per week is US$10,000. Slotastic(or Jackpot Capital) reserves the right to pay out higher winnings over a period of several weeks.

Inetbet states that Pana Trans handles the Progressive Jackpots and they pay directly to the customer (unless at their discretion they return it to the players casino account). They don't state what happens to it if that occurs.

It seems that they are all leaving themselves a lot of wiggle room, unless I'm missing something.

What is your opinion?

MaryJean

 

[dunover]

I just got contacted by a Playtech casino to consider advertising them on my sites: Golden Galaxy Casino

As always, checked the terms and found the usual horseshit:



So if someone won Beach Life there today (currently £511K), the casino would take FOUR YEARS and 3 months to pay out, and potentially charge the player £25,550 for the priviledge of letting them keep HIS money in their bank, earning interest for them for that 4 years...

This casino is not on CM's list in the Rogue Pit - please can it be added?

KK

I'm still at a loss how this carry-on is perpetuated.
Playtech are a UK company? Even if they're not, can't the various licensing authorities clamp down on this BS and force Playtech to pay the PLAYER directly if a jackpot is won, or else refuse to license Playtech software/casinos in their jurisdictions?
Hit 'em in the wallet and they'll soon come round...

I believe Playtech and the LGA's are at fault here, the former should volunteer to do this, the latter should make them do it.

One more thing - is there a cosy little arrangement going on whereby small-name casinos (not Boyle/PP etc.) like using Playtech software or are encouraged to join Playtech because of the potential profit they can make by abusing the jackpots? I.E. as in the above instance charging exorbitant fees to the winner as an unofficial casino 'cut' of the money, keeping it for the interest or use as 'free capital' in expanding their business or even worse pay a few instalments and then 'go out of business' with the money salted away abroad...and not forgetting the infamous '50% offer' a few years back where the winner was paid half and the other half vanished into the ether, complete theft IMO.

I'm beginning to wonder if Playtech are complicit in 'jackpot abuse'........

 

[KasinoKing]

I note that this message started last year regarding Playtech and extra large jackpots, but it caused me to wonder about and check the RTG rules regarding this situation, since that is about all we have in USA.

After checking the few I have, I am still wondering,--so perhaps someone could clarify it for me.
(I happen to like to play Jackpot Pinata, and while I don't expect to win----who knows?--strange things do happen from time to time).

Anyway-- both Jackpot Capital and Slotastic state:

19.The maximum payout per customer per week is US$10,000. Slotastic(or Jackpot Capital) reserves the right to pay out higher winnings over a period of several weeks.

Inetbet states that Pana Trans handles the Progressive Jackpots and they pay directly to the customer (unless at their discretion they return it to the players casino account). They don't state what happens to it if that occurs.

It seems that they are all leaving themselves a lot of wiggle room, unless I'm missing something.

What is your opinion?

MaryJean

Well with those 3 you should be safe, as they are Accredited here, though being in the USA COULD cause problems and delays. These are two of the conditions of accreditation:

Must pay winnings in a timely manner.*
Must pay out progressive jackpot wins in full or in reasonable chunks, regardless of any terms and conditions limiting payouts.**
* US PLAYERS: Please be advised that some casinos that accept US bets have difficulties in sending payments to the US. Play at your own risk.
** Excluding IGT casinos - this is noted within their listing.

I don't play progressives much myself anyway, but if I were in the USA and desperately wanted to play them, I would check with EACH casino first to find out what would happen should I win one.

KK

 

[zanzibar]

and not forgetting the infamous '50% offer' a few years back where the winner was paid half and the other half vanished into the ether, complete theft IMO.

I'm beginning to wonder if Playtech are complicit in 'jackpot abuse'........

Considering the owner of Joyland Casino at the time of the theft was Teddy Sagi, who also happens to be the majority Playtech shareholder and convicted stock fraudster, the answer is an emphatic yes.

 

[The Dude]

Rogued

Well, since it's been about six months since these casinos were placed in the Not Recommended section at Casinomeister, its pretty obvious that the operators don't care.

So I've upgraded this to a full blown rogue listing:
https://www.casinomeister.com/gambling-news/playtech-progressive-jackpots-scandal/

 

[maphesto]

They belong in the pit.

Did you investigate this about the lost jackpot further:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...s-been-won-anybody-knows-where.60027/?t=60027

Well, since it's been about six months since these casinos were placed in the Not Recommended section at Casinomeister, its pretty obvious that the operators don't care.

So I've upgraded this to a full blown rogue listing:
https://www.casinomeister.com/gambling-news/playtech-progressive-jackpots-scandal/

 

[The Dude]

They belong in the pit.

Did you investigate this about the lost jackpot further:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...s-been-won-anybody-knows-where.60027/?t=60027

Unfortunately, no.

 

[Przecinek]

Well, since it's been about six months since these casinos were placed in the Not Recommended section at Casinomeister, its pretty obvious that the operators don't care.

So I've upgraded this to a full blown rogue listing:
https://www.casinomeister.com/gambling-news/playtech-progressive-jackpots-scandal/

Good Call. Saddened to see Bwin among them (once a very well known and reputable outfit) and Sky Kings (affiliated with William Hill). I would expect at least these two to take some action

 

[stokes]

Are you sure about Bwin?
They are not using Playtech games (AFAIK) and I have not seen any restriction about payouts (at least in the terms in my language).

 

[Nottsogreen]

Are you sure about Bwin?
They are not using Playtech games (AFAIK) and I have not seen any restriction about payouts (at least in the terms in my language).

Yeah, afaik, Partycasino.com isnt using any Playtech games now. Everything is proprietary ?

 

[The Dude]

Are you sure about Bwin?
They are not using Playtech games (AFAIK) and I have not seen any restriction about payouts (at least in the terms in my language).

You're right: they no longer have Playtech games, but they still have the rogue term:

10.3

You agree that the maximum amount that You may withdraw is twenty thousand US Dollars ($20,000) (or the equivalent amount in EUR or GBP currency) every 30 business days. All amounts larger than twenty thousand US Dollars ($20,000) will be paid every 30 business days until the full withdrawal amount is reached. This condition also applies to winnings of progressive jackpots.

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[243 lines=daft]

It's going to be interesting to see if and how Netplay react to this. Their two brands being the highest profile TV casinos in the UK right now (jackpot247 and Supercasino) and both being rogued must make Netplay among the highest profile bona fide rogues.

The only higher profile rogue I can think of is Betfair, and Betfair as I recall actively approached CM to see what they had to do to get their rogue status lifted but balked at the fact that Bryan (correctly imo) insisted they make good the money they owed players.
The Netplay situation doesn't involve any financial outlay, only a change of terms, so hopefully they will do what is right and do it soon.

 

[hoff1985]

It's going to be interesting to see if and how Netplay react to this. Their two brands being the highest profile TV casinos in the UK right now (jackpot247 and Supercasino) and both being rogued must make Netplay among the highest profile bona fide rogues.

The only higher profile rogue I can think of is Betfair, and Betfair as I recall actively approached CM to see what they had to do to get their rogue status lifted but balked at the fact that Bryan (correctly imo) insisted they make good the money they owed players.
The Netplay situation doesn't involve any financial outlay, only a change of terms, so hopefully they will do what is right and do it soon.

I always wonder how much these big casinos care about being rogued?? Isn't their playerbase big enough that they can say "Screw Casinomeister" we don't care? I don't know...

 

[Casino2014man]

You're right: they no longer have Playtech games, but they still have the rogue term:

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I can't believe bwin have this term... They are huge and rich.. What utter douchebags..

 

[KasinoKing]

I always wonder how much these big casinos care about being rogued?? Isn't their playerbase big enough that they can say "Screw Casinomeister" we don't care? I don't know...

Well for most of them, it's pretty obvious that they don't give a damn about their players or affiliate marketing partners, so why should they give a flip what one or two websites say about them?
These guys really do have their heads in the sand...

KK

 

[The Dude]

I always wonder how much these big casinos care about being rogued?? Isn't their playerbase big enough that they can say "Screw Casinomeister" we don't care? I don't know...

Actually, a large part of this is due to player apathy. A huge mount of players are aware of this term either by reading it, or reading this thread. But they don't care.

If the players would take issue with this term and stop playing, yes - the casino would take notice.

So it's not only the casino that has its head in the sand...

 

[birthdaysuit]

I'm investing my time, money, and energy into playing these online casinos. Of course I take the rogue casino list carefully. I want to avoid mistakes before I make them. Casinomeister is your (and my) opportunity to learn from others' experiences. Who would like at a rogue list of casinos and think "I don't care, I'm sure they'll treat me just fine. Troubles with cashing out and payment issues happen to other people, but not me!" ??

 

[zanzibar]

Actually, a large part of this is due to player apathy. A huge mount of players are aware of this term either by reading it, or reading this thread. But they don't care.

I don't agree with this. I would say that a huge amount (probably the vast majority) of players don't bother reading the T&Cs and the casinos know this. That is why they bury these clauses half way down in a wall of text. You could call that apathy for not being bothered to read the T&Cs, but not because people do read them and know about it and don't care. Further to that unfortunately a vast majority of players have never heard of Casinomeister or the small handful of other sites that actually tell people these clauses exist, because they just picked a casino based on an ad that they saw on TV or online.

Then the vast majority of that vast majority never end up winning a progressive jackpot of an amount that is significantly affected by these payout clauses, so they never find out about them. It would not be surprising to find that any winners that complain get pressured by the casino holding the money to keep quiet. The casino is in the powerful position of being able to hold the funds as ransom. We know that happened in the Joyland case and they ended up stealing half the money from the player. So it's a problem that doesn't get much attention for various reasons including those.

 

[trickster]

Glad my casinos are not in the lists....this is a diabolical clause but am surprised that Bwin is in this list.. I thought it was a big casino and didn't do this kind of things. Wasn't it sponsoring Real and Milan sometime back?

 

[KasinoKing]

Glad my casinos are not in the lists....this is a diabolical clause but am surprised that Bwin is in this list.. I thought it was a big casino and didn't do this kind of things. Wasn't it sponsoring Real and Milan sometime back?

Yes - using money they stole from player's progressive wins...

KK

 

[theslotsking]

Theres something I dont understand.

Playtech casino's from experience dont have a deposit limit so how do they justify putting a withdrawl limit.. particularly when its just 10k a month. Its obviously to protect cashflow and if thats the case they shouldnt be in business.. period.

 

[lilianna]

I would like to win 10K per month ))) but not the limits not so interesting for me ) hope soon I'll win more )

 

[mrjeanluc1979]

Playtech : Problem

I play for a few years on Playtch casinos, I have always had problems: slot games frozen, incorect payout, slow payment...Now I stick to Microgaming casinos. No more headaches !

 

[dunover]

Just lately, I was revisiting a player issue which has really bothered me. In case you have forgotten (or were unaware) this was the problem with Sylvia P. who had won over $4.1 million dollars from a progressive slot at Joyland casino back in 2008. The casino had withdrawal terms of $9k per month and had applied this to her progressive win. That would have taken 39 years to pay out.

So the casino cut a deal with her using non-casino email addresses (thus erasing any evidence of dodginess), and she received about half. That thread is here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/stipulations-on-playtech-progressive-win.31033/

Playtech upheld the casino's decision stating that "it was in the terms and conditions, which she agreed to..." I was also told by the COO of William Hill back then (they had purchased Joyland and the casinos that went with it) that the $9k a month withdrawal limitations applied to progressive wins was unacceptable, and that the terms would be removed.

Well guess what folks? The term is back. And not only is it back at Joyland casino, but it is being used on +40 Playtech casinos - which are now listed here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

Most of the casinos listed have $9k - $15k a month withdrawal limitations and apply this to progressive wins as well. These are officially Not Recommended at Casinomeister. Would you recommend these casinos to anyone? I sure won't.

And just a note - most Top Game casinos do the same.

Sorry for the necromancy here, but I was looking to check the Playtech casinos with dishonest progressive retentions and Bryans link with this VITAL information has redirected with the forum revision to simply the Rogue list which doesn't have these Playtechs mentioned. As this could be important to some, can we have it accessible again?

If I have missed it when searching and it's easily found, then I'm a bellend and apologize!

P.S. Sod's law, found it 10 seconds after this post....

https://www.casinomeister.com/gambling-news/playtech-progressive-jackpots-scandal/

Why aren't these added to the rogue list, as people may miss them otherwise?

Yeah, I know there's a hell of a lot of them, but maybe a little link in the rogue page easily spotted?

 

[The Dude]

Why aren't these added to the rogue list, as people may miss them otherwise?

Yeah, I know there's a hell of a lot of them, but maybe a little link in the rogue page easily spotted?

On the to do list. As I mentioned in this week's video (in post production - upload scheduled for sometime tomorrow), I need to create a separate review page for each rogue entity.

So I am a busy bee as can be.

Some of these casinos have removed this clause by the way, so they are good to go. But yeah, they should be noted.

 

[MazzarielloLuig]

mrjeanluc1979: -- I play for a few years on Playtch casinos, I have always had problems: slot games frozen, incorect payout, slow payment...Now I stick to Microgaming casinos. No more headaches ! :thumbsup


Me too...I saw a lot of problems in this nice!

 

[Rairy]

I play for a few years on Playtch casinos, I have always had problems: slot games frozen, incorect payout, slow payment...Now I stick to Microgaming casinos. No more headaches !

I have never had problems with Playtech, but I definitely prefer Microgaming casinos.

 

[The Dude]

Just a heads up that this list of rogue casinos has been moved to here: Playtech Progressive Jackpots Scandal

I removed a number of casinos that no longer have this unethical predatory term. But it's still there in 20 of them. Some even licensed in the UK. What a pathetic joke.

 

[Radiowave]

The BIG problem with Playtech is that the payouts are not done via an annuity, but can stop at any time if a casino goes bust. Playtech however, have handed over the whole amount to the casino, so apart from the publicity, operators get a substantial interest free loan over a number of years, if not decades