Paddy power not refunding deposit

[snorky510238]

Just to point out the op is female.

 

[ed skull murphy]

Just to point out the op is female.

Oh, well, that explains it then!

Give the lassie her money back, PP, you know it makes sense!

 

[nutnut]

Make it simple you self exclude at one you never gamble again online. No reason to self exclude unless you have a problem and if you do then don''t ever go back!

 

[adamjames]

Make it simple you self exclude at one you never gamble again online. No reason to self exclude unless you have a problem and if you do then don''t ever go back!

Do you not think if it were that simple then addiction would not exist.No different than saying someone can "just stop" smoking/drinking/shooting up...you have to be an addict to understand an addict.

 

[ed skull murphy]

Do you not think if it were that simple then addiction would not exist.No different than saying someone can "just stop" smoking/drinking/shooting up...you have to be an addict to understand an addict.

I think what nutnut means is that if you self-exclude at one casino, it should trigger a blanket self-exclusion to any online site... but that's a bit difficult to implement due to privacy legislation; short of a Big Brother central licensing database, it would mean sharing the customer's personal details to all and sundry.

 

[MaltesePlayer]

Heya, I used to work for Betfair and might be able to explain the process but to be honest, I can't be arsed to go through the entire thread Care to drop me a PM (no personal info) and just the situation? Might be able to guide and help you out

 

[Jmassie12]

Yes in all fairness I didn't read the terms and Condituons I just wanted to play and if I did I would've maybe realised that they were connected but I have been doin loads reading about this and that's why I knew I should ask for the deposit 2 be returned I didn't no this before I played. All I'm stating is that this casino shouldve made the correct checks and not let me open the account in the 1st place because let's face it now if I did win and asked to withdraw I would r have got the winnings would I ? Somethin I obv didn't no at the time or I wouodnt have deposited at all So my question is if I won wouod they keep the winnings and return the deposit only .. I'm guessing after reading other people's posts that's what they do do I was def gonna lose either way which I think is unfair.

 

[goatwack]

I know what you mean about the thread length, whew. Those two pages are a killer

 

[MaltesePlayer]

I know what you mean about the thread length, whew. Those two pages are a killer

I'm at work, Hush

 

[dunover]

Do they get card charges free? Do they not have to pay the gaming providers for each spin made? I'll open a casino tomorrow if you can tell me how to open one and have no running costs.

There's a clear breach of contract here, the casino haven't done anything wrong.

How would you suggest they could have protected themselves in this situation?

Customer ignored the terms and conditions, used different details to open the account and very quickly knows he might be able to get his deposits back, something I would suggest, isn't common knowledge.

Maybe the question to the op should be, why didn't you read the t&c's, if you know enough to self exclude and that you might get deposits back, surely you know to read the terms and check the license to make sure they aren't linked to a casino you can't join .

Yeah, and of course all casinos list all their co-licensees in their terms, don't they?

In this case they now do though:

20.3. Our self-exclusion facility involves a joint commitment between Paddy Power and you. We will take reasonable steps to prevent you re-opening your Account or opening a new Account but you must not attempt to re-open your Account or to try and open new Accounts. You agree that: (i) if you hold accounts with both Paddy Power and Betfair and have self-excluded from an account on either site, you will not access any account which you hold on the other site (and we reserve the right to prevent you from attempting to access such other site) and (ii) if you hold an account with either Paddy Power or Betfair and have self-excluded from either site, you will not attempt to register an account with the other site during your period of self-exclusion (and we reserve the right to prevent you from registering an account with such other site). We shall not be liable for any losses you or any third party may suffer if you circumvent our self-exclusion procedures and continue to use our Services or if you continue to gamble with any third party. You will inform us as soon as you become aware of any errors in respect your self-exclusion or of any player protection mechanisms we make available to you. If you do not inform us when you become aware of such errors, then we shall not be liable for any losses which you may suffer.

20.4. Self-excluding from Paddy Power will not affect your marketing preferences with third parties, including with advertising websites or other third party affiliates. We strongly recommend that you also contact such third parties and opt out from receiving any gambling related communications from them.

In this case the whole argument about winning or losing is irrelevant, whatever the player's intentions as the UKGC is specific in non-acceptance of bets and voiding them. Whether spotted at sign-up, during play, after play or withdrawal attempt the outcome should be just that - void. I still maintain it's a pointless exercise depositing knowing you're going to be flagged when you win or withdraw so ultimately won't gain anything, just to get deposits back. People's e-mails, phone numbers and addresses do change from time to time, different details is in no way definitively indicative of intent to defraud or play where they shouldn't be playing.

 

[colinsunderland]

Yeah, and of course all casinos list all their co-licensees in their terms, don't they?

In this case they now do though:

20.3. Our self-exclusion facility involves a joint commitment between Paddy Power and you. We will take reasonable steps to prevent you re-opening your Account or opening a new Account but you must not attempt to re-open your Account or to try and open new Accounts. You agree that: (i) if you hold accounts with both Paddy Power and Betfair and have self-excluded from an account on either site, you will not access any account which you hold on the other site (and we reserve the right to prevent you from attempting to access such other site) and (ii) if you hold an account with either Paddy Power or Betfair and have self-excluded from either site, you will not attempt to register an account with the other site during your period of self-exclusion (and we reserve the right to prevent you from registering an account with such other site). We shall not be liable for any losses you or any third party may suffer if you circumvent our self-exclusion procedures and continue to use our Services or if you continue to gamble with any third party. You will inform us as soon as you become aware of any errors in respect your self-exclusion or of any player protection mechanisms we make available to you. If you do not inform us when you become aware of such errors, then we shall not be liable for any losses which you may suffer.

20.4. Self-excluding from Paddy Power will not affect your marketing preferences with third parties, including with advertising websites or other third party affiliates. We strongly recommend that you also contact such third parties and opt out from receiving any gambling related communications from them.

In this case the whole argument about winning or losing is irrelevant, whatever the player's intentions as the UKGC is specific in non-acceptance of bets and voiding them. Whether spotted at sign-up, during play, after play or withdrawal attempt the outcome should be just that - void. I still maintain it's a pointless exercise depositing knowing you're going to be flagged when you win or withdraw so ultimately won't gain anything, just to get deposits back. People's e-mails, phone numbers and addresses do change from time to time, different details is in no way definitively indicative of intent to defraud or play where they shouldn't be playing.

Yes exactly, and if they didn't list other ones on the same license then I would say they should be refunded, like the recent LeoVegas thread. But PP/BF do clearly state they are linked more than once throughout the terms, and it isn't even hidden.
As far as I know the UKGC don't actually go as far as saying a player should be refunded do they?

 

[colinsunderland]

Yes in all fairness I didn't read the terms and Condituons I just wanted to play and if I did I would've maybe realised that they were connected but I have been doin loads reading about this and that's why I knew I should ask for the deposit 2 be returned I didn't no this before I played. All I'm stating is that this casino shouldve made the correct checks and not let me open the account in the 1st place because let's face it now if I did win and asked to withdraw I would r have got the winnings would I ? Somethin I obv didn't no at the time or I wouodnt have deposited at all So my question is if I won wouod they keep the winnings and return the deposit only .. I'm guessing after reading other people's posts that's what they do do I was def gonna lose either way which I think is unfair.

ok, so serious question. What automatic checks would you suggest they carry out before allowing any deposit, that would have caught & blocked you making the account?

 

[pinnit2014]

Yes exactly, and if they didn't list other ones on the same license then I would say they should be refunded, like the recent LeoVegas thread. But PP/BF do clearly state they are linked more than once throughout the terms, and it isn't even hidden.
As far as I know the UKGC don't actually go as far as saying a player should be refunded do they?

I don't think they do - it's certainly not explicitly stated in the social responsibility section etc. There was something, and I think Harry mentioned it before, whereby reference was made to resetting the account as if a bet never took place (ie. refunding) but i can't see it anywhere unless it was part of a consultation etc.

Their recent rulings would seem to say they think that's what should happen but yeah, can see diddly squat.

 

[ed skull murphy]

Yes in all fairness I didn't read the terms and Condituons I just wanted to play and if I did I would've maybe realised that they were connected but I have been doin loads reading about this and that's why I knew I should ask for the deposit 2 be returned I didn't no this before I played. All I'm stating is that this casino shouldve made the correct checks and not let me open the account in the 1st place because let's face it now if I did win and asked to withdraw I would r have got the winnings would I ? Somethin I obv didn't no at the time or I wouodnt have deposited at all So my question is if I won wouod they keep the winnings and return the deposit only .. I'm guessing after reading other people's posts that's what they do do I was def gonna lose either way which I think is unfair.

If you click on the 'Gambling Commission' logo at the foot of the page of any new casino you sign up with, it usually (but not always) brings up the UKGC license of that casino, which contains a list of casinos that operate under the same license. Always worth checking out if you have excluded from any sites.

 

[dunover]

Yes exactly, and if they didn't list other ones on the same license then I would say they should be refunded, like the recent LeoVegas thread. But PP/BF do clearly state they are linked more than once throughout the terms, and it isn't even hidden.
As far as I know the UKGC don't actually go as far as saying a player should be refunded do they?

No, but they use the word 'void' which clearly infers they should be - can you think of any other industry where a 'void' transaction would not be automatically refunded, or consumer laws would not insist on it, unless it's a non-refundable down payment or booking made under specific terms?

 

[haircut101]

Sorry to post this here as well in my own thread but I didn't have any responses there and it seems pretty similar and wondered if someone here could maybe help me out.
As you can see, I did let them know and I did use all my own same details - nothing at all stopped me from depositing. I still haven't heard anything back from them and the PP CS guys seem particularly frosty. I have bad anxiety in general and this I have to say is giving me a bad dose. I just can't believe it can be right or fair.
My thread below:
Long story short. Maybe had closed an account with Paddy Power MANY MOONS ago, so many moons ago that I'm even sure I did or how I went about it (SE, normal closure, temporary, what my email address was, anything) - long before they merged with Betfair, all that jazz. Either way, tested the water by opening a new one figuring I'd be stopped from doing so if it had been an SE. Used all the same personal details so obviously no deliberate circumvention. Nothing happened so I figured everything was cool and made two deposits over the course of the evening totalling £1000. I am a high roller so this isn't unusual. I was happily playing away at Rubiks Riches at £5 per spin and after a couple of hours, I had about £400+ left when suddenly my account was locked just as I hit a bonus round that was about to start. I was asked to contact CS.
A frosty CS operative advised that it was just for verification docs so I provided everything there and then.
Much to my disappointment, I wasn't able to continue my play straight away because the docs take 72 hours to verify....VERY annoying given I was about to start a much-awaited bonus game I wasn't confident the game was going to wait for me.
Anyway, whilst I was there and because it struck me as odd to be locked out for verification docs, I thought I would mention the possible closure of a very old account years ago with Paddy Power. I asked if she would possibly be able to check and what would happen if so, figuring worst case scenario if I had an old/SE account I would get deposits back as that had happened to me before at SuperLenny.
She said she would pass that to security. She was very frosty and said if this turned out to be the case, no deposits would be returned, my account would just be closed and my deposits kept. I said how could this possibly be fair, as obviously no winnings would be paid out, so I would be disadvantaged either way? How could I be paying for gambling transaction with no chance to possibly win? She sent me some T&C blurb but I hadn't breached it at all... it mentioned circumvention - which I hadn't - all my details were the same, something about their end of protecting me from reopening an account, well nothing seemed to be in place their end - nothing had flagged up to stop me joining, and I had also mentioned it to CS MYSELF when I still had money in my account. She was very rude and had nothing helpful to say. I just can't believe this may be the outcome?

1. They get to just keep my £1000 when I couldn't possibly have won anything either way?
2. My honest mistake for joining up again for an account with PP many moons ago when nothing stopped me from re-joining?
3. Aren't they meant to give my deposit back?
4. Can I chargeback on account of this not being a valid transaction e.g how could I pay for a gambling transaction I could never win on?
5. Was I in breach of their rules when I told them myself about my possible past closure? I used all my same personal details?

So sorry for broken-recordness here, any help or guidance on how to approach this is so appreciated, I assure you I am not trying to be some sort of dick or swerve the rules, it was all the adverts for PP during the world cup made me think about playing there and it could well be 10 years ago that I had an account and really did assume that it would have stopped me making a new one if there was an issue.

 

[MaltesePlayer]

As I’ve told the previous post, unfortunately the waters have changed and so has their logic.

Your best bet is to fight it through IBAS and hope they haven’t turned into a T&C follower only and still use reason.

Best of luck.

 

[haircut101]

Yeah, may duly have to go the IBAS route .. or the Peter Jackson route? Do PP have a rep here, are they responsive?

 

[haircut101]

I still don't understand how I've breached the T&C as I used all my same personal details and I spoke to CS about my possible old account myself when I became aware, isn't that what they ask of you?

 

[adamjames]

I would assume they'll just refund your deposits...

 

[haircut101]

I would assume they'll just refund your deposits...

I hope so. They just bluntly stated not when I asked this to CS.