Resolved Palace Group Rules Shenanigans

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Ouh my God! This is absolute nonsense from the casino and ecogra.
Like I mentioned before - derail the thread and you'll wish you didn't. :cool:

...It makes no any sense at all! No need to say that this is one more (and new) dirty trick of internet casino industry against the gamblers' community.
Reread their terms and conditions. It does make sense from their perspective. Instead of voiding the player's winnings because they "don't like the way you play", they are actually telling you how not to play. If you play like this, you can be sure they will scrutinize your account and decide whether or not they want you as a player - and they can void your winnings as well.

...That means that there is only one reason for this term - that they LIKE to have this term just the way it is worded, so that they can void as MANY wins as possible. That we are just hearing about it affecting players doesn't mean much - the fact is, most players online don't read, let alone write, in any forums. (This explains the continued existence of scum like Virtual Group)
Nope, I disagree. The reason that the Virtual group exists is because of bonus hunters. They will take their chances with these casinos hoping to get paid if they win. In most cases, they lose their deposits because of ridiculous play through requirements. Most players are well read and are aware of player forums such as this.

The reason why this term exists is to protect the casino from specific ways in which some advantage players choose to play. Is it fair? The jury is still out on this one but I'm inclined to say no since there is room for the casino to use this against players. The question is: where is the line drawn to be fair for both sides of the equation?
 

deltoid

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Location
canada
The reason why this term exists is to protect the casino from specific ways in which some advantage players choose to play. Is it fair? The jury is still out on this one but I'm inclined to say no since there is room for the casino to use this against players. The question is: where is the line drawn to be fair for both sides of the equation?

Galaxiworld drew that line and gives the players, and casino, a fair T&C. Simple as that.
 

gingeanth89

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 1, 2009
Location
Winsford
Palace Group shenanigans

The bonus you took was this a opening account bonus or one you applied for?

Yes, this was an opening account/new player bonus. I accepted this in good faith from a site which was one among many I could have picked from the list of CM accredited casinos.
 

gingeanth89

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 1, 2009
Location
Winsford
Spin Palace/Palace Group shenanigans

The reason why this term exists is to protect the casino from specific ways in which some advantage players choose to play. Is it fair? The jury is still out on this one but I'm inclined to say no since there is room for the casino to use this against players. The question is: where is the line drawn to be fair for both sides of the equation?

I'm sure when the rule was written, the idea was to stop players using more than 50% of their starting balance to prevent bonus abuse. It's just being misused here to avoid a payout - are times really that hard for the Palace Group?

Who is it at eCogra that decides if a casino is fair or not? Who at Casinomeister.com makes the decisions before putting casinos on the accredited list? To both I think it's true to say that the people have spoken. Everyone is in agreement that the casino has not acted fairly here. The whole Palace group should have their eCogra seal taken off them and they should be rogued here. Either that or they should apologize, pay me and sort their rules out. The casino mentioned earlier looks like they nailed the idea of this rule to me.
 

suzy1975

Banned User
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Location
glasgow
you thief

Pure bonus abuse. By the CASINO.

So let's say you're playing $5 video poker and you lose everything, down to your last $5. Well, guess what, you win a royal flush on your last bet! OHHH too bad, you were betting more than 50% or more of your balance for the last two bets, we get to keep your money! haha!

Unbelievable, completely scum behavior. I don't care if it's in their terms and conditions, they could write you must be wearing a blue hat in order to be eligible to win, it's a complete rip off and this is theft, out right. JUST IMAGINE if this guy had lost everything on his last bet, which was more than likely. Would the casino have refunded his $150??? NO. It's win-win-win for the casino.
well done for stealing the Meisters blue hat saying from the playtech Jackpot winner.....come on make up your own ....i mean they could for instance say you must be wearing lacey knickers lol.......
 

suzy1975

Banned User
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Location
glasgow
ludicrous behaviour

I recently had a terrible experience with Spin Palace of the Palace Group.

I made a new account, deposited 150 and got a 100% matching bonus. Balance 300. Ive checked their terms and conditions and I can play 3 Card Poker which is great because thats what I normally play at land based casinos.

1st Hand, bet 120, call - lose.
2nd Hand, bet 60, fold
3rd Hand, bet 90, fold
4th Hand bet my remaining 30 quid and hit a straight flush! Happy Day! 2700.

I go to withdraw, but my balance is locked as the wager requirements have not yet been met. I play slots, eventually clearing the wager requirement and then cash out a tidy 2400.

I receive an email from Spin Palace asking me for ID and then another email offering me a 20% bonus on the full amount if I cancel my withdrawal with no strings. Tempting though this is, Im a bit short on funds recently so I decline the special extra bonus and ask them to just pay me.

Two days later I check my neteller account and The Palace Group have deposited 150 with me. WTF? I immediately contact support and ask them where the rest of my money is. They email back and say that their risk department has confiscated my winnings and the decision is final. After a few more emails they quote the following rule:

"Your withdrawals are more likely to be confiscated due to you breaking the terms and conditions of the casino. As per casino terms and conditions, before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns e.g. playing of equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting, **placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance and bonus**, all of which shall be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Should the Casino deem that practices such as this have been utilized, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings."

Here`s a quote from the eCogra ruling (against me)

* 1st bet, wagered 120 40% of balance and bonus and lost
* 2nd bet, wagered 60 33% of balance and bonus and lost
* 3rd bet, wagered 90 75% of balance and bonus and lost
* 4th bet, wagered remaining 30 and won 2700 with a straight flush 100% of balance and bonus

Your 3rd and 4th bets are in breach of the clause and as such the operator is within his rights to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings. When the operator reviews an account for irregular playing patterns they take the original bets, the way in which wagering was met and other factors into account before making a final decision.

Im shocked. I didnt increase my bet size but because I was losing and my balance was going down the percentage of my balance being bet was going up.

A simple argument shows just how unfair this rule really is. If I had deposited 10 and gotten a 10 bonus then played jackpot slots at 1 a spin, losing the first 19 spins then hitting a big jackpot on the last spin I would have wagered 100% of my balance on the last spin breaking the rule and had my winnings confiscated. Does that sound fair to you? The whole Palace Group has this term hidden away deep in their Terms and Conditions. They all have the eCogra "safe and FAIR" seal. What was I supposed to do? Decrease my bet size after every loss to stay within their rules? What about if I had..Eventually Id be betting 1 a hand..then 50p...then 25p and so on and so forth to inifinty. I feel like I have been straight ripped off by this group. Your thoughts Casinomeister members? Anyone else had this sort of experience? I am doubly gutted because I found the casino on the Casinomeister accredited list and they are eCogra registered. I didnt think anyone on these lists would risk their good standing by hiding behind this sort of terrible rule which seems clearly designed to claw back wins in any way possible.

A very unhappy Spin Palace/Palace Group customer.

Anthony
Hi Anthony, i am disgusted but not shocked at these antics nor of those by ecogra....you do sometimes get the feeling you are up against it with them both as they seem to be working hand in hand, however that said....if Brian has said there aint much you can do because of there t&c then im sorry hun but you are pretty much screwed. Why do people continue to go to ecogra when they are as well coming straight to the casinomeister crew as they are fairer and more impartial.:confused:
 

deltoid

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Location
canada
well done for stealing the Meisters blue hat saying from the playtech Jackpot winner.....come on make up your own ....i mean they could for instance say you must be wearing lacey knickers lol.......

LOL I wasn't stealing, I was referencing it :) Please don't put me in the rogue webmaster/poster category lol!!

Look I generally agree with the Meister all things considered, but I think he and I have a difference of opinion on this. To me this term is a Blue Hat Term just as the 9k a month term is, if not more!

Players have a right to fair terms, and those terms ARE out there - eg Galaxiworld. Really, the software should be able to limit how much the player bets when they have a bonus but afaik this hasn't been done yet. That way the casino is protected, and the player has a FAIR shake at winning and getting paid!
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
A bit OT but found this gem in their T&Cs:

30. Spin Palace Casino reserves the right to pay all Progressive Jackpot winnings in US dollars.
The amount to be paid, will be determined by the US Dollar Progressive Jackpot amount on the Progressive Game played, at the time the jackpot was won.




And on the FL terms, they never changed them. It was just "damage control" on their part. But even they never applied the T&Cs in such a way that Spin Palace now did.

Edit: The term they used to rip the player isnt in the Finnish T&Cs. Wonder what would have happened if I had been the OP?

Most T&C's state that where there is a discrepancy between another language and the English language version, the English language version will prevail.
 

gingeanth89

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 1, 2009
Location
Winsford
Spin Palace/The Palace Group shenanigans

Really, the software should be able to limit how much the player bets when they have a bonus but afaik this hasn't been done yet. That way the casino is protected, and the player has a FAIR shake at winning and getting paid!

But thats just it Deltoid! They do have their software set up to limit your bets! They have it set to prevent bonus abuse, they have a wager requirement to stop bonus abuse, they have restricted the games you can play to stop bonus abuse. Now I find that they also have a rule that they can use as a catch all to stop anyone with a bonus from ever being paid!!

The Palace Group has gone rogue. Run for the hills everybody!

Avoid at all costs: Spin Palace, Ruby Fortune, Mummy's Gold, Piggs Casino and Jackpots in a Flash. They will not pay you if you win!

Did I miss any of them?
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Admin note: chill out

...

The Palace Group has gone rogue. Run for the hills everybody!

Avoid at all costs: Spin Palace, Ruby Fortune, Mummy's Gold, Piggs Casino and Jackpots in a Flash. They will not pay you if you win!
Okay - I know you're a newbie here, but if you have an issue, we'll look at it and talk about it. I've contacted the casino rep, and hopefully they'll be making a statement about this tomorrow.

We're going to discuss this in a civilized manner. If you have come here to slag off and start a casino thrash thread, you've come to the wrong place. If you've come here to debate an issue - you're in the right place.

If you want to affect change, then you'd better chill out.

So word to the wise - I want to hear constructive comments concerning these terms and conditions. Any more trash talk and I'll cut off your access to this thread. Thank you for your understanding.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
For the record, I have already made my position clear to CM and to eCOGRA.

I wish you would share that with the rest of us here since you are a well respected member and I for one enjoy hearing and reading your thoughts on such matters of high importance..:)
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
I wish you would share that with the rest of us here since you are a well respected member and I for one enjoy hearing and reading your thoughts on such matters of high importance..:)

LOL, I didn't think it would be necessary :)

The short and sweet of the matter is, it is mathematically impossible for someone who takes a bonus to avoid breaching this term if they bet everything they have left in their account - even if it's only 1 cent.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I wish you would share that with the rest of us here since you are a well respected member and I for one enjoy hearing and reading your thoughts on such matters of high importance..:)
The PAB came in Friday afternoon. We had looked at the terms and conditions and understood that yes, the player had broken these. But we have been debating the issue of their fairness privately since.

I'd like to hear from the casino representative so we can have a balanced discussion. So perhaps Spear can respond to the rep's comments as soon as he has a chance to get involved.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
LOL, I didn't think it would be necessary :)

The short and sweet of the matter is, it is mathematically impossible for someone who takes a bonus to avoid breaching this term if they bet everything they have left in their account - even if it's only 1 cent.

The PAB came in Friday afternoon. We had looked at the terms and conditions and understood that yes, the player had broken these. But we have been debating the issue of their fairness privately since.

I'd like to hear from the casino representative so we can have a balanced discussion. So perhaps Spear can respond to the rep's comments as soon as he has a chance to get involved.

Thanks guys for elaborating a little further on this...much appreciated..:thumbsup:
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Only thing I can say is that maybe it's time that everyone (players, affiliates, eCOGRA, Casinomeister et. al, and so on) start taking a closer look at T&C's and refusing to accept those which are not fair, are open to interpretation, and those which are considered FU clauses and can be invoked at will.

Highlighting the difference between the Palace Group and FL T&C's as compared to 32Red's T&C's for their sign up bonus, which is only $32, btw. The amount itself is much less open to "abuse" (God, I hate that word, period) for starters.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns e.g. playing of equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting, placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance and bonus, all of which shall be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Should the Casino deem that practices such as this have been utilized, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

And from the 32Red Sign Up Bonus page:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


32Red welcomes players from all countries around the world (except for those prohibited. However, there are some players who wish to take undue advantage of this free chip welcome bonus offer. In the interests of fair gaming therefore, players may not place individual bets equal to or in excess of 25% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. Any winnings derived from bets placed to the value of 25% or more of the bonus before wagering requirements for that bonus have been met will initiate a further wagering requirement of 100 times the amount won.

Do people see the difference? Palace Group and FL, open to interpretation. 32Red, no interpretation involved. The maximum bonus you can receive is $32and therefore the maximum bet that you can place prior to clearing WR is $8...it doesn't get any clearer than that. They must have a bunch of rocket scientists working at 32Red.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
Only thing I can say is that maybe it's time that everyone (players, affiliates, eCOGRA, Casinomeister et. al, and so on) start taking a closer look at T&C's and refusing to accept those which are not fair, are open to interpretation, and those which are considered FU clauses and can be invoked at will.

Highlighting the difference between the Palace Group and FL T&C's as compared to 32Red's T&C's for their sign up bonus, which is only $32, btw. The amount itself is much less open to "abuse" (God, I hate that word, period) for starters.



And from the 32Red Sign Up Bonus page:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.




Do people see the difference? Palace Group and FL, open to interpretation. 32Red, no interpretation involved. The maximum bonus you can receive is $32and therefore the maximum bet that you can place prior to clearing WR is $8...it doesn't get any clearer than that. They must have a bunch of rocket scientists working at 32Red.

If everyone followed 32Red's model or even 3Dice's model...:eek2: well hell, we wouldn't have much to talk about on here would we..:D
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
And when the rep comes over he could also explain this term

30. Spin Palace Casino reserves the right to pay all Progressive Jackpot winnings in US dollars.
The amount to be paid, will be determined by the US Dollar Progressive Jackpot amount on the Progressive Game played, at the time the jackpot was won.


Lets say I win a 1 million progressive and play in euros they would have the right according to their T&Cs to pay that amount (1 million) in USD. Or what does that term exactly mean?

Edit: Or have I misunderstood the term? My mother tongue is Swedish, not English, so I may have misinterpreted it.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
And when the rep comes over he could also explain this term

30. Spin Palace Casino reserves the right to pay all Progressive Jackpot winnings in US dollars.
The amount to be paid, will be determined by the US Dollar Progressive Jackpot amount on the Progressive Game played, at the time the jackpot was won.


Lets say I win a 1 million progressive and play in euros they would have the right according to their T&Cs to pay that amount (1 million) in USD. Or what does that term exactly mean?

I guess that term could have quite a precedence considering the current value of the $Dollar as compared to other major world currencies at the moment. :eek2:
 

gingeanth89

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 1, 2009
Location
Winsford
Spin Palace/Palace Group shenanigans

Okay - I know you're a newbie here, but if you have an issue, we'll look at it and talk about it. I've contacted the casino rep, and hopefully they'll be making a statement about this tomorrow.

We're going to discuss this in a civilized manner. If you have come here to slag off and start a casino thrash thread, you've come to the wrong place. If you've come here to debate an issue - you're in the right place.

If you want to affect change, then you'd better chill out.

So word to the wise - I want to hear constructive comments concerning these terms and conditions. Any more trash talk and I'll cut off your access to this thread. Thank you for your understanding.

As I understood it, the casino will not enter into any discussion, eCogra say the rules are the rules end of and so did you when I tried PAB. In saying that I did go on a bit of a rant and Im sorry. Is there a sheepish emoticon?
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
As I understood it, the casino will not enter into any discussion, eCogra say the rules are the rules end of and so did you when I tried PAB. In saying that I did go on a bit of a rant and Im sorry. Is there a sheepish emoticon?

Is this what you're looking for? :oops:
 

gingeanth89

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 1, 2009
Location
Winsford
Spin Palace/Palace Group rules shenanigans

LOL, I didn't think it would be necessary :)

The short and sweet of the matter is, it is mathematically impossible for someone who takes a bonus to avoid breaching this term if they bet everything they have left in their account - even if it's only 1 cent.

Amen to that. Exactly the point I tried to make to Spin Palace themselves along with eCogra and anyone else who'd listen. I thought that the power of this logical argument would end the dispute and get me paid. Didn't.:mad:
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
Sorry if I'm regurgitating a previous posters comment.

I receive an email from Spin Palace asking me for ID and then another email offering me a 20% bonus on the full amount if I cancel my withdrawal with no strings.

I can recall a heap a cr#p going down over Fortune Lounge Group pulling a similar stunt on anyone who cashed in winnings.

My point is...The casino accepted the bet & obviously accepted the win otherwise the player would not have received the 20% reversal offer.

The player needs to be paid, end of story.

Cheers
T
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
LOL, I didn't think it would be necessary :)

The short and sweet of the matter is, it is mathematically impossible for someone who takes a bonus to avoid breaching this term if they bet everything they have left in their account - even if it's only 1 cent.

Spot on Spear. They must also take into account the size of the last bet relative to previous bets. If the former is of less value than the latter the terms should not be allowed to stand. Conversely, if the final bet exceeds the value of previous bets then the condition should be allowed to stand.
 
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