Roguish PKR revoking bonus for no reason.

[topoor]

Roar, thats a very good suggestion. In England it might be covered under the data protection act. It just depends whether moneybookers are covered under fraud prevention legisaltion as to whether or not I could successfully demand it.

I will look into this.

 

[maxd]

Sir Daniel, please either PAB or make a formal complaint to Alderney. ...

Go here if you are interested in the Pitch-A-Bitch process: Past PABs

Or here if you'd like to see the sort of things we've handled in the past: Past PABs

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well BlizeH my question to you would be did you abuse the bonus? Or did you as I did make an invited deposit in good faith, wager the required amount on allowed games and then withdraw?

If you have done nothing wrong I strongly urge you to send an email to Alderney. It will take 5 minutes and along with my email it could prevent a rogue casino from behaving in this manner.

In a further unbelievable development my moneybookers account has been closed. Moneybookers wont reveal further details except to say that they have received a complaint from an unnamed merchant. As PKR is the only recent merchant I have used it is obviously them.

I am shocked and appalled at this spiteful act from PKR. In addtion I am very disappointed with moneybookers who being a financial institution should ensure that they behave impecabbly and only with proof.

I have advised Alderney of this as it is surely rogue behaviour and am going to file a formal complaint to the FSA regarding moneybookers actions.

All this beacuse of that damn PKR. I wish I had never heard of them and cant say strongly enough.

DO NOT PLAY AT PKR CASINO.

This situation with Moneybookers points to this being much more than a bonus issue. They most likely have accused you of fraud or money laundering activities. "abusing" bonuses is simply the OPINION of the casino where a player has obeyed all the rules, yet has appeared to have played to win, rather than extend playing time. Passing this information to Moneybookers is an illegal act, as this is your "personal data", and they have damaged your reputation, and can now be taken to court for Libel. A complaint can also be sent not to the Alderney Gambling commission, but to the Alderney government's department that regulates the handling of personal data.
As for Moneybookers, it would be a request under the Data Protection act, enclosing 10 for disclosure of all data held about you. Further, you should get a credit report (don't hurry though, it will take some time for this incident to appear if it is going to). Three agencies handle this, and it costs 2 to get a report from all three - total outlay 16.

Given that is seems that PKR are pulling this "bonus abuse" excuse with a number of players, I am left wondering whether Alderney is becoming another Kahnawake, albeit a UK whitelisted one.

I do not understand why I was unable to navigate to the full list of licence holders, I went round in cirlces for 20 minutes, and I DID try that link first.

We can now judge Alderney on the SPEED at which they address this, as having a Moneybookers account summarily closed before any investigation has taken place seems like rogue action, and should prejudice PKR's position if it turns out to have been them (they knew that the dispute process was ongoing, yet caused an adverse report to go to a third party before Alderney had ruled on the case).

 

[Nifty29]

What a shocking situation this one is. PKR should be closed down immediately if Alderney wants to maintain any image of fairness and reliability in protecting players.

It also seems that many casinos are taking a different view on 'bonus abuse' lately....

A few weeks back I received $100 NO DEPOSIT loyalty bonus (as I was an EliteVIP) from This Is Vegas and played for a while and lost etc (as you do ). A few days later, I deposited a small amount and cashed out a few hundred bucks. The next day I receive an email from John (TIV manager) stating that I was a 'bonus abuser' and that I was banned from all further promotional offers.

What the??

Its interesting to note that I ONLY play slots and the high variance ones at that..AND they sent me $100 FREE a few days earlier. In my opinion, the former 400Group casinos have lost the plot. I only play at SlotoCash nowadays as they pay super fast and always send me a freebie when Im losing (and sometimes even when Im winning!).

Im sorry to derail a little here, but with the topic being 'bonus abuse' I thought it was relevant.

Hope everyone gets paid from PKR!

 

[blizeH]

If I wish to dispute this and hopefully get the $250 from the reload bonus back, who should I contact? Alderney?

Cheers

 

[topoor]

I would suggest that you contact Kelly Spencer at Alderney. The email address is Info__AGCC@agcc.gg.
This is the person dealing with my complaint.

My pab here at Casinomeister is on hold pending the decision of Alderney so I believe it would make sense to have all copmplaints dealt with at the same time and by the same body to ensure the speediest resolution.

As no decision has yet been reached by Alderney it can only strengthen both our cases if you submit your complaint to them.

 

[Rodmania]

I also get bonus banned, i play all different games, but i am a bonus abuser???
I send my documents for verfication but they do not gave back my deposit, they stolen me also bucks from this.

I made a PAB

I hope we all get our money and winnings back, tahts such a shame...

 

[Rhyzz]

Simple fact of the matter is this...

Someone who plays Slots or Casino Hold'em is not a bonus abuser. They may be a bonus seeker, but that is for a Casino to decide and to prevent them from claiming any further offers.

PKR are on very dangerous ground here, if everything that top has said is true and there is nothing being left out, Alderney should have sense enough to make them pay up and get them to seriously review their retention policies.

 

[topoor]

Only thing I have left out is this official email from PKR.

Your documents have been cleared by my team, as discussed yesterday, we will refund to your Moneybookers account the remaining of the account balance minus the bonus.

I understand that you have raised a complaint with Alderney with regard to the bonus issue, I will wait for Alderney to raise this matter with me.



Best regards,



Motie Bring

Head of Transaction Services

PKR TECHNOLOGIES

 

[vinylweatherman]

Only thing I have left out is this official email from PKR.

Your documents have been cleared by my team, as discussed yesterday, we will refund to your Moneybookers account the remaining of the account balance minus the bonus.

I understand that you have raised a complaint with Alderney with regard to the bonus issue, I will wait for Alderney to raise this matter with me.



Best regards,



Motie Bring

Head of Transaction Services

PKR TECHNOLOGIES

This still leaves the unanswered question of the sudden closure of your Moneybookers account, as well as their refusal to say which term was broken, with their inferrence that this is information that would "help" with further abuse (fraud?) at the casino site.

If they can come up with an explanation as to how your playing pattern breaches the "spirit" of their promotion, let alone the terms and conditions, why have they not done so, even with what looks like a mass of complaints landing at Alderney.

It would be best if ALL players caught up in this go straight to Alderney, and forget about PAB for the moment. This will give the Alderney commission the chance to see the big picture, and the casino cannot then claim that this was an "isolated incident" - something many companies try when caught lacking by watchdog authorities.
Alderney will have a different view than the casino, and PKR will have to explain "bonus abuse" as applied to casino hold'em, and worse still, for SLOTS!!!!
If ANY promotion is offered to a player, or is advertised as available without restrictions, they cannot justify action purely because a player claimed the offer.
Alderney will also realise that the eyes of the wider player community are on them, and they would not want to lose their trust at this early stage, less than a year since the UK brought in the regulations that gave Alderney their EU wide status as being able to offer licences that clear the holders to freely market within much of the EU.

 

[lauram]

How does a casino get the power to have one of our accounts closed such as moneybookers and so on. As long as moneybookers was funded and casino got their funds how in the world does the casino have any power to have her moneybookers account closed. While back i had a instadebit prob with a casino trying to pay me, in the long run it was my error in not doing something instadebit asked, but not once during that time did i think this casino could turn around and say hey instadebit dont allow her to use her account. GOOD LUCK
with this keep us posted.

 

[topoor]

My latest communication from Moneybookers sheds no light on this either. The only conclusion I can come to is that PKR either a, lied to Moneybookers and told them that they had flat out caught me in a frauduelent act or b, are unhappy with me for complaining to Alderney and posting here that they have used their power as a merchant at Moneybooker to insist that I am punished for such behaviour. Perhaps this has something to do with it "PKR is the webs fastest growing online poker room with over 1million players signed up within its first year – a record for the online gaming industry. "

As can be shown by the email from Motie Bring of PKR my identity has been verified and my deposit + $17 winnings returned so there is zero chance that they have caught me committing fraud.

I would like to think that Moneybookers themselved have been decieved but given the recent correspondence and the lack of openness or discussion I am not so sure.


Dear Mrs. *******,

Thank you for contacting the Moneybookers Service.

Please be advised that we have already revealed all information about your case and this is the actual information that we are obligated by law to provide our customers with. Moneybookers cannot reveal any of its internal security procedures. However, please note that our Security Department will gladly assist with additional information, if contacted by the authorities. Once again, we would like to confirm the decision that you can no longer use our services. In case you are not satisfied with the manner your case was handled, you can file an official complaint against Moneybookers. Please find attached all the necessary information regarding this matter.

We hope you'll find this information useful.

Best regards,

Theodor

Team Leader Moneybookers Service

I have written to Alderney today asking for an update. It may well be too early and I have not received a reply but I intend to ask for weekly updates and will expect some progress reports.

 

[topoor]

I have received a reply from Alderney stating that they are waiting for my game history from PKR and that they will be able to make a decision following its receipt.

They have also advised that the best email address for them is info@agcc.gg not the one posted earlier.

If you have emailed them at the earlier posted address it will be a good idea to resend to info@agcc.gg.

Hopefully this wont take to much longer.

 

[Fleur-De-Lis]

Just a thought: if topoor is from USA, and used moneybookers for gambling purposes, may be it was enough for PKR to report this fact, and have account closed?

Furthermore, it is strictly forbidden for citizens or residents of certain countries such as but not limited to the United States of America, Turkey, China, Malaysia or Israel to send payments to websites offering gambling services such as sports betting, casino games and pokers games. Moneybookers reserves the right in its own discretion to amend the list of countries where it is prohibited to send payments to gambling activities as described above.

 

[topoor]

I live in England and have never accessed the internet from any other country.

 

[kernow]

Someone who plays Slots or Casino Hold'em is not a bonus abuser.

They are if they use a bot to play for them.

 

[topoor]

Not that it applies in my case but on the advice of a friend who has advised me that PKR probably thought I was using a bot I have checked the terms and conditions of the offer and Bot play is not specifically excluded.

So technically they wouldnt be bonus abusers. Even if PKR did believe that, it doesnt explain moneybookers or PKR's refusal to explain their decsion.

I suppose if any casino suspected bot play they could invoke the "FU" clause but they would surely need proof such as a 12 hour straight minimum coins session without beaks?

 

[Fleur-De-Lis]

I live in England and have never accessed the internet from any other country.

I see, glad I was wrong. Did you try to call Moneybookers? I found out you can get more info over the telephone with them, if you clench your teeth and try to be friendly

Customer Call Centre:
Monday - Friday 9:00 - 18:00 GMT International: +44 870 383 0232
UK: 0905 848 0011 (calls cost 25p / minute)

 

[topoor]

Yes I rang them. The people on the phone are friendly enough but they wont let you speak to Security or Management so you can get nowhere. I followed their advice and sent in details of my case and its subsequent complaint but to no avail.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yes I rang them. The people on the phone are friendly enough but they wont let you speak to Security or Management so you can get nowhere. I followed their advice and sent in details of my case and its subsequent complaint but to no avail.

Since you have received a "deadlock letter" (Email in your case), you should now complain to the relevant authorities. This may well be the Financial Ombudsman here in the UK, since Moneybookers have suspended an important service for an internet gambler (legal here in UK), and there has been no evidence that you have broken T & C, and you suspect a "spiteful" complaint from a merchant (PKR) simply because you lodged a complaint with the Alderney licencing authorities about their arbitrary reneging on a bet without explanation to you.

It is great that Alderney are looking at playlogs, they will be able to gain their own impression as to whether you broke the terms and conditions of the offers.

Now it is time to pursue Moneybookers through the Financial Ombudsman while you wait on Alderney.

Neteller would be a good alternative for online gambling. The fees are higher, but phone support is FREE. Currently, Barclaycard is good for internet gambling if you play in UK Pounds, no fees - treated as ordinary purchases. Withdrawals will come back to the Barclaycard as they are in the "OCT Scheme". Other withdrawals though, would have to be by cheque, which might be a nuisance.

 

[c_note]

Moneyhookers.. I mean bookers

Vinyl was right. MB T&C's state :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

3.6. Company will ensure that all personal details of the Customer are held in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Company's published privacy statement.

13.2. The Financial Ombudsman Service applies to Moneybookers' e-money scheme. Customer may refer complaints that are eligible to be referred to the Financial Ombudsman Service to the Financial Ombudsman if a matter cannot be resolved in accordance with Moneybookers' standard complaint handling procedures. Information regarding our internal complaint handling procedures and the Financial Ombudsman Service can be requested by contacting Moneybookers’ customer service department.

The Financial Ombudsman Service is available from

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The relevant Data Protection act section is :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I was going to check the pkr site to see if they are provided to operate under the data protection act, but their site is down for maintenance. It should be in their Privacy Policy or Terms & Conditions.


Good luck..

 

[Roar]

I have received a reply from Alderney stating that they are waiting for my game history from PKR and that they will be able to make a decision following its receipt.

Hopefully this wont take to much longer.

Very strange chronology of events.

Did Alderney not mention the basis on which PKR are justifying their confiscation of funds ("bonus abuse" requires definition if it indeed does exist)?

Looking at game history might be akin to looking at Tea Leaves. What on earth are they expecting to see in the Tea Leaves?

If per chance a "bot" is seen in the Tea Leaves should Alderney not then seek your further representations before arriving at a decision? (Wow! You can just imagine the ramifications of an adverse player ruling.)

Having said that it does seem Alderney are moving with some haste toward a thankfully timely resolution which puts the likes of Malta LGA to an absolute shame.

Keep us updated topoor - it's better than watching TV.

>

 

[Rodmania]

Hi,

good news

for 20 minutes i get 250 $ from PKr after my first cash back from 420 $
so in total they must me get "only" 250 $ for my 920 $ total.

I hope they will credited in the next days, i email them the situation, but this is the right step

I will inform you

 

[spearmaster]

They are if they use a bot to play for them.

Seeing as that Playtech slots have autoplay built in, and autoplay is essentially a bot, I think we can safely say that this statement is incorrect.

 

[topoor]

Did Alderney not mention the basis on which PKR are justifying their confiscation of funds ("bonus abuse" requires definition if it indeed does exist)?

>

No, the statement simply read:

"At present the AGCC are in the progress of retrieving your gaming history so that we can assess it. Once we have done this we should be able to make an informed decision regarding your complaint."